Consolidated Binder Handbook

488 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ahhh, that's what I get for not reading the rest of the thread.

Well, I'd actually allow that in my game. 1/5 rounds (or even 1/4 rounds) is infrequent enough to force you into completely different tactics. You're vastly weaker than a Wizard based Shadowcraft Mage. Theoretically you could keep going at full strength when the Wizard is out of effective spells, but in my experience you just don't fight enough in a given day for that to become a major issue, especially with a Focused Specialist.

I think the main issue is how to scale it.

Major image is a 3rd level spell, so can you only emulate 3rd level and lower spells? If so, then this is definitely not too strong; 3rd level spells at will is just not that good compared to say, a Warlock (which is a bit weak for a primary caster anyway). Technically you can't heighten it either, so it'd actually be 2nd level.

Another way to do it would be to model the ability after Zceryll's summoning power. Your Major Image ability counts as a level equal to the maximum a Sorcerer could cast. Since you can only emulate a spell of one level LOWER than the slot used, this would mean a character with Binder Level 10 would be able to cast all 4th level and lower sorcerer/wizard spells from 1.5 schools once every 5, and potentially 4 rounds. I'd say this is still totally balanced for MY games, your mileage my vary of course.
Shadowcraft Mage specifically references spells. Haures' Major Image ability is not a spell, it merely acts like one.

Which is why I mentioned it in response to a post asking about PrCs focused around a specific spell or spell-like ability which could be adapted to binder use.

edit: ninja'd.
I see what you are saying Subedei...

If it didn't scale, casting conjuration and evocation spells every 5 rounds of 2nd or 1st level wouldn't be that bad. Its in line with the other vestige abilities, I think (not as powerful as some, but much more flexible than nearly all). It would use the Binder's DCs, which would be vastly superior to any 1-2nd level spell from a regular caster, so they would work much more regularly, and they'd be Supernatural, so no pesky SR issues.

If it were able to mimic higher level spells, I don't think it would fly in any game I've played in (except for one which was so munchkin that it was ridiculous). High DC Grease and free Magic Tatoos are good enough to justify a few levels, I think!
I'd call it woefully underpowered compared to a Wizard based Shadowcraft Mage and almost definitely not worth the investment unless you can mimic higher level spells. Evocation and a handful of Conjuration spells of a level lower than your Wizard will be able to cast once every 5 rounds is NOT all that powerful. In your average adventuring day you'll be able to cast what, 4-5 spells? And you slowed your Binding progression to get this? Big deal. Your wizard will be casting about 20, and they'll be much, much better.
I'd call it woefully underpowered compared to a Wizard based Shadowcraft Mage and almost definitely not worth the investment unless you can mimic higher level spells. Evocation and a handful of Conjuration spells of a level lower than your Wizard will be able to cast once every 5 rounds is NOT all that powerful. In your average adventuring day you'll be able to cast what, 4-5 spells? And you slowed your Binding progression to get this? Big deal. Your wizard will be casting about 20, and they'll be much, much better.

No slowdown of EBL at all (letting +1 arcane spellcasting add +1 EBL instead), and comparing a Binder / ScM to a Wizard / ScM isn't really a fair comparison.
comparing a Binder / ScM to a Wizard / ScM isn't really a fair comparison.

Hence the Binders shadow illusions should scale.
Hence the Binders shadow illusions should scale.

I'm still not really convinced... they'd still have their other Binder goodies. Anyways, since the whole concept is homebrew anyways, anyone could use either one
I just noticed (while still looking for the Binder Epic advancement they were supposed to put out in Dragon 361) that Agares is now an infernal lord... Anyways, here it is (need D&D Insider).

edit: also found Acerak (also need D&D Insider). He's at the end of those PDFs
Okay, some more Savage Tide binder stuff. We've had some scheduling issues so this is the result of a couple of short sessions we had (since we play online, getting to the game isn't a great investment of effort, so we can afford to do some short sessions if people's schedules require it.)

Show

Of course, it doesn't help that not much happened. We got back to town uneventfully with some loot; I swapped my breastplate down/sideways to a chain shirt (Aym is the only vestige that gives medium armor proficiency). We did some nosing around and the changeling wizard did a little incognito spying; our target had fled to a taxidermy guildhall. So it's time for a daring late-night raid! I bound Dahlver-Nar for this purpose.

Our first encounter was with a taxidermist. The factotum sapped him and the wizard hit him in the gut with her quarterstaff, and he folded. We went down into the basement to explore the passages, which were complex, boring, and we didn't find anything except another exit, so we decided to go back and interrogate the taxidermist (I Aided Another the cleric on Intimidate here; I don't have ranks but Cha bonus + Bluff synergy is enough for Aid Another.) He knew a little, but nothing about the contents of the basement.

So, back down we went, and eventually ran across some kind of wolf thing on a bed of bloody hay. The plan was for the factotum, the duskblade, and my binder to surround him, the factotum to coup de grace him, then, if it survived, for him to back off so the duskblade and I would be flanking it. Unfortunately, the duskblade whiffed his Move Silently, decided "the hell with it", popped a Blade of Blood and critted the thing for around 30 damage. The warlock dropped an eldritch blast on it, and it died.

So, yeah. Dahlver-Nar has done all of nothing so far. We'll see how it goes, though!

Oh, and we found a chest with the taxidermist's life savings, but as far as we could tell he just worked there and there's a fine line between "pursuing an investigation" and "armed robbery". So we left it alone.

thats almost exactly what happened with us... i think i had malphus.
I'm starting to lose my faith in baby jesus...
Does Rapid Pact Making remove the need for a Binder to draw the vestige's seal? If it doesn't, the feat doesn't seem to really do much, since one can bind as a full round action at -10 (from p.10, second paragragh, second column).

Also, the very last sentence on p10 seems to contradict the text of the Vestige Phylactery. Can't a Vestige Phylactery essentially expel a vestige, too, if the Binder was at its maximum vestige capacity?

There's also one sentence under the Vestige Phylactery text that is a bit vague: it says that the Binder remains bound based on the time the vestige was bound in the phylactery. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that the Binder remains bound an equal amount of time as the vestige was in the phylactery?

Also, is drawing the seal for a vestige considered a special requirement for that vestige? Does Ignore Special Requirement alleviate the need for a seal?

Complex rule interactions should always be, quite frankly, adjudicated by your Dungeon Master. However there are a few sources beyond the rule books that you and your Dungeon Master can use to determine the most usable and fun solution for your game.

You may want to start by checking out our FAQ and errata documents online at our website.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rules

Many players and Dungeon Masters also read and ask questions on our message boards and chat rooms to discover what other Dungeon Masters have done in similar situations.

http://boards1.wizards.com/community_home.php

Your Dungeon Master is ultimately responsible for deciding how he/she wants to handle any such issue however, and with all the tools currently available it should be relatively easy to adjudicate this matter fairly, as well as in the spirit of making the game as fun as it can be.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!



edit: FINALLY!
I apologize for any misunderstanding.

1. Rapid pact making doesn't actually say how it speeds the process; such a decision in terms of description would be left to your DM. However, it does eliminate the -10 penalty to do the pact as a full round action.

2. The vestige phylactery is a magic item. Often times, magic items are capable of circumventing a number of rules. This is one of those times.

3. The feat Ignore Special Requirement will only apply to whatever's stated in a Vestige's Special Requirement entry. Consequently, you would only be able to skip that portion of the pact if it was mentioned in the Special Requirement entry.

I just noticed an item from Complete Mage that might work with a Binder... what do you guys think?

A rod of shadowblending infuses your normal illusions with shadow, making them partially real. This effect allows you to transform any casting of either minor image or major image into a casting of shadow conjuration, and any casting of major image into shadow evocation.

3/day. Do you guys think the wording is vague enough for Haures's Major Image to work?
I just noticed an item from Complete Mage that might work with a Binder... what do you guys think?

3/day. Do you guys think the wording is vague enough for Haures's Major Image to work?

Rod of Shadowbending; Completel Mage, Page 128

I think the wording was left vague so Warlocks could get use out of it, Because it does not specifically state “spell” anywhere. As such it's looks good to go for Binders as well.

A mini-Shadowcraft Mage in a Rod.
But SLA's and Supernats are not "cast" ... they don't normally fulfill casting requirements for Prestige classes, I don't see how they would work here.

I think if it said "use of" rather than "casting of" it would work... I'd house-rule in favor of it, but I think RAW it would not fly.
Truth does not require Fiction for balance.
But SLA's and Supernats are not "cast" ... they don't normally fulfill casting requirements for Prestige classes, I don't see how they would work here.

I think if it said "use of" rather than "casting of" it would work... I'd house-rule in favor of it, but I think RAW it would not fly.

Heh, says who :D? I don't see a definition for "cast", lol! Anyways, its definitely DM dependent. Since my Binders tend to be very good at being Binders, I don't see a DM I'm playing with letting it work.
Looking up other equipment / enchantments and a few things popped out.

Trying to make use of all those proficiencies which many, many of the vestiges grant. Do these ideas work?

Base item Double-bladed Sword (Or any other doubleweapons):
Make sure one side is master-work at lest, and enchant the other with +1 Morphing. As per the Morphing description from the MIC, when you morph a double weapon, the weapon itself maintains the morphing trait but you can decide between the two heads which enchantments will be active in the new form.
Granted you can only change weapons into other weapons of the same size and type gnome hooked Hammers and Dwarf Urgrosh are two type simotaniously, or any other weapon which does two kinds of damage.


Next idea will take a little doing
Take the Sectioned armour from the Planar handbook, and slap on the Called enchantment for +2000 gp.

Then depending on your proficiencies of the day, you call amount of armour you wish to wear as a standard action, and simply have the rest you aren’t wearing appear at your feet.
Ideally you never want to take off the “Fully Reduced” section because you can sleep in it and never have to worry about where the rest is! Even if someone else is holding the removed section plates it you can still call it.
Although the vestiges do grant weapon proficiencies, I disagree that its necessary to use them. Really, you are tieing yourself to one or two vestiges, and investing heavily in them (I don't like the idea, personally, but if you come up with something great, I'm down). Morphing is a good enchantment for any melee-focused character, though...

The Sectioned armor idea is good, though there's another thing from MIC that lets you sleep in armor.
A new, ToM only basic combo (I think it works):

Marchosias + Malphus + Paimon + haste (boots of speed, etc): You stay invisible for 3 rounds, studying every enemy on the battlefield (I've seen a precedence for this before). Then, you activate the Dance of Death ability, and run through everyone you move past (at 60'), hitting them all with Death Attack (forcing a minimum fort save of 17 with no items and no Cha bonus: likely, it'll be around 27 at this point with no feats invested).

It all depends on whether or not your DM allows you to study more than one person at a time... This is all the FAQ says about it:

What can or can’t an assassin do while studying a
victim for his death attack ability?
The assassin’s death attack indicates that he can undertake
other actions while studying a target. No specific action is
required to maintain the study (for example, it doesn’t require
concentration), although the class feature lists two rather vague
restrictions placed on the 3 rounds of study. Both of these
require DM adjudication.
1. The assassin’s attention must remain focused on the
target. The assassin has to keep his victim in view, but can
perform any other action he wishes (as long as the action
doesn’t break the second restriction). The assassin could even
attack another creature while studying a target!
2. The target may not detect the assassin or recognize him
as a threat. Note that detection isn’t limited to vision only;
being invisible isn’t enough if the target hears the assassin
sneaking up behind him. Similarly, if a hidden assassin cast a
spell that was overheard or otherwise detected by the victim,
the studying would be wasted.

Notice there's no mention of a limit on how many people you can study at once.

Death Attack text for reference:
Death Attack

If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Er... "a target", "a victim". It's always singular. Of course, it doesn't say that it can't be used against multiple creatures, but IMHO this is not a receivable argument. It's probably not an imbalanced houserule though.

Also note the "The assassin’s attention must remain focused on the
target." It seems pretty hard to remain focused enough on 3 creatures (at the same time) that you'll be able to deliver a blow so precise that it will kill them (not a RAW argument this, simply common sense). You're dividing your time so you study each 1 round only.

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
I understand the logic completely; that might be how it was intended.

If my target was "the mayor and his troops" or "that group of Ogre Magi" for example... well, the Engrish / wording breaks down a bit on the mechanical aspects.

I'll just make a note of it neeing DM agreement on the definition of "target" when I update this next.
But SLA's and Supernats are not "cast" ... they don't normally fulfill casting requirements for Prestige classes, I don't see how they would work here.

I think if it said "use of" rather than "casting of" it would work... I'd house-rule in favor of it, but I think RAW it would not fly.

I just noticed on Canibri that one of the granted powers is to cast fireball 3/day. It uses the cast connotation, and yet is a Su power...

So, there's some RAW support for the staff to work with Haures. (Haurus's ability says that it works "as if you had cast Major Image"; its also magical in nature, so... I see a lot of pro arguments.)

edit: and, my DM said its good to go
what is the DC for the death attack from Marchosias ?
what is the DC for the death attack from Marchosias ?

Same as all binder abilities: 1/2 EBL + Cha mod + any other mods. It can hit the 40s easily with items and feats.
For abilities that have no defined save, like Fokalor's lightning Strike, is there a save?

In Fokalor's case, (and I'm going from memory here) I would assume that there is an attack roll of some sort, OR a reflex save...
Truth does not require Fiction for balance.
For abilities that have no defined save, like Fokalor's lightning Strike, is there a save?

In Fokalor's case, (and I'm going from memory here) I would assume that there is an attack roll of some sort, OR a reflex save...

No save unless the ability calls for it. In Focolor's case, yes, Ref 1/2 (mentioned in the ability).
Elan
Druid 1 / Binder 4 / Tenebrous Apostate 4 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 / Monteblank 3 / Devil Major Bloodline 3
Using Druidic Avenger; letting the vestige Tenebrous count for the turn / rebuke requirement

Feats
3 Improved Binding
5b Deceitful
6 Practiced Spellcaster: Druid

I like this build. Can anyone think of a 5 level divine casting class with it's own spell progression (like the Trapsmith from Dungeonscape but a divine class)?

P.S. It's a shame that Gerdreg guy can't log in as Gerdreg anymore, he was the bomb *wink*.
Corrupt Avenger, Death Delver both have pretty good spell lists. I just checked the races, CD, CM, and didn't see anything...

Ardent mixed in with a level of Anima Mage (Psionic adaptation) and a level of another psionic PrC instead of Monteblank can get L6 psionic powers, too, and boost EBL from 21 to 28 (L4 powers and EBL 21 still if Ardent1/Slayer2).
You know what would be messed up? Arcane Variant Swordsage or Spells as Powers Variant Erudite run through Anima Mage.


Plugging a request for help with this [thread=997888]changeling binder[/thread] build again.
Seems I've missed that thread in the working frenzy I've had lately. Looks cool and I'll try to do something about it.
Is it possible or not to make a death attack (from Marchosias and Andromalius for the sneak attack) with the all-around vision (from Geryon) and the whirlwind attack (from Paimon) ?
Is it possible or not to make a death attack (from Marchosias and Andromalius for the sneak attack) with the all-around vision (from Geryon) and the whirlwind attack (from Paimon) ?

TOTALLY up to your DM. Death Attack requires a "Target"; its up to your DM if "Target" is a singular creature or can refer to a group of beings. If he's old-school, he might actually use the player-favored latter, as its more like a 1e Assasin (who made a plan, then the DM determined success or failure, and didn't rely on a single victim).

It can go either way.
I will be getting a chance to play soon so I decided to dust off my last Binder. One of the things I discovered while playing a Binder for awhile is that I frequently (read as almost always) used the same Vestiges. I think this was partly due to laziness as I have the abilities of my favorites memorized and didn't want to spend the time cracking the books while I played. To try and make the most out of the Binder's wonderous versatility this time around, I updated my old cheat sheet with a brief description (just enough that I don't have to open the book every time I choose a different vestige) of the vestige abilities. I am posting it here in case anyone has a use for it. We don't play with campaign specific stuff (so unfortunately no Zceryll for me) or non-splatbook sources (i.e. no Dragon or Dungeon magazine), so please feel free to alter it as you see fit. I tried to use similar termonology for each ability so it would be easy to search for combos (such as making sure both Balam's and Geryon's attacks are listed first as "Gaze attack" or that all skill bonuses say "checks" at the end).

Vestiges

1st Level
Amon – Darkvision (Darkvivion 60 ft.), Fire Breath (10 ft. per EBL (max 50 ft.) line, 1d6 fire damage per EBL, Reflex save vs. half)*, Ram Attack (1d6 + 1½ Strength bonus damage, plus 1d8 on Charge)
Aym - Dwarven Step (can move at normal speed in Medium and Heavy Armor), Halo of Fire (1d6 fire damage when struck in melee, 1d6 fire damage touch attack), Improved Sunder (as Feat), Medium Armor Proficiency (Proficiency with Medium Armor), Resistance to Fire (Resistance to Fire 10), Ruinous Attack (melee attacks deal double damage to objects, melee attacks treated as Adamantine at EBL 10)
Leraje - Hide Bonus (+4 Hide checks), Low-light Vision (as special quality), Precise Shot (as Feat), Ricochet (make single attack against two adjacent targets), Weapon Proficiency (Proficiency with Composite Longbow, Composite Shortbow, Longbow, Shortbow, +1 attack rolls with bows)
Naberius - Disguise Self (as Spell), Faster Ability Healing (1 pt. per round, 1 pt. per hour if Drained), Naberius’s Skills (make skill checks with Con bonus number of untrained Skills), Persuasive Words (as Command spell, as Suggestion spell at EBL 14)*, Silver Tongue (can take 10 on Diplomacy and Bluff checks)
Ronove - Cold Iron and Magic Attacks (melee attacks count as Magic, and Cold Iron at EBL 7), Far Hand (10 ft. per EBL, move object with Strength equal to EBL or Bull Rush with +2 bonus for 1d6 damage)*, Feather Fall (as Spell), Ronove’s Fists (as Improved Unarmed Strike feat plus damage equal to Monk of EBL level), Sprint (+10 ft. land speed)

2nd Level
Dahlver-Nar - Mad Soul (Immunity to Wisdom damage, Wisdom drain, Madness, Insanity, and Confusion), Maddening Moan (30’r, Will save or be Dazed for 1 round)*, Natural Armor (+ ½ Con bonus NA), Shield Self (10 ft. per EBL, share half damage with one creature, Will save)
Haagenti - Confusing Touch (Touch attack, Will save or be Confused for 1 round per 3 EBLs, as Maze spell at EBL 19)*, Immunity to Transformation (Immunity to Polymorph and Petrification), Shield Proficiency (Proficiency with all Shields), Weapon Proficiency (Proficiency with Battleaxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, and Throwing Axe)
Malphas - Bird’s Eye Viewing (Summon Raven plus special), Invisibility (as Spell)*, Poison Use (as Assassin ability), Sudden Strike (as Ninja ability, 1d6 + 1d6 damage per 4 EBLs)
Savnok - Call Armor (Summon magic Full Plate Armor), Heavy Armor Proficiency (Proficiency with Heavy Armor), Move Ally (swap positions with ally within 5 ft. per 2 EBLs)*, Savnok’s Armor (DR 1/ Piercing, +1 per 4 EBLs, DR becomes Magic and Piercing at EBL 13)

3rd Level
Andromalius - Jester’s Mirth (as Tasha’s Hideous Laughter spell, additional save at end of each turn)*, Locate Item (sense object within 100 ft.), See the Unseen (as See Invisibility spell), Sense Trickery (+4 Sense Motive, Appraise, and Spot checks to oppose Disguise, automatically notice Sleight of Hand attempts), Sneak Attack (as Rogue ability, 2d6 + 1d6 damage per 5 EBLs beyond 5th)
Focalor - Aura of Sadness (-2 attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks), Focalor’s Breath (30 ft., Fortitude save or be Blinded for 1 round)*, Lightning Strike (10 ft. per EBL, 3d6 electricity damage + 1d6 per 3 EBLs beyond 5th, Reflex save vs. half), Water Breathing (can breath water)
Karsus - Heavy Magic (+2 Magic Item save DCs), Karsus’s Senses (as Detect Magic spell plus special), Karsus’s Touch (as Dispel Magic spell, Touch attack, EBL times per day)*, Karsus’s Will (use items as Wizard of EBL level)
Paimon - Dance of Death (move and attack each creature you pass once)*, Paimon’s Blades (Proficiency with Rapier and Short Sword, as Weapon Finesse feat), Paimon’s Dexterity (+4 Dexterity), Paimon’s Skills (+4 Tumble and Perform (Dance) checks), Uncanny Dodge (as Rogue ability), Whirlwind Attack (as Feat)

4th Level
Agares - Earth and Air Mastery (+1 attack and damage rolls against foes on ground, -1 attack and damage rolls from airborne foes), Earthshaking Step (10’r, Reflex save or fall prone)*, Elemental Companion (Summon Earth Elemental), Fear Immunity (Immunity to Fear), True Speech (speak, understand, read, and write all languages of creatures within 30 ft.)
Andras - Weapon Proficiency (Proficiency with Greatsword, Lance, Longsword and Rapier), Mount (Summon Heavy Warhorse, one hour per EBL, once per day), Saddle Sure (+8 Ride checks), Smite Good or Evil (Smite Good or Evil)*, Sow Discord (5 ft. per 2 EBL, Will save or attack random ally)*, Sure Blows (as Improved Critical Feat, +4 roll to confirm)
Buer - Buer’s Knowledge (+4 Heal, Knowledge (Nature), and Survival checks), Buer’s Purity (Immunity to Disease and Poison), Delay Diseases and Poisons (30’r, temporary Immunity to Disease and Poison), Fast Healing (Fast Healing 1, +1 at 10, 13, 16, and 19), Healing Gift (Heal 1 pt., Heal 1d8 + EBL (max 10))*, Track (as Feat)
Eurynome - Animal Friend (all Animals are friendly, Damage Reduction (DR 2/ Lawful), Eurynome’s Maul (Summon Large magic Warhammer), Poison Blood (Fortitude save or take 1d6 damage + 1d6 per 3 EBLs (max 5d6)), Water Dancing (as Water Walk spell)
Tenebrous - Deeper Darkness (as Spell, centered on you, unlimited duration, shift range), See in Darkness (can see normally in Darkness), Touch of the Void (charge melee attack with 1d8 cold damage + 1d8 per 4 EBLs beyond 7th)*, Turn/ Rebuke Undead (as Cleric ability)*, Vessel of Emptiness (as Flicker mystery once per day plus once per day at EBL 13 and 19)
Arete (Mind’s Eye WotC article) – Psionic Boon (13 Power Points), Resistance (+4 to one save of choice), Damage Reduction (DR 5/ -), Repletion (Body Adjustment, Body Purification, and Sustenance powers)
Astaroth (Cityscape Web Enhancement) - Angelic Lore (as Bardic Knowledge ability), Astaroth's Breath (60 ft. Cone, Fortitude save or be Nauseated for 1 round plus Sickened for 1d4 rounds, only sickened for 1 round if save)*, Honeyed Tongue (+4 Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks), Master Craftsman (+4 Craft checks, one item creation Feat), Word of Astaroth (as Suggestion spell, only Cha bonus number of people at a time)*

5th Level
Acererak - Detect Undead (as Spell), Hide from Undead (as Spell), Lich’s Energy Immunities (Immunity to Cold and Electricity), Paralyzing Touch (Fortitude save or be Paralyzed for ½ EBL rounds)*, Speak with Dead (as Spell), Undead Healing (as Undead)
Balam - Balam’s Cunning (reroll one attack, saving throw, or skill check)*, Icy Glare (Gaze attack, 2d6 cold damage, Will save), Prescience (+1 Initiative, Reflex, and AC per 4 EBLs), Weapon Finesse (as Feat)
Dantalion - Awe of Dantalion (creatures unable to attack you for 1 round)*, Dantalion Knows (+8 Knowledge checks), Read Thoughts (read surface thoughts of creature, 5 ft. per EBL, Will save), Thought Travel (Teleport 5 ft. per EBL, EBL times per day)*
Geryon - Acidic Gaze (Gaze attack, 2d6 acid damage, Will save), All-Around Vision (+4 Spot and Search checks, cannot be Flanked), See in Darkness (can see normally in Darkness), Swift Flight (can Fly 60 ft. for 1 round)*
Otiax - Air Blast (10 ft., Touch attack, 2d6 damage), Combat Reflexes (as Feat), Concealing Mist (20% miss chance), Open Portal (as Open/ Close spell, 10 ft. per EBL), Unlock (open lock with DC less than twice EBL)*

6th Level
Chupoclops - Aura of Despair (10’r, -2 attack rolls, checks, saves, and damage rolls), Ethereal Watcher (as Ethereal Jaunt spell, cannot take actions)*, Ghost Touch (can attack incorporeal creatures normally in melee), Poison Bite (Bite attack), Pounce (can make Full Attack on Charge), Soul Sense (10 ft. Blindsense against living creatures plus Deathwatch as spell)
Haures - Inaccessible Mind (Immunity to all Mind-affecting Spells and Abilities as Mind Blank spell), Incorporeal Movement (partially Incorporeal while Moving), Major Image (as Spell, only one at a time)*, Phantasmal Killer (as Spell, 10 ft. per EBL)*
Ipos - Cold Iron Claws (Claw attack, treated as Cold Iron), Flash of Insight (as True Seeing spell for 1 round)*, Ipos’s Influence (+1 save DCs and EBL), Planar Attenuation (protection from the natural effects of a chosen plane), Rend (as special quality)
Shax - Freedom of Movement (as Spell, for 1 round)*, Immunity to Electricity (Immunity to Electricity), Storm Strike (charge melee attack with 1d6 electricity and 1d6 sonic damage), Swim Speed (gain Swim speed equal to land speed, +8 Swim checks, can take 10 on Swim checks)
Zagan – Aversion (30 ft., Will save or must stay at least 20 ft. away from you, snakes, and yuan-ti for 5 rounds, -4 Dexterity, as Aversion spell)*, Improved Grapple (as Improved Grapple feat, as Large size), Scent (as Scent special quality), Constrict (1d8 + 1½ Strength bonus damage plus normal unarmed damage with successful Grapple check), Snake Bane (+2 attack and +2d6 damage with melee attacks against snakes, snakelike creatures, and creatures with a natural poison attack)
Vanus (Design and Development WotC article) - Fear Aura (10’r, Will save or be Shaken or Frightened for ½ EBL rounds), Free Ally (Freedom of Movement, Gaseous Form, or free from Imprisonment)*, Noble Disdain (+1d6 damage against foes with less HD), Vanus’s Ears (+5 Listen checks, +10 vs. Evil)
The Triad (Mind’s Eye WotC article) – Psionic Boon (15 Power Points), Call to Mind (as Power), Psicraft Bonus (+5 Psicraft checks), Bardic Knowledge (as Bard ability), Empathy (as Power), Diplomacy Bonus (+5 Diplomacy checks), Smite Evil (as Paladin ability)*, Detect Hostile Intent (as Power), Sense Motive Bonus (+5 Sense Motive checks), Weapon Proficiency (Proficiency with all weapons)
Desharis (Cityscape Web Enhancement) - City Dweller (normal Movement Rate through crowds, +6 Gather Information and Knowledge (Local) checks), Infinite Doors (once per day, Teleport 3000 yards through similar doorway), Language of the City (as Tongues spell), Smite Natural Soul (Smite Animal, Elemental, Fey, or Plant)*, Spirits of the City (as Animate Objects spell, only one use at a time)*

7th Level
Eligor - Chromatic Strike (charge melee attack with 1d6 acid, cold, electricity or fire damage), Eligor’s Skill in the Saddle (as Ride by Attack and Spirited Charge Feats), Eligor’s Strength (+4 Strength), Eligor’s Resilience (+3 NA, +1 at EBL 16 and 20), Heavy Armor Proficiency (Proficiency with Heavy Armor)
Marchosias - Death Attack (as Assassin ability), Fiery Retribution (+3d6 damage against opponents with Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, or Skirmish), Smoke Form (as Gaseous Form spell, unlimited duration)*, Silent and Sure (+16 Hide and Move Silently checks)

8th Level
Ashardalon (Dragon Magic) - Ashardalon's Greed (+EBL Appraise and Search, Locate Object as spell), Ashardalon's Presence (as Fear spell)*, Ashardalon's Vigor (+EBLx2 Hit Points), Fiend's Heart (DR 10/ Cold Iron, Resistance to Fire 30)
Halphax - Damage Reduction (DR 10/ Adamantine), Halphax’s Knowledge (+16 Profession (Siege Engineer) and Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks), Imprison (Touch attack, as Imprisonment spell, lasts for EBL rounds), Iron Wall (as Wall of Iron spell, lasts 1 minute)*, Secure Shelter (as Leomund’s Secure Shelter spell, within 60 ft.)*
Orthos – Blindsight (Blindsight 30 ft.), Displacement (50% miss chance), Whirlwind Breath (30 ft. Cone, 1d6 damage per EBL, Reflex save vs. half, Fortitude save or be knocked prone and moved 1d4x10 ft. away)*, Whispering Wind (as Spell)
Abysm (Mind’s Eye WotC article) - Psionic Boon (21 Power Points), Overpower (Read Thoughts, Animal Affinity, Energy Missile, Psionic Levitate, Clairvoyant Sense, and Astral Construct powers)

* Useable once every 5 rounds

Damnit, where were you when I was making up my vestige Cards?

Good work anyway!
OK, here's something:

Malphus's Bird's-Eye-Viewing + Brilliant Energy Bow: use the bird to scout the dungeon, shoot an arrow through the walls to hit the enemies. Simple as that.

Now, that's a +4 weapon, 32k gp, which means you won't get it until you have multiple vestiges: combine with Leraje to hit two monsters at once, or (eventually) Marchosias to force Fort saves due to assasination (needs to be combined Sniper's Shot for effectiveness; check out the Lady of the Green PrC for that).

Yes, I've said it before, I'll say it again: Binders ARE the best characters for World's Largest Dungeon!
Funny, I had never noticed/realized Brilliant Energy weapons could cross walls.

Anyway, Brilliant Energy can't be applied to bows, only to arrows ; since this use is situational, it would probably be better to use the SC spells that make a weapon BE for a short while. Nice idea, jwm !

OoP's characters
My current character in Real Adventures Play-by-Post games:

 

  • Maeve in The Lost History of Istar


 
I don't have an Ur-Priest build up yet, so thought I'd put one down.

Binder 4 / Tenebrous Apostate 1 / Ur-Priest (Dead God Adaptation) 1 / Tenebrous Apostate +3 / Anima Mage (Divine Adaptation) 9 / KoSS 1

18 levels of Binding, 9th level divine spells, lots of free metamagics. I couldn't really decide if those last couple of Anima Mage abilities was worth it, but I'm not really losing that much.



I also don't have a Sublime Chord build up... Here's a funky one...

Bard 1 / Binder 4 / Trapsmith 3 / Anima Mage 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Anima Mage +8

Requires Able Learner, Shape Soulmeld, and Open Least Chakra, but otherwise has L5 Trapsmith spells, L10 SC casting, L14 Binding.


I'm looking for ideas for some Incarnum multi-class builds. Gestalt is easy; I'm looking for single-class.
Edit: sorry did my math wrong thanks highbulp 101270 still a lot of freaking choices
i don't know if somebody already posted this but i did some calculations for the amount of different combos you could have at LVL 20 and being able to bind 4 Vestiges. with 41 different vestiges we are looking at 2,825,761 different combinations if my math is right

41 choose 4 (ie, how many ways there are to pick 4 elements from a set of 41).
nCr(41,4) = 41!/((41-4)!*4!) = 101270. So not quite as many as you were thinking (are you sure you didn't count binding the same vestige twice?)
41 choose 4 (ie, how many ways there are to pick 4 elements from a set of 41).
nCr(41,4) = 41!/((41-4)!*4!) = 101270. So not quite as many as you were thinking (are you sure you didn't count binding the same vestige twice?)

Extremely simple to play at low level, ridiculously complex at high. Yup!

Still, not as many combinations as with incarnum... but incarnum is at least intuitive.
Andras+Chupoclops+Eligor + the right feats = the binder is a better paladin than the paladin

I should really play a paladin 1/ binder4/KotSS 5 (Andras)/ binder 10 with the heresy variant rule and awesome smite/leap attack/shock trooper. Sigh.
Sign In to post comments