The CO response to fastest possible speed

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Originally Posted by The SRD
Trip
You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.

Alright, this is a very relevant fact we overlooked.

However, with the bazillion feats and spells currently available, there just has to be some workaround...
We could also just accept it, shrug our shoulders and *only* dropkick,say, a human into orbit...
The workaround is quite simple, really. First you roast the terrasque into unconsciousness. Then you ask someone really really strong (a cancer mage, maybe?) to hold it for a second, then throw them, along with their equipment (including one flame-broiled, but still rare creature), wherever you want to.
An expansion, augmented to 7 pp, increases your size by 2 categories, and if you pay 13pp, it's swift instead of standard. Of course, this would requires a 13th level manifester, or perhaps some item. Still only gets you gargantuan though, not colossal.
With Practiced Manifester and Overchannel you can get down to only 7 actual levels of a psionic class, but you're still lagging behind on IL by just one.

However, a Martial Script of Tornado Throw is under 10,000gp, and can be initiated by anyone.
*how the heck did this post twice?
I'm going to reiterate one more time--do we really care about being able to trip the tarrasque? It'll be easier, simpler, better if we don't bother.
I'm going to reiterate one more time--do we really care about being able to trip the tarrasque? It'll be easier, simpler, better if we don't bother.

Not being ignored by just about any CR 20 in the MM would be nice, though. Even though it makes absolutely no sense, not being able to throw something over Large size is rather...limiting.
Unfortunately, the Mark of Minauros (FCII) only adds a +2 to hit for each 10ft. you moved, so you would need a way of directly transferring that bonus to your damage roll if you want to get a new damage record.

Yeah, I posted that. The post is "The Plotz" in my sig below. =)

I think this combo (if it works) allows the all time highest attack bonus too, with Mark of Minauros. Just be a drunken master and stagger around the planet a few times.
Yeah, I posted that. The post is "The Plotz" in my sig below. =)

I think this combo (if it works) allows the all time highest attack bonus too, with Mark of Minauros. Just be a drunken master and stagger around the planet a few times.

do they have planets in d&d? :P i thought there is only planes (j/k)
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks - My personal Character Optimization blog. 
Nerdy Meeples - A blog about reviewing and providing strategies on boardgames. 
Would that lead to a greater bonus on the trip attempt for a longer throw?
I noticed you had an extra domain open.
Using the rules in Complete Champion to give up the domain's granted power and spells for the Travel, you can give access to one domain for the appropriate Domain Devotion feat.

The Travel devotion feat is activated as a swift action and let's you move up to your speed once each round as a swift action for 1 minute. (2 turn undeads renew the ability)

So instead of a Domain from Contemplative, you can take the Travel Devotion feat.

Alternatively, if you're worried about hindering terrain, you could keep the Travel Domain for it's freedom of movement ability which requires no activation.

Just my 2 cp.


I considered Luck Devotion, but given the mathematical nature of statistics to converge to average anyway, it wouldn't be very effective. It would give a theoretical increase, but without advanced statistics I have no way to calculate it.

Although if we had a feat to work with, the Imbued Healing(Luck) would allow us to treat all rolls of 1's on damage as 2's, which would increase the average damage on a d6 from 3.5 to 3.666, for a .0476% increase. Probably not as good as a 1 1/3 move action from Extra Turning, but a better increase than something like Speed of Thought.
When damage is that high to start with, why do we care about further increasing it...?
When damage is that high to start with, why do we care about further increasing it...?

to beat the hulking hurler and set a new world record.
to beat the hulking hurler and set a new world record.

*shrugs*

Good enough for me. :P

I'll ask again, what is the build we're working off right now?

EDIT: Why not throw the opponent through a blade barrier while we're at it like my Ruby Shadow does? Massive, massive increase to damage (Xd6*#throws, where X is CL, to be specific).
good question, wish i had an answer for you
That would ruin the no prep time?

I like the idea, though.
really the preptime isn't all that important if that leads to such a great increase in fun.
Edit: Added a couple items, including Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity. Went back to Dorjes.

Class Levels

Currently, Chuck is a Cleric 1/Crusader 1/X 4/Swordsage 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10, though not necesarily in that order.
1st level is Cleric, 20th level is Swordsage and Crusader before Ruby Knight. "X" can be anything at the moment, though something that progresses Cleric casting is preferable. Contemplative was one suggestion.

A Few Good items:

A Panther Mask(MIC 201) grants Chuck the benefit of the Run feat and costs only 2700 gold. With the Belt of Battle(MIC 73), that's 5 times Chuck's speed for a single swift action.
May drop if the final build doesn't require running.

Reliquary Holy Symbol(MIC 120)--2 more turn undead attempts for the bargain basement price of 1000 gold.

Dorje of Hustle(50 charges)-6000 gold. With ranks in Use Psionic Device and a high Charisma, activation is guaranteed. Thanks to the Sage's ruling, activating of a spell-trigger item is the same action type as casting the spell. In this case, a swift action.

Circlet of Rapid Casting(MIC 86). 3 charges per day. Expend all three charges to cast a spell of up to 4th level as part of the same swift action required to activate the item, so long as the spell isn't longer than 1 standard action. Extended Footsteps is a 4th-level spell. Don't need Metamagic Rod of Quicken anymore.
15,000 gold.

Sword of Crypts (Arms and Equipment Guide, 42,315gp)
+2 Holy Longsword that gives 1 extra turn attempt each day, and adds +2 to turning damage
Very interesting. Since Chuck is a good-aligned Crusader, there's nothing wrong with him having a holy sword. And the Turn Undead use is nice.

Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity--3,825
+4 Cha = 2 extra turn attempts. Fly speed of double "normal" speed.

Total spent: 70,840 gold
Remaining: 689,160 gold

Calculation of Swift Actions

DMM: Persistent Spell is 7 turn undead attempts and Divine Impetus is 1/additional swift action.

3+Cha+2(holy symbol)+1(Sword)+4X(Extra Turning feats)= number of turn undead attempts.

Max Charisma is 34 at level 20. 18 base+5 levels+5 tome+6 enhancement item. So that's +12 Charisma bonus.
After Greater Visage of the Deity, Charisma is 38, for a +14 Charisma bonus.

So 20+4X-7(persist)= number of extra swift actions.
This simplifies to 13+4X.

Now to figure out the number of potential Extra Turning feats

Feats
Human Persistent Spell
Planning Extend Spell
Undeath Extra Turning
1 DMM: Persist
3 Extra Turning
6 Extra Turning
9 Extra Turning
12 Extra Turning
15 Extra Turning
18 Extra Turning

So 7 Extra Turnings

28+13=41 extra swift actions.

Using Our Extra Actions

Our free swift action will be to activate Circlet of Rapid Casting to cast Extended Footsteps as a swift action and then apply Persistent Spell via Divine Metamagic.
Then we forego the remaining duration to increase our base speed to 288,080 ft for the rest of the round.

Our Standard action is using the Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity, which gives +4 Charisma and a fly speed of double our "normal" speed. I'm using base speed as my working definition of "normal" and Chuck's base speed is 288,080 ft, since Footsteps of the divine actually increases base speed instead of applying a bonus.
Chuck's new fly speed is 576,160 ft.

Our move action will be to move 576,160 ft.

We have 41 free swift actions for Chuck to use, thanks to a high number of Turn Undead attempts and Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine Impetus ability.
Chuck's first 40 will be used to activate the Dorje of Hustle to move 40 x 576,160 ft.

Our last additional swift action will be using the Belt of Battle using all three charges to generate an extra full-round action to initiate Tornado Throw.

41 Chuck increments before the throw and 43 after, if this is the case.

How Far, How Hard

A "Chuck Increment" is about 576,160 feet for a human, or 109.53 miles. This is how far Chuck can move in a single move action. He moves twice this distance when initiating Tornado Throw.

576160*41=23,622,560 ft(4490.98 miles)
23,622,560 ft * +2/5 ft = +9,449,024 to 1st trip check
9,449,020 ft thrown(1796.39 miles)
1,889,806 d6
6,614,321 avg. damage
7,937,185 with Aura of Chaos

576160*43=24,774,880 ft(4710.05 miles)
24,774,880 ft * +2/5 ft = +9,909,952 to last trip check
9,909,950 ft thrown(1884.02 miles)
1,981,992 d6
6,936,972 avg. damage
8,324,366 with Aura of Chaos

(7,937,185 + 8,324,366) / 2 = 8,130,775 is about the average damage of a throw.

8,130,775 * 115,232 throws is 936,925,522,400 damage

Everyone Else

Someone to double-check my numbers

Other sources of turn undead attempts.

Anything that grants immunity to daze--Greater Celerity is worth investigating.
Nat 1 is never a failure on skills.
Nat 1 is never a failure on skills.

Yes. I just found the relevant text:
Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

I knew I saw Nat 1 in there somewhere.
So the Dorje is for sure a go. Will edit my post.

Anyone know the activation time for a Metamagic Rod of Quicken? I know what it should be, but what's the Rules as Written?

Okay, assuming MMRoQ is a go, average damage is 239,808,451,000.

I went back to the Hulking Hurler thread and found the most current build and it's fatal flaw: it used 3.0 Girallon's blessing to get 5 extra arms for Fuse Arms. But it's been updated in Spell Compendium to just one set of arms. So the Hurler is down 16 Str.
To be fair, I gave him a Belt of Wide Earth from Magic Item Compendium to double his carrying capacity.

So the Hurler's current average damage is 240,367,844,700.

We're just shy 559,393,700 damage.

A single turn undead attempt will up the damage by 5 billion.
We're Nightstick-free so far. Is there any other items that can give turn attempts other than Nightstick?
1. The Sun Domain allows for 1 Greater Turning attempt per day. Not sure if we can fit that in, or if it even works...

EDIT:OOOH!
Sword of Crypts (Arms and Equipment Guide, 42,315gp)

+2 Holy Longsword that gives 1 extra turn attempt each day, and adds +2 to turning damage
WTF? It isn't bumping to the front!

EDIT: Ahh, there it goes. Odd bug, that.
Anyone know the activation time for a Metamagic Rod of Quicken? I know what it should be, but what's the Rules as Written?

It's a no-action item. It cues off of a cast spell, so its activation is subsumed in the casting of the spell. The spell is quickened, so it's (sort of) a swift action to activate - as long as it's already in your hand when you cast the spell. Drawing it is still a move action.

I still don't see how you're getting that dorje off with a swift action. As far as I can see, dorjes are always at least a standard action to use.

EDIT - However, with use of Leadership and about 120,000 gp worth of 3pp cognizance crystals, a Cleric 1/Crusader 1/Psychic Warrior 4/Swordsage 4/RKV 10 could still pull it off in one round, and stay well within budget. This has the added advantage of not having to worry about edge cases like trying to draw a wand (which isn't actually a weapon) with Quick Draw. Leadership is to have a friendly Psion who stays back at base, and recharges the cognizance crystals for Chuck whenever he needs it.
Cloak of Charisma +6 grants 3 extra turning attempts to Clerics and Palidans. Tome of Influence +5 grants either 2 or 3 extra attempts (depending on if your original Charisma was even or odd).

So, that's 5 or 6 extra attempts. And that's just from the DMG.

I'm assuming all ability score increases went into charisma,. If not, that goes for 2 or 3 more attempts.

Any other Cha bonuses we can get?
just go for cheddar chuck with nightsticks
It's a no-action item. It cues off of a cast spell, so its activation is subsumed in the casting of the spell. The spell is quickened, so it's (sort of) a swift action to activate - as long as it's already in your hand when you cast the spell. Drawing it is still a move action.

Alright. Thanks.

I still don't see how you're getting that dorje off with a swift action. As far as I can see, dorjes are always at least a standard action to use.

I was going off post 234 on the previous page, made by you. You quoted the sage as saying that if a spell-trigger item is of a spell with a casting time other than a standard action, then that is it's casting time.

I'm not sure where you got that quote from since it's in neither the 3.5 nor the 3.0 FAQ's.

Edit: No matter, Cognizance Crystals and Psychic Warrior levels it is. Will edit appropriately.
Nothing like blending spellcasting, psionics and maneuvers to create this monstrosity.
Alright. Thanks.



I was going off post 234 on the previous page, made by you. You quoted the sage as saying that if a spell-trigger item is of a spell with a casting time other than a standard action, then that is it's casting time.

I'm not sure where you got that quote from since it's in neither the 3.5 nor the 3.0 FAQ's.

Rules of the game: Using Magic items (part two)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041116a

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the kind of magic item or its activation method, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.
I was going off post 234 on the previous page, made by you. You quoted the sage as saying that if a spell-trigger item is of a spell with a casting time other than a standard action, then that is it's casting time.

Wow I feel stupid. I totally misunderstood that quote as I posted it. I thought it said that only spells with a casting time greater than 1 standard action change the activation time for the wand. So yeah... dorjes for everyone!!

The cognizance crystal method is more repeatable, but will take more resources out of the build. Do we care about repeatability??
The cognizance crystal method is more repeatable, but will take more resources out of the build. Do we care about repeatability??

The purpose of any optimization is always a goal, or set of goals. We care about repeatability if one of the optimization points is repeatability :D

That said, I think the current goals are, in no particular order:
I) Beat some damage record (repeatability nice, not necessary)

II) Set some distance record (already beaten like a Fighter 20, so just need to set the bar as high as possible)

Then come up with varying optimizations for playability, which probably means limiting books needed, DM-warning-list options and items curtailed, etc. (Divine Metamagic and Nightsticks, I'm looking at you.)
As is, I believe we were close to beating Hulking Hurler without Nightsticks.

As skydragonknight put it...
Okay, assuming MMRoQ is a go, average damage is 239,808,451,000.

I went back to the Hulking Hurler thread and found the most current build and it's fatal flaw: it used 3.0 Girallon's blessing to get 5 extra arms for Fuse Arms. But it's been updated in Spell Compendium to just one set of arms. So the Hurler is down 16 Str.
To be fair, I gave him a Belt of Wide Earth from Magic Item Compendium to double his carrying capacity.

So the Hurler's current average damage is 240,367,844,700.

We're just shy 559,393,700 damage.

A single turn undead attempt will up the damage by 5 billion.
We're Nightstick-free so far. Is there any other items that can give turn attempts other than Nightstick?

Not that anyone's noticed, but my last post put up two core items (Cloak of Charisma +6 and Tome of Influence +5) that would easily give us 5 or 6 turn attempts more, simply by boosting the Charisma of Chuck. Hello new legal damage record.
So the Hurler's current average damage is 240,367,844,700.

Er, what? 1.68 trillion d6s would be like 5.88 trillion average damage.
Er, what? 1.68 trillion d6s would be like 5.88 trillion average damage.

Just got a reply from the man himself over on the Theo boards.
Average Damage for the Hurler is 480,735,689,459, since he uses a pointy object which is treated at double weight.
The Hurler's Maxed-out Critical Hit is 1,648,236,650,000ish

That's okay though. We don't have to beat Max damage, just average damage.
We already have a few records set, like farthest continuous distance travelled in one round without infinite combo(2409.79 miles), farthest thrown halfling(985.82 miles), and largest trip check modifier(+5,185,440).

Not that anyone's noticed, but my last post put up two core items (Cloak of Charisma +6 and Tome of Influence +5) that would easily give us 5 or 6 turn attempts more, simply by boosting the Charisma of Chuck. Hello new legal damage record.

I've got both of those in my calculations of Turn Undead attempts. Sorry I was slow to respond.

Chuck could still use a morale, sacred or competence bonus to Charisma.
A scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity would give Chuck +4 Cha if he is good, yielding 2 more turn undead attempts, but requiring prep time.

Edited the post on page 9, added a couple items including one that replaces the Metamagic Rod.

Major find: A Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity will allow a good-aligned Chuck to get not only +4 unnamed bonus to Charisma, but also to get a fly speed equal to twice his normal speed
One round of prep time will literally double our damage. The maneuver doesn't care about if you travel on the ground, as long as you move X distance, you gain Y benefit.
Major find: A Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity will allow a good-aligned Chuck to get not only +4 unnamed bonus to Charisma, but also to get a fly speed equal to twice his normal speed
One round of prep time will literally double our damage. The maneuver doesn't care about if you travel on the ground, as long as you move X distance, you gain Y benefit.

Excellent find! Now we've got a good chance of beating the old damage record.

Oh, and FYI, we wouldn't be doubling it because of how series work. We'd be doing so much more than just doubling.

Now, if we can find a way to activate that as a swift action...
A Scroll of Greater Visage of the Deity will allow a good-aligned Chuck to get not only +4 unnamed bonus to Charisma, but also to get a fly speed equal to twice his normal speed.

A decent find for the Cha bonus entailed, but a mere doubling of Chuck's normal speed (30ft base) pales in comparison to the 288000ft that's added on afterwards.
Could you have an artificer switch around charisma bonuses?
Just got a reply from the man himself over on the Theo boards.
Average Damage for the Hurler is 480,735,689,459, since he uses a pointy object which is treated at double weight.
The Hurler's Maxed-out Critical Hit is 1,648,236,650,000ish

That's okay though. We don't have to beat Max damage, just average damage.

Then you have to try and beat LoP's damage that uses Knuth's arrow notation. Good luck on that front :P.
While we're at it, Greater Visage of the Deity can possibly add a bit more damage since it gives +4str (unnamed) so it's a +2 on the trip check and if we get +1d6 per throw per +5 on the trip.

Since we kinda make a lot of throws (57,616) , it may be a good idea to pump str or dex a bit since it gives 57,616 d6 per +5 bonus we get on the check. :P
Obvious ones:

Belt of Giant Strength +6

strength manual +5

dojore of Expansion (augmented)
Footsteps of the Divine has a table with deities, movement modes and speed. Beneath the table is the following text:

Your assumption of a new movement mode, if any, imposes certain physical changes on you. For instance, if footsteps of the divine grants you flight, you grow wings; if it grants you a burrow speed, you grow heavy digging claws; and so forth. A "--" entry indicates that you gain no new movement type, but your base speed increases by the amount indicated.(emphasis mine)
At any point before the duration expires, you can choose to employ a truly inhuman burst of speed. Doing this adds an additional +10 feet to your speed per round remaining in the spell's duration. However, this effect lasts only for a single round, after which the spell expires.

So if my base speed-which is my "normal" speed-increases, wouldn't my fly speed increase accordingly?

I'm inclined to say yes, but I'm willing to accept a well-reasoned arguement otherwise.