The Iron Siege

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I am the third one to present this to a bunch keen players. After Selah's and Witch's amazing work with the challenge I was given the honour to continue from where they left. Without further ado, I am here to pose your a challenge, COers.

You are to kill Lord Dispater. Sounds easy, eh? What if I say you have to kill Dispater as Dicefreaks represent him here and you will have to do it in Dis? For more information check the newest Iron Siege Q&A and info thread.

The exact rules are to located in this spoiler:
Rules
You use are to use Dicefreaks' deity creation rules. They can be found from the 9th book of Gates of Hell. I suggest you to read them through. You have a pool of 18 divine ranks from which to draw and you can split them as you wish. It is allowed to have a single DvR 18 deity, two DvR 9 deities, etc.

You will use PC wealth appropriate to your level. Deities' HD caps at 70, normal mortals are limited to 40 HD, but creatures such as dragons and undead can go as high as 100 HD. You also have 5 level worth of LA at your disposal, it can be used for crafting as such if you don't want to use it. If you don't get something, then ask.

As to sources: you are allowed to use any of the following:

* The SRD
* Complete Series
* Libris Mortis
* PHB2
* Heroes of Horror
* Sandstorm
* Frostburn
* Requests are not forbidden.

Aside from that, you are good to go, as long as you abide by the Dicefreaks statistics caps (to which Dispater and his minions are held as well). For the physical scores, this is a maximum of 70. For the mental scores, this is a maximum of 55. For levels, this can be found in the appendix.


You think you can take?

Witch's original Iron Siege at the Epic boards, includes a nice FAQ.
From this page on I have answered questions.
New Iron Siege Q&A and info thread.


The Great Graveyard, Iron Siege attempt thread

FAQ and even more info

Iron Siege FAQ by _Darhath_. Cheers for him.

The first playtest.
Entertainment was brought to the table by Bauglir and his flaming deity Trogdor!

Credits: Special thanks to Commx and _Darhath_ for combining their encyclopedias. Kudos to Witch and Selah for their help, creating the guidelines for this and not killing me for pestering them like hell.
So are they going to let you get to him now? I read that thread earlier on, and it got a bit tedious.
So are they going to let you get to him now? I read that thread earlier on, and it got a bit tedious.

I used to read Witch's thread and wonder about some things too. When I got in charge of that, I talked about some details and strategies with both of the former DMs, Witch and Selah, and now I actually know why it was difficult to get to the Tower. Another problem to be solved by the challengers.

There has been some arguments about it, but if I were to give this one a try, I would try to lure Dispater out of his safe haven. That will not be easy, but it is possible. Smartest way to go is to somehow make him believe that the Iron Tower has become unsafe for him, that'd make him teleport out fast as lightning.

To give you a short answer to your question: It depends. If someone finds a way to get to the Tower, then I will allow it. There were some questionable ruling before and I am ready to reconsider everything Witch has ruled.
My initial thought is to try to get an epic level factotum. You'd have to clear Dungeonscape and the Font of Inspiration feat from the Web enhancement, but I think he would have a chance.
Is there an official epic progression for Factotum? I see no problem with Factotum, Font of Inspiration is a go, but someone would need to present me a decent epic Factotum. Custom made is okay.
You could always do just the 20 levels of Factotum and then go with other classes on top. Anything that could make use of multiple standard actions should work fine.

20 levels of Factotum should make breaking and entering a breeze. At which point you just need to build something on top that can take its tons of standard actions and turn them into a dead Dis.

On a separate non-factotum note, relatively his touch AC is rather low, and his Dex is the lowest of his scores. A properly metamagic'd ray of clumsiness may be able to disable him.
You could always do just the 20 levels of Factotum and then go with other classes on top. Anything that could make use of multiple standard actions should work fine.

I bet doing an epic progression for Factotums is not that difficult either...

20 levels of Factotum should make breaking and entering a breeze. At which point you just need to build something on top that can take its tons of standard actions and turn them into a dead Dis.

Well... no. Are you familiar with the original Iron Siege? DvR 18 Demilich simply got drowned in holy water, greater deity Druid simply surrendered and left... Nothing is going to make breaking and entering a breeze.

On a separate non-factotum note, relatively his touch AC is rather low, and his Dex is the lowest of his scores. A properly metamagic'd ray of clumsiness may be able to disable him.

Dispater's touch AC or yours? If Dispater's, then I might want to remind you that you will actually have to find him and after that hope he is not immune to that or have dozens of contingencies against it.

If yours... all I can say is that it is going to be the least of your troubles.
So are they going to let you get to him now? I read that thread earlier on, and it got a bit tedious.

It really did get ridiculous... there were a lot of build that should have one except they kept coming up with things on the fly. It was really uncool.
Especially with the amount of effort to do a serious epic build. Personally I tend to :embarrass Yawn and drift off whenever anyone starts talking about playing as a god or even epic really, cause I kinda wonder if it's anything more that playing D&D with all numbers X100 or whatever....
Am I mistaken about this?
I'll watch for a bit though Tshern seems pretty cool so you know why not...
M.
Edit i remember the specific time that I started hating Witch... In the Char ops thread right after someone tried to use lords of madness Darkstalker feat which really bypassed a lot of the bs in that dungeon...him banning it seemed I don't know seem really janky at the time I guess that feat honestly kinda wrecks Dispater...
no I actually I think it may have been even before that...hmm..
It really did get ridiculous... there were a lot of build that should have one except they kept coming up with things on the fly. It was really uncool.

Not quite true. There might have been an exception or two, but at the moment I cannot come up with anything that was invented on the fly to stop the challengers. What Dispater did there is written all over his entry in Gates of Hell. However, drowning the demilich did suffer from very bad narration, the grid should've had smaller holes...

Edit i remember the specific time that I started hating Witch... right after someone tried to use lords of madness Darkstalker feat which really bypassed a lot of the bs in that dungeon...him banning it seemed I don't know seem really janky at the time I guess that feat honestly kinda wrecks Dispater...

That feat is one of the things I am reconsidering. Well, not actually reconsidering as much as allowing.
Nevermind.
Let me know what you decide.
M.
I don't get it.
I'm not entirely familiar with epic progression, and don't want to learn, really, but a start:
Rogue with Crippling Strike and lots of attacks, and a Abjuration Master Specialist w/ the L10 ability. Casts AMF on the Rogue, who proceeds to reduce Dis's Str from 35 to zero, then keeps Coup'ing him until he drops to 0 hp. Can't use his Iron Curtain ability, or any of his or his weapon's Su or Sp abilities. Ex abilities are still a pain; just have to think ahead...
Well, here you face a variety of problems. Like people with divine ranks, beings with cosmic ranks, like Dicefreaks' Dispater, are immune to Antimagic fields. Even without that little ability pestering your build, you would actually have to find Dispater and have him encounter you.

Midnight: Darkstalker is in, if that's what you are asking...
Well, here you face a variety of problems. Like people with divine ranks, beings with cosmic ranks, like Dicefreaks' Dispater, are immune to Antimagic fields. Even without that little ability pestering your build, you would actually have to find Dispater and have him encounter you.

I did not know! I don't encounter gods in my games very often (ever).
Hi, Tshern ! Good luck DMing the challenge.

I'd be curious to know your answer to the following posts :
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14468968&postcount=1948
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14472328&postcount=1951
(Note that Witch gave an answer, but I found it underwhelming.)

I don't actually intend to participate, but I have an academic interest in it. My current opinion is : Time Travel breaks D&D on a Pun-Pun scale.

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't see the point of any technique since Merorem seems to be a source of ultimate DM Ex Machina.
Player : I try X.
DM : it could have worked, but Merorem steps back in time, and warns Dispater. Dispater creates an epic spell that foils X, or applies X to your deity. You lose.

I am not going to metagame against deities, so you will see nothing specifically created against them. Additionally, if you kill Merorem in the 'normal' time stream, I will not have him pop up back from another timeline.

If that didn't answer your questions, then please point out your dilemma more specifically and I try to elaborate on it better.

I did not know! I don't encounter gods in my games very often (ever).

Hehe, neither do I, but I have been forced to do some background research for this.
My point is that you can't kill Merorem (nor Dispater by extension) without equal mastery over time - which I think can only be granted by DM fiat, since the canon already enumerates the 2 pairs of big time masters.

If you were to hypothetically kill Merorem, he would have realized his death earlier by stepping into the future, learned about it (by himself or via Dispater, Asmodeus, whoever) then come up with a way to foil it.
After all, he is smart, has infinite time and extraordinary resources available. He is always prepared.

(I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, since this is close to a time paradox, but hopefully you'll understand.)

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
I realize what you are getting at and I realize the paradox there. Personally I do hate time travel beyond words, I really do. However, making a more powerful master of time is entirely viable even though I do not aim to use the strategies you presented. However, in theory I agree with you.
I'm glad we understand and agree with each other. It's good to know the contestants only have to deal with all of Merorem's and Dispater's other powers. ;)

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
First off, thanks a bunch for reviving this challenge. It was quite fun to read the attempts thread, until things slowed way down in the end...

Also, as far as I know, there were still a bunch of challengers waiting with almost full builds. I was really rooting for a couple of em'. Will they get dibs?

Anyway, good luck.
Especially with the amount of effort to do a serious epic build. Personally I tend to :embarrass Yawn and drift off whenever anyone starts talking about playing as a god or even epic really, cause I kinda wonder if it's anything more that playing D&D with all numbers X100 or whatever....
Am I mistaken about this?

Well, kind of. It can be DnD with just bigger numbers, but there are elements there that aren't accessible at lower level.

Like, having Time Stop & MDJ as a quickened SLA. My tactic involved traveling in a TK sphere (which blocks disjunction, even as it goes down), having a prepared action to put it back up when it goes down, and hitting D with NI force missile damage when encountered. I never did play the challenge, as I only got about half the way through designing a high-level deity.

Basically, you need to think of PERFECT attacks and defences. maybe a Psion with an insane speed, a huge amount of PP and Timeless Body...

Ooh, yeah. Time Regression + Hypercognition... if we can negate the XP cost for Time Regression.

I'd still like the Crusader's ability to take 11 on any roll, but that's easily accessible with just two or three levels ( not sure when the 2nd stance is gained. )
[sarcasm]Oh boy, this is back.[/sarcasm]

I some ways I'm glad that to see this back with a more resonable DM. In others...
The Iron Siege in an exercise in futility.

And that comes from the contests original DM.

As for Memorem "DM Ex Machina" Darkwind:http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b
The main problem I had with the competition was that there's a "no broken characters allowed" rule in place, and to accomplish the challenge your character pretty much *has* to be broken.
The main problem I had with the competition was that there's a "no broken characters allowed" rule in place, and to accomplish the challenge your character pretty much *has* to be broken.

That again depends on how you see it. The clause that disallowed broken characters was there to deal with theoretical excercises like Pun-Pun. If you were to fight the Iron Siege with characters like that, it would hardly be a challenge now would it?

Allarian: Selah can say anything he wants. I now share some of his knowledge, my normal wits and CO-background to put against the challengers and I still am sure someone can win this. You just need to come up with something more original than the other contestants. My number one option would be cheating Dispater out of his Tower.

Also, keep in mind that no-one is forcing anyone to undertake this gauntlet. It has been said before and I say it again, this is difficult as, no pun intended, hell. But wasn't there are thread about taking down Faerunian gods at level 20 floating on these boards some months ago?

I'd still like the Crusader's ability to take 11 on any roll, but that's easily accessible with just two or three levels ( not sure when the 2nd stance is gained. )

At level 2. Keep in mind that it can only be used once a round.
I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this, as you're much more sane than Witch was. What a mess it was when all the stupid rulings started to come out.
I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this, as you're much more sane than Witch was. What a mess it was when all the stupid rulings started to come out.

I certainly hope I won't disappoint anyone. However, as Witch said, there are going to be moments when players and casual readers will have no idea what happened and that is not because of cheating... My confidant happened change his base of operations by a continent, so I will probably have to get a new player who is going to get informed about all my actions and he views them for legality. Finding someone for that should not be a major problem.
Hmm... would beating Dispater at his own game (or changing his alignment to good) count as winning?

I'm thinking of a Kefka-themed build, but I'd need to use the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and the DMG2 for it.


What about the item familiar rules? They're in the SRD, but are sorta varienty.


Also, how far is the starting point from his tower?
This looks like fun. Question #1: How are divine ranks derived in your world? :D
Did you ever figure out if pun pun could beat this? If he can't, is the mortiverse a suitable candidate?
Okay, I came off as much more negative then I intended, that post was rushed. I personally think that you will do better running this then Witch ever did, since he actually seemed to enjoy seeing people lose. I just can't shake that a lot of the previous thread (and I did read nearly all of it) was dedicated to "That won't work!" "Why?" "I can't tell you/I don't like it." I hope that that works out better this time around.

Some Questions:

Is ToB allowed this time?

I don't no anything much about dicefreaks so this may be stupid but: The project that was working on Demons and the Abyss had just started by the time that the last challenge was wraping up. What is the current status? Specifically what are the rule for Demonic Ravages? (Who can aquire them? How are they aquired? ect.) I remember a lot of questions about those in the last thread.

What are the HD limits? For example the last thread established a numger of baselines: Mortal (Human, Orc) 50 HD, Outsider 70 HD, Dragon 100 HD. I want to make sure that these are the same. Also how would those limits interact with templates that change type?

Leading directly to my next question: What do You think is reasonable LA for a non-god? Witch would never give a real answer to this.

Now the broadest one yet: What stands from the morass of rulings on the first 70+ page thread?


Thank you for your time and I hope that this turns out well for you. (If badly for Dispater ;))
My entry (still a work in progress, but mostly done)

Ozymandius

The Undying Bull God
Eternal Emporer of the Sands of Time

Half(blue)-Dragon Minotaur Dry Lich (10 dragon HD + 60 class levels +5 LA)
Dragon 10/Barb1/Blackguard5/Frenzied Berzerker4/PsiWar2/Cleric3/Walker in the Waste 10/Cleric+6/Cosmic Descryer 12/Legendary Dreadnought 7

Cleric CL 29 (40 with buffs and items)

Active Spells:
Greater Consumptive Field (Persistent, Maximized)(+20 enh. Str, +10 CL, +80 temp HP, assuming it caps at these)
Mantle of the Icy Soul (instantaneously added Cold subtype)
Greater Spell Immunity (Telekinesis)
Antimagic Field (he is immune to it)
Freedom of Movement
Resonating Resistance (from BoVD, roll twice to beat his SR, take worst roll)

Active Epic Spells (7 Epic spells per day):
Greater Esoteric Aegis (see notes, +40 to Dispel DCs, immune to MDJ, lasts 1 day)
Greater Epic Mage Armor (40 armor bonus for 3 days)
Buffs that give +25 Wis, Cha, Dex and Int (I might use Owl's WIsdom instead for Wis)

Epic Spells known (not approved yet):
Show

Greater Esoteric Aegis (based on GoH Chp2)
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 123
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 11 minutes
Range: Personal
Effect: 10-ft. radius emanation
Duration: 24 hours
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 747,000 gp, 15 days, 29,880 XP (recalculate). Seeds:
ward (DC 14), transform (DC 21). Factors: gain +40
bonus on DC to avoid being dispelled (ad hoc +80),
make spell effect tenacious (as per the feat) (ad hoc +10),
end dispel checks that fail to dispel this spell automatically
(ad hoc +4), ward against mage’s disjunction (+16).
Mitigating factors: change range from touch to personal
(-2), increase casting time by 10 min (-20)
The caster calls upon the very fabric of magic to fashion
a ward to protect his own working of the Word from
those that would tear it down. A shimmering, dusky
globe surrounds the caster, intercepting any attempts to
end his spells by means of dispel magic, or similar spells
and epic spells, and providing a +40 bonus on the DC
against which the dispel attempt must succeed. Any dispel
attempt which succeeds can then proceed as normal,
but esoteric aegis works as if under the effects of the
Tenacious Magic feat, and thus cannot be dispelled, only
suppressed for 1d4 rounds. Dispel attempts that fail are
not entitled to checks against lesser spells within the area
of effect (this differs from the usual procedure of area
dispel magic attempts). Furthermore, mage’s disjunction
is warded against in its entirety.

Fortify Wisdom (also knows Dex, Int, and Cha versions)
Spellcraft DC 31
Fortify Seed: 17
Factors: Increase attribute by +24 (+48), duration x5 (100 hours)(+10), casting time increased by 10 min (-20).
Caster gains +25 ehn. to Wisdom for 100 hours

Greater Epic Mage Armor
Conjuration (Creation) [Force]
Spellcraft DC: 70
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 72 hours (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
To Develop: 630,000 gp; 13 days; 25,200 XP. Seed:
armor (DC 14). Factors: +36 additional armor bonus
(+72), increase duration by 200% (+4). Mitigating Factor:
increase casting time by 9 minutes (-18), change
target to personal (-2).
Greater epic mage armor works as per epic mage
armor, except that it grants a +40 armor bonus to Armor
Class, and lasts for 3 days.

Perfect Mindblank
?
All attempts to use any form of scrying and/or divination on you or an item in your possession fail automatically. This includes the Salient Divine Abilities of deities which produce scrying or divination effects, but not their Portfolio Sense. You detect all scrying and divination attempts that target you or an item in your possession. This includes attempts to scry on you in the present, past, and future. You also get a brief glimpse of the being that attempted the scrying/divination.


Other spells I'd like to use, but haven't gotten approval for yet: Mindrape and Resonating Resistance from the Book of Vile Darkness.

Ability scores: 238 points, distribute as desired, add +1/4 levels (18) and racial mods (+28 more points)(total 284 points). No physicals higher than 70 (for mediums, can go higher with size increases), or mentals higher than 55.

For large size:
Str 98 (78+20enh)(+44)
Dex 61 (46+25enh)(+25)
Con - (originally 20)
Int 55 (30+25enh)(+22)
Wis 80 (55+25enh)(+35)
Cha 80 (55+25enh)(+35)

Move 80', Fly 240'
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Divine Rank 18
Domains: Thirst, War, Earth, Fire, Time, and Fate
Ethos
Show
Ethos
The fate all warriors is to die. The best that they can hope for is to die gloriously in battle. Then their memories can immortalize them, preserving them long past after their mortal coil has long since decayed into dust.

All things decay. Death and ruin are the inevitable end for all. Time withers away even great mountains. The waste can preserve greatness, though. It burns away impurities, and hides the purified essence in its shifting sands.

Ozymandius exemplifies this: a great warrior whose deeds have been immortalized in tales and legends, and whose body has been purified and preserved by the waste. He calls on other warriors to follow his example, and legions of such undead scions live with him in his pyramid beneath the Sands of Time (a region of Hades).


BAB: 20+25EAB
Attacks: (45bab+18divine+44str+10enh-1size) +116 Reaper, +106 Bite (1d8+22), +106 Gore (1d8+22), +106 2 claws (1d6+44)

Full attack: +116/111/106/101 Reaper (3d6+76, 19-20/x3, always touch attacks), +101 Bite (1d8+22), and +101 Gore (1d8+22)

Divine Might adds +35 damage per hit

On a charge: Full power attack, Shock Trooper to put penalty to AC, Leap Attack increases PA damage to 3x45= +135, for 3d6+211 damage per attack.

Rage + Frenzy adds 10 more to str and an extra attack, for a total charging Leap attack Divine Might routine of:

+123/+123/118/113/108 Reaper (3d6+253)(avg 1317 for all weapon attacks, all vs. Touch AC) and +108 Bite (1d8+174), and +108 Gore (1d8+174), for a total of 1683 average damage. The target has to make a Fort. save DC 77 or be destroyed for every attack that lands (Annihilating Strike).

AC: 196 (10+18divine+33nat+35defl+40armor+25dex+36monk-1size), Touch 119, FF 171

HD 75d12+2625+150+24 (Hit points 3699)

Base Saves: Fort +42, Ref +34, Will +34
(+53 from Cha and DR)
Total Saves: Fort +95, Ref +112, Will +122


Wealth for ECL 60 is 108,600,000!!! What is it for us?

Feats: Improved Initiative (Time domain), Weapon Focus (Greataxe, War Domain), Power Attack (1), Cleave (3), Improved Sunder (6), Great Cleave (9), Destructive Rage (12), Intimidating Rage (15), Heat Endurance (18), Extra Rage (21), Improved Bull Rush (PsiW1), Shock Trooper (PsiW2), Spell Focus: Conjuration (24), Energy Resistance (Sonic) (27), Extra Rage (30), Ruinous Rage (33), Terrifying Rage (36), Divine Might (39), Instantaneous Rage (42), Extend Rage (45), Combat Reflexes (48), Combat Brute (51), Dodge (54), Combat Expertise (57), Karmic Strike (60), Epic Spellcasting (CDesc5), Spell Stowaway (Time Stop) (CDesc10), Improved Critical (Greataxe)(63), Speed of Thought (66), Improved Combat Reflexes (LD5), Psionic Charge (69)

Other feats: Craft Wonderous Item (Retrained away)

Skills, Fiendish Companion, and more equipment to come.

Equipment (under construction): Some artifiact incorporating the function of a Monk's belt, and a Belt of Battle.

The Reaper (not approved yet)

This large headsman's axe is an artifact of great power. Crafted from the thigh bone of a greater deity, it has a +10 enhancement bonus. It overcomes all regeneration and damage reduction as if it were constantly bathed in Trollbane and had the Shadowstriking property, except it works on the first hit. It protects the wielder with a constant Spell Turning effect, and can also grant immunity to one specific spell of up to 9th level, in a fashion similiar to Greater Spell Immunity. Finally, it traps the souls of any it slays (as if it were made of Thinuan). The wielder can communicate with trapped souls telepathically, and free them if he wishes. The wielder can also cast spells or use other powers on trapped souls as long as the abilities target the mind or soul.

SDAs (gets 5 extra per Dice Freaks rules, so 23 total)
Clearsight (Wis 29)
Divine Fire Mastery (Fire Domain)
Divine Earth Mastery (Earth domain)
Divine Fast Healing (fast healing)
Energy Storm (use Negative energy. It gives all benefits of Divine Storm plus does 18 negative energy damage per round, which heals Ozymandius.)
Extra Sense Enhancement (applied to Fire Mastery sense, senses all corporeal creatures within 18 miles)
Irresistable Blows (War domain, attacks with greataxes are touch attacks)
Supreme Initiative (Dex 29, Improved Initiative. Always goes first.)
Annihilating Strike (anyone hit makes Fort save, DC 28+Str_mod, or destroyed)
Battlesense (cannot be surprized, flanked, sneaked, lose Dex, etc; except by higher rank deity)
Divine Dodge (68% miss chance for everything)
Divine Shield
Call Creatures (call up to 18 creatures of his hit dice of one specific kind)
Divine Blast (1d12 per DR + 1d12 per Cha_Mod, 18 mile range, destroys and penetrates Force effects)
Increased Damage Reduction (add 5 and weird material or alignment)
Supreme Damage Reduction (weapon must be forged in a specific way)
Automagic Metamagic (Persistent)
Automagic Metamagic (Quicken)
Automagic Metamagic (Maximize)
Life Drain (Swift action cloud, 10' high x 180' radius, Living creatures must make a Will save or die (DC 20+DR+Cha_mod). If they succeed, they still get 2 negative levels.)
Two custom SDAs
Show
Custom SDAs

Master of Destiny (approved)
Prerequisites: Time and Fate Domains; Clearsight, Battlesense, and Extra Sense Enhancement SDAs, Wisdom 40

The deity can see perfectly into his own future for up to one round per divine rank. He can perfectly forsee the results of his own actions, and the actions of others as they affect him. This means he is able to react to the actions of others up to 18 rounds before they are taken, adjusting his own actions accordingly.

In game terms, this allows him to "redo" his actions for a number of rounds up to his DR. Any creatures able to percieve his new actions can react accordingly, but they have no memory of the "previous" rounds, as they never actually occurred.

Use of this power requires no action on the deity's part. It is automatic, and not even his death can prevent it, as he forsees it and reacts to it before it happens. Nothing can block the deity's ability to see his own fate, including the SDAs of other deities and cosmic entities, and the powers of artifacts. His ability to observe other creature's part in his future may be obscured by appropriate protections against divination effects, however.

This power also automatically extends to the deity's avatars and proxies, as they contain fractions of his own power and essence, but their fates may be obscured by appropriately powerful magic. The deity can also use this ability to forsee the fate of any of his followers, but this requires a swift action to use, and he can only forsee the fate of up to 1 follower per divine rank per use of this ability. Finally, the deity can use this ability on a creature that is not a follower of his, but this requires a standard action and the target can attempt a Will save to resist it. If they succeed, they know they were targetted by some kind of supernatural effect.


Stabilize Timestream SDA (not approved yet)
Prerequisite: Time domain

All time manipulation effects within 100 feet per divine rank of the deity automatically fail. This includes Time Stop, Temporal Acceleration, Time Hop, most of the abilities of phanes, etc. The deity can supress or resume this ability as a free action on his turn.

One more...

Other deific abilities:
Alter Size (Fine to Collossal, with all bonuses and penalties)
Alter Reality (Dice Freaks version): Can produce any spell effect in line with his portfolio. Can add metamagic, but this delays use of Alter Reality for 1 round per extra spell slot level normally added.
Domain Powers: All useable 18 times per day.
Can spontaneously cast any spell he grants.
Can use domain spells as SLAs at will. Caster level is HD+DR. Save is 20+Cha mod +spell level +DR.
Greater Teleport (100 lbs/DR objects) and Greater Plane Shift (100 lbs objects) at will.
DR 45/Silver and epic (plus alignment and unique weapon forging requirements)
Divine Aura (Ex): See text. Will use Fright mostly (Shaken, Will DC 28+cha_mod)
Spell Resistance 87
Skills: Add DR to all skill checks, ability checks, caster
level checks, and turning checks.
Equipment: Limited to +24 weapon (+10 actual enh), armor, and shield.
Swift actions: 20 per round, DC 30 or less. Can be any action within her portfolio, except only 1 swift spell per round.
Create items: Can be anything related to portfolio, including artifacts...
Portfolio sense: Senses anything related to it, up to 18 weeks in past or future.
Senses: All extend out to 18 miles.
Avatars: Can make up to 20, DR 0, half class levels. See book for more info.
Proxies: Can imbue mortals with divine power. This includes one SDA useable at the deities DR... Other crazy abilities. It might be worth taking all of the avatars and proxies and having them all coordinate attacks at once.

Dry Lich abilities (all saves DC 15+Wis_mod):
Dessicating Touch (5d6, Fort for half)
Aura of Despair (60' radius, Will or shaken for 1d4 rounds)
Constitution Drain Touch (Fort or take 1d6 Con drain, lich gains 5 temp HP)
Unholy Toughness (Cha mod to all hit dice)
Water weakness (water acts as Holy Water)
Fast Healing 2 (in arid environments)
Turn Resistance +6
DR 10/bludgeoning+magic
If destroyed, returns in 1d6 weeks if all 5 Canopic Jars not destroyed.

Immunities
Immune to Maze, never flatfooted, never lost (Minotaur).

Undead type

Deities have the following immunities. Individual deities may have more immunities. Unless otherwise indicated, these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of equal or higher rank.

Transmutation
A deity is immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters its form. Any shape-altering powers the deity might have work normally on itself.

Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage
A deity is not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage. (Attacks by equal or higher rank deities of this type should work.)

Energy Immunity
Immune to electricity (dragon), sonic (deific), acid (deific), fire (SDA), and cold energies (cold subtype, from a spell), even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank.

Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to disease and poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, and death effects, and disintegration.

Deities of rank 6 or higher are immune to effects that imprison or banish them. Such effects include banishment, binding, dimensional anchor, dismissal, imprisonment, repulsion, soul bind, temporal stasis, trap the soul, and turning and rebuking.

Other abilities
Barbarian: Pounce, Rage (for FB).

Frenzied Berzerker: Cannot die from hit point damage while Frenzying. Due to being a Dry Lich, he is also immune to subdual, so he can't be knocked unconscious from hit point damage, either. He only has 5 Rages and 5 Frenzies per day, though. And they only last 6 rounds, due to his lack of a Constitution score.

Blackguard: Cha to saves, fiendish companion based on character level, Rebuke Undead (used for Divine Might).

Half-dragon: Makes him immune to electricity, and gives him non-magical flight.

Cosmic Descryer:
Naturalization (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, the cosmic descryer develops a natural affinity for one plane that he or she has visited, becoming resistant to any spells and spell-like effects that would normally affect any creature not native to that plane.

Cosmic Connection (Su)
Dimension Door at will, can boost several things by an uncapped amount by taking damage.

Legendary Dreadnaught: Unstoppable and Unmovable powers twice per day, both of which are (Ex).
I'm not sure more Frenzied Berzerker wouldn't be better, due to the power attack improvements of that class.

He also has epic clerical spellcasting for insane buffage (some included above), and he has an Antimagic Field around him (which he ignores, thanks to his DR), making him immune to all magical attacks that don't come from deific beings (or epic spells?).

Water, Positive Energy, Divine, Vile damage and physical damage could be problems, while he isn't Frenzying. He has an SDA that totally stops all ranged weapon attacks, though, and he is by far most dangerous in melee. So if he forces his enemies to melee him, he will likely win. (Karmic Strike + Annihilating Strike + Improved Combat Reflexes means you don't want to melee him.)
Orb of Force ? Combined with Vile damage, you'll be toast I think. (Actually, any orb with vile damage ; after all, you can make yourself immune to force with Forceward)

The stealth way seems more productive, though some Ghost Trap that was not a Ghost Trap interfered with it last time.

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
Hmm... would beating Dispater at his own game (or changing his alignment to good) count as winning?

I'm thinking of a Kefka-themed build, but I'd need to use the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook and the DMG2 for it.


What about the item familiar rules? They're in the SRD, but are sorta varienty.


Also, how far is the starting point from his tower?

The job is to kill him. Sorry about that.

Other sourcebook material is allowed individually, but I do have access to both of the books you mentioned, but I need you to tell me what do you want from them. PM would be the best way to carry that out. Item familiar I do have to consider a bit longer.

The distance between the gates of Dis and the Iron Tower is undefined.

I might be interested in trying it now.

Urgh, I am getting more and more intimidated about running the challenge here. Really, comparing the stuff Dispater has and some creative ways of using them deviced by both DMs of the Iron Siege and other people who worked with Gates of Hell just make him a formidable opponent. As I said, while many of my rulings might differ from Witch's, Dispater's abilities do not.

All the hate I've seen in the posts here makes me a bit hesitant. It'd suck to receive treatment like that after killing of some challengers.
That treatment actually stemmed from Witch's attitude about it not so much the deaths. Something was just wrong with his charisma score basically.
You're attitude is in general much better.
....
However... there is some ...uhm... problem with killing people from off screen.
Its basically the paranoid spellcaster in his tower. Theoretically, he could just do something like just sit and clarivoyance scry and foresight and contingency ...
ad nauseum... and wait for the people he knows are coming to show up and have a plan just for that. Including things like having a fake tower of Dis (with all the trimmings or multiples of it even) bombarding you with a instant death rays every round etc...etc...
Or at least as Witch presented it. It's like a pun-pun dungeon.
Defeat "GOD" on his home plane.
Theorectically though maybe thats why in story Demon princes and Hell's generals still exist despite all the "gods" of good and such. I see people put a lot of love in it like the first thing I thought was some kind of minotaur, But that PhaedrusXY is incredible.
I can understand your weariness though... but again Witch was kinda of a jerk to a lot of people and you've been pretty cool in all your posts from what I've seen at least.....still good luck Tshern.
Time to get Lord of Procrastination out of retirement here at the CO boards perhaps?

Some of his builds was beyond spectacular, made most other builds look like fighter 1.
Midnight, I had a different perception of it : Witch did manage to put up politely with a lot of requests for ridiculous SDAs/spells/... and that wad damn nice of him.

What was frustrating was the "Your god doesn't know the rules of the universe" part.

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
The job is to kill him. Sorry about that.

The distance between the gates of Dis and the Iron Tower is undefined

Well, a major defection like that would end in his inevitable demise at the hands of every devil in existence anyway. If he didn't permanently destroy himself out of remorse/as penance (which seems to be a likely response from what I've seen of the cosmology)

Another question: can I be considered familiar with Dispater for the purposes of spells which require it (like sending, for example)
Another question: can I be considered familiar with Dispater for the purposes of spells which require it (like sending, for example)

I can try to field this one. You, as in your god, knows everything in the gates of hell PDF. There has to be a way to leverage that, but I would assume that you could be counted a familiar with Dispater because you know (Literally) all there is to know about him.

@ Tshern: I didn't have so much a problem with the deaths as with the attiude that radiated from Witch at the time I started to look at the challenge. I think that he was burned out but...Well he just seemed to be happy every time a challenger got taken down. I also don't think he ever responded to one of the *many* questions I posed on the challenge thread. I am happy to see this back with a person that I respect a whole lot more then Witch. You already have made this a little saner and better defined for me.

@ Phaedrus: An imunity build without Void Incarnate? Blasphemy! But seriously, If you want Improved Mettle, this is the class to turn to. Though your build seems to focus on damage imunity, if so you need a way for it to fast heal Vile Damage. Because nearly everything in hell uses it.
@ Phaedrus: An imunity build without Void Incarnate? Blasphemy! But seriously, If you want Improved Mettle, this is the class to turn to. Though your build seems to focus on damage imunity, if so you need a way for it to fast heal Vile Damage. Because nearly everything in hell uses it.

Yeah, I'm still working on it. I think I'll change it to half-(force)-dragon, if that's allowed, and then pick up energy immunities via SDAs and/or instantaneous spells. I definitely need to work in a way to deal with other forms of damage, especially vile, also.

Here are the SDAs I've chosen so far (and their prereqs and other info):

Alter Reality (Cha 29)
Clearsight (Wis 29)
Divine Fire Mastery (Fire Domain)
Divine Earth Mastery (Earth domain)
Divine Fast Healing (fast healing)
Divine Spellcasting (like Epic Spellcasting, but better)
Divine Storm (stops all ranged weapons, War domain)
Extra Energy Immunity (Sonic)
Extra Sense Enhancement (applied to Fire Mastery sense, senses all corporeal creatures within 18 miles)
Irresistable Blows (War domain, attacks are touch attacks)
Supreme Initiative (Dex 29, Improved Initiative. Always goes first.)

9 more...
I try to answer your questions later on, but right now I wish this thread would not be derailed just to rate Witch's performance. Thank you for that and your support.

Edit: PhaedrusXY: Your character indeed looks intriguing. I would be honoured to test my skills against his immunities. Do not worry, there is plenty of time for you to finnish him, but you can reserve a spot.
Yeah, I'm still working on it. I think I'll change it to half-(force)-dragon, if that's allowed, and then pick up energy immunities via SDAs and/or instantaneous spells. I definitely need to work in a way to deal with other forms of damage, especially vile, also.

Here are the SDAs I've chosen so far (and their prereqs and other info):

Alter Reality (Cha 29)
Clearsight (Wis 29)
Divine Fire Mastery (Fire Domain)
Divine Earth Mastery (Earth domain)
Divine Fast Healing (fast healing)
Divine Spellcasting (like Epic Spellcasting, but better)
Divine Storm (stops all ranged weapons, War domain)
Extra Energy Immunity (Sonic)
Extra Sense Enhancement (applied to Fire Mastery sense, senses all corporeal creatures within 18 miles)
Irresistable Blows (War domain, attacks are touch attacks)
Supreme Initiative (Dex 29, Improved Initiative. Always goes first.)

9 more...

IIRC There is an SDA that makes you impossible to surprise, most of the builds on the other thread used it with Supreme Initiative to always move first in combat.

Extra Domains are useful as a filler, the SLA's really would be the high point then.

I know it makes more work for both the DM and the players but we can make up our own SDA's the problem is it is hard to get a sense of what is a reasonable power level for these abilities. (When we start talking about reasonable power for gods you know we've hit Stoopid Epic)

I'm considering making a good deity that would have an SDA along the lines of:
Spurn the Vile (Prereqs: Good Alignment, Good Domain, Protection Domain Portfolio Elements: Either, Purity or Retrebution)
Benefits: The cosmic good that infuses your being rebels at any attempt to taint it. If you would be dealt damage by any spell with the Evil discriptor or vile damage you may, as an immediate action loose a ray that deals an equal amount of divine damage at the source of the attack. You have to be aware of the attacker to use this ability. As a side benefit you can heal vile damage as if it was normal damage.

That is of course a very rough idea.

@ Tshern: I've said everything I have to say about Witch, I'll not bring up the subject again. Again thank you for the answers.