Dunk him in the Sty.... is that Mt. Celestia?

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Alright, this is a lil thing that came up in a long-running Planescape Campaign during the last Hellbound adventure.

If you are a player, don't look. It'll spoil a few things, if you are a DM, authority on metaphysics, go ahead and help me!

If your name is Shemeska the Marauder, King of Crosstrade, please don't look....

Really.

Please don't look Miss Sigil's Best Arcanaloth 500 years running.



Now then, there were six players in the party at the time of this campaign. However, only five of them met the Baernloth and swore to not kill the Maeldur. The sixth one later was given the Vuulge and spoke with the Maeldur and told it's name.

Now you Yugoloths that are spying out there may remember that the ORIGINAL plan was to dunk the Maeldur into the Styx so that'll lose it's memories and the other fiends'll have to start coming to you guys in order to regain that fun Teleport Without Error.

However, that sixth party member was just slightly chaotic and well meaning.

And thought that dunking Mr. Maeldur into the Styx wouldn't be nice. Best to send the poor guy home.

To Mount Celestia, specifically the Silver Sea.



Now does anybody have a reasonable idea as to what would happen in such an event?
To my players...you don't want to metagame on this because Riddle will metagame bullets into your Shadowrun characters.

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Give the man super bonus experience. Not only did he win the battle, he may have won the war. His act of mercy means that several dozens (if not hundreds or thousands) of millenia of Yugoloth planning have just been thwarted. The fiends have all been dealt a crippling blow since the Yugoloths won't be able to tell their names to the Maeldur, nor will they be able to force the cooperation of the Baatezu and Tanar'ri because they won't be able to restore their teleportation. If word gets out that the Yugoloths are behind this, then the Bloodwar might actually turn into Baatezu+Tanar'ri vs. Yugoloths until the 'loths are all wiped out.

If you are asking about what effect the Silver Sea would have on the Maeldur, the answer may or may not surprise you. It would make him wet. The holy powers of its water will not burn him, for he is no fiend, though he has been a tool of the fiends for eons. Most likely his bretheren will do their best to help him regain his former glory. It is unlikely that he will be an object of scorn, it is more likely that he will be an object of pity. His struggle to redeem himself after spending so long as a spreader of such evil fits quite well with the theme of the holy mountain. Given enough time, he will eventually burn away his iniquity and climb to the summit. It will take a long time to climb to the height from which he had fallen, though.

If you are curious what the reprecussions are for the players...lets just say that they better wish for anonymity if they fear pain. After doing something like that, there is no way that the Yugoloth assassins would let them die. Oh no, they would be captured and then tortured until they die of old age. Perhaps the Yugoloths would even devise ways of extending their natural life span just so that they can inflict even more suffering upon them.
What Sildatorak said. It also happened in my 2E game. They ended up in Celestia and the angels took the Maeldur to the City of Swords for protection while trying to undo the vile transformation initiated by the baernaloth. The PC got rewarded... but later on, while the party was busy with other quests, a huge yugoloth army led by several ultroloths (commissioned by either the General of Gehenna or the Oinoloth) assaulted the City of Swords, killing many sword archons before reinforcements destroyed the fiend army. Most of the ultroloths died, but a small strike team managed to recover the Maeldur.

The loth plans continued on... but their number was severely crippled. All these were told from an NPC's point of view.
Alright. Good suggestions there.

Now then, if you recall, the Maeldur's dunking (in the original plan) would have created that fluke of the Multiverse.

The Darklore's.

However, would such a thing happen as the Maeldur got dunked into the Silver Sea? Could it happen?
The darklores were created from the memories of the Maeldur, which were stripped from its body by the waters of the Styx.

Since the waters of Lunia's silver ocean aren't known to strip memories from anyone, it's unlikely anything would be created.

Unless the holiness of the water actually dissolves the fiend-twisted body of the Maeldur, transforming its life-essence into multiple living somethings. It wouldn't be an ooze that feeds on memories, though; I'm thinking something like a school of intelligent silver fish.
If the archons realize what the solar-blob is, they will take him to Chronias as this changes the power structure on the planes considerably. The celestials would likely seek to persuade the PCs to stay as the Wheel is a lot more dangerous for them now. Barring that, I think the archons would offer some means of protection, either boons of recall, cool gear, or somesuch.
And somewhere old Daru suddenly gets really REALLY REALLY cranky for the next millennia as he constantly mutters, 'Damnit, have to make another one now..."

And there will be lots of fiends with sore feet from having to walk everywhere. *chuckle*

GD that's one way to **** off the fiends in the worst possible way. Quick thinking on that one there :D

Of course a much darker possibility would be that the moment the Maeldur hit the ocean in Celestia that it would catch on fire and die in burning, screaming agony over the next few minutes as the holy water reacted with its innate corruption at the hands of the Baern. Like dropping baking soda in vinegar. :P
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
Of course a much darker possibility would be that the moment the Maeldur hit the ocean in Celestia that it would catch on fire and die in burning, screaming agony over the next few minutes as the holy water reacted with its innate corruption at the hands of the Baern. Like dropping baking soda in vinegar. :P

Is that so bad compared to the alternative?
Bah, but its so depressing. Sometimes it seems like everything in Planescape is meant to depress you - I want to WIN one of these days, dangit.

The Maeldur was saved by redeeming hands. Noble souls risked perils to save this tortured and fallen celestial. Its mind is broken, its body corrupted, but its spirit is sad and craving redemption. It feels that it is beyond such hope, but it still would like nothing better than return to the holy Mount and regain the love of its fellows.

But I like Rip's idea about the fishies.

How's this... the Maeldur falls in the Holy Water Sea. Its body EXPLODES into a swarm of glimmering fish, a huge swarm, a nearly infinite swarm which scatter throughout the ocean, finding the cracks between planes, inhabiting the Oceanus and all of the other mighty celestial waterways.

Left behind is a weakly glimmering lantern archon, floating in the waves, unconscious and blank. The Maeldur must earn redemption, must relearn the lessons of the Mount, but he is forgiven.

The fish on the other hand each are gifted with the single true name of a fiend. They know it, they are it. The celestial armies now have a new weapon against the fiends, mystic fish that, when used as arcane focuses, can bind the will of the fiend they are attuned to. Quickly the higher levels (Mariliths, Balors, Pit Fiends, all of the Greater 'Loths) would institute ways to counteract this, but a few top-tiers have to fall before it happens and the lower ranks never get such power.

Good needs a break, dangit.
Well spoken. If it always ends "...but of course the almighty, all-knowing 'loths have of course a back-up plan and/or have planned this all beforehand...", it may be Planescape-y flavour-wise.
But the players might decide they want to play another game soon. One where they can win.
Just my 2 cents.
"...but of course the almighty, all-knowing 'loths have of course a back-up plan and/or have planned this all beforehand...",

The problem is that if the players have even heard mention of Deus Ex Machina, they will probably be screaming their lungs out at the contrivance of the 'loths having a plan for everything all the time, depending on the number of times they faced the first fiends. After all, even immortal schemers make mistakes every one in a long while...
Oh boy, I never thought I'd get so many good responses!

Hmmm...decisions decisions....

And I've got to DM this thing in a couple of hours.

But man do those fishies sound good.

Then again I like Darklore's.... I KNOW!

----------

As the Maeldur careens into the shimmering waters of the Silver Sea, a plume of mist and water rises to meet the starlit sky. Titanic eruptions of flesh and holy water threaten to deafen your ears until you're a graybeard as the once-pure flesh turned horrific by dark secrets explodes into sparkling blue and white mists. Another, unholy roar threatens the night sky before another eruption of water rises on high. (Here make a DC 25 Spot, those who make it will note something.) The body of the Maeldur dissappears under the holy liquid, though the mist continues to rise and waves assault the shores of the Mount. After an hour the water's become normal, and a you can see a faint light approaching you from under the water. You hear, in a child-like sing song voice, "I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur!" the Lantern Archon spins out of the water and around each of you for a bit in a playful manner. Then you hear a splash followed by dozens, hundreds, thousands of similar splashing as small, arm long aquatic creatures, a mix of fish and whale-like qualities covered in shimmering patterns of silver, jump in and out of the water, and a few even begin to fly down the river Oceanus. (Those who made the Spot check saw that behind the curtain of water, a Gargantuan blob of black ooze hovered above the waters for a moment before teleporting away.)

The black blob will dunk itstelf into the Styx, and split into the Darklore's. The holy waters of the Silver Sea had destroyed the blasphemous body of the Maeldur et Kavurik, and transformed it into those shimmering fish-like creatures. However, it could not destroy the entirety of those memories that made up the dark secrets that were whispered, which condensed into that blob that retained the teleportation ability and shifted itself down to the Lower Planes.

Maeldur et Kavurik becomes a Lantern Archon and begins it's climb back up the Mount.

The Yugoloths summarily get piked off that their carefully laid plans have been thwarted.

Those fishy things will have a few interesting abilities and I'll write up their stats later.
I'm not sure if this is all good or what not but... it's what I thought up in 15 minutes.

Memoria (Immature)
Tiny Outsider (Extraplanar, Good)
HD: 2d8
Initiative: -6 (-6 Dex)
Speed: Swim 60 ft, Fly 20 ft (Good)
AC: 20 (+2 Size, +6 Dex, +2 Natural), Touch 18, Flat-footed 14
BAB/Grapple: +2/+
Attack: 1 bite +8 melee (1d4-3 and good memory)
Full Attack: 1 bite +8 melee (1d4-3 and good memory)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Good Memory
Special Qualities: DR 5/evil, blindsight 60 ft., SR15
Saves: Fort. +1, Ref. +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 5, Dex 22, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 12
Skills: Concentration +16, Knowledge (any one) +10
Feats: Iron Will, Weapon Finesse (bite)
Environment: Any land (Mount Celestia or any good-aligned plane touched by the River Oceanus)
Organization: Solitary, School (12-30)
CR: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always good
Advancement: 3-7 (Small); 8-10HD (Medium); 11-13 (Large); 15-17HD (Huge); 18-23 (Gargantuan); 24-31 (Colossal)
LA: (+3 cohort)

A memoria is a small, arm long aquatic creature that has a body like a minature orca whale with long shimmering fish fins. An ever shifting series of silver bands shines from their slick bodies and their eyes glow like soft blue stars. While it is amphibious and does not need to be in water (as demonstrated by their playful acrobatics out of water) they like to stay in it whenever they travel far distances.
Memorias are a result of the Maeldur’s plunge into the Silver Sea. As the sea purged the Maeldur of the dark secrets it held, it’s flesh was shredded apart and each sliver of it was transformed into a memoria. Memorias cannot help but when coming across or passing travelers, they get close enough to search a being’s mind for memories of good and, unlike darklores which would rip dark secrets out, memorias simply remember the person’s memory, and share those memories as much and often as possible.
Memorias now spread throughout all the celestial planes where the River Oceanus runs. Because of it’s teleport matrix ability, Yugoloths use pawns to travel to the upper planes and kill as many of them as possible.

Good Memory (Ex): Any evil creature hit by a memoria takes 1 point of temporary wisdom damage automatically as it is assaulted by images of utter good. A neutral creature must make a Cha-based DC 16 will save to avoid damage. A good creature takes no damage from this attack and instead is healed for 1.

Immunity (Ex): A memoria is immune to a darklore’s bestow evil knowledge ability.

Spell-like Abilities (Sp): At will – light, clairaudience/clairvoyance, detect good/evil, greater teleport (self only), see invisibility, detect thoughts; 3/day – consecrate, greater teleport other. CL=HD, Cha-based DC 11 + spell level.

Teleport Matrix (Su): A memoria can serve as a teleport matrix, allowing anyone who sacrifices a portion of their good memories (as permanent 2 wisdom damage) to use greater teleport (self + 50 lbs only) as a spell-like ability at will. However, the memory must be of pure good, so evil outsiders are unable to use these.

Cohort (ex): once in awhile a memoria might decide to hang around an adventurer to witness for themselves the creation of good memories. Such memorias may become cohorts and stay true to an adventurer of good will.
You hear, in a child-like sing song voice, "I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur!"

That is such a perfect moment you might make a Madman think there's reason to hope. Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye
... even though one of the devious DMing plots on my back burner requires that the Maeldur around, in all his horrid glory, as a kicker for a later apocalyptic minicampaign.

I'm now wondering if we accept the theory of Parallel Planescapes, and a possible later invasion from an alternate universe in which the Maeldur was redeemed. (Hey, if that Farrow wossname can split himself with multiple personality disorder, why can't the Outer Planes as a whole? :D)
You hear, in a child-like sing song voice, "I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur!"

great stuff. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickiel
You hear, in a child-like sing song voice, "I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur!"


That is such a perfect moment you might make a Madman think there's reason to hope. Excuse me, I think I have something in my eye

Thanks! The big Maeldur had forgotten his name for so long that I thought to myself, hey! What would the lil Lantern Archon think when he learns his name?


... even though one of the devious DMing plots on my back burner requires that the Maeldur around, in all his horrid glory, as a kicker for a later apocalyptic minicampaign.

I'm now wondering if we accept the theory of Parallel Planescapes, and a possible later invasion from an alternate universe in which the Maeldur was redeemed. (Hey, if that Farrow wossname can split himself with multiple personality disorder, why can't the Outer Planes as a whole? :D )

Who says we havent? ;) After all, the Multiverse is infinite.

Quote:
You hear, in a child-like sing song voice, "I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur! I'm Maeldur!"



great stuff. :D

Thanks! Now all I gotta do is decide how those lil memorias evolve as they gain more hit dice....
Some how I imagine the Ultraloth(s) in charge recieved a visit like this.

Scheming unhappily in his lair, the beaten Loth beings the necessary paperwork to place a sizable reward on the head of the PC's. Even the screams of petitioners he was burning the details into could not raise his mood, as he wrote down the descriptions of the six that had dared such an audacious feat. Just as he finished and signed his name to the writ, a massive clawed hand wrapped around his elogated skull. Blood dripped down from the figure that held him thus, dripping down between his eyes.

"My Brother is unpleased with what you have cost him, in time and effort. So he has left it to fashion a replacement from you. "

Telepathic screams echo through the plane as the Fleshrender begins his bloody work.
Telepathic screams echo through the plane as the Fleshrender begins his bloody work.

A little bit of background for everyone not in my campaign: the Fleshrender was a Baernaloth of my own creation by the name of Methikus sar Telmuril. Sort of an incarnation of base, physical pain, both sado and masochist wrapped up in one big bloody, habitually self mutilating bundle o' evil.

It fits him, but it sort of seems Architect or Blind Clockmaker 'esque to me in some ways. Definately something I can see the latter do.

And I really like the fish. They're definately a much more positive spin to the dunking of the Maeldur in the Styx, something that stands in stark contrast to my take on the event in the story I'm writing for Daru ib Shamiq at the moment. Really, I'm not depressive in real life. Truly I'm not.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
Scheming unhappily in his lair, the beaten Loth beings the necessary paperwork to place a sizable reward on the head of the PC's. Even the screams of petitioners he was burning the details into could not raise his mood, as he wrote down the descriptions of the six that had dared such an audacious feat. Just as he finished and signed his name to the writ, a massive clawed hand wrapped around his elogated skull. Blood dripped down from the figure that held him thus, dripping down between his eyes.

"My Brother is unpleased with what you have cost him, in time and effort. So he has left it to fashion a replacement from you. "

Telepathic screams echo through the plane as the Fleshrender begins his bloody work.

I'm loving this.

I now feel inclined as to make a quicky description of the six that changed the course of the Blood War.

Leader of the gang: A prime human basher with a taste for greatswords, has gone from mercenary to champion of good. (NG Fighter 15 male prime human)

The artillery: A tiefling spell-slinging b#ch with a penchant for creating very very fun-watching spells to deal with her fiendish brethren. (CG Wizard 13 female planar tiefling)

The face: A debonair man who sings as he strikes and is one of the few bards to EVER make a difference. Likes fine dining, wine, and female aasimar's with generous bosoms. (CG Bard 14 male planar human)

The medic: A holy dwarf with a penchant for elf-jokes and being the rock that fiends and liches trip over...constantly. (LG Cleric 15 male prime dwarf)

The hunter: A seemingly wrathful half-elf lady that calls upon nature and arrows to get the job done. One has to wonder why she ever steps into Sigil. (N Ranger 7/ Druid 8 female planar half-elf)

The brains: An eccentric elf who has a touch for machinery, an eye for finding weak spots, and the hots for the spell slinging tiefer. (CG Rogue 10, De-Constructor 5 male planar elf)

It was 'the brains' that told the Maeldur to take a dunk in the Silver Sea.

And I really like the fish. They're definately a much more positive spin to the dunking of the Maeldur in the Styx, something that stands in stark contrast to my take on the event in the story I'm writing for Daru ib Shamiq at the moment. Really, I'm not depressive in real life. Truly I'm not.

Ahh yes, I think many a cutter is beggining to like the fish. However... we have darklores, memorias, and that's two new things created via dunking.... That's not following the Rules of Three.


So now I'm up to making a new evil BBEG for later adventures.

I'm gonna have so much fun with this.
Ahh yes, I think many a cutter is beggining to like the fish. However... we have darklores, memorias, and that's two new things created via dunking.... That's not following the Rules of Three.

Perhaps there should be a neutral creature type created that feed on memories in general, seeking to expand their own knowledge base. Perhaps they might be called Oliviads and take the form of vaguely bat or bird shaped whisps of irridescent mist.
That creature the "Memoria" reminds me of some Nirvana lyrics, but I can't remember which song. Come as You Are?


Anyway, could you drop the Maeldur into The Silver Sea? It teleports people--albeit without error--but doesn't plane shift them. Did they use alternate means of transport besides the Maeldur itself?
Anyway, could you drop the Maeldur into The Silver Sea? It teleports people--albeit without error--but doesn't plane shift them. Did they use alternate means of transport besides the Maeldur itself?

Fiendish teleportation in 2e was capable of crossplanar transport

"We've had to umm... scale that back..."
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
After all, even immortal schemers make mistakes every one in a long while...

Well yeah, but it's less mistakes in giant plane-crossing schemes and more like this:

The ultroloth mused to itself, "Soon I will crush him, and watch him torment his own mind for aeons..."
"Checkmate", the voice proclaimed, interrupting the internal monologue.
"Damn it!" hissed the ultroloth, "I'll get you next time, Deep Blue!"
Well yeah, but it's less mistakes in giant plane-crossing schemes and more like this:

The ultroloth mused to itself, "Soon I will crush him, and watch him torment his own mind for aeons..."
"Checkmate", the voice proclaimed, interrupting the internal monologue.
"Damn it!" hissed the ultroloth, "I'll get you next time, Deep Blue!"

It is still often the case, however, that no encounter survives its initial encounter. And when you are dealing with that many pawns, one of them is bound to mess up or decide to develop a mind of her/his own. And when you are influencing sentients who aren't under your thumb, it inevitably occurs that one of them does something other than what you expected. And then the chinks start to form... and so it continues.
It is still often the case, however, that no encounter survives its initial encounter. And when you are dealing with that many pawns, one of them is bound to mess up or decide to develop a mind of her/his own. And when you are influencing sentients who aren't under your thumb, it inevitably occurs that one of them does something other than what you expected. And then the chinks start to form... and so it continues.

Hence how this whole freakin bloody thread started up!
One chaotic good guy who didn't promise a certain baernloth a certain something messed the a few centuries worth of plotting.

Or...you could say that... it's not that the pawn develops a mind of its own...

But that eventually, if it's in the game long enough, it will transform into a piece capable of so much more in the great game.
One chaotic good guy who didn't promise a certain baernloth a certain something messed the a few centuries worth of plotting.

IIRC (and it is quite possible I don't since it is usually a minor detail), don't the PC's just promise not to kill the Maeldur? It would obviously vary depending on exactly how you ran it, but I'm think that by the book they promise (on their souls for that matter) not to kill it, but the dunking it in the Styx is just given as an alternative.
IIRC (and it is quite possible I don't since it is usually a minor detail), don't the PC's just promise not to kill the Maeldur? It would obviously vary depending on exactly how you ran it, but I'm think that by the book they promise (on their souls for that matter) not to kill it, but the dunking it in the Styx is just given as an alternative.

Aye. Daru tells them how to find and free the Maeldur only if they promise not to kill it. The Maeldur itself is responsible for the dip in the Styx. Once it knows how to free itself by what the PCs tell it via Daru, it only wishes to forget what it knows and what Daru whispered to it eons ago that corrupted it in the first place.

Now in a story I'm writing at the moment, Daru takes on a much more active and sinister role in it all, with some added allusions to Daru as a dark reflection of John the Baptist for which I'm sure to earn myself some time in heck.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
This speculation is full enough of details to really give away quite a lot. As always, any of my players reading something that I've labled as spoiler material will have all of their ShadowRun characters filled with so many bullets from Riddle that even the phoenix shaman will be dead twice over.

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Now in a story I'm writing at the moment, Daru takes on a much more active and sinister role in it all

I always got the impression that Daru was actually putting the last part of the plan into motion (despite the quest implying that he felt sorry about what he had done so long ago and his lack of care about the yugoloths of today). As he says himself, "I was always thorough."

Also there is this sinister bit.
Swear that you will free the Maeldur - swear upon your souls - and I will tell you how to find it.

If the Maeldur takes a Styx bath, it never was really free. It was never outside the machinations of the 'Loths. Even if you don't buy that, it never had more freedom than a prisoner dashing across the Prison's courtyard in a vain attempt to escape. If the PC's tell the Maeldur that it can forget all of its pain, they are damning themselves along with it.
An excerpt from what I'm working on:

It’s just a tiny little thing, a small little lie, a half-truth really. You tell it to yourself, you rationalize, and eventually you forget it started that way as you come to believe it yourself ultimately by repetition. This happens to us all you see; falsehood borne of weakness, complacence, and unwillingness to accept consequences. That is how it starts. That is the first change before it goes further and further along the descending, ever falling, downward spiral into habit and malice.

Like a rogue cell in one’s breast, one tiny, minuscule change that begins this moral cancer. It’s like the mutation that initiates that cascade of more and more corruptions towards the inevitable tumor. And, like a bodily, physical cancer these lies begin within ourselves; a potential that waits within us all. You have only to whisper it and it begins, harmless at first like that single cell, but in the end leads to pain and death. Release it. You have only to release it, unlock that potential and spread its misery.

It’s just a tiny little thing, a single little lie: “I actually regret it you see, what I did to the solar, the Maeldur et Kavurik.”

***

Time passed, indeterminate and inchoate. Maeldur stood and shivered, and only gradually did he become aware of the hands of the fiend upon his back. Only now they didn’t feel so very instinctively repulsive, rather they felt comforting in a way that can only exist between persons who have seen the very same horrors. Something had changed between them, and something had changed within the solar himself.

“What did you see?” Daru asked, his voice suddenly less cold and distant.

“Darkness staring back at me. Heaven’s gates sealed and locked and we did nothing against the forces of evil. How could we… staring back at me… how could she…” Maeldur trembled and wept.

Daru cradled the head of the Solar like a parent to a child, a lover to their partner, priest to confessioner, “Come and sit with us. Let me tell you more. Now listen, and listen closely my friend, for there is much to discuss.”

***

"But, as I told you, I regret what we did to him. I regret it even now. Trust me. Trust me like they all did."
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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