d20 Warhammer 40,000 Website

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How big is it?
Roughly 10 meg. I think the images may be pumping up the size a bit.

I can send the .tex files to anyone with a pdflatex compiler. I imagine that's not a lot of you, though.
.tex? Huh?
Is that the raw, editable form of a .pdf?
Roughly 10 meg. I think the images may be pumping up the size a bit.

This was why I chose not to do images in my PDF file yet. (go to www.d20projects.com to see it... feel free to register, you have to in order to download it, and you can contact Durrant or Aussiegamer there about getting a forum of your own for your projects)
.tex? Huh?
Is that the raw, editable form of a .pdf?

It's a bit like writing in html. You type it all out in a raw text file, then run it through the compiler, which produces a pdf file.

Here's the wikipedia entry on LaTeX. It tends to be included as standard on most Linux and Unix machines, but you'll have to download something like MiKTeX to run it on Windows.
This was why I chose not to do images in my PDF file yet. (go to www.d20projects.com to see it... feel free to register, you have to in order to download it, and you can contact Durrant or Aussiegamer there about getting a forum of your own for your projects)

Smart choice. I shall jaunt over there and have a look.
If anyones curious its pronounced 'Law-Tex' not 'Lay-Tex' a mistake I made early on which was met with an orgy of laughter from the Linux users around me.
If anyones curious its pronounced 'Law-Tex' not 'Lay-Tex' a mistake I made early on which was met with an orgy of laughter from the Linux users around me.

Actually, it's pronounced lah-tek.
"The Imperium is nazi-Germany and soviet Russia
put together, with the spanish inquisition thrown in for good measure..."
-N J

A really good way of explaining the Imperium...no?
Soviet Russia? Nah... not even close. Germany? Too modern / too educated. (Thats what makes what happened so mind-bogglingly horrifying - these were intelligent men - not religious fundies like in the Spanish Inquistion.)

The closest thing you said was the Spanish Inquisiton. Ultimately though, I always think the best way to describe the Imperium is to think of it as the Dark Ages.

The Imperium is gripped in age of madness and mysticism. Here, a quote from the fluff bible that sums it up:

"In many respects it is a time of superstition, in which a great and unfathomable technology has been enslaved to the forces of mysticism and madness. To the ordinary humans of these times, the peasants in the fields and the warriors amongst the stars, scientific thought represents an abhorrent perversity; a corruption of honour and religious virtue. Even to those few humans who deal with the material of technology, the science and the magic have become largely inseparable; the warp engine must have runes upon its side, the laser gun requires the blessing of the Gods of Battle.
This is a universe in which the gods, mysticism and magic are real. For this is a time of great change within humanity itself, a time when more and more humans are developing powers and a vision far beyond those of their ancestors. Humans developing these abilities are known as psychics, or psykers, and by many less flattering names - the most common being that of witch. Psykers are men and women who have the ability to transcend the normal laws of space, placing them in touch with great universal forces which lie far beyond the understanding of their kin. Their gifts defy explanation; telepathy, telekinesis, illusion, and countless others. Many ordinary humans attribute these powers to a divine origin. Some psykers claim their powers enable them to tap forces which he under the control of entities existing outside of the real universe - beyond normal time and space. Others seek a rational explanation for these phenomena - but this is not a rational age and they are few and their voice is weak."


Basically you need to represent a society like the Imperium's you need to go way further back than Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany. These two are 20th Century! You need to think of the Imperium as the German city-states during the times when Rome was being sacked by the Goths and the Vandals.

Each state (planet?) was practically autonomous save for one unifying thing. The church. Which held in its hands a terrific power because they controlled the paranoia and superstition that Europe was rank with at the time. Warhammer 40,000 is a throw back to these mad deluded periods of our history.
well i can see some of the things that he says would fit; the soviet thingy is the most diffuse, basically the closest to it is that the planets in the imperium has to pay alot of taxes so that the imperium can produce weaponry and other things(and probably the amount of corruption there is within communism would also be apparent).

the nazism i would rather put closer towards fascism, but there is naturally parts of both around. the imperial cult preaches against aliens as the only pure thing is the human body. mutants, both psychically and physically, are usually hunted, but they are allowed to exist in places where religion aint too important...well at least the physically mutated ones(necromunda has plenty of these, but its rarely you see some global cleansing there, because there are more dangerous threats around the galaxy).

The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that
* exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual
* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition
* engages in severe economic and social regimentation
* engages in corporatism
* implements totalitarianism

most of these asterix's fit for the imperium, the ones im not sure about would be corporatism and "engages in severe economic and social regimentation"

that they were intelligent and educated beings usually isnt the main point in 40k, there are people who are educated, but the average joe is probably a bit above Baldwick[black adder henchman if you don't know him] in charisma and intelligence :P
I actually agree with everything you said, except:

* uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition

I don't think the Imperium uses a lot of propoganda - its more of a religious indoctrination thing. Censorship is a big yes though. Perhaps you're right though.

After all the eagle (the Imperial's symbol) was one of the symbols both Germany and Italy adopted during the rise of fascism. I guess the eagle (proud, impressive, domineering) is a good animal for a totalitarian state.
i would say that the ecclesiarch is the Goebbles of the imperium. having good control over the mob is very important when you got an empire which is uncounted billions large.
I would more or less think that the Imperium is ruled much like the Romans (during the imperial times, not the republic) were. You have different religious sects that all owe allegiance to the almight Emperor. Even the description of the Emperors shining light in the void could be considered much like the roads of ancient times (All roads lead to Rome) and thats how many navigated back then and in WH40K, as well.. the Eagle was a strongly represented throughout the empire.

The orcs are much like the germanic barbarians.. the Eldars, much like the persians.. you name it, its pretty much represented in WH40K. However thats a bias of mine since the epics of fantasy or sci-fi take roots in ancient historical lore in a lot of my games.
I guess the eagle (proud, impressive, domineering) is a good animal for a totalitarian state.

That is an interesting observation with the way the US is moving politically at this time...
That is an interesting observation with the way the US is moving politically at this time...

See, this is about a half an inch from violating the Code of Conduct. That's why I didn't say it, I don't want this thread to be locked and deleted.

No further current, real world political discussions.
Nerdvana: Oops! Sorry, I honestly didn't make that association when I posted. I apologize to anyone who thought the eagle comment was directed at the US. I feel like a dumbass. Gunrock is right, if you have real world political opinions there are probably better places for them.

xMatch: Heh! One just needs to look at the Ultramarines range to see that your point about Warhammer 40,000 being an Empire similar to the Roman one is dead on. Thats probably where the two-headed eagle comes from in fact.
Well.. lets just put it this way.. watching Troy (which I actually thought was a good movie contrary to a lot of my friends opinions), all I could do was think how this would play in WH40K. The thousand ship fleet heading to conquer a rival.. the myrmidons (aka, Space Marines) were the first to charge the beaches. How well organized everything had to be in order to conduct a battle.

You have an epic story.. which.. is what WH40K is all about.

A real interesting conversion is having The Odyssey as your point of reference in a Warhammer 40k theme.. it plays out interestingly well. Just substitute here and there as you see fit and you'll have an interesting campaign.

Or for those who are a bit less romantic in their epics.. try the Roman Campaign into England to beat back the barbarian hordes and establish a stronghold that divides the island in half. Instead of Julius Ceaser you have young Charismatic Leader of the Imperium who is leading his legions to victory in the name of glory for the Emperor.

As well.. you have Spartacus and his war on the empire. (though this doesn't mean that the pcs work for the Chaos, they could just be slaves turned revolutionaries). You have Christianity being introduced to the masses, turning the empire into a christian state.
You have so much to draw upon for campaign ideas with WH40k its nearly insane.

As well the setting allows for other things.. like the Spanish Inquisition.. the witch hunts.. perhaps even the Witch Trials of the new world, where as the Imperium has recently come upon a new portion of space never before explored and colonization happens en mass.. however with the extreme distance from the emperor, the torch of the Imperium may be dim and the chaos blooms around these newly colonized worlds..

Check out a good history book on Roman History and military campaigns, you'd find it worth your time.
Also.. on a final note.. it caught me funny when I noticed that the Imperial Legions all carry banners into battle.. something, that.. well, practically started with the Romans on a large scale.
See, this is about a half an inch from violating the Code of Conduct. That's why I didn't say it, I don't want this thread to be locked and deleted.

You are right. My bad. I was just pointing out the animal's breadth of use.
hm, i really feel like pushing a bit about that political thingy(in a constructive manner that is), but i don't want to go there if it affects this thread...



anyway, one thing i've been a bit bothered about tonite(no, no more psychic stuff as of yet :p):

defence, is there objects that can effect your defence value without messing around too much with the dex modifier too much? as armor is not a part of your defence anymore, but used as DR, armor is better at stopping damage, and weapons are better at dealing damage. thus a guy who doesnt have too much armor(and then most likely, not too much HP) would in theory have a worse day at work than the tough hero-space marine with 20con.

i know that fast heroes get better defence bonuses, but thats just like each time you level. armor you can build on and patch up and add +3 bonuses to among other things. what i would like to see is some things that has bonuses to defence directly, so that armor is not your first choice of avoiding damage.

for instance, a proper callidus assasin would be able to dogde and weave around bullets, and combat drugs should give some people a proper matrix-trip :p. [i.e. some cybernetic implants which gives bonus to initiative could also give bonus to defence.]

also, such things should be effected by the armor that the user wears, so that for example a "matrix-drug" doesnt work if the character is wearing an armor that has a max dex limit of 6. that way, people in power-armor wouldnt be able to do a bullet-dodge move.


to sums things up, in a grim dark future, not everyone wants to take a lascannon-shot to their chest :P
I would think that anything which would make you harder to hit would affect Defense. i.e., the harlequin's holo-field, etc...Look at the Grey Knights' shrouding and the like...you could concievably have a holographic projector that does the same thing, or combat drugs which boost your dex and reflexes, providing an extra bonus to Reflex saves and Defense.
Use your imagination, eh.
defence, is there objects that can effect your defence value without messing around too much with the dex modifier too much? as armor is not a part of your defence anymore, but used as DR, armor is better at stopping damage, and weapons are better at dealing damage.

Yes. Here's a list:

Chameleoline (concealment), Precognition Cybernetic Implants, Holo-Fields, Displacer Fields, Void Field, Refractor Fields, Iron Halos, Rosarius Fields, Projectile Deflectors - uh -

Basically aside from the concealment one and the precognition implant the answer is forcefields.

Uh. Here's the real answer.

I don't have any forcefields up on the site yet. So here's a temporary Forcefield List:

Projectile Deflector: +1 Defense
Refractor Field: +2 Defense
Rosarius Field: +3 Defense
Displacer Field: +4 Defense
Iron Halo: +5 Defense
Powerfield (imperial): +6 Defense
Holo-field (eldar): +6 Defense
Void Field (eldar): +7 Defense
Salamander Mantle (imperial): +8 Defense
Dark Eldar Shadow Field: +10 Defense
Kustom Forcefield (ork): +2d6 Defense (roll at the beginning of each round)
Tau Shield Drone: +3 Defense*
Tau Shield Generator: +5 Defense
*multiple drones stack defense bonuses

-----------------------------------------

Also the following shields are commonly used:

Small Shield: +1 Defense
Medium Shield: +2 Defense
Arbiter Riot Shield: +3 Defense
Marine Combat Shield: +4 Defense
Crusader Combat Shield: +5 Defense
Terminator Storm Shield: +6 Defense
Squat Force Shield: +8 Defense
PROBLEM!

Unlike armour, I don't have any kind of scaled feat system, so the only thing preventing your players from snagging the very best shield/forcefield is their budget.

Use with care. ;) A character who manages to buy a Salamander Mantle, a Storm Shield and has a +5 Precog chip will be sporting a +19 Def bonus. And that's without chameleoline... wow! No feats required.

Anyone with advice on balancing forcefields is welcome to offer council.
Only let the bonuses go up to +3. 3 seems to be the magic number in Modern. MC stops at +3, enhancement bonuses stop at +3.
The struggle is that there's more than 3 different kinds of shields / forcefields to put in the game.

The forcefields/shields range from 6+ invulnerable saves (riot shield /refractor), to 5+ invulnerable saves (combat shield / holo-field), to 4+ (storm shield / rosarius), to 3+ (wraith forcefield / force dome) to even a 2+ invulnerable save (dark eldar shadowfield).

That's just game stuff. The difference is more fine-tuned when you read the fluff about the various forcefields and shields carried. Surely I can't represent all the variation using only one of three numbers?
So make three kinds of force fields, ranging from +1 to +3, and make them masterwork-able.
Just posting a good link...

www.damnatus.com

A 40k movie project (seems to be going good...better than that ill-fated Exile Films production).
These guys even have a soundtrack out (which is SO getting played at the next D20 40k game I G.M.!!!).

Yet again, I implore you not to go the Revisionist route with regard to our friends the Squat/Demiurg.
The struggle is that there's more than 3 different kinds of shields / forcefields to put in the game.

The forcefields/shields range from 6+ invulnerable saves (riot shield /refractor), to 5+ invulnerable saves (combat shield / holo-field), to 4+ (storm shield / rosarius), to 3+ (wraith forcefield / force dome) to even a 2+ invulnerable save (dark eldar shadowfield).

That's just game stuff. The difference is more fine-tuned when you read the fluff about the various forcefields and shields carried. Surely I can't represent all the variation using only one of three numbers?

Well, I'm pretty sure the dark eldar shadowfield could be best represented by a miss chance rather than a bonus to defense. Given its incredible save, perhaps the shadowfield gives you 'full concealment' so you have a 50% miss chance when attacking someone wearing it?
but then again, anything that aint getting through the defence does miss the character altogether. a good list that is, should balance things out a bit when armor doesnt apply to the defence.
Fatal Error: Fair point that. I had just planned on (as a general rule) armour = Dr, and invulnerable armour = Defense Bonus.

I guess the shadow field in particular (due to fluff reasons) is more appropriately handled as a concealment bonus than as a forcefield bonus. Even though the name shadow field suggests, you know, some kind of field. :D

Yet again, I implore you not to go the Revisionist route with regard to our friends the Squat/Demiurg.

I'm sorry. So scatterbrained.... What would you like me not to revise? Their general presence?

Thanks for the Damnatus link. I forgot about that. I remember seeing an article about it but I had never seen the trailer.
one thing about shields in 40k is that they have a nasty tendency to implode at the wrong times, either because of problems with the generator, or because the shield has taken too much damage and overloads the generator.

there probably should be a feat for proficiency for the forcefields, and the forcefields should be divided into different groups:
*simple forcefield profiency (+1 - 3 forcefields )


*advanced forcefield profiency (+4 - 6 forcefields)


*exotic forcefield profiency (+7 - ? forcefields, you probably have to choose this feat for each forcefield above) [prerequisite: advanced forcefield profiency]







hehe, i like things that is a bit advanced, so the next part would be typically me(compulsory):

shields needs to be turned on to be effective. unless the owner has cubernetic implants connected to control the fields, it would require an move action to start up the shield.

crude forcefields have a nasty tendency to make alot of noise, alot of energies would float around the owner, making it difficult to recognize him. any spot check vs users with crude forcefields gets a +10, listen checks +6. there would be bonuses to a disguise check because of the blurring effect of the field, but that depends on the situation(how often do you check who's coming for you with a forcefield on anyway).
crude shields also affect the users senses, -5 to spot and listen checks



normal fields have a tendency to make a charging sound as you start them up, giving targets nearby a +2 to listen checks that round. the field is however invisible as long as it isnt hit by something.

advanced/exotic fields
flawless technology doesnt make alot of noise. people trying to hit a target with such fields might not even realise the target has a shield on. -6 on spot checks when trying to find out if the target has a forcefield.



even more diffuse rules which i personally would love to play around with :p :

forcefield breakdowns:

a forcefield needs to be maintained if it is to save someone's skin. a knowledge[technology] check is required after a certain amount of activations where it was used.(i.e. a +3 forcefield should be checked after each 3rd activation). each activation over the allotted time subtracts 1 from the last knowledge[technology] roll for the forcefield. this check requires prox 30 minutes.

if a forcefield is forced to take too many shots, it might turn itself off, or if murphy is your friend, implode without warning. if a shot that normally would have hit the target if it wasnt for the forcefield(i.e a character which has 23 in defence, including a forcefield which gives +3 defence, is attacked and the attacker rolls 22, he hits the forcefield), the forcefield is soaking damage. Depending on the amount of defence the shield gives the user, you can calculate how many times it can be hit before it needs to take a stability check(i.e. a +3 shield can take 3 hits before becoming unstable)

PS. certain weapons might cause the forcefields for take more hits than there are shots. grenades would most likely have the same effect as 2 shots, a large artillery shell might give around 3-4 shots...


the stabilisation roll consists of the last knowledge[technology] roll that was rolled for the forcefield, (including any subtractions because of an excess amount of activations), and the defence bonus of the forcefield. the DM desides the DC, depending on the weapons fired at the forcefield.
[example]
small arms: DC 8
medium arms: DC 12
heavy weaponry: DC 18
heavy ordnance DC 26
incredible scary weapons: DC 36

if the DC is passed, the shield manages to withstand the punishment.
if the roll is <10 under the DC, the forcefield deactivates to cool down
if the roll is >10 under the DC, the forcefield implodes, doing [forcefield defence bonus]d10 [erm, whatever damage the implosion spell would do]damage.
WOW! This is the kind of jiucy forcefield ruling we needed.

I know, I know, there are a lot of complicated rules already - but if simplicity means poor balance, by all means make things complex!

I'll have a look at designing some good forcefield rules using your outline strategy.

I'm particularly pleased at how you've justified having varying feat levels. Somehow the idea that forcefields need activating, know-how and that they make noise(!) really never crossed my mind.

This is really original; and the dodgy mechanics makes for some quality 40k ambient stuff.

Thanks, duke.
Would that also be a good rule to supplement to the startship shields?
Those need to be streamlined somewhat. In particular, the mechanic used to see if a blast would have hit the user were it not for the field requires too much extra bookkeeping. I might have a crack at it later...
1.no problem. as long as some of my gibbering can be used, im pleased.



2.hmm, the usual cause of ships going down often is because the shield generators stop working and the shield implodes, so thats a possibility, but then again, there would have to be a certain amount of damage caused to the generators first. although the part about stealth and noise probably wouldnt count when it comes to superheavy starships(hehe, unless you're one hell of an sneaky bastard that is, hehe i can imagine the scenario)




3.well, the system would be relatively easy to find out, since you most likely would have to write down the two different defence values you got because the forcefield needs to be activated to be used, and have a tendency to deactivate now and then. basically a forcefield should be considered a double edged sword. it can indeed stop the most grievous wounds, but when it fails, you're lucky to be alive afterwards. im more nervous that the knowledge check might be a bit more work than figuring out if the forcefield gets hit or not.






another thing i've realised, the dark eldar wyches has a 4+ invurnerable save when in close combat, known as "wych dodge"(don't have the codex around, just the army builder).

it might become overkill in the end, but would it be feasible with different feats that give people extra defence bonuses?

"Dodge Bullets

At 8th level, the Blade Dancer can use his weapon to deflect missiles in the air, including arrows, spears, bolts, and bullets. This is a supernatural ability and costs an action point to activate.

The Blade Dancer may spend an action point to allow a Reflex save (DC 20). If he succeeds, he avoids a specific ranged attack. If used successfully against a grenade attack the grenade automatically scatters (as normal rules) and then explodes."



this one is perhaps pretty close to that, when one thinks about it. but considering that a lvl 20 fast hero/blade-dancer would have a class bonus of +14 to defence, saying that he has like 16 in dexterity wouldnt be too imprudent, thus giving him a +3 in dex modifier.

a total defence of 27 at lvl 20, and then you can add forcefields on top of that again, which can give the character a +7 bonus if he's a nasty dark eldar, thus having 34 in defence.

i might pull back my theory on adding more stuff that gives bonuses to defence, if this sounds like a properly reasonable number for people.



then again, with some more advanced rules on forcefields, people might be a bit more careful about using them all too often, so other things that helps out might be needed. but personally i might think that there wouldnt be much need for more help to defence.
With regard to Squat/Demiurg, I just ask that they be kept around on the site, and if feasible, given a section on the Source Files (you can find plenty of Squat codexes for 3rd edition online).

With regard to this whole eagle thing...unless I am much mistaken, the Eagle has been a symbol of power for millenia. The Double Headed Eagle came in to use when the Empire partly split, each head symbolising an Emperor.
When the Western Empire fell, the East kept the symbol, which is why it winds up as an Albanian symbol, and as a symbol of Turkey, but also for the scattered remnants of the Byzantian Empire (which is to say, small monestaries all throughout Eastern Europe and the Eastern Mediteranean which still refuse to acknowledge Byzantia's fall, and consider themselves outside national control). Makes you wonder as to the Emperor's origins, if he uses a Double Headed Eagle as opposed to a regular Eagle, or a Fascii (spelling?) (a symbol of ancient rome, Fascism, as well as Mussolini's Roman Empire, but also sitting in I think Congress in the U.S. [ominous]).
note on damage: The damage dice are similar to those of d20 Modern, but it is assumed that with better medicine and better technology weapons of the Dark Millenium are less likely to effectively kill their target despite being superior.

hmm, a friend of mine tried out the rules, but he found the damage reduction to be too powerful. sending two space marines against each other(DR of 18, bolters does 2d10 damage, average 11, around 10% chance of doing 1-2 points of damage) was pretty useless. frag grenades bounces off mesh armor and the likes like dust, which doesnt really make sence compared to the 40k system(even lasguns can bring down a terminator with enough shots).

i havent tried it out myself yet, but i got a bad feeling that weapons might not do enough damage, or the DR is just too powerful...

i like the idea that armor would work like damage reduction, but constantly reducing damage is just gonna cause aggravation when people have weapons which barely does damage to an opponent...



one thing that comes to mind here is the rules about soaking damage from the old vampire; the masquerade rulebooks. you get a certain amount of dice that represent your armor, and the more successes the more you soak(its really a thrill to roll soak damage, since you can either live or die because of it :P). it might be a possibility, but then again, the rules are just getting more and more advanced.
If you read a little bit before in the thread you'll find that armour is one of the things I'll be streamlining.

I also intend to add more NPC stats.

Keep in mind most Space Marines fire double taps or some even burst shots. All Space Marines probably have point blank shot. So they'll be doing 2d10+1 rather than 2d10 even on a single shot.

A DR of 18/4 is reduced to 9 by DRP 2 so if you calculate double taps as being 3d10+1 or 17 average and bursts being 4d10+1 or 23 average you're looking at marines that deal 8 or 14 points average damage per shot.

Some marines get multiple shots per round if they're high level. (Of course that means they have more HP as well!)

Anyway, the power of armour will be somewhat reduce, but mostly the gameplay will be speeded up and simplified.
Okay, the charsheets are ready. I have some supersized Photoshop files or i could export them in another format - maybe manhattan could relieve me of the task of making pdf´s from it ? (if yes , mail me under the adress i gave last time) My players were satisfied with them, lets see what you guys think

My first session GM`ing D20 WH40K begins tonight, and i still have so many holes in my story...you could fly a black fortesss through it - bwah

One more question: I noticed the Navigator advanced class gives mystic psyker levels. That means this character can navigate through the warp, is most likely a noble member of society, gaze you to hell and back with his third eye and casts spells. I guess i will have to cut his abilitys back or the rest of the group will give *me* gazing attacks of burning GM death. Is it balanced if i change those Mystic Psyker Levels into freely selectable Bonus Feats ? I never noticed Navigators using Psychic Powers in the novels...
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