Optimizing a soulbow

17 posts / 0 new
Last post
I'm working on a soulbow for an eberron campaign. Currently level 6. Books available: All 3.5, but I need to be very wary about pulling from campaign-specific stuff outside eberron(Like FR).

Kalashtar Monk 2/Soulknife 3/Soulbow 1

Variants used: Soulknife variants, Flowing Blade

The DM is fairly kind to soulknives, and here some house rules he's come up with for them. First, anything and everything that uses the word mindblade stacks with mindarrows, including enhancement bonuses(including stuff like psychokinetic) from the SK class. Flowing Blade can be used instead of Monastic Training for Tashalatora. I can flurry in addition to rapidshot with Mind Arrows. I cannot use TWF with Mind Arrows. 1 Flaw, Noncombatant.

Build so far:

Level Class BAB Feats Bonus Feats<br /> <br /> 1 Soulknife 1 0 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot(Flaw) Hidden Talent[Inertial Armor], Weapon Focus[Mindblade]<br /> 2 Soulknife 2 1 <br /> 3 Monk 1 1 Practiced Mindblade Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist<br /> 4 Monk 2 2 Flowing Blade<br /> 5 Soulknife 3 3 Soulblade Warrior<br /> 6 Soulbow 1 3 Zen Archery Rapid Shot<br /> 7 Soulbow 2 4<br /> 8 Soulbow 3 5 [i]Open[/i] <br /> 9 Soulbow 4 6 Tashalatora(Soulbow)<br /> 10 Soulbow 5 6 Manyshot<br /> 11 Soulbow 6 7<br /> 12 Soulbow 7 8 Stunning Master Improved Rapidshot<br /> 13 Soulbow 8 9<br /> 14 Soulbow 9 9 [i]Open[/i]<br /> 15 Soulbow 10 10 [i]Open[/i]

The build up to 6 is pretty much set in stone, though if something REALLY should be changed, I'll look into it.

What I'm looking for is feat suggestions for the open feats, and a class for the final levels. Because of the stacking of bonuses, I'm thinking I take a level of Soulknife and grab another enhancement bonus(Which would net me a +5 bow with a +4 bonus ability at level 16). What should those last 4 levels be then? Or should I head into Warmind at level 15? If I do Warmind, though, should I be going for Greater Manyshot and the Psionic Shot line of feats, allowing me to refocus by constantly manifesting Hustle, and firing off lots of manyshots, all buffed by psionic shot?
i would suggest this:

Monk 3/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow 8/ Warmind 7

feats:
Monastic Training(Soulbow)
Tashalatora(Soulbow)
Flowing Blade ..... also allows you to Flurry with Mind Arrows(look at the Soulbow Class ability, to see why)

everything else look good except... i would remove :

Stunning Fist
Stunning Master


replace with:

Combat Reflexes
Robilars Gambit@ 18th lvl

and add Practiced Manifester(Warmind) also

:D
I have Tashalatora in my build at level 9 already - I don't need Monastic Training for it, as my DM ruled that Flowing Blade works as a pre-req instead.

Why do you go Monk 3? With the Mind's Eye variant to soulknife, there is a reason for me to go soulknife 3 to net the feat. What does Monk 3 offer over Soulknife 3? The only reason I see you taking is it is to net Greater Flurry, along with 16 BAB. Is that last iterative attack that important(I figured that in most cases the final attack wouldn't be hitting anyway). I figured having that last feat/+1 to abilities(which allows me to get stuff like splitting) is better than 16 BAB.

Also, I don't get the point of Combat Reflexes/Robiliar's Gambit. Don't I not want to get hit in the first place, by being sufficiently far away? Besides, with a dex around 12 or 14, I don't have the AOO's to pull off a lot of Gambit attacks. I don't get why this is superior to being able to use ranged stunning fists, albeit a reduced amount of them per day.

Also, I take it that you too believe warmind the best way to finish up this build then? I just couldn't figure out any real solid finisher's to this build. Good point about the Practiced Manifister for Warmind.
I think an extra attack at Full BAB (Greater Flurry), and the last iterative are very important. You can easily boost your attack bonus high enough that it hits. I assume this isn't a solo campaign, there will (most likely) be buffs. Not to mention the gloves in MIC that boost your mindblade, which for you, boost the mind arrows too.

Don't forget to add the feat Woodland Archer and the Accurate weapon enhancement to your mind arrows. You won't mind rolling badly when you get a +6 to hit on your following rolls.

I don't feel like Warmind does much besides boost your BAB when you're only getting 37 PP, 4 powers known highest being 3rd level. Unless of course you're playing a Kalashtar (bonus PP).

Other class options for your build include:

Warblade - 1. Iron Heart Surge 2. White Raven Tactics 3. Sudden Leap 1. Blood in the Water
Shiba Protector 1 - WIS to hit/damage at level 1.
Deepwood Sniper 2 - For a crit. range of (19-20)X4
I am a kalashtar(all the fun monk/soulknife stuff are kalashtar only). My reasoning for choosing Warmind is that A. It gives manifesting based off of Wisdom. B. Is a full BAB class C. Fits somewhat thematically. I'm definitely open to other suggestions. The Deepwood Sniper dip seems interesting, though I'll have to ask my DM to see if WF(Mindblade) will let me get into the class.

Shiba Protector sounds like an interesting dip - I don't actually have OA, so I'll need to nab it from someone to see it in greater detail. That being said, OA being another campaign setting(as far as I understand) makes me shy away from using it. I'm trying to stick to Eberron+non-specific material. Of course, wisdom again to damage and hit seems really amazing.

How do the gloves from the MIC function with Mind Arrows? Since there are no rulings in which hand I manifest the arrows in, what happens if I wear two of the gloves? Can I get +6 worth of abilities, or do I have to choose 1 when I create my arrows(thus allowing me to basically carry two different +3 abilities and choose one on the fly).

That being said, my current level 6 build is Monk2/SK3/SB 1. I'd really like to not change that, as it means rearranging my feats around(We start at 6, at my DM has given me a very, very generous ruling with how Practiced Mindblade and Soulblade Warrior stack - first practiced takes effect, goes up to a max of HD, then soulblade warrior takes effect, resulting in me having the mindblade of a level 8 SK at level 6, which gives me a +2 bow with a +1 ability)

Warblade is also another interesting dip later, for Blood in the Water. If I can nab splitting that will be far better.

16(BAB)+5(Enh)+12(Wis)+1(Weapon Focus)+5(Misc Buffs). That only results in ~40. That gives me +25 to hit with that last iterative attack, and AC 35-40 is standard for CR 20. I can see that last iterative being useful, but wouldn't being able to get splitting on my bow(via Soulbow 10) be far better than that last iterative attack?

Of course, if I can't get splitting, the last iterative is obviously more important.
I am a kalashtar(all the fun monk/soulknife stuff are kalashtar only). My reasoning for choosing Warmind is that A. It gives manifesting based off of Wisdom. B. Is a full BAB class C. Fits somewhat thematically. I'm definitely open to other suggestions. The Deepwood Sniper dip seems interesting, though I'll have to ask my DM to see if WF(Mindblade) will let me get into the class.

I love Warmind, don't get me wrong. I just think that if you are choosing it for the casting, Ardent may be a better choice. But if you are choosing it for the BAB there may be better choices of what to use.

How do the gloves from the MIC function with Mind Arrows? Since there are no rulings in which hand I manifest the arrows in, what happens if I wear two of the gloves? Can I get +6 worth of abilities, or do I have to choose 1 when I create my arrows(thus allowing me to basically carry two different +3 abilities and choose one on the fly).

The wearing of two gloves does give a benefit if you're Two Weapon Fighting and they count separately, which you're unable to do... Too Bad. At least you don't have to spend money on two gloves.
Honestly, I'm just looking for the best bet on the last 4-5 levels. Currently, I figure I'm not going to be able to get 16 BAB, because splitting is probably more important. I need Soulbow 10 to get splitting, so that doesn't leave me enough room to get 16 BAB.

So I could go Soulknife 1/PrC 4, as that 4th level of soulbow will bump my mindblade enhancement up to +2 with a +2 ability, so I can nab an additional +2 ability, making a Soulknife 4/Monk 2/Soulbow 10 have a +5 bow with +3 to spend on Soulbow abilities and +2 to spend on soulknife abilities(can't apply melee specific abilities).

That's a house rule though, normally it would just be a +5 with a +3 ability, but in either case it lets me get splitting.

So what I'm wondering what would be the best bet. I'm thinking Soulknife 1/Deepwood Sniper 2/Full BAB 2 end up with 15 BAB, +5 Splitting Force Mind Arrows, with 3 additional attacks at my highest BAB from Flurry/Rapid Shot.
Honestly, I'm just looking for the best bet on the last 4-5 levels. Currently, I figure I'm not going to be able to get 16 BAB, because splitting is probably more important. I need Soulbow 10 to get splitting, so that doesn't leave me enough room to get 16 BAB.

You should be able get Bab 16+ do to the odd nature of the Mindarrow class Feature. If you read the fourth paragraph of the Mindarrow description you will note that the enchancement bonus to attack from your Mindarrow counts as a BAB bonus for soulknife as well. So even with your proposed build you end up with 5(soulknife) + 1(monk) + 7(Soulbow) + 2(Deepwood Sniper) + 1(Full BAB class) = 16

Now feel free to ignore this if there is a customer service response that says the text is in error, or your dm thinks so. There is nothing in the Faq or Errata that says it is an error so by RAW it works.
By RAW, it makes absolutely no sense. There are no rules for how to treat an enhancement bonus to BAB. That statement is just plain illogical.
The Exact Quote from PG 36 of Complete Psionics 4th Paragraph of the Mindarrow description is "Your Mind Arrows improve as you gain higher levels at 3rd level, a mind arrow gains an +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls and at 7th level the bonus improves to +2. These bonuses stack with previous enhancment bonuses gained earlier for your soulknife class levels. Likewise, these enhancement bonuses also improve your soulknife base attack bonus." now I know this is a little odd and one I first read it I thought it was an Error but as stated in my previous post it was never corrected in the Faq or by Errata and I have never seen a Customer service response to say it is incorrect so unless you house-rule otherwise the Enhancement bonus for your Mindarrow improve your Bab. Which is what I was attempting to point out that it is a little weird but it is something to remember.
It was never corrected by errata or FAQ because theres no erratta for CP - in fact, CP is in many ways erratta for XPH. That statement implies that the soulknife enhancement bonuses to mindblade also increase the SK BAB(By the use of the 'Likewise'). Wizards put out CP and then ignored any and all problems with it. The book has a tremendous amount of grammatical and logical errors in it, and this is just one more of them.

Really, it makes no sense. Nowhere else in the game do enhancement bonuses increase BAB, and the statement implies that such an occurence happens in the SK base class, which it doesn't. If erratta had come out for CP, and it stayed in, then yes, I would accept it, but as it stands, its a statement that makes no sense in the context its given, and in a book riddled with errors its far harder to assume to it functions like it seems to function(To be fair, you can't increase BAB in anyway other than levels, so to say something increases BAB doesn't make any sense), rather than assume yet another failing of the author's of the book.
I understand it is odd and somewhat illogical hence the second part of my original post in which I stated feel free to ignore the comment.

As far as a rules precedent I see this as an exception to the rule granted by a Class Feature which is something you see in other classes.

I personally don't see it as a game breaking feature all it does is help the Soulbow better fill its party role. From experience I have had some DM's rule that it is an error and some have said it is okay.

So that's my piece I'm done.
so i have a 6th level ranger about to turn 7th, archery specialty
human

if i were to do the ranger, soulbow, Anointed Knight, Sword of the Arcane Order feat (Champions of Valor), warblade, eternal blade, possibly with rogue and or barbarian, how would you build it?

or would you recommend some other path for me, to enhance to the best of my ability?

Strength : 14 (+2) 
Dexterity : 18 (+4) 
Constitution : 10 (+0) 
Intelligence : 10 (+0) 
Wisdom : 12 (+1) 
Charisma : 10 (+0)

favored enemy human and giant
animal companion winter wolf

+1 magical comp bow+2

looking for and taking any optimized build advice, thank you 
Holy balls! What's with all this necrospamming?
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
necrospamming was asking a question about my build?
wow
thanks 
Necrospamming is raising a several year old thread to ask a question unrelated to the thread.

Especially, since, you know, there's a very nice "create thread" button at the top of the forum page. 
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
sorry i thought the optimized soulbow was related to my question, but i have taken your advice and created a new thread.
thank you