The CO response to fastest possible speed

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For theoretical optimization, the rod of Extend would be best. Since it takes a move action to draw the rod, though, it would ruin our current "no prep time" status.

I'd suggest we go with DMM: Extend. That way, the spell can still be cast Quickened+ Persisted + Extended for a 1 round kill, albeit at the cost of extra turning attempts. The Persisted + Extended trick can still be used at the beginning of the day to conserve spell slots and turning attempts (and still kill anything, ever), but if the spell ever gets dispelled, having Quicken around will be essential.

Assuming the build is Cleric 4/Contemplative 2/Swordsage 4/RKV 10...

1) Cleric domains (3) are Planning, Undeath, and the other one that grants Extra Turning as the domain power.

2) Certain feats are required, being Martial Study, Martial Stance, Quicken Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, and DMM: Extend.

3) As a human, the build has 8 feats available to it, leaving 2 left over for Extra Turning (plus the other 2 Extra Turning effects from the domains).

Assuming a Cha of 14, that leaves us with 22 turning attempts per day, and...

Swift Action: Quickened Divine Persisted Divine Extended spell (9 Turn Attempts)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
EDIT - Swift action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)


Giving double the movement speed of the original estimation (288000), and moving that speed a maximum of 7x before throwing the opponent (2016000), giving a 40% bonus on the trip check (806400), and throwing the opponent about the same distance (~806400ft), dealing 1D6 for every 5ft thrown (~161280D6, avg ~564480).

So the current calculations are 806400ft throwing distance, and 564480 damage.

Incidentally, this also generates enough velocity to defeat the sun's gravitational pull, giving you the ability to throw your opponent to another solar system!!
You know about these right?
"Tome of Battle Maneuver Cards by Mark A Jindra"

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

Omg! You are my new hero-for-the-day :D
Next we need to work on getting the velocity to over 40 km/s, to generate enough speed to launch them out of the solar system!!

Escape velocity of the Solar System is 15 km/s.
For theoretical optimization, the rod of Extend would be best. Since it takes a move action to draw the rod, though, it would ruin our current "no prep time" status.

I'd suggest we go with DMM: Extend. That way, the spell can still be cast Quickened+ Persisted + Extended for a 1 round kill, albeit at the cost of extra turning attempts. The Persisted + Extended trick can still be used at the beginning of the day to conserve spell slots and turning attempts (and still kill anything, ever), but if the spell ever gets dispelled, having Quicken around will be essential.

Assuming the build is Cleric 4/Contemplative 2/Swordsage 4/RKV 10...

1) Cleric domains (3) are Planning, Undeath, and the other one that grants Extra Turning as the domain power.

2) Certain feats are required, being Martial Study, Martial Stance, Quicken Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, and DMM: Extend.

3) As a human, the build has 8 feats available to it, leaving 2 left over for Extra Turning (plus the other 2 Extra Turning effects from the domains).

Assuming a Cha of 14, that leaves us with 22 turning attempts per day, and...

Swift Action: Quickened Divine Persisted Divine Extended spell (9 Turn Attempts)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Initiate Maneuver (Quicksilver Motion)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)
Swift Action: Divine Recovery (Quicksilver Motion) (1 Turn Attempt)
Divine Impetus (1 Turn Attempt)


Giving double the movement speed of the original estimation (288000), and moving that speed a maximum of 6x before throwing the opponent (1728000), giving a 40% bonus on the trip check (691200), and throwing the opponent about the same distance (~691200ft), dealing 1D6 for every 5ft thrown (~138240D6, avg ~483840).

So the current calculations are 691200ft throwing distance, and 483840 damage.

Incidentally, this also generates enough velocity to defeat the sun's gravitational pull, giving you the ability to throw your opponent to another solar system!!

Also, as someone mentioned before, this is only your damage against a single target at the very end of the maneuver. When you actually initiate the maneuver, you can hit as a many targets as you want as long as you move 10ft before you hit the next target. So you get 4x move before the first target, and then you get to attack as many opponents as you can reach....

Did we just break the total damage record for multiple targets as well?
Ehy, let me think... why don't we...

ok, let me order my thoughts a bit.

Start 10 feet away from your enemy. Throw him. Move the distance required to throw him again. Throw him again. Move again the distance required to reach him, and throw him again.

See? You could keep throwing your single opponent away, running back against him and throwing him again. And again. And again, as long as you have movement left, which is a lot. As you keep throwing him, you'll have to move greater and greater distances to reach him and throw him again. Eventually, if you're afraid that the damage from a single attack could throw your opponent out of your reach (for example, in space, where you couldn't survive, even if you could get there by flying), just circle around him for a while until you expend all of your movement and execute the final throw.

Anyway, in all of your previous calculations, you were assuming that we would expend all of our movement circling around an enemy and then finally throwing him.

That's far from necessary... assuming your math is right, you could throw a single opponent for a total of 172800 times if, somehow, we had a way to make him fall back no more than 10 feet.

Technically, to get precise damage figures, you should calculate the average damage / knockback after 10 feet, calculate the distance moved by your opponent, and then assume that you moved the equivalent of that distance, add the 10 feet you moved before your first throw attempt, throw your opponent again and so on until your movement is fully expended.


Anyone good at maths can make a decent algorythm to calculate the average possible damage? I think very, very, very big numbers are going to show up. Far in the billions probably.
I was thinking this morning: as impressive as this is, it gives only a 28% return on distance moved (bonus of +2 per 5 feet moved on the trip attempt; trip attempt deals 1d6 damage per five feet; 2/5/5 = 0.08; 0.08*3.5 = 0.28).

Using Mark of Minauros, on the other hand, generates returns 20% on distance charged--but on your to-hit roll, not damage. Is there a way to break the BAB limit on Power Attack? If so, you could PA for a couple hundred thousand, get 2:1 or better return using any of the ubercharger tricks, and get an extra boatload of damage over the Tornado Throw build (although without being able to relocate pesky opponents a hundred miles away).
Also, not to derail the thread from Tornado Throw, but with that kind of movement, you could:
* Attack everyone within a 54 mile optimized line, once each, with Desert Tempest.
* Set everything on fire for 12d6 damage within a solid-ground circumference of 54 miles, Reflex half, with Ring of Fire. Inside buildings. Underground. Immersed in water. Every creature.
* Leave a 5-round, 6d6 damage trail of fire, 54 miles long. (Presumably, you travel back in time at the end of this line.)
Ehy, let me think... why don't we...

ok, let me order my thoughts a bit.

Start 10 feet away from your enemy. Throw him. Move the distance required to throw him again. Throw him again. Move again the distance required to reach him, and throw him again.

See? You could keep throwing your single opponent away, running back against him and throwing him again. And again. And again, as long as you have movement left, which is a lot. As you keep throwing him, you'll have to move greater and greater distances to reach him and throw him again. Eventually, if you're afraid that the damage from a single attack could throw your opponent out of your reach (for example, in space, where you couldn't survive, even if you could get there by flying), just circle around him for a while until you expend all of your movement and execute the final throw.

Anyway, in all of your previous calculations, you were assuming that we would expend all of our movement circling around an enemy and then finally throwing him.

That's far from necessary... assuming your math is right, you could throw a single opponent for a total of 172800 times if, somehow, we had a way to make him fall back no more than 10 feet.

Technically, to get precise damage figures, you should calculate the average damage / knockback after 10 feet, calculate the distance moved by your opponent, and then assume that you moved the equivalent of that distance, add the 10 feet you moved before your first throw attempt, throw your opponent again and so on until your movement is fully expended.


Anyone good at maths can make a decent algorythm to calculate the average possible damage? I think very, very, very big numbers are going to show up. Far in the billions probably.

Try throwing them against a wall. (wall of Force in midair works for this)

*After executing all of your throws in the dungeon*
DM: Congrats, you managed to paint the entire room blood red in six seconds...

EDIT: Oh yeah, you could use a rod of Quicken (instead of Extend). That way, you've got an additional feat choice. Say, Quick Draw (so you not only can draw the rod as a free action, but can also draw any other weapon as a free action)?
Try throwing them against a wall. (wall of Force in midair works for this)

If you succeed in tripping your foe, you throw him up to 10 feet away from you. The target falls prone in the destination space and takes 2d6 points of damage. You choose where he lands. For every 5 points by which you win the opposed check, you gain an additional 5 feet of throw distance and the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. For example, if you win by 10, you can place your foe in any space within 20 feet of you, and he takes a total of 4d6 points of damage.

Technically, you don't need a wall, and you don't need to throw him the maximum distance to deal the damage, so you only need 3x1 squares to work with - just keep tossing him from A1 to A3 and back.

Incidentally, doing so completely destroys that 28% return on damage figure :D
Technically, you don't need a wall, and you don't need to throw him the maximum distance to deal the damage, so you only need 3x1 squares to work with - just keep tossing him from A1 to A3 and back.

Incidentally, doing so completely destroys that 28% return on damage figure :D

Oooh right! How couldn't I notice the example? I can throw my opponent in ANY SQUARE inside the potential rolled throwing distance!

Oh well... this is getting a lot more absurd now.

Ok now, we throw our opponent a total of 172800 times, each time 10 feet away. Each time we throw our enemy, we get an additional, cumulative +2 bonus for the 10 feet we just moved.

Anyone knows how to calculate the damage now?
Anyone knows how to calculate the damage now?

With a recursive function. :D

Edit:
Okay, assuming the 172800 throw attempts figure is correct, (and it's +2 per 5' btw, so that's +4 per 10'):

Final (172800th) Throw = Xd6 damage
172800-Nth Throw = (X-0.8N)d6 damage

For example:
1st throw = (X-138239.2)d6
2nd throw = (X-138238.4)d6
etc...

Average Damage would be (X-69119.6)d6
Total damage should be Total Throws * Average Throw Damage, or 172800*Xd6 - 11943866880d6

2nd Edit:
Am I the only one frightened by the fact that the subtracted number is in the tens of billions of d6s?
Wait, why not throw him every 5 feet?

The ToB says that you may throw them UP TO 10ft. It never says you must throw them at least 10 feet.

So, now you are throwing them 345,600 times, each one with insane (and increasing every other throw) amounts of damage.

Am I going to figure the damage? It would take a while, so probably not.
All I need to know is that nothing will survive this.

Yup. I think we've shattered the old damage records.
Wait, why not throw him every 5 feet?

The problem is, you must move at least 10ft between throws
Wait, why not throw him every 5 feet?

The ToB says that you may throw them UP TO 10ft. It never says you must throw them at least 10 feet.

So, now you are throwing them 345,600 times, each one with insane (and increasing every other throw) amounts of damage.

Am I going to figure the damage? It would take a while, so probably not.
All I need to know is that nothing will survive this.

Yup. I think we've shattered the old damage records.

After every 10 feet you move, you can attempt another throw. That's how the maneuver works.


Anyway, we broke every previous speed record by far.

With a completly legal build that uses all 3.5 material, no preparation and no obscure mechanics.
It's also fairly optimized for practical purposes.

It doesn't require changes of alignment, custom magic items (in fact... you can pull if off using absolutely no item at all), it doesn't employ Nightsticks (even ONE Nightstick would pump the damage a lot higher).

Additionally, we broke every damage per round / damage on single target / damage on multiple targets record held so far without recurring to any infinite loop.
whoops. never mind.
Holy... :evillaugh

Start 10 feet away from your enemy. Throw him. Move the distance required to throw him again. Throw him again. Move again the distance required to reach him, and throw him again.

This is easy. If I'm remembering the wording of tornado throw properly, the damage is not dependent on how far you throw your opponent--and you can throw them to any point within the maximum of 5 feet per 5 points you beat your opponent's trip.

Anyone good at maths can make a decent algorythm to calculate the average possible damage? I think very, very, very big numbers are going to show up. Far in the billions probably.

It's not hard... I think.

You move 4x your speed (288,000 ft.) before initiating tornado throw. That's a base bonus of 460,800 (1,152,000/5*2) to your first trip attempt, generating 322,560 (460,800/5*3.5) damage on each throw.

You have 2x your speed to move during the tornado throw, or 576,000 feet. Each 25' increment generates 2d6 damage (that is, each additional 25' you move gives a +10 bonus to the trip attempt, which generates 2d6 damage). For convenience of calculation, then, we'll throw, move 25', throw, move 25', etc. 576,000 feet is 23,040 25' increments. The damage for the current throw is 7 (for 2d6) times the number of increments moved, plus 322,560.

Therefore, the maximum damage dealt during the round is... well, easiest to write in summation notation. Here's my attempt:

sum(i=1 to 23040) of (7*i + 322,560)

This is the same as 322,560*23,040 + 7*sum(i=1 to 23040) of i, or 322,560*23,040 + 7*23,040*23,041/2 = 7,431,782,400 + 1,858,026,240 = 9,289,808,640 points of damage... divided up among any number of creatures you can reach with your ridiculous movement.

EDIT: Ninja'ed, sort of. Yeah, this definitely breaks any other damage combo, short of an infinite loop. Also, someone please check my math (paging Tleilaxu_Ghola)!
throw, move 25', throw, move 25', etc.

Won't you be loosing out on 1.5 throws per 25' this way?
Won't you be loosing out on 1.5 throws per 25' this way?

Yep, he is. I'm using 10' increments for my calculations above.
Alright, I think I've got this correct, and if I do, then calculating the damage while throwing the opponent every 10ft isn't actually that hard.

Dealing XD6 damage per throw, we know that X increases by 1 every 2.5 throws. That gives us (2.5)(1D6)(N+1) for our damage per throw, where N is the number of 2.5 throw cycles previously executed. N will progress from 0 -> 69119, in increments of 1.

Since the equation is linear, being the summation of each throw's damage, the (2.5)(1D6) terms can be factored out, leaving us with (1)+(2)+...+(69119)+(69120). This can be quicky converted to (2.5)(1D6)(69120)(69121)/2 - R.

That means the total damage will be ~5972054400D6, or ~20,902,190,400 average. But since this is actually just an estimate until we determine the value of R, I'll round the estimate down to lowest possible value. R will be ~10% of the total, so the actual damage dealt is...

More than 5374848960D6, averaging 18,811,971,360.

I think R will actually be equal to (.5)(1D6)(N+N+1)/2, which, although doable, I will have to come back to later, since I have to rush and do something (I'm at work).


EDIT - Actually, rmccowen is right. I forgot to factor in the 4x movement that you can't do any throws in.

EDIT2 - Actually, we're both wrong. I'll be back to fix my calculations later. (He's not wrong, but he didn't get the full potential by throwing every 10ft)
Yep, he is. I'm using 10' increments for my calculations above.

There was an error in the number I gave you.
You cannot start throwing right away.

The first 1152000 feet moved come from Quicksilver Motion. You can start throwing after you moved 10 feet from the double move granted by Tornado Throw.
Your first throwing attempt happens after you moved a total of 1152010 feet, leaving you with 57599 throws, if I'm not mistaken
(288000 ft base speed * 2 - 10) / 10 = 57599.
Your first throwing attempt happens after you moved a total of 1152010 feet, leaving you with 57599 throws, if I'm not mistaken
(288000 ft base speed * 2 - 10) / 10 = 57599.

Correct you are. Well, actually, it'd still be 57600 throws, since you get 1 throw per 10ft moved (it would be 1 less if you had to move at least 20ft before the first throw). I started recalculating with those numbers as you were doing that post :P

Using the correct numbers, and not posting all my math this time...

6635681280D6, average 23,224,884,480.

This damage can be spread between up to 57,600 enemies, as long as you deal at least 92160D6 (322,560) to each target.
There was an error in the number I gave you.
You cannot start throwing right away.

The first 1152000 feet moved come from Quicksilver Motion. You can start throwing after you moved 10 feet from the double move granted by Tornado Throw.
Your first throwing attempt happens after you moved a total of 1152010 feet, leaving you with 57599 throws, if I'm not mistaken
(288000 ft base speed * 2 - 10) / 10 = 57599.

Ah, ok.

So the first throw does 2d6 + (1,152,010 feet / 5 feet * 2 bonus / 5 bonus per d6) d6 damage, or 92,162.8 d6 damage.

The final throw does 2d6 + ( (1,152,010 feet + 288,000 base speed * 2 moves) / 5 feet * 2 bonus / 5 bonus per d6) d6 damage, or 138,242.8 d6 damage.

We get 57,600 throws (you adjusted by 10 feet twice, as LordP says above), averaging 115,202.8 d6 damage each, for a total average damage of 6,635,681,280 d6, or 23,224,884,480 average damage.
Man I really suck at maths. Anyway... this character is making me cry! It's just so good... really, it's great.
Ehi, everybody... Has anybody checked with CustServ whether Footsteps of the divine is actually Persist-able? 'Cause if so, this is a multi-uber-world-record!
Just for the sake of saying it, lets see how many records were just broken:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=292273

Damage:
Old Record: 5-6000 d6 damage. (Hulking Hurler)
Us: Somewhere in the billion d6 range.

Number of Attacks: (assuming you accound each throw as an attack)
Old Record: 1496 by Disposable Hero (Character + two thralls)
Us: 50k+ attacks/throws.

Speed:
Old Record: 2,238 mph. (by Tha_Sage)
New Record: 40 miles/second (or more)


Man I really suck at maths. Anyway... this character is making me cry! It's just so good... really, it's great.

And the best part is? We didn't have to invoke any obscure rules or even use more then three classes (two base and one prestige).
That means there's only one step left... call CustServ and get the official ruling on Persisting a spell that can be ended at will, but doesn't have "or until discharged" in the duration entry.

EDIT - Also, if Extend is ruled not to stack properly with Persist, then the damage will be cut to 25%, while the distance and number of attacks will only be cut to 50%. That still breaks all the records.
That means there's only one step left... call CustServ and get the official ruling on Persisting a spell that can be ended at will, but doesn't have "or until discharged" in the duration entry.

This honor should be Pyrohemophiliac's.
For the exact total on the speed record:
Distance moved: 4(288,000) + 576,000 = 1,728,000 Ft

/5,280 ft/mi = 327.27 miles/rd, or 54.54 Mi/s, or ~87.27 Km/s.

*3,600s = 196,363.63 mph, or 314,181.81 kph.

To be sure, we've still only achieved ~00.02911104% of the speed of light.
Actually, if you just want to get speed boosted, you could increase those numbers by 50%, since instead of moving double your speed as a full-round action (with Tornado throw), you could move 5x your speed by taking a run action (with the Run feat, of course).
So the first throw does 2d6 + (11,520,010 feet / 5 feet * 2 bonus / 5 bonus per d6) d6 damage, or 921,602.8 d6 damage.

I think your speed is off by a power of 10, there; also, it may have propagated through your calculations. If not, then I was wrong and the damage is even better than I thought.
Actually, if you just want to get speed boosted, you could increase those numbers by 50%, since instead of moving double your speed as a full-round action (with Tornado throw), you could move 5x your speed by taking a run action (with the Run feat, of course).

Or just mix in the Cheetah thing again.
I think your speed is off by a power of 10, there; also, it may have propagated through your calculations. If not, then I was wrong and the damage is even better than I thought.

Checking... I think you're right, and editing earlier post...

Aaand my numbers are still entirely different than yours :P
Checking... I think you're right, and editing earlier post...

Aaand my numbers are still entirely different than yours :P

But your new numbers are correct. I had forgotten to compensate for the 2.5 throws per iteration when doing my calculations the 2nd time.
Maybe if the parameters where clearly defined, we could just write a program to do the calculations.

Damage calculation for each throw, distance moved before the first throw, distance moved during throw, distance between throws, etc, etc.

I may be able to cobble something together in excel or java if we have this. Maybe not. I'm on vacation this weekend for Labor Day.
Maybe if the parameters where clearly defined, we could just write a program to do the calculations.

Damage calculation for each throw, distance moved before the first throw, distance moved during throw, distance between throws, etc, etc.

I may be able to cobble something together in excel or java if we have this. Maybe not. I'm on vacation this weekend for Labor Day.

I did my final double-checking in Excel :D

Granted, I took the movement speed stuff as quoted, because I'm lazy, and don't actually have the spell text.
Heh. Ok, good enough. I wasn't sure how sure people were with the numbers being calculated.
That is a very impressive piece of work. With how large these numbers are now, I think we need to define a new unit of measurement:

Kilocube = 1000d6 worth of damage (3,500 on average)

Meteor Swarm: 0.032 kilocubes
Vengeful Gaze of God: .305 kilocubes
Ubercharger: 9.778 kilocubes per full attack
Hulking Hurler: 7.68 kilocubes per attack

Unamed Tornado Throw build: 18,811,971.36 kilocubes

Someone should definitely name this monster too.
I wonder...

Would it be possible to use the speed involved in this with a Belt of Battle, Mark of Minaouros and Avalanche of Blades to break records.

In other thoughts, you could just use the Belt of Battle to repeat this, couldn't you?
Unamed Tornado Throw build: 18,811,971.36 kilocubes

Someone should definitely name this monster too.

I was trying to think up an appropriately cheesy name to go along with the gouda.

Something that perhaps paid homage to the Hulking Hurler, considering we were hurling something out of the solar system, or perhaps "Escape Velocity," for similar reasons.

In the end, it's just Yet Another Ruby Knight Windicator.
He/She has to have either "Divine" or "Footprints" in his/her name!

Ruby Tornado of Escape Velocity Footprints?