M10: Best Multiplayer Cards

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Hi folks,
apologies for taking a while to get this thread up - I've been on my back with the flu since the prerelease.
Anyway, usual rules. Name what you consider to be the best multiplayer card in the 2010 Core Set. I'll keep a tally here.
Fire away!
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4 Votes - Hive Mind

3 Votes - Acidic Slime
3 Votes - Lurking Predators
3 Votes - Sanguine Bond
3 Votes - Xathrid Demon

2 Votes - Burning Inquiry
2 Votes - Magma Phoenix
2 Votes - Sleep

1 Vote - Canyon Minotaur ;)
1 Vote - Earthquake
1 Vote - Planar Cleansing
1 Vote - Twincast
1 Vote - Underworld Dreams
1 Vote - Warp World
~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
Budget Duals and Fetches in Multiplayer
CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
Multiplayer Tribal Format

~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Rise of the Eldrazi Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Worldwake Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Zendikar Post-Rotation
Previous Multiplayer Concoctions
Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
Faerie Bleeder (The "Death By A Thousand Cuts" Faerie deck)
Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
Xathrid Demon IMO. It's a massive, evasive beater with a low cost who has a great, repeatable MP effect. It's the kind of card you can build an entire deck around, or just toss in an existing one. It also has great synergy with other cards in the set, such as Howling Banshee, which is always a bonus in my book. I like cards that can win the game multiple ways, and aren't reliant on everything going right to be good. As long as you have a few creatures this guy is a house, and that's good enough for me.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Acidic Slime gets my vote. It's like Indrik Stomphowler reincarnated as an Ooze Assassin. It takes care of a pesky problem card when it enters the battlefield and can then do some work as a rattlesnake to ward off attackers. At the very least, you get a 2 for 1. Great utility.

I think that Lurking Predators also deserves mention, but I can only vote for one, so Acidic Slime it is.
howl of the night looks alright (as it did back shadowmoor)

Best new card in m10? (new being not a functional reprint): magma phoenix maybe?

But my vote is behind earthquake for the obvious reasons. :D
I was waiting for this thread.

Obvious answer is obvious with Planar Cleansing, but that is so boring.

I agree with Tich that Xatrid Demon is probably the best. He does so much and Tich already stated it.

The runner-up has got to be Lurking Predator though. Free creatures is free creatures. Find someway to protect your enchantment and your golden.
Going to second [c]Acidic Slime[/C]. It's card advantage and can take out a lot of utility cards, in addition to having Deathtouch.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I'm still kicking myself that I didn't have a decklist ready and waiting for me to trade for a playset of lurking predators at the prerelease.

I only have one...sad times...

sanguine bond is absolutely sick, i have a mono black deck itching for a couple of these.

...It also likes HAUNTING ECHOES!! A classic, but always great in long, drawn out multiplayer games: "tap 5, remove anything useful in your library from the game"

Just never use it in EDH. I know somebody out there must have.
Solid recommendations all, yet I vote Burning Inquiry for faster games.
A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
While I definitely like Acidic Slime (he is going into my 'lark deck after all), I don't find him to be the best MP card by a long shot. He is great, don't get me wrong, but he pales in comparison to the other cards mentioned as far as MP goes.

And I forgot about Sanguine Bond, that card is sick & I didn't get any from my box.
hive Mind is my favorite so far :D
I agree with the above but thought I would add instead of replicate:

Twincast: Back in revised I played in a 50m battle-circle tourney. Winner takes all. About turn 4 someone cast Wheel of Fortune and it was Forked atleast six times. This spell it just fun and invariably leads to facepalms.

Underworld Dreams: A classic, I hope everyone here can figure out why this belongs here.

Warp World: This is just begging to be played in battle circles. It may not be a game winner, but it will be hella-fun.
While I definitely like Acidic Slime (he is going into my 'lark deck after all), I don't find him to be the best MP card by a long shot. He is great, don't get me wrong, but he pales in comparison to the other cards mentioned as far as MP goes.

And I forgot about Sanguine Bond, that card is sick & I didn't get any from my box.

That's one of the great things about Acidic Slime: It gets in well under the radar while still serving its purpose beautifully. When you lay Xathrid Demon down on the table, everyone's reaction is going to be "Kill it! Kill it!" or worse, "Kill all of his other creatures!" Acidic Slime isn't likely to make anyone feel threatened, being a 2/2 body. If we were talking about the most powerful M10 multiplayer card, the demon would get my vote, but he's such a presence on the board that I think that the slime is better. Not the most powerful by a long shot, but I feel it's the best. Didn't Wall of Denial do pretty well in its respective thread?

PS- Sanguine Bond is such an awesome card. Lifegain FTW!
So, I guess it turns out like the previous thread, those who voted for Lord of Extinction go for Demon, and those who voted for Vall go for Ooze? :D

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

The difference is perspective. One argument provided against the demon is that it's a "must answer" card. People argue that becoming a target is a bad thing. Personally, I don't mind taking control of the reigns. I want everyone scrambling to find an answer to me rather than working on winning the game themselves.

I look at the Ooze and see a 2/2 Deathtouch for 5 mana. Yes, it's going to blow something up, but in multiplayer a 2 for 1 isn't really that special. I like the demon because in a 10 player game, I have a win condition that beats 10 players. To me the best card has to be something special, something that changes the dynamic of the game.

When I think of green, and the creatures it can get for 5 mana, a 2/2 Deathtouch seems so trivial. At 5 mana you can get a creatures that doesn't just trade, it outright kills any other creature and lives to tell the tale because that's what green does. I know that's not the case in M10, but it's not like anyone does block multiplayer. If the card doesn't have a home in MP past this one set, it can't be that good.

This is where the Demon really shines in my book. It gives black something new. Black has always had very big creatures with "drawbacks." It's their specialty. Now, finally, we have one that costs a lot less relatively speaking, but uses that drawback as an advantage in MP. This is a "new" card in my book. There isn't an existing card that can take it's place. I like that, and that's what did it for me.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Canyon Minotaur

it's hard to beat a big hammer
Just in case nobody knows my position, I vote for sanguine bond. It turns a resource into a weapon. Kinda like jellied gasoline(napalm).
So, I guess it turns out like the previous thread, those who voted for Lord of Extinction go for Demon, and those who voted for Vall go for Ooze? :D

The difference is perspective.

Yeah, it's an interesting question. Very much the Gorilla card vs. the Rattlesnake card. We'll swing towards the different types depending on our playgroups.
Personally, the Gorillas last about a nanosecond in my playgroup at the moment - I'm in with a bunch of very experienced players who know a threat when they see it. To that end, I'm probably going to be voting for something subtle and potentially rattlesnake-ish.
Though I haven't had the time (or the health) to get a full indepth look at the spoiler yet. My vote is coming soon.
~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
Budget Duals and Fetches in Multiplayer
CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
Multiplayer Tribal Format

~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Rise of the Eldrazi Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Worldwake Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Zendikar Post-Rotation
Previous Multiplayer Concoctions
Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
Faerie Bleeder (The "Death By A Thousand Cuts" Faerie deck)
Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
FWIW, my vote is for Magma Phoenix.
I've played with Shard Phoenix a lot - weenie removal and a decent evasive body that can be recursed. A bigger, badder version was always going to have a lot going for it. So long as you have a decent sac outlet handy, this guy is just unstoppable.
~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
Budget Duals and Fetches in Multiplayer
CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
Multiplayer Tribal Format

~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Rise of the Eldrazi Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Worldwake Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Zendikar Post-Rotation
Previous Multiplayer Concoctions
Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
Faerie Bleeder (The "Death By A Thousand Cuts" Faerie deck)
Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)


Actually, this thread brings about an interesting question as to what is the criteria upon which the "best" card can be judged. If it is based off utility, the acidic slime would get the vote, but if it is based off the ability to end games, xathrid demon seems to be the optimal choice. The potential problem with these criteria is that they tend assume a somewhat neutral, if not favorable, scenarios in which they are allowed room to maneuver.

In my point of view, the "best" card is the card that, when drawn at any point of the game, has the highest probability to prevent losses. Assuming that there are 3 game states (you are the aggressor and thus a target, you are the target of an aggressor, you are the observer) the "best" card would be the one that at best will maximize your chances of winning and at worst minimize your chances of losing (either by winning or drawing the game).

Given these game states, the cards you play will either elevate you as the target or do nothing to affect your relative position (in some instances it can even reduce your position by making someone else the threat). Thus I think that the most challenging part of picking the best card lies in the ability to visualize which card will maximize your outcome in the worst case scenario. Given the least room to maneuver, which card offers the highest chance to minimize losses? After all, all the mentioned cards can win you the game given a favorable scenario.

Assuming their relative worst case scenarios, drawing the slime may stop you from losing but the probability if you winning from it is pretty low. On the other hand, drawing the demon doesn't seem likely to minimize the chances of losing, though it would certainly maximize chances to win given more favorable circumstances. (rhetorical question: maybe the "power" of the card isn't always the best criteria for the best MP card?)

Thus, I come to my original pick: earthquake. Yes it is boring and unexciting. It is unimaginative and lacks any real "wow" factor. But in all three game states, it seems to have the most potential to minimize losses and maximize wins. Magma phoenix comes in as a close second in my books only because it is more difficult to control and thus has a lower chance to satisfy said conditions. This ability to control the effect is also why I picked the quake over lurking predators even though that card is also very good a minimizing losses in the worst case scenario.

Haha I realized how boring this might sound to people but hey, with Ferret gone, someone's got to critically analyze new cards with the mindset of MP strategy amiright? :D

As always I welcome criticism and questions alike.

I'm going to go with sleep. It might not seem that potent at first glance, but it taps a player's whole team down for two turns...which is essentially a death sentence in multiplayer games.
Obvious answer is obvious with Planar Cleansing, but that is so boring.

Fine then, I'll vote for it! Planar Cleansing is my choice.
Haha I realized how boring this might sound to people but hey, with Ferret gone, someone's got to critically analyze new cards with the mindset of MP strategy amiright? :D

s for your analysis!

Suspect this thread needs a bump now that it's fallen off the front page.
We can't have four cards drawn at the top on two votes, people! :D
~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
Budget Duals and Fetches in Multiplayer
CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
Multiplayer Tribal Format

~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Rise of the Eldrazi Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Worldwake Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Zendikar Post-Rotation
Previous Multiplayer Concoctions
Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
Faerie Bleeder (The "Death By A Thousand Cuts" Faerie deck)
Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
Everyone will of course love the new dual lands. Having a good mana base is always a plus in any deck.

A lot of tribes got a serious boost to their effectiveness. I don't normaly consider Lord type cards the best cards for MP.

Burning Inquiry-Will likely spawn a bunch of Megrim, discard decks since it fixes one of the problems that Megrim normally suffers once your opponents are in top deck mode.
Telepathy-(reprint) Always a good card in MP since it shows everyone everyone elses board position {except its controller}. Casting this turn one puts a big target on whomever is showing combo cards, and lets everyone discuss who they think the threat is. This usually isn't the person playing Telepathy, unless that person happens to be playing combo.
Silence-This will become the new combo enabler, forcing opponents to counter it to prevent you from winning that turn.
Soul Warden-(reprint) I have already expoused on the virtues of this common in my Guide to White MP.
Protean Hydra-This one looks promising and can easily fit into a Pestilence/Phyrohemia deck.
Gorgon Flail-This will find its way into a pestilence creature deck alongside Lashknife Barrier to act as a one sided Death Pits of Rath for your opponents.
Wall of Frost-Not exactly Wall of Tears but with a bigger butt.
Safe Passage-This card is excellent. It completely hoses an all out strike against you. It protects mass creature destruction by spell burn. This card almost completely replaceds Embolden as one of the best common protection spells.
Master of the Wild Hunt-Green usually has a problem dealing with creatures, I can see this combined with Seedborn Muse and Rens Pack Master
Clone-Paying only 4 CMC for a fattie is always nice. Someone is usually playing something worth copying.
Sanguine Bond-Usually it is benifical to gain life in MP, because this prevents you from losing the game. Now, a card comes along that makes each point of life that you get further away from leaving the game someone else is one step closer. You will see this on MP tables.
Haunting Echoes-(reprint)Usually requires support like Mesmeric Orb to be extremely effective, but good none the less. Completely hoses decks that abuse card synergy, but don't use cards that are good on their own.
Acidic Slime-Utility is always good in MP decks. Utility with a body attached is even better {until someone in your group starts using Humility regularly}.
Magma Phoenix-Interesting twist on the Shard Phoenix archetype. The inablity to sacrifice this card on demand does have somewhat of a drawback, but your ability to instantly return it from your grave might prevent some anti-graveyard shenanigans.
Baneslayer Angel-If only she had haste. Good, but best MP card...no.
Xathrid Demon-A better Lord of the Pit.
Lurking Predators-Free creatures are good, but how long will this last before your opponents figure out they need to deal with it?
Hive Mind-This card is most likely the most fun MP card in the set.
Platinum Angel-(reprint) Yes it's good.
Darksteel Colossus-(reprint) Also good.

So what gets my vote for best MP card. Sangrine Bond is probably the most powerful of the new cards, and Hive Mind is the most fun. Noteable new commons worth getting are Burning Inquiry.
Having played with Elvish Archdruid in my MP-elf deck I really like it.
Having played with Baneslayer Angel in my MP-Angel deck I really love it.

But neither get my vote for the best MP card because they aren't "extra good" in multiplayer, they are better in single player.

My vote goes out to Magma Phoenix because that has almost everything I love. It is a flying critter that does something extra when it dies AND it has its own recursion (which can be played anytime, not just during your upkeep).



MP games are generally won on card advantage and the phoenix provides it and provides it good.


Side note on Sanguine Bond: it does nothing on its own. When in topdeck mode (which happens in multiplayer) you do NOT want to see it. Which makes it a bad card in my opinion.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Acidic Slime gets my vote. It's like Indrik Stomphowler reincarnated as an Ooze Assassin. It takes care of a pesky problem card when it enters the battlefield and can then do some work as a rattlesnake to ward off attackers. At the very least, you get a 2 for 1. Great utility.

I think that Lurking Predators also deserves mention, but I can only vote for one, so Acidic Slime it is.

My thoughts exactly. I also vote for Acidic Slime. Like the Indrik, it can go in practically any green deck and still be good.
Side note on Sanguine Bond: it does nothing on its own. When in topdeck mode (which happens in multiplayer) you do NOT want to see it. Which makes it a bad card in my opinion.

There's a lot more to it then that. It's one of those cards that usually requires the deck to be built around it, and usually can't win without it. Think of Megrim. It sucks because as much as you want to play discard early, if Megrim is your win-con you almost have to hold out until it's on the battlefield. Same thing here, you get punished for using your life gain before it hits the table. I HATE those kinds of cards in multiplayer. They will never take you far because of how limited they force your deck to be. Really, the only time this kind of card will pay off is if you're way behind and your opponents have tons of creatures and you're on the ropes, then you Congregate or whatever to kill someone and take a huge life lead until you can draw into your next Congregate or whatnot. Either way, the card just feels like a bad Test of Endurance. It does NOT punish you for playing it after you play life gain, is a good topdeck, and kills all opponents at the same time. I don't like Sanguine Bond as a MP card, and never plan to try and abuse it seriously.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Side note on Sanguine Bond: it does nothing on its own. When in topdeck mode (which happens in multiplayer) you do NOT want to see it. Which makes it a bad card in my opinion.

It's unfortunate that black doesn't have anyway to draw cards by paying life to avoid topdeck mode? {Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Barginp,Phyrexian Arena,Phyrexian Etchings,Seizan, Perverter of Truth,Dark Confidant,Greed}

I also really hate it when I have draw that 2nd Polluted Bonds when I already have one on the board and Storm Cauldron.
It's unfortunate that black doesn't have anyway to draw cards by paying life to avoid topdeck mode? {Necropotence, Yawgmoth's Barginp,Phyrexian Arena,Phyrexian Etchings,Seizan, Perverter of Truth,Dark Confidant,Greed}

I also really hate it when I have draw that 2nd Polluted Bonds when I already have one on the board and Storm Cauldron.

I think you're missing the point. Sure, if you always look at the best case scenario, pretty much any deck looks fantastic. Now play a game when you play Polluted Bonds and someone goes "OH **** NO!" and Disenchants it. Next turn you topdeck Storm Cauldron. What does it do? Sure, it screws around with lands a bit, but you're not winning off of that. The deck falls apart as soon as one of the combo pieces goes missing, and since you're playing black I'm assuming you have no real way to protect them. No one is saying that Sanguine Bond is bad if everything goes your way. As with any other combo, if people just sit back and let it work then it will work. The cards we prefer are cards that don't require a perfect setup to be good. Back to my Megrim example, I use Wheel of Torture instead. This way I can wreck everyone early on with Smallpox, Pox and Delirium Skeins and totally thwart any plans, then when I topdeck into Wheel of Torture (or play it via Howltooth Hollow) it takes advantage of the damage already done. I know everyone will have no cards in hand because I'll have 12+ cards in the deck devoted to mass/constant discard. There's no setup needed, every card I'll have played up until that point will have forced discard so I don't need to wait or get lucky. I'll have slowed the game so much that when I do eventually pick up a Wheel of Torture, it should be enough to win.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
I have to second Tich here. I totally agree with his statements.

Furthermore, there are a lot of card drawing cards in any colour and in artifacts too. But a deck with only card draw can't win. Most black playing decks in my playgroup play 4 Phyrexian Arena. When I get the chance I destroy it because otherwise they have so much more resources that it becomes that much harder to win against them. Most other players in my playgroup do the same and that is why even the black player reaches topdeck mode in the long run.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Xathrid Demon IMO. It's a massive, evasive beater with a low cost who has a great, repeatable MP effect. It's the kind of card you can build an entire deck around, or just toss in an existing one. It also has great synergy with other cards in the set, such as Howling Banshee, which is always a bonus in my book. I like cards that can win the game multiple ways, and aren't reliant on everything going right Really? Xathrid Demon is reliant on you having at least one other creature in play. This other creature better have some form of protection or something in your hand to back it up because it is in the best interest of all of your opponents to get rid of all your other creatures besides Xathrid Demon. So how many other creatures on the board would make you comfortable, 2,3,...? to be good. As long as you have a few creatures this guy is a house, and that's good enough for me.

I think you're missing the point. Sure, if you always look at the best case scenario, pretty much any deck looks fantastic. Now play a game when you play Polluted Bonds and someone goes "OH **** NO!" and Disenchants it. Next turn you topdeck Storm Cauldron. What does it do? Sure, it screws around with lands a bit, but you're not winning off of that. The deck falls apart as soon as one of the combo pieces goes missing, and since you're playing black I'm assuming you have no real way to protect them. No one is saying that Sanguine Bond is bad if everything goes your way. As with any other combo, if people just sit back and let it work then it will work. The cards we prefer are cards that don't require a perfect setup to be good. Back to my Megrim example, I use Wheel of Torture instead {I would just say that Megrim requires different cards, Lore Broker, Anvil of Bogardan, Burning Inquiry, Memory Jar, Urza's Guilt, etc.}. This way I can wreck everyone early on with Smallpox, Pox and Delirium Skeins {Now this becomes your dead draw in the late games that doesn't do anything} and totally thwart any plans, then when I topdeck into Wheel of Torture (or play it via Howltooth Hollow) it takes advantage of the damage already done. I know everyone will have no cards in hand because I'll have 12+ cards in the deck devoted to mass/constant discard. There's no setup needed, every card I'll have played up until that point will have forced discard so I don't need to wait or get lucky. I'll have slowed the game so much that when I do eventually pick up a Wheel of Torture, it should be enough to win.

I would say that each card needs a deck built around it. With Sangrine Bond, any life you gain before you cast it just will help you exchange that life for cards which will help you draw into it.
in your second red comment you mention cards that give draw/discard effects to your opponents. That is exactly not what you want in a megrim deck because they can switch the dead cards in hand for usefull cards (like disenchant for instance).

comment on your third red comment:
Pox and stuff aren't dead draws when you are in topdeck mode. You can play them and opponents will suffer the effects (they could well have an 8 mana bomb in hand but only 7 mana, they could well have a critter in play that is kicking your life total down). The chances of you topdecking one of those cards and getting NO EFFECT AT ALL from it are very slim.

They are definatly much smaller than the chances of you drawing Sanguine Bond and getting NO EFFECT AT ALL.

And that is the point. Megrim doesn't do anything unless opponents discard cards. Wheel of Torture can already do something even if nothing happens (since it makes your opponents keep cards in hand or take dmg).


(sidenote: drawing a swords to plowshares when in topdeck mode when no opponent has a creature technically doesn't do anything too but still that isn't a bad topdeck. Same difference.)
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Really? Xathrid Demon is reliant on you having at least one other creature in play. This other creature better have some form of protection or something in your hand to back it up because it is in the best interest of all of your opponents to get rid of all your other creatures besides Xathrid Demon. So how many other creatures on the board would make you comfortable, 2,3,...?

You know this logic can be applied to anything right? Every deck is designed to win. I know every now and then someone makes a "fun" deck that might be filled with cards that helps everyone else, but that is not the norm. If your counter to my deck is to have every opponent gang up on me, then my counter to your deck is to have every opponent gang up on you. Realistically, very few decks can win if you're everyone's target. The ones that can are the ones that win on turn 1-2 and are probably going to get banned from your playgroup. My point was that any deck with creatures can probably find a home for Xanthrid Demon. It brought a new level of creature aggressiveness in black, and I think that makes it special.

I would just say that Megrim requires different cards, Lore Broker, Anvil of Bogardan, Burning Inquiry, Memory Jar, Urza's Guilt, etc.

This is precisely my point. You have to not only play Megrim, everyone has to look at it and decide that it's not a "must answer" combo card and let you play all your discard spells uninterrupted. My point is that if they kill Megrim, your deck is boned, unless you plan to mill people to death. An aggro deck featuring Xanthrid Demon still has creatures and spells it can use to kill you. The deck doesn't die because one card is removed.

Now this becomes your dead draw in the late games that doesn't do anything

As previously stated, Pox and Smallpox are never going to be dead draws. I know you think Delirium Skeins will be, but remember how much land I'm destroying with my other spells. People WILL pick up cards they can't play. If I do have a Necrogen Mists in play, great. It means they're locked at 0 cards. I don't mind having dead draws if everyone is locked at 0 cards. You're always going to have dead draws, be it lands or spells. It may as well be a card that accomplishes a task at some point in the match. If not, then I have a way to force more discard.

I would say that each card needs a deck built around it. With Sangrine Bond, any life you gain before you cast it just will help you exchange that life for cards which will help you draw into it.

Really? Xathri... I mean Sanguine Bond is reliant on you having at least one other crea... errrr draw spell in play. This other draw spell better have some form of protection or something in your hand to back it up because it is in the best interest of all of your opponents to get rid of all your other draw spells besides Xathrid Dem... d'oh, Sanguine Bond. So how many other creaturDRAW SPELLS on the board would make you comfortable, 2,3,...?

The argument you used against my card is pretty much ubiquitous...
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Xathrid Demon
in your second red comment you mention cards that give draw/discard effects to your opponents. That is exactly not what you want in a megrim deck because they can switch the dead cards in hand for usefull cards (like disenchant for instance) Sure, it will give them more cards to draw only when they have cards already in hand, but you should be out drawing them with stuff like Geth's Grimoire. All of the listed cards can still make your opponents discard when they have no cards in hand, and the only card that would allow them to keep one of the cards is Anvil of Bogardan, all the other cards you must first complete all actions on the spells effect before anyone receives priority to play instants. I was just trying to point out that Megrim can be useful, you just have to build a deck that doesn't rely on your opponents having cards in hand. Megrim isn't bad when you also consider that it makes the choice to cycle difficult for your opponents..

Pox and stuff aren't dead draws when you are in topdeck mode {clearly you didn't see that I said ~this~ card is now your dead draw and not ~these~ cards are now dead draws. On second thought, I have reconsidered, Delirium Skeins really isn't a dead draw because of Pox/Smallpox limiting lands. But, then you could also argue that Storm Cauldron isn't a dead draw because it limits your opponents mana to 2 mana per turn, when my deck will likely be running depletion lands that tap for , , etc. I will have at least 4 mana a turn.}. You can play them and opponents will suffer the effects (they could well have an 8 mana bomb in hand but only 7 mana, they could well have a critter in play that is kicking your life total down). The chances of you topdecking one of those cards and getting NO EFFECT AT ALL from it are very slim.

They are definatly much smaller than the chances of you drawing Sanguine Bond and getting NO EFFECT AT ALL. Probably true of a properly built pox/discard deck, but I am not so sure about Xathrid Demon. I think many times the Demon will be a dead draw that you don't get anything out of. Many times the board is cleared of creatures and you will draw the Demon and be unable to cast it. In a properly build deck you can minimize this likelyhood {I imagine Flash creatures Simian Grunts, or upkeep resurrection cards Debtors' Knell/Reya Dawnbringer, or some kind of reanimation strategy hopefully with some instant speed Necromancy}. The problem I see with the Demon is that it is too easy to turn his great MP ability against him. With 4 other opponents and the Demon and another creature, what is the likelyhood that none of those opponents has at least a single card of targeted removal?

And that is the point. Megrim doesn't do anything unless opponents discard cards. Wheel of Torture can already do something even if nothing happens Unless you drew WoT early and everyone has a full hand, or someone is playing a Howling Mine deck, or the blue mage is packing Rhystic Study and laughing at the fact that your making him discard 3 cards but he is drawing 4 from his opponents not paying the extra since they have no mana from pox. But, you are correct I would rather draw WoT in topdeck mode than Megrim, but I would rather have Megrim in my opening hand with Dark Ritual than WoT+Dark Ritual. (since it makes your opponents keep cards in hand or take dmg).

If your counter to my deck is to have every opponent gang up on me, then my counter to your deck is to have every opponent gang up on you. That wasn't my meaning at all, XD will be turned against you because it only requires a small investment for your opponents to turn something that was bad for them into something positive for them. This is the same reason that stuff like Urborg Syphon-Mage doesn't last to your next untap step. He is fragile, and it is in everyones interest to waste a card to prevent 2 life loss and a huge positive swing in life for its controller. My point was that any deck with creatures can probably find a home for Xanthrid Demon. It brought a new level of creature aggressiveness in black, and I think that makes it special. Only time will tell. I personally believe that it is too easy to deal with XD, so the slot could be better filled with any number of aggressive beaters Avatar of Woe, Reiver Demon, Stronghold Overseer, the evil Kokusho, the Evening Star {of course who can really deal with Kokusho}

This is precisely my point. You have to not only play Megrim, everyone has to look at it and decide that it's not a "must answer" combo card and let you play all your discard spells uninterrupted. My point is that if they kill Megrim, your deck is boned, unless you plan to mill people to death {Well actually, in the Megrim deck I have played before milling was a weaker secondary win condition}. An aggro deck featuring Xanthrid Demon still has creatures and spells it can use to kill you. The deck doesn't die because one card is removed.

As previously stated, Pox and Smallpox are never going to be dead draws. I know you think Delirium Skeins will be, but remember how much land I'm destroying with my other spells. People WILL pick up cards they can't play {I hadn't thought about it that way, but now I see your point.}. If I do have a Necrogen Mists {Surely you meant Bottomless Pit} in play, great. It means they're locked at 0 cards. I don't mind having dead draws if everyone is locked at 0 cards. You're always going to have dead draws, be it lands or spells. It may as well be a card that accomplishes a task at some point in the match. If not, then I have a way to force more discard.

Really? Xathri... I mean Sanguine Bond is reliant on you having at least one other crea... errrr draw spell in play. This other draw spell better have some form of protection or something in your hand to back it up because it is in the best interest of all of your opponents to get rid of all your other draw spells besides Xathrid Dem... d'oh, Sanguine Bond. So how many other creaturDRAW SPELLS on the board would make you comfortable, 2,3,...?

The argument you used against my card is pretty much ubiquitous...

I just think that the Demon is going to draw aggro on your other weaker creatures and result in you taking 7 a turn, knocking you out in ~3 turns. The Bond is better if you cast lifegaining spells when it is out, but even if you haven't got it yet, casting lifegaining cards is never a bad move in MP {unless someone is play a Pox deck }, because it puts you further out of reach from the aggro players. I imagine a Bond deck could be built BW, BG, or mono black. I will have to come up with some deck lists...
Lurking Predators
My initial reaction to a Xanthid will be a Jayla or Pyroclasm.
I would argue for Sleep being one of the best multiplayer cards for a few reasons. One are the cards affects, like an earlier poster suggested, creature lockdown for two turns can be a death sentence. But also it can be a potential life saver and giving you two turns to avoid a potential alpha strike from that attacker. Like with some of the other cards people have suggested, it does not require (but certainly can be complimented with) other cards in order to perform its various functions or uses. It is hardly ever a dead draw, as you can use it to save your life, or a potential partner/ally's life as well.

As for Xanthrid Demon, yes he does not require much support in order to maximize his potential, but he does at least require creatures, and a constant supply of them. I'd argue Planar Cleansing as a better multiplayer card than the demon or Sleep. But Sleep provides a more unique affect than Planar Cleansing, which is really just Akroma's Vengeance that can also kill Planeswalkers, boring, but cannot be denied.
As for Xanthrid Demon, yes he does not require much support in order to maximize his potential, but he does at least require creatures, and a constant supply of them. I'd argue Planar Cleansing as a better multiplayer card than the demon or Sleep. But Sleep provides a more unique affect than Planar Cleansing, which is really just Akroma's Vengeance that can also kill Planeswalkers, boring, but cannot be denied.

Planar Cleansing is a terrible card. I'd argue that it's one of the worst. White, in general, relies on its enchantments and artifacts to create favorable situations. This card is a "**** it, I give up, let luck decide the match from here" because you destroy EVERYTHING and take the game to a top deck mode almost. White could be using Wrath of God to protect its enchantments while killing creatures, for less mana. There isn't a single white deck that will really want to play this card to win. I just don't see how a "I give up" card could be the best. It means your deck wasn't built to be competitive IMO.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Planar Cleansing is a terrible card. I'd argue that it's one of the worst. White, in general, relies on its enchantments and artifacts to create favorable situations. This card is a "**** it, I give up, let luck decide the match from here" because you destroy EVERYTHING and take the game to a top deck mode almost.

At least you can hold back and stock your hand with things still.
That's something Apocalypse won't let you do - the ultimate throw-my-hands-in-the-air-and-admit-failure reset card.
~ Guides I Have Been Silly Enough To Write ~
Budget Duals and Fetches in Multiplayer
CadaverousBl00m's Guide To Multiplayer Artifice
Multiplayer Tribal Format

~ Latest Multiplayer Ramblings: Appearing on my blog when I feel like it ~
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Rise of the Eldrazi Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Worldwake Post-Rotation
Kitchen Table Pricewatch: Zendikar Post-Rotation
Previous Multiplayer Concoctions
Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
Watch The Little Birdies! (Bird Tribal with Proliferate)
Kavu Kavu Kavu Banana (Kavu Predator aggro)
Faerie Bleeder (The "Death By A Thousand Cuts" Faerie deck)
Braaiiins! (Mono-black Zombie control)
Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
Planar Cleansing is a terrible card. I'd argue that it's one of the worst. White, in general, relies on its enchantments and artifacts to create favorable situations. This card is a "**** it, I give up, let luck decide the match from here" because you destroy EVERYTHING and take the game to a top deck mode almost. White could be using Wrath of God to protect its enchantments while killing creatures, for less mana. There isn't a single white deck that will really want to play this card to win. I just don't see how a "I give up" card could be the best. It means your deck wasn't built to be competitive IMO.

I respect your opinion, but I think you are dead wrong. A reset button of -any- kind is not a terrible card, especially ones that can destroy everything except regenerators and indestructibles. If you're a -bad- control player, laying down permanents just to destroy them with Planar Cleansing is of course stupid, but any control player who has played more than 2 games of magic hopefully would have figured that part out. Planar Cleansing is good in the same way other board sweepers are good, though I would argue Akroma's Vengeance is better because of the 1 less colored mana it requires. It punishes heavily the people who over commit, if you are playing Planar Cleansing, you should not be overcommitting.

And just a side note, going into Top Deck mode is a hell of alot better than dying on your opponent(s) next turn, assuming you didnt have any other threats in your hand to play or bring about.

Also "White, in general, relies on its enchantments and artifacts to create favorable situations.". You could argue white, in general, also uses small creatures (sometimes with evasion) to swarm the opponents, and therefore in that circumstance Wrath of God would be terrible to play, does that therefore mean Wrath of God is a terrible card because in a certain context it's detrimental to your game plan? No, not at all. I wouldn't play it in a White Weenie deck, but doesn't mean the card is bad, let alone the -worst-.
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