Consolidated Binder Handbook

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The newest vestiges have been added to the main list by level, but I don't have time to subdivide the abilities by "role" if someone would like to do that.
I was looking at this forum intending to play a binder in a campaign a friend of mine is running soon. Nice stuff, saw an issue I "thought" I might be able to add an intelligent comment too (no luck there, read below).
Sorry to bring up a post thats a few months old, but I could have sworn it was in fact stated officially somewhere that "temporary" abilities granted by outside sources can't qualify you for feats and prestige classes. (Reference, post link below)

http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D11326619%26postcount%3D181

Only thing I have been able to find so far is this;

D&D FAQ v.3.5 39 Update Version: 06/15/07
A feat sometimes requires you to have a certain ability
score, which is the case with Two-Weapon Fighting (it
requires Dex 15). A character has, say, Dex 13, but wears
an item, in this case gloves of Dexterity +2, and now her Dex
score is 15. Can she take the feat and have it be active only
when she wears the item?

Actually yes, she could take the feat, but she would lose the
use of the feat if, for whatever reason, she loses the bonus from
the item.

page 38 and 39 on the 3.5 Main FAQ.

Magic Items are only slightly different from something resulting from effectively a long duration spell, but someone could extapolate from this to imply that vestiges could qualify you for a number of things.

Honestly, I would normally be inclined to side with intention on this, esp since I always thought that Customer Services answer was the case, and could have sworn it was in something like the Dungeon Master's Guide. If a player were to argue with me enough about it, I would just say "ok, but you cannot use the class abilities unless you are bound to a vestige that gave you 'x' ability"

I am going to keep looking periodically to see where it was actually stated in a book, but it probably will take while to find it. I was able to find this answer in probably 15 minutes of looking through the FAQ (which is where I *thought* Cust Serv's first answer had been originally stated).
Not sure if discussion on the subject of Tenebrous's Turn/Rebuke Undead being used for Divine Feats is still relevant, however...

Page 65 of Tome of Magic, Tenebrous Apostate, the ability Tenebrous's Rebuke has a line that reads, "You can still use these turn attempts in conjunction with Divine feats, as normal." This would appear to be the only statement on the matter one way or another in the book, and it reads as an OK to use Tenebrous's Turn/Rebuke Undead to power Divine Feats and other uses of Positive / Negative Energy Channeling as if it were a class-granted ability.
In the case of the Tenebrous Apostate, with the Eternal Bondage class feature, that would be considered a permanent ability, and under the 'intent' of the designers would definatly qualify the character for feats and other prestige classes. Any character taking the class should also have turn/rebuke undead from other class level.

Still looking for the text that would effectively say that ordinary binders couldnt use Tenebrous to qualify for feats like Divine Wrath, Divine Shield, Etc.

I have to agree that Tenebrous in conjunction with the Domain Blessings is definatly broken. Even an ordinary binder could exploit that for unlimted uses per day.
bah, double post, rest of text deleted
Not sure if discussion on the subject of Tenebrous's Turn/Rebuke Undead being used for Divine Feats is still relevant, however...

Page 65 of Tome of Magic, Tenebrous Apostate, the ability Tenebrous's Rebuke has a line that reads, "You can still use these turn attempts in conjunction with Divine feats, as normal." This would appear to be the only statement on the matter one way or another in the book, and it reads as an OK to use Tenebrous's Turn/Rebuke Undead to power Divine Feats and other uses of Positive / Negative Energy Channeling as if it were a class-granted ability.

Well its worth mentioning that it says you can use them to power divine feats not that you can use it to qualify for divine feats.
I haven't lost my mind I've simply misplaced it
It might also be noted that Zceryll is a very nice choice as patron vestige for KotSS.
It might also be noted that Zceryll is a very nice choice as patron vestige for KotSS.

I have been playing Binder for a while now and just started my prestige, KotSS. I am a 9/1 Binder/KotSS. I haven't had a chance to delve into KotSS but think it will go well with my party.

I was wondering about some of the magic items. I have 2 of the Teeth of Dahlver-Nar. I have the Tooth of Focalor and wondered if I could get another one and have lightening strike 2X a day instead of once a day? Can I get 32 Teeth of Dahlver-Nar and some of them duplicates?
Using the vestiges above, Trillith is a monster. With Otiax, Tenebrous, and Shax, he can make melee touch attacks that deal 4d6+1d8 points of various elemental damages four times every round.

Sorry but I don't think it works like you write on...

The problem is that you can take only a single swift action for a round

Let's see an example to be more explicit...
binder 15, Kotss 5: binded with orthos (favored) otiax, tenebrous and shax
1°round:
Standard/move actions: anything you want
swift action: touch of the void (tenebrous), once/5 rounds!

2°round:
Swift action:storm strike (shax)
reading well, we see we can improve only one single attack with storm strike! Not all the four we have...
Full attack (4)
1: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6 + Storm strike 2d6 + touch of the void 4d8
2: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6 + Touch of the void 4d8
3: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6 + Touch of the void 4d8
4: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6 + Touch of the void 4d8

3° round
Swift action:storm strike (shax)
Full attack (4)
1: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6 + Storm strike 2d6
2: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6
3: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6
4: Air Blast (Otiax) 2d6

4°, 5° round as the 3°

6° round as the 1°

7° round as the 2°, and so on...

Well, at the end it's however good, but not so powerful as you have written

PS: What I've said have a sense only if Stom strike (shax) functions for one single attack in the round... On the other hand, excuse me for my mistake (even if I'm sure about Tenebrous' touch of void once/5 rounds. If you want to use it, you have to stop with Storm strike for a round, because you've only 1 swift action for round...)

EDIT: Another doubt... w/ your feats, you can choose improved critical (touch spells) (as you indicate) and also weapon focus (touch spells), as prerequisite for KOTSS... But, can the binder's supernatural abilities be considered as spells (because they aren't spells...) to receive the benefits of these feats?
Thanks for your answers! ;)
Probably well known, but not in the guide... Hellbred (from Fiendish Compendium II) are a good race for binders... not only well fitting the 'willing to work through forbidden means to further good' motive that fit Binder heros well but also a +2 charisma race with actually useful traits.

Incidentally... any +0 LA races with +Cha that don't take a Con hit??
According to [thread=697653]this[/thread], only the Lesser Aasimar.
Hello, i never played with binder before...

Someone can teach me where is all vestges statistics(char sheets)?

Who control the summoned vestige, the DM or player?

I want to do a binder to lv17, and i want to know what are the best feats to choice

thank you
Hello, i never played with binder before...

Someone can teach me where is all vestges statistics(char sheets)?

Who control the summoned vestige, the DM or player?

I want to do a binder to lv17, and i want to know what are the best feats to choice

thank you

Vestiges have no statistics, they only semi-exist. The only time they might interact with a party (barring DM plot device) is when a Binder chooses to bind one. When this happens, the DM can roleplay the vestige or simply let the binder make a roll (rollplay) and ignore the roleplaying aspects of making an agreement. Since vestiges do not exist in the normal sense, they can only speak, grant the binder his powers, and create some nifty special effects while being summoned by the binder (within the summoning circle only).

The binder controls the powers granted by the vestige, but if they fail the binding roll, they are expected to roleplay some quirk (indicated in the vestiges description). If the player refuse to roleplay per the rules, a DM may take the character over; this is generally a bad idea though, better to talk to the player and get the player to roleplay correctly.

Go to the 1st page of this handbook to look up the best feats, prestige classes, etc. The best feats will generally depend on the contents of the rest of the party.
If the player refuse to roleplay per the rules, a DM may take the character over; this is generally a bad idea though, better to talk to the player and get the player to roleplay correctly.

Not so: the binder gets a -1 to attack, saves, and checks if he doesn't make the Influence requirement. Its cumulative, though, until the Binder expels the vestige.
sCRuLooSe

i friend of mine said that you can summon a vestige in current plane, with binder lv/rounds, but you can't bind with any vesige until 24 hours that you summoned the vestige.

he told me that have somewhere in wizards community, vestiges statics and he used...i don't know how, but i saw he using a summoned vestige when he was DM(in eberron), and using real statistics(the amon fighted with lich)...
Some vestiges are based on some popular DnD figures/deities/mythos. For example, Geryon, Tenebrous all had statistics at some point in the past (and were gods/demon princes, etc). BUT, vestiges are NOT truly summoned... in fact, even when binding them, they aren't real. There is no binder lv/rounds thing... your friend is confusing a few different mechanics from unrelated material to Binders.

You really need to check out ToMagic and read the first chapter on the class. What you are describing reminds me of a person trying to play a Wizard w/o ever reading PHB or SRD.
Not so: the binder gets a -1 to attack, saves, and checks if he doesn't make the Influence requirement. Its cumulative, though, until the Binder expels the vestige.

I stand corrected.

sCRuLooSe

i friend of mine said that you can summon a vestige in current plane, with binder lv/rounds, but you can't bind with any vesige until 24 hours that you summoned the vestige.

he told me that have somewhere in wizards community, vestiges statics and he used...i don't know how, but i saw he using a summoned vestige when he was DM(in eberron), and using real statistics(the amon fighted with lich)...

A vestige is summoned once per 24 hours. It takes a few minutes to set up the summons unless you use feats/magic items to speed the process up. Many of the binders powers can only be used once every 5 rounds, and binder level determines if you need to roleplay the quirk I mentioned earlier, how powerful the powers you gain are, and which vestiges you can use. However, there are no 1rd/lvl effects that I can think of.

As Jameswilliamogle stated, vestiges are not truly summoned. The fluff in ToM suggests that all vestiges, regardless of whether they once has statistics, no longer exist in the material plane. Karsus, for example, tried to become a deity in the Forgotten Realms setting and in the attempt destroyed himself (rather than unravel all magic). Enough of his essence (a shadow of his former existance) remains to grant powers, but he has no statistics, form, and is never actually summoned.

If you want to actually summon things instead of gain power sets, I would suggest the malconvoker (look up the malconvoker handbook on this forum). If you want to summon things and use the Tome of Magic, try the fiendbinder prestige class in the truenamer section.
Thank you guys!

i will research about binder and the many possibilities to do a good character
A useful combo I just realized is:

Favored Vestige(Zceryll)+Ipos Influence = Summon Monster spells 2 levels early. At BL 12, you could be summoning creatures off of the SMVII list. This is not game breaking, but very very useful.

Getting the Colossal Spider at lvl 16 is rather game breaking, +50 grapple for the win!

Getting the Avoral at lvl 12 sounds good to me!

In your face Arcane/Divine Summoners!
Another thought came to mind as I was browsing Tome of Magic.

Otiax+Paimon+Tenebrous. Combine Whirlwind Attack and Dance of Death with Otiax's Air Blast to stay out of reach. This would allow the Binder to avoid worrying about AoO while dancing around enemies. Using Whirlwind Attack and Air Blast, you could hit everyone within 10ft with a 2d6 damage touch attack (combine with Tenebrous for 4d8 cold). The Binder would also be protected by two separate miss chances, each at 20%. At higher levels, miss chance > AC. Add to this Improved Trip (taken normally) and the Combat Reflexes feat from Otiax (improved by Paimon's +4 Dex), and you have a Binder version of the Spiked Chain tripper.

Another option would be to toss in Aym for another 1d6 fire damage/touch attack.

You could then toss in Geryon for 2d6 damage/round gaze. Geryon will also make it so all those enemies you just beat up can't flank you.
Report from the trenches:
I just finished playing a one-shot adventure with a Zceryll-based KotSS, and the implications of the Summon (basically) at will are huge, especially out of combat.
Where a normal summoning specialist will still have a limited supply of summons, and therefore be somewhat reserved about summoning, a Zceryll-bound Binder can summon lackeys to do anything. Using Djinn for transport (Plane Shift, Wind Walk) or food and materials (Create Food and Drink, Create Wine, Major Creation); Celestials for healing or other spell-like abilities, elementals for scouting... the possibilities are endless, especially since you get Telepathy as a freebie aswell.
Basically, it's all the tricks of the dedicated Summoner times ten since you don't run out of spells.
Ya, Zceryll seems like one of the most powerful lvl6 options available to a Binder (level 6 vestiges are just all round mega sexy at it is). Summoning all day long, scaling DR/SR/Resistances, telepathy (with mindsight), and a dazing bolt. Just awesome.
Zceryll is, as we in the profession of Science call it technically, crazy-good. Once you're able to bind her, there are very few situations under which you would want to swap her out. If it came down somehow to choosing between having Zceryll bound and having one of the level 8 vestiges bound, I would probably choose Zceryll every time.
I was reading some of the original posts I wrote when I had an idea: what do you folks think about a Vow of Poverty Binder?

You could use Savnok for awesome armor capability, Ronove for damage output OR use Andras, et al, for more stuff, and could fill all the weird "niche" roles the Binder can put out.

Here's the thing: if the "summonable equipment" has any worth, than sure, you can't use it, but also you can now sell it in an infinite cash loop.
A VoP binder could indeed be powerful. Said binder could, like you mentioned, use Savnok for armor. He could also use Euryenome for a weapon (though she pretty much blows). There are many options available to a binder that don't involve having gear.

I'm not a big fan of VoP in general, I don't like the role-playing restrictions (you have to be SO freak'n good!)
I just noticed Zceryll makes you an outsider. I'm sure that's just a natural lead-in to anima mage and polymorph tricks.
I just noticed Zceryll makes you an outsider. I'm sure that's just a natural lead-in to anima mage and polymorph tricks.

Absolutely, but you don't need Anima Mage: Karsus + Zecyryll + Wand of Polymorph (or Alter Self) = all the outsider tricks out there!
Very nice ideas

I always wanted to play an anima mage, but actually we are at lvl. 18 in our campaign, and I can't find any possible way of getting access to 8th level spells and the ability to bind up to 3 vestiges at once before lvl. 19...or is there any such possibility?
Would like to make my ghostform spell persitent and bind vestiges like Acererak, Balam and Tenebrous...

Was it mentioned before that it is possible to enter the Anima Magus PrC at 4th level?
I thought of following build...

Human:
1: Wizard; Precocious Apprentice, (METAMAGIC FEAT)
2: Wizard;
3: Binder; Improved Binding

I think this should allow you to enter this PrC already at 4th level...what do you think about?
That build looks fine to me. Looks to meet all the requirements.
I thought the good thing about Anima Mage was that you could enter as a pure Wizard, by taking Bind Vestige and Improved Bind Vestige feats? Then the Soul Binding of the Anima Mage would get you up to 10th level binding powers as a Binder?

But the Tome of Magic is not my strong point.
If you did that you wouldn't get the binding that comes with it.

You can, however, enter with a one level dip into Binder and Improved Binding, which gets you a lot more.

JaronK
I'm currently working on a 9th level Binder / KotSS for an upcoming game, and I'm trying to decide on a patron vestige. For flavor/narrative reasons, I don't want to put off KotSS until I can bind 6th level vestiges, so maximum level is 5th.

I'm currently having trouble deciding between Andras (though we already have a mounted charger), Paimon, Balam, and Dantalion (possibly taking levels in Scion). I'm kind of leaning towards either Andras or Paimon, since dropping out of Binder at level 6 seems better than dropping out at level 7 (which is only a +1 BAB).

Paimon seems to be a little more helpful for non-combat situations, except that I don't understand the draw of his Dance of Death ability (it's listed as a win choice for KotSS in the handbook). Isn't it basically just Spring Attack but without the ability to avoid AoOs?

Any thoughts? Is it worth taking that 7th level of Binder for a 9th level character in order to get someone super-cool like Balam as a patron vestige?

Thanks.



Also, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet (I didn't see it in the thread), but a 1-level dip into Warblade seems like a great idea with a KotSS. Not only do you get a few maneuvers to play with, but Weapon Aptitude goes wonderfully with the Weapon Focus requirement. If you happen to have a decent intelligence you can help your worst save (Ref) as well.
Kind of resurrecting this a bit...

Does anyone have any idea to get the most use out of Ronove's Far Hand ability? What would people use it for? My thought was to carry stronger cure potions, in case the Cleric got tied up, but can anyone think of any other? Dropping potions of Alchemists Fire (how would that work, anyways)?


Also, another combo (kind of obvious now, after DFA Handbook was written), for the Arcanist / Nuker section:

1 [Amon] + Dragonborn (Heart aspect) + metabreath feats: Many DMs don't allow players to select feats based on temporarily gained prerequisites. Being a Dragonborn allows you to pick up a natural breath weapon and qualify for the metabreath feats. My picks would be Shape Breath, Clinging Breath, Quicken Breath, and Maximize Breath (Heighten Breath, while good, is overkill, imo). Entangling Exhalation is nice to use on your Dragonborn Breath Weapon. A single level of Dragonfire Adept can grant your party immunity to your breath weapon (and give ANOTHER breath weapon). Combining with Anima Mage can get you some very nice breath weapon requiring spells. Also, RAW, the metabreath feats say that you add rounds until your next breath weapon attack, but it doesn't say WHICH breath weapon (add the rounds to your weakest breath weapon ;)).
Paimon seems to be a little more helpful for non-combat situations, except that I don't understand the draw of his Dance of Death ability (it's listed as a win choice for KotSS in the handbook). Isn't it basically just Spring Attack but without the ability to avoid AoOs?

This is a really old question, but I'll answer anyways: Dance of Death isn't just Spring Attack: its like the Whirling Dervish's dance ability. You attack EVERYONE you move past!
This is a really old question, but I'll answer anyways: Dance of Death isn't just Spring Attack: its like the Whirling Dervish's dance ability. You attack EVERYONE you move past!

I figured that out eventually. The problem was that it says "any opponent" you move past, which I took to mean "any single opponent." If it had said "all opponents," I would have got it. I guess it was just my brain finding weird connotations. Thanks though!
I'm fortunate to be playing in a game as a Binder and with a player playing a Warblade. I thought of a new combo, which may or may not be that good, but is kind of interesting.

12,15,20 [Chupoclops] + [Andromalus] + [Malphus] + [Leraje] + Martial Study: Fan the Flames + Swordsage levels: Its kind of high-level, due to the Martial Study being 1/2 your level, but when you get it, you approach your enemy while invisible, then you make a flat-footed touch ranged attack from 30' away, add 6d6 + sneak attack + sudden strike damage, using Leraje's Ricochet Strike to do 6d6 damage to an adjacent target. You then go ethereal w/ Chupoclops's Ethereal Watcher as a move action and can do whatever you want after that. At the cost of a 4th vestige, you could skip the feat investment, and instead just pick up some Swordsage or Warblade levels. Then, you can just repeat this technique all day long!

edit: Instead of continuing to bump this thread, I'll just keep adding on this last post.

for the advice section:
- You only need to flank a creature for Sneak Attack, meaning Zceryl and Agares automatically can combine w/ Andromallus for some nice immediate damage.

- By the time you can bind him, Zceryl summons at least Summon Monster 5 creatures. Fiendish Pseudonatural Giant Crocodile has a great grapple modifier, for example, rendering many creatures flatfooted. The large selection of monsters means you can pick and choose the best monsters to attack any given foe, and the Pseudonatural template means that you'll get at least one almost guaranteed hit in, if you want it.

- Maximizing Bluff and Diplomacy at 1st level and combining with Naberius lets you pull some shenanigans the likes of which are usually reserved for Bards with Glibness.

- Although the damage output at low-level sucks, Ronove at mid-to-high levels, along with Zagan, can turn your Binder into a virtuo-monk, except capable of helping the party!

- Never forget that you can use Supernatural abilities under almost any conditions (as long as you are awake). Consider grappling enemies to disable them before using abilities against a non-disabled foe.
So, didn't want to start a thread about this one, but here's a build for you. Improvements welcome


The Boltthrower

Strongheart Halfling Warblade 1/Binder 3/Scout 16

4W6 Skirmish / +4(6)AC
BaB 15
40 ft. Movement
Stats(32 Point Buy):

Str: 15
Dex: 16 +4 Level +5 Tome + 5 Wishes + 4 Paimon + 2 Race + 6 Item = 42
Con: 15 +1 Level
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

Attack Bonus:
15(BaB) + 16(Dex) +1(Small) +1(WF) +5(GMW) = 38

Damage: 1w3+13 with GMW

Feats:
Bonus: Improved Binding
Scout5: Point Blank Shot
Scout8: Precise Shot
Scout12: Ranged Disarm
Scout16: Penetrating Shot
1:EWP (Hand Crossbow)
3:WF(Hand Crossbow)
6:Rapid Reload (Not needed if you have Quick Loading Hand Crossbows) - Good Choice would be Improved Skirmish
9:Crossbow Sniper
12:Two Weapon Fighting
15:Improved Two Weapon Fighting
18:Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Weapons of Choice:
2 +1 Quick Loading Splitting Hand Crossbows

Initiator Level 10 (Level 5 Maneuvers)

Vestige Bound: Paimon
Key Maneuvers:
Press the Advantage (Stance - 10ft Step instead of 5ft step.)
Absolute Steel Stance (Stance - +10ft Movement, +2 Skirmish AC)
Fill your Maneuvers with nice Boots and Counters.

This Build aims for (at least) 6 ranged Skirmishes each round (without magic), since via Press the Advantage you can move 10ft per round and still make a Full attack.
Paimon gives nice Bonuses for this build, +4 Dex is always good,uncanny dodge too and Dance of Death (by RAW nothing prevents you from using it with ranged weapons) lets you shoot every enemy we run past every 5 rounds.
Per Crossbos Sniper we add half of our Dex-Bonus to Damage and can Skirmish for 4d6 up to 60 ft range.
We also ignore difficult Terrain, so the 10ft. step is almost guaranteed.

Basically, we have in the end several options of dealing damage:

1. Dance of Death + Absolute Steel Stance
Running past Enemys using our good movement, we can skirmish everyone we run past. Very good vs. many Targets that are not too far away.
2. Press the Advantage + Full Attack
6 Attacks without Speed/Haste/Splitting, all + 4d6 skirmish. Nice vs. few Enemies
3. Penetrating Shot
I don't exaclty know if you can do that twice a round with two hand crossbows.
Nevertheless, in circumstances where a lot of enemies stand in 1(2) line(es), use it.
4.Ranged Disarm
Use with any tactic above if needed.

If pressed into melee, grab two Short Swords, with GTWF and Weapon Finesse(Paimon) you will still hit something.

+a lot of skill points and scouting potential (Small, Skills)


If anyone has some Ideas for Maneuvers or different Feats, tell me. I'm losing the outline over all the published material. ;)
...nice build...
If anyone has some Ideas for Maneuvers or different Feats, tell me. I'm losing the outline over all the published material. ;)

I would definitely switch at least 2 levels of Scout w/ 2 levels of Swordsage, on top of the Warblade maneuvers. The main reason is that, although Paimon allows you to make a lot of attacks, you don't actually do that much damage per attack. Swordsage 2 gets you the nice added fire-damage, Assasin's Stance, and Shadow Blade (as a feat), greatly enhancing your damage per hit. I also think you have too many Scout levels, personally: I don't like more than 5, myself. More Warblade would be better, although I realize you have favorite class issues.

Warblade doesn't really synergize all that well w/ the Binder 3 / Scout Motif - I think you'd be much better w/ Swordsage boosts from Desert Wind. The BAB loss isn't really desirable... I dunno...

What about:
Factotum 8 / Binder 3 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 / Swordsage 4?
Improved Binding, Shadow Blade, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Font of Inspiration X 4?
Tons of extra Standard Actions, 2 Vestiges (Paimon + Orthos), tons of maneuvers, sneak attack as needed, Pact Augmentation, +16 BAB?
What about:
Factotum 8 / Binder 3 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 / Swordsage 4?
Improved Binding, Shadow Blade, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Font of Inspiration X 4?
Tons of extra Standard Actions, 2 Vestiges (Paimon + Orthos), tons of maneuvers, sneak attack as needed, Pact Augmentation, +16 BAB?

I know that the build faces some problems (BaB for example). Factotum is out for me since I don't own the book yet. But with your build I'd be in melee again, which is not what I wanted for this one (actually not going to play it, at least not at the moment). I think that Scout levels are somewhat underestimated, medium BaB, some Bonus Feats, Blindsense (in my case), better Movement, and a very nice skill list. It's not a complete combat powerhouse (nevertheless, it's ~200 damage per round without splitting/speed/haste/whatever) - it shouldn't be, but a survival-type character with scouting/(social) possibilities and a decent offense. I played around with Unseen Seer and stuff, but it didn't please me much - less feats, less skills, mediocre spellcasting.
Swordsage would imo not contribute much to a ranged skirmish build, Shadow Blade rocks, but is melee only.

And Warblade synergizes very well with Scout, Press the Advantage/Absolute Steel Stance seem to be written for them ;)
Just pointing out that RAW, Paimon's Dance of Death ability can be used w/ ranged weapons (not that this was intended, however).