The most powerful character. EVER.

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Just one question, sorry if already answered: Can the Wish and the Word possibly kill you? Maybe by you talking beause you fell save and then casting their spells?

Or have you a immunity or high enough SR against it?

If not, then I remembered the build that could kill pun-pun. Yeah, its really more than just broken too, but it could be possible :D

Greater Spell Immunity (Blasphemy, Holy Word, Dictum, Word of Chaos) will cover all of that abuse.
Prodigium Mortus
Necromancy [Death]
Spellcraft DC: 48
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1-action
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 432,000 gp; 9 days; 17,280 XP; Seed: slay (DC 25), Factor: 1-action casting time (+20 DC), increase to 160 HD (+8 DC), remove saving throw (ad hoc +10 DC), Mitigating factors: burn 1,500 XP during casting (-15 DC)

This spell instantly snuffs out the life of any creature with 160 HD or less within 300 ft. provided that the caster manages to overcome any spell resistance the creature has. This effect appears as a blackish smoke emanating from directly beneath the victim, that then consumes them entirely, killing them within seconds, and dissipating once they have fallen. Meanwhile, the XP loss appears as arcing lightning bolts that spread across the caster’s body until the target has died.

This isn't perfect for the task, but a little modification can remove the SR allowance, and it should be able to handle Pun-pun quite easily after that.
Prodigium Mortus
Necromancy [Death]

Stop. Defeated by Pun-Pun's continuous deathward.
Stop. Defeated by Pun-Pun's continuous deathward.

and before, defeated by pun-pun's immunity to magic
Hmmm, it occurs to me that Pun-Pun will have given himself the swarm-like abilities of a Sithilar, because, well, he would do. The Prodigium Mortus spell would fail before even meeting his death ward simply because it doesn't have Target: One million tiny kobold gods.

EDIT: Pun-Pun isn't immune to epic spells, is he?
EDIT: Pun-Pun isn't immune to epic spells, is he?

Likely only those with the [Death], [Mind Affecting] or similar descriptors covered by blanket effects like deathward and mindblank
coudlnt he just use the golems spell immunity after buffing and remove it every day when buffing somehow
well, in order to use such a spell, you'd have to get initiative (good luck...he has DIVINE initiative -> always goes first). If you get around that...then he also has Rejuvenation Salient Divine Ability...he comes back in 10d10 days. And once more...magic immune
I'm not sure, but don't Greater Gods have the ability to instantly will anyone of 15th level or lower? I know I've either heard it somewhere before or my DM made it up. :P
Hmmm. Epic spellcasting. Now, here's a reason for my quadrillions of xp thing earlier. Pun-Pun's epic spells per day would still be limited to spellcraft ranks/10. See, there is a reason for hit dice!

Wait. I'll bet that I am proved wrong within five posts.
Well, I remember there was a Void Disciple power which gave you RANKS, actual RANKS in a skill, allowing you to qualify for certain epic feats, and most importantly, since the skill rank bonus is 10000 or more, giving you over 1000 epic spells per day. Per class whose spellcasting features you choose to emulate.

Do you know how many epic spells that is?

EDIT: The bonus is temporary, about 10 rounds. However, Pun-pun has infinite actions; he CAN make a high spellcraft DC, and he can gate in enough ethergaunts to contribute all kinds of spells to his casting. (Affinity Field + Synchronicity Cheese - ethergaunts take floating readied action to contribute spell)
or he can just give himself every epic spell as spell-like abilities (the infernal has hellball as sp)
I'm not sure, but don't Greater Gods have the ability to instantly will anyone of 15th level or lower? I know I've either heard it somewhere before or my DM made it up. :P

i checked...closest thing is Divine Splendor.
pg 42 of D&DG
any creature approaching within 10 ft per divine rank of the diety in its natural form dies immedietly...no save
If he tried to cast a spell with an xp cost would he lose all his abilities if it dropped him below level 12?
Neat!
I have a question though:
In order to get an ability with manipulate form don't you need to have interacted first with the creature who has the said ability?

No you don't. The Manipulate Form is not like an Illithid Savant's Acquire abilities. It isn't specifically tied to abilities already had by other creatures. Pun-pun can just grant himself any supernatural, extraordinary, or spell-like ability.
I have just one specific question about Manipulate Form, can it add Hit Dice?

Not directly. But perhaps liberal use of Wildshape/Awaken (making the Awaken permanent with Alter Reality) would work for gaining HD. Not that he would need to. Remember, he can gain any ability (except for Divine Ranks above 0). Which means he can do just about anything.
Just one question, sorry if already answered: Can the Wish and the Word possibly kill you? Maybe by you talking beause you fell save and then casting their spells?

No. Pun-pun would definately decimate these guys. He has initiative down, and infinite actions, and every ability in the game, and every immunity in the game.
Or have you a immunity or high enough SR against it?

Yes. Not to mention that as a god, Pun-pun can have an anti-magic field up at all times and still cast his own spells.
This isn't perfect for the task, but a little modification can remove the SR allowance, and it should be able to handle Pun-pun quite easily after that.

Aside from being stopped by Deathward, this guy has to beat Pun-pun's initiative. His initiative is 'I always go first.'
Hmmm. Epic spellcasting. Now, here's a reason for my quadrillions of xp thing earlier. Pun-Pun's epic spells per day would still be limited to spellcraft ranks/10. See, there is a reason for hit dice!

Not really.
Wait. I'll bet that I am proved wrong within five posts.

It happened, good prediction . I was at work, so Rashemon got to it before I could. But basically, the Void Disciple's ability allows you to add ranks to a skill equal to the relevant modifier. Check the original post again, I made note of this to beat any skill modifier record. Pun-pun can have infinite Epic spells/day (not to mention all of them as spell-like abilities at-will).

However, if the Void Disicple's ability is (su), then it can be made permanent with Alter Reality.
i checked...closest thing is Divine Splendor.
pg 42 of D&DG
any creature approaching within 10 ft per divine rank of the diety in its natural form dies immedietly...no save

One minor nitpick, if I remember correctly, is that this ability only affects mortals. I may be wrong though.

I would be impressed to see anyone that could defeat Pun-pun.
If he tried to cast a spell with an xp cost would he lose all his abilities if it dropped him below level 12?

Any spell he casts would be a spell-like ability, meaning it would have no XP components. But no, he wouldn't lose his abilities by losing levels, they are all permanent.
One minor nitpick, if I remember correctly, is that this ability only affects mortals. I may be wrong though.

just checked, you are correct.
Pun-pun finds a Paragon Great Prismatic Wyrm (CR 81)
Pun-pun is ECL 12.
Pun-pun proceeds to reduce said dragon to utter nothingness-in one round.
Pun-pun has single-handedly defeated a CR 81 challenge.
Pun-pun gains 4,830,206,342,941,417 xp.

Four quadrillion, eight-hundred-thirty trillion, two-hundred-six billion, three-hundred-forty-two million, nine-hundred-forty-one thousand, four hundred and seventeen experience points.

That is a lot of levels. I don't even know where to begin calculating how many. See, the only problem Pun-Pun has is effects that harm him based on his hit dice. This would give him quite a few more hit dice that before.


This also illustrates why the DMG recommends not fighting things seven levels above or below your ECL. The xp system breaks down pretty badly after that.

Incorrect. Regardless of the many millions of XP he may gain from such an encounter, he would, at maximum, go up only 1 level, whilst gaining enough XP to be 1 XP from his next level. There's a rule in the DMG somewhere that says this, might be in the PHB
Fine, but with infinite actions, he can go as many epic foes as he wants in a single round, thus gaining however many levels he wants.
Fine, but with infinite actions, he can go as many epic foes as he wants in a single round, thus gaining however many levels he wants.

But XP gained is based on how challenging the creature is. If you can kill it before it can react, is it really a challenge worthy of gaining XP? :D
oh great...a naked kobold with an edward elric complex


This is begging to be made fun of with Adobe Photoshop.

This is begging to be made fun of with Adobe Photoshop.

Thank you for volunteering. :D Post a link here when you are done. Pixelate strategically to keep it within the CoC.
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am), but I am getting the impression that Pun Pun can grant himself supernatural and extraordinary abilities that did not even exist before he gave it to himself, and that we're just looking at abilities that already exist for the sake of simplicity. In which case, the unconsciousness could be circumvented by giving him Unconsciousness Immunity (Ex): Character can not be made unconscious by any means.

Granted, if that works, that's a really cheap way to get around one of the few "weaknesses" of the build. If he can do that, then he can also grant himself Divine Ranks (Ex): Character has a number of divine ranks equal to Ao +1.

At any rate, if nothing else works to prevent he unconsciousness, there's gotta be a spell, or epic spell, that will prevent it. Pun Pun then gives himself the spell as a spell like ability, and either uses Alter Reality to make it permanant, or grants himself the epic feat that makes any one self only spell permanant.
I apologize if this has already been pointed out (or if I missed where this was already addressed, if so kindly point it out).

The Sarrhuk do not have divine rank, not even divine rank 0. I think if it were possible they would have granted themselves divine rank 0 a long time ago, so Pun-Pun shouldn't be able to either. Even if he can, in a world like Forgotten Realms where an overdeity controls who gains divine rank, there is the possibility of no divine rank 0.

And again, from memory, in order to have Salient Divine Abilities you have to have divine ranks, some of them require a lot of divine ranks. I don't think any are available to divine rank 0, but it has been a while since I read them.

So if this has been addressed, please point out where. If it has not, I'm sorry, don't hurt me.
I apologize if this has already been pointed out (or if I missed where this was already addressed, if so kindly point it out).

The Sarrhuk do not have divine rank, not even divine rank 0. I think if it were possible they would have granted themselves divine rank 0 a long time ago, so Pun-Pun shouldn't be able to either. Even if he can, in a world like Forgotten Realms where an overdeity controls who gains divine rank, there is the possibility of no divine rank 0.

Sarrhuk cannot affect each other with Manipulate Form, nor do they wish to give their minions more powers than they themselves have. There's the solution.

And again, from memory, in order to have Salient Divine Abilities you have to have divine ranks, some of them require a lot of divine ranks. I don't think any are available to divine rank 0, but it has been a while since I read them.

So if this has been addressed, please point out where. If it has not, I'm sorry, don't hurt me.

Abobination Traits, from the Abobination in the ELH, include Divine Ranks, and it's an EX ability.



By the way, Khan asked for a link to the Divine Minion, and no one provided one. I guess I'll indulge. (recall that Master of Many Forms had errata regarding wild shape stacking, and divine minion can't be applied to a kobold without the celestial or fiendish template.)

I have to run right now or I'll miss my cognitive science lecture, but if no one's abused this when I return late tonight (curse evening classes on days with morning classes!), I'll work this out myself. I don't think the core trick here will work with a Divine Minion (since you can't Share Wild Shape), but a related one (likely using an intelligent summon) could probably do the same.

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Sarrhuk cannot affect each other with Manipulate Form, nor do they wish to give their minions more powers than they themselves have. There's the solution.


Abobination Traits, from the Abobination in the ELH, include Divine Ranks, and it's an EX ability.



By the way, Khan asked for a link to the Divine Minion, and no one provided one. I guess I'll indulge. (recall that Master of Many Forms had errata regarding wild shape stacking, and divine minion can't be applied to a kobold without the celestial or fiendish template.)

I have to run right now or I'll miss my cognitive science lecture, but if no one's abused this when I return late tonight (curse evening classes on days with morning classes!), I'll work this out myself. I don't think the core trick here will work with a Divine Minion (since you can't Share Wild Shape), but a related one (likely using an intelligent summon) could probably do the same.

last I checked kobolds were humanoid
last I checked kobolds were humanoid

Small Humanoid (Reptilian), to be precise, but yes they are humanoid
By the way, Khan asked for a link to the Divine Minion, and no one provided one. I guess I'll indulge. (recall that Master of Many Forms had errata regarding wild shape stacking, and divine minion can't be applied to a kobold without the celestial or fiendish template.)

Thanks Tempest.

So, if I am reading this right... then a Human divine minion Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 4 can Wild Shape into a monstrous humanoid with 14 HD. That is level 6 including the Level Adjustment.

Assuming that the Divine Minion's Fast Wild Shape ability qualifies it for the prestige class.

Wow . I'll have to go find the first guy that posted this and re-edit the original post. Infinite power by level 6 is awesome.

EDIT: Alright. So, if we assume that Divine Minion's Fast Wild Shaping qualifies for Master of Many Forms, then 4 levels of MoMF is needed to get 14 HD Wild Shaping, and the level in Wizard or Sorcerer gets us a familiar. Meaning, this can be pulled off by level 6 as Turok124 pointed out.

If we don't assume the Divine Minion's ability stacks, then we would use Jedrious' build, meaning we can get it off by level 9 (assuming that the Wildshape Ranger stacks with the Divine Minion's ability).

And finally, if we don't use Unearthed Arcana, then we could do Divine Minion 1/Druid 5/Master of Many Forms 4, for a 10th level build of infinite power.

I just want to be sure before I edit the first post again. Does all of this look about right?
Disgusting. :D
Actually, since divine minion grants you wildshape as an 11th level druid, you only need 3 levels in master of many forms.

Thus the build is: Divine Minion/Sorc 1/MMF 3. At level 5, before you're elligible for most prestiege classes, you're Duncan McCloud immune to critical hits.
Thanks Tempest.

So, if I am reading this right... then a Human divine minion Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 4 can Wild Shape into a monstrous humanoid with 14 HD. That is level 6 including the Level Adjustment.

Assuming that the Divine Minion's Fast Wild Shape ability qualifies it for the prestige class.

Wow . I'll have to go find the first guy that posted this and re-edit the original post. Infinite power by level 6 is awesome.

EDIT: Alright. So, if we assume that Divine Minion's Fast Wild Shaping qualifies for Master of Many Forms, then 4 levels of MoMF is needed to get 14 HD Wild Shaping, and the level in Wizard or Sorcerer gets us a familiar. Meaning, this can be pulled off by level 6 as Turok124 pointed out.

If we don't assume the Divine Minion's ability stacks, then we would use Jedrious' build, meaning we can get it off by level 9 (assuming that the Wildshape Ranger stacks with the Divine Minion's ability).

And finally, if we don't use Unearthed Arcana, then we could do Divine Minion 1/Druid 5/Master of Many Forms 4, for a 10th level build of infinite power.

I just want to be sure before I edit the first post again. Does all of this look about right?

looks right to me
Great, now we not only have to worry about Pun-pun, but we also have Dave the Divine Minion...
If he has Divine Rank 0, can't he start attacking - and killing - the other Gods? And by doing so, thus boosting his own Divine Rank?
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If he has Divine Rank 0, can't he start attacking - and killing - the other Gods? And by doing so, thus boosting his own Divine Rank?

depends on the ascendancy rules for gods in the campaign
depends on the ascendancy rules for gods in the campaign

If ascending is a matter of followers, then pun-pun, which nigh infinite charisma and leadership, gets up there pretty quick.
So, now, all we have to do is make Pun-Pun a hermit. He will spend his entire life in the bottom of an enormousi cave, in a tiny little alcove of his own. This alcove is infested with rats. So, Pun-Pun runs around his 10X10 room slaughtering the rats and eating the remains, leveling up. Once he hits level 11 (ECL12) he gets an idea, and starts his time loop. 6 seconds later, each ability is infinity x 10^9999999999999999999999999999999, he has each feat, and has each stackable feat infinity x 10^239084712089347109287 times, not to mention the spellcasting of epic characters, divine rank 0, divine salent abilities, and every class ability, more or less.

Second 1, "Hmm.... a kobold has become stronger..."
second 6, "Hmm.... a kobold has destroyed Ao...."


He has access to epic feats, doesn't he? Now all he needs is vow of poverty. Oh wait, he does!

What about epic spellcasting?
Actually, since divine minion grants you wildshape as an 11th level druid, you only need 3 levels in master of many forms.

Thus the build is: Divine Minion/Sorc 1/MMF 3. At level 5, before you're elligible for most prestiege classes, you're Duncan McCloud immune to critical hits.

exactly. And the divine minion would be only be +1 LA (since he'd worship an appropriate god...well, temporarily at least).

Hobojimathome and I brought this one together. you can use either wizard or sorceror for a familiar, it doesn't matter at ALL. Likewise, you can use a psion or psywarrior with a psicrystal for the same effect.

so yeah...we stick by level 5 build, and we're glad we made a good contribution to this.

Great, now we not only have to worry about Pun-pun, but we also have Dave the Divine Minion...

we kinda liked "Geekee"
Actually, since divine minion grants you wildshape as an 11th level druid, you only need 3 levels in master of many forms.

Whups. Good call.
Thus the build is: Divine Minion/Sorc 1/MMF 3. At level 5, before you're elligible for most prestiege classes, you're Duncan McCloud immune to critical hits.

Sort of. Duncan McCloud is still 'hurt' by the damage he takes. He just doesn't die from it. Pun-pun will pretty much be immune to everything or prevent it from hurting him in the first place.
looks right to me

Awesome. We have achieved critical systems failure at level 5 :D.
If he has Divine Rank 0, can't he start attacking - and killing - the other Gods?

Absolutely. Actually, Pun-pun pretty much had the power to kill gods before he became one himself. But yes, you are correct anyways .
And by doing so, thus boosting his own Divine Rank?

This is completely based on the campaign. There is nothing in the books that states how gods can rise in Divine Rank. This annoying little fact is the only reason I can't get Pun-pun a higher Divine Rank. I mean, technically I could just make an extraordinary ability that gives him DR 20, but I would rather do it strictly by the rules.
What about epic spellcasting?

Yep. Pun-pun has ranks in every skill approaching inifinity, meaning he has an infinite number of epic spells per day (3 times over when we divide them into arcane, divine, and psionic). And with infinite skill check modifiers, I suppose he could make an epic spell that turned him into a Divine Rank 20 god, DM permitting of course :P.
so yeah...we stick by level 5 build, and we're glad we made a good contribution to this.

We appreciate the contribution. Since I hear most campaigns don't last long after level 10, getting an infinite modifier on every roll you will ever make is important to do by level 5 .

I shall edit the first post to include the new builds.
note: easy way to advance in HD, give yourself the barghest's ability to feed(SU)
note: easy way to advance in HD, give yourself the barghest's ability to feed(SU)

Nice, though more vicious than using Wildshape/Awaken. I like it, though I still contend that Pun-pun has no reason to gain HD.
Only problem I can see with going the Wilder route, is that in order to manifest Metamorphosis at level 11, you either need some item that lets you use it, or someone with Psychic Chirurgery and Metamorphosis (very hard to find indeed, since they are both discipline powers on different discipline lists) to teach it to you. Without an item or the Psychic Chirurgery, the earliest level the Wilder can get metamorphosis is level 12 with the Expanded Knowledge feat.