The most powerful character. EVER.

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Whoa. Right. Just about what I thought it was .

In any event, what would a Reverse Gravity spell do to a Black Hole? Pun-pun has an infinite caster level, so any size Black Hole can be reversed. Would everything sort of... spill out? Would it suddenly get very bright?

I think it depends on what you think happens to matter after it gets sucked into a black hole.

Even reversing the gravity of a black hole doesn't make sense due to the fact that energy is related to matter which leads to gravity, so using magical energy to reverse an infinitely massive object to negate its gravity hurts my brain.

But depending on what you think happens to matter after it gets sucked in would determine what happens to a black hole if you reversed gravity it.
Nope, you couldn't cast any spell at the black hole since the distance between something outside the event horizon and the black hole would be infinate. The range of your spell would then be negated.
Nope, you couldn't cast any spell at the black hole since the distance between something outside the event horizon and the black hole would be infinate. The range of your spell would then be negated.

except for the fact that the range of thespell is also infinite as are all things pun-pun
right and the range from outside the event horizon to the event horizon would in effect be infinate...that would sort of "cancel out" Pun Pun's infinate range, then there is the space from there to the black hole itself...

though I suppose an object could have a trigger spell effect on it as it gets sucked into the black hole to cast the reverse gravity at that moment.
right and the range from outside the event horizon to the event horizon would in effect be infinate...that would sort of "cancel out" Pun Pun's infinate range, then there is the space from there to the black hole itself...

though I suppose an object could have a trigger spell effect on it as it gets sucked into the black hole to cast the reverse gravity at that moment.

ah bu we're operating on how he would react if he wee within the event horizon
Wow, this thread just went beyond me. Hardcore.
If we consider that everything exists for a purpose, then so do Black Holes. If we then consider their function, we can easily deduce that Black Holes are made to completely erase all matter within a given area (though granted a big one), then explode in a spectacular silent bang that creates a new star nursery.

So, if Black Holes are around to erase matter in the universe and thus create a new beginning, Pun-pun jumping into one would probably bring it to critical mass and immediately explode.

Pun-pun would in effect kickstart an endless loop by which massive stars are created, transform into black holes, and then explode themselves.

So, Pun-pun, despite all his ability, cannot end

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How very Sadako
I was writing up a character sheet for Pun Pun as a wilder, and went to double check to make sure it'd work at level 11 for a wilder 10/psion 1, and it won't work either. With 10 levels of wilder, your wild surge will only boost your manifester level by 3, which leaves you 1 short of the 14 needed to metamorphosis into a sarrukh, as I don't think the manifester level from psion will stack with the wilder levels - to the best of my knowledge, only power points stack. So basically, you have to wait until level 12 (wilder 11/psion 1) anyway to for wild surge to improve again, and since you get a feat at 12 you're better off going just wilder 12. And an egoist 12 would probably do better.

So, unless you go the Master of Many Forms route mentioned earlier, it just does not look like you can achieve ultimate power until level 12.

I think you missed something when I suggested Wilder 11 previously. It wasn't using the power yourself. You use the Wild Surge ability on a Power Stone that is ML 12 (Egoist) The manifester check would be ridicously easy, and the Wild Surge bumps you up to the ML14 as needed.
Even reversing the gravity of a black hole doesn't make sense due to the fact that energy is related to matter which leads to gravity.

yeah but it's magic :D
How'd this thread go from Kobold over dieties to blackholes?
it's a long story
I just realized how nasty the Divine Minion exploit is. Gain 20th level psion manifesting from the Elder Brain (Lords of Madness).


I think the next big exploit will be to create a character that can do something, anything that Pun-Pun can't do.
ill gladly create a charecter that can die and isnt nigh if not invunerable
There's an easy way for Pun-Pun to die, by the way.

Manipulate Form says it can remove an ability as well.

So if you think teleporting to near the event horizon of a black hole won't kill him (which is silly; I don't think that even Pun-Pun could survive that), or if feasting on antimatter won't work in your mind, he can always devolve himself the same way he built himself up, and then proceed to die a normal character death.

Strange, but true.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules | Discussion: 5e Artificer

Yes. The hulking hurler first, to make people gasp more in horror later. 4*4=16. 16*4= 64. 64*4=256. 256*4= 1000. Close enough, at least. Thus, 4^5=1000 (for the slow out there), and 4^x = 1 followed by a number of 0s equal to 3(x/5). With me? Hulking hurler thus has 533,000,000,000...x48. So, 25,584,000,000,000. Impressive, I suppose.

Pun Pun has a measly 3168 x (4^2000). Which is only....

3,168,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Or something close to that. (It is meant to be 3,168 followed by 1200 0's, in case I messed up.) Incidentally, I am unaware of any way to actually express that number in words, in any fashion other than scientific notation. Mankind has no words for numbers that large.

Thirty-eight thousand and sixteen googols. ('s truth..)
Thirty-eight thousand and sixteen googols. ('s truth..)

but we could easily get it to a googleplex to the googeplex power, assuming we could find an object massive enough to throw, perhaps a full neutron star?
I think it depends on what you think happens to matter after it gets sucked into a black hole.

Time travel, quite possibly.

After all, the reason a black hole is called a black hole is because even light cannot escape it's gravity. Light which travels somewhere in the neighborhood of 188,000 miles per second. Light which, according to big Al, is nature's speed limit and therefore governs time.

Of course, whatever happens when gravity is reversed does not negate the fact that anything that has entered the BH has already been crushed to so much galactic powder, and is not of much use to anyone after that really.

Yes, the Disney movie is utterly absurd. :D
There's an easy way for Pun-Pun to die, by the way.

Manipulate Form says it can remove an ability as well.

So if you think teleporting to near the event horizon of a black hole won't kill him (which is silly; I don't think that even Pun-Pun could survive that), or if feasting on antimatter won't work in your mind, he can always devolve himself the same way he built himself up, and then proceed to die a normal character death.

Strange, but true.

Agreed. I am not sure why some are under the impression that Pun-pun couldn't kill himself if he really wanted to. I mean... Pun-pun can probably do anything imaginable if he really sets his mind to it.

Just for kicks... could Pun-pun make a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it?
After all, the reason a black hole is called a black hole is because even light cannot escape it's gravity. Light which travels somewhere in the neighborhood of 188,000 miles per second. Light which, according to big Al, is nature's speed limit and therefore governs time.

Hmmm... well, since Pun-pun's speed is equal to 5 times his Con bonus, and his con bonus is infinite, his speed is infinite. Would he then be able to escape a black-hole?

On second thought, wouldn't travelling at such high speeds increase Pun-pun's mass to infinity? Perhaps we found a way to increase his Space/Reach to match his other stats .
Of course, whatever happens when gravity is reversed does not negate the fact that anything that has entered the BH has already been crushed to so much galactic powder, and is not of much use to anyone after that really.

How does this happen? Is there anything in game that could protect one from these harmful effects? I think it would at least warrant a fortitude save ;).
Hmmm... well, since Pun-pun's speed is equal to 5 times his Con bonus, and his con bonus is infinite, his speed is infinite.

If he moves at infinite speed, he's already broken nature's speed limit by an infinite amount, and has travelled an infinite distance through time. That's a power you don't see too often in D&D.

In fact, it's already blown my mind like an Illithid wh0re.
I am sooo not gona get into this... I am sooo not gona get into this.... I am sooo not gona get into this...

I had better distract myself.

*Hugs Khan with Pun-pun* :embarrass
what is the wildshape/awaken trick and what book can awaken can be found in?also what creature is feed from? thank you very much
Feed is from the Barghest

Wildshape can be found in the Druid and Awaken can be found in their spell list, it's in the Player's Handbook
If he moves at infinite speed, he's already broken nature's speed limit by an infinite amount, and has travelled an infinite distance through time. That's a power you don't see too often in D&D.

What? Sufficient speed allows you to travel through time?

Does this speed increase Pun-pun's mass?
In fact, it's already blown my mind like an Illithid wh0re.

What were you doing with an Illi... never mind. I won't even bother.
what is the wildshape/awaken trick and what book can awaken can be found in?also what creature is feed from? thank you very much

You wildshape into an animal and target yourself with Awaken, which gives the animal 2 HD, permanently.

So Pun-pun can get infinite HD by doing this over and over again. And for the record, Pun-pun doesn't mind animal HD.
What? Sufficient speed allows you to travel through time?

Does this speed increase Pun-pun's mass?

What were you doing with an Illi... never mind. I won't even bother.

You wildshape into an animal and target yourself with Awaken, which gives the animal 2 HD, permanently.

So Pun-pun can get infinite HD by doing this over and over again. And for the record, Pun-pun doesn't mind animal HD.

what he does mind is it taking 12 hours per HD, he'd rather kill three people of his HD or more and spend 3 rounds getting a HD, four rounds total per HD, that 3600 HD per day instead of the awaken trick's 2
what he does mind is it taking 12 hours per HD, he'd rather kill three people of his HD or more and spend 3 rounds getting a HD, four rounds total per HD, that 3600 HD per day instead of the awaken trick's 2

Whoa... you're right. However, a spell-like ability at-will as a free action would solve that. At the very least, it should be just as easy for Pun-pun to make a spell that cuts the casting time of Awaken as it would be to summon humanoids with as many HD as he has.

Regardless of the method, we can agree he has infinite HD.
Whoa... you're right. However, a spell-like ability at-will as a free action would solve that. At the very least, it should be just as easy for Pun-pun to make a spell that cuts the casting time of Awaken as it would be to summon humanoids with as many HD as he has.

Regardless of the method, we can agree he has infinite HD.

or he could just make a spell that summoned humanoid corpses with enough HD and gorge himself
Regardless of the method, we can agree he has infinite HD.

This is probably the one gripe I have with Pun-pun. Infinity isn't a level of ability or power, it's a time period. Having infinite HD or anything else, just means that he doesn't have a limit to reach, not that he's completely infallible. Infinity is defined as 'Time without end', a better description of Pun-pun is Limitless

P.S Could someone direct me to Synchronicity? I'm having trouble locating the rules for it, and I would like to see the entire prerequisites for the time combination
I think we need an "Idiot's Guide to Pun-Pun the One", which includes step-by-step actions, explinations, and basically is a sheet you can read to your DM as you go through the steps of becoming a level 12 Almighty.
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And, while I'm here, I present Pun-Pun's theme song.


push it to the limit
walk along the razor's edge
don't look down, just keep your head
or you'll be finished

open up the limit
past the point of no return
reach the top, but still you gotta learn
how to keep it

hit the wheel, and double the stakes
throttle wide open, like a bat out of hell
you crash the gates
(crash the gates!)

going for the back of beyond
nothing gonna stop you
there's nothing that strong
it's so close now, you merely have the break
so, push it!

ooo yeah

welcome to the limit
take it maybe one step more
the power game's still playing
so you better win it

push it to the limit
no one left to stand in your way
you might get careless, but you'll never be saved
while you still feel it

welcome to the limit
standing on the razor's edge
don't look down, just keep your head
or you'll be finished

welcome to the limit

push it to the limit

 Knights of the New Republic Now recruiting!
also where does it say divine rank is a supernatural ability
Though i might be wrong they got Divine Rank from a EX ability, they started with DR 0 from abombination traits in the ELH, Then they did something like get mroe worshippers, or however you can increase divine rank in the current campaign setting.
This is probably the one gripe I have with Pun-pun. Infinity isn't a level of ability or power, it's a time period. Having infinite HD or anything else, just means that he doesn't have a limit to reach, not that he's completely infallible. Infinity is defined as 'Time without end', a better description of Pun-pun is Limitless

...ok. Limitless it is.
I think we need an "Idiot's Guide to Pun-Pun the One", which includes step-by-step actions, explinations, and basically is a sheet you can read to your DM as you go through the steps of becoming a level 12 Almighty.

Other than the original post? Yeah, I guess the original post doesn't go too in depth. I had been waiting to put this up for so long. My original ideas were a bit more intensive, but they got deleted a couple of times. I got tired of typing so much. But I could definately try and do a more in-depth step-by-step post. Give me some time though.
also where does it say divine rank is a supernatural ability

It doesn't. But it is listed under the special qualities section of the Abomination monster trait in the Epic Level Handbook. Therefore, it has to be either Extraordinary, Supernatural, or Spell-like in nature, according to the Monster Manual 3.5. And as such, it can be granted with Manipulate Form.
Though i might be wrong they got Divine Rank from a EX ability, they started with DR 0 from abombination traits in the ELH, Then they did something like get mroe worshippers, or however you can increase divine rank in the current campaign setting.

Actually, the spell Ice Assassin is used to duplicate a god. By the books, this works. So, you duplicate the god, and command it to make you a proxy, granting you one divine rank. Duplicate as many more gods as you want, and have them make you a proxy. You gain as many divine ranks as you please . Thanks to Lokiyn for finding this out.
hm...could you use deathless frenzy to avoid being knocked unconcious while using manipulate form?
In fact, it's already blown my mind like an Illithid wh0re.

To the quote thread with this puppy.

I still want to see if I can create a character that can do something Pun-Pun-no-Kami cannot.
I can do that right now.

My character is a level 1 Wizard with 4 Constitution. He has one Hitpoint. What can he do that Pun-Pun can't do? He can have one hit point - the MINIMUM HP that Pun-Pun can have is 12, even if he tanked his Con score to 1, because he has to have HP equal to his hit dice as a minimum.

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is there any way to grant yourself font of power since it lists it as a ps ability
also where is the ruling feats are extraordinary abilities?
Psionic abilities can be granted as Supernatural abilities, since Manipulate Form can grant any ability possiblw, and we're just using Metamind's ability as a template.
There's one thing you can't even get. The Sharn Archetype ability. You cant even change into a sharn. No familar can change into a sharn.
There's one thing you can't even get. The Sharn Archetype ability. You cant even change into a sharn. No familar can change into a sharn.

he doen't have to change into something to get the ability
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