Help With Confusion in the Ranks Deck

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Go to Post #14 for updated deck list and discussion. Beware as I went a little overboard and replied to many people.

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(Link to Post #14 Here)

So far this is as much of the deck I have created and it runs both great and horrible depending on what I draw.

Creatures
4 x Glitterfang - 1/1 haste for early dmg & to repeatedly steal creatures later
3 x Norin The Wary - a beast with genesis & confusion
4 x Soul Warden / Auriok Champion - life gain

Instant / Sorcery
4 x Seething Song - accelerate towards confusion and Mycosynth
4 x Shattering Spree - amazing with Mycosynth & normal artifact destruction
4 x Enlightened Tutor – searching for pieces
3 x Starstorm - when my plans backfire and get rushed by token army


Artifact / Enchantments
3 x Confusion in the Ranks - main staple card
3 x Genesis Chamber - tokens to block & steal creatures
3 x Mycosynth Lattice - steal anything I want (might go to 2)
3 x Damping Matrix - protects Norin, breaks combos, and no drawbacks

Lands
10xMountain - produce R
4 x Great Furnace - produce R & steal
2 x Plains - produce W
4 x Ancient Den - produce W & steal
2 x High Market - life gain and sack unwanted creatures

60 cards total
Current flaws with the deck...
- lots of the cards turn into dead draws once one of them is already on the board *discussed on Post #14*.
- Confusion in the Ranks & Mycosynth Lattice are fairly hard to play and do not come with any protection.
- Enchantments are a real pain to deal with but I guess that is what a sideboard is for.

My win conditions include a wide variety depending on what permanents I get to stick on the board. The primary one this deck is focused on achieving is stealing all my opponent's permanents with Confusion in the Ranks combined with Norin the Wary, Glitterfang, Genesis Chamber, and possibly Mycosynth Lattice. The other two possible wins occur without Confusion in the Ranks being on the board. Norin's interaction with Genesis Chamber can build up a rather scary token army during the first couple of turns and by itself can end up killing people. Mycosynth Lattice and Shattering Spree make up the other.

- One of the win conditions I was interested in pursuing included abusing Bronze Bombshell and splashing black for Endless Whispers. Zammm pointed out that the trick didn't work and regardless the BB cost was hard to fulfill for only one card. Without Whispers, Bronze Bombshell is either a 4/1 for 4 that gets chump blocked by a token or a one time 7 dmg to a single player.

As of right now I am looking to make the deck better by strengthening against some its flaws and trying different combinations out. So far here are the cards I have searched through in making my deck and if one seems worthy point it out to me. Other card suggestions are well appreciated and sort of what I am looking for. Also if someone is playing a R/U version I would be interested to see what cards you use.

Playable card for Confusion in the Ranks deck includes...

Red / White Version



[sblock=Creatures]
Auriok Champion
Avalanche Riders
Boros Guildmage
Darien, King of Kjeldor
Dust Elemental
Fountain Watch
Glitterfang
Glory
Greater Gargadon
Grinning Ignus
Lost Auramancers
Myr Servitor
Norin The Wary
Saltskitter
Soul Warden
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Stormfront Riders
Viashino Cutthroat
Viashino Sandscout
Viashino Sandstalker
Wall of Junk[/sblock]

[sblock=Sorcery / Instant Spells]
Brand
Enlightened Tutor
Lightning Bolt
Lightning Helix
Magma Jet
Radiate
Seething Song
Shock
Shrapnel Blast
Starstorm
Browbeat
Fiery Gambit
Firecat Blitz
Idyllic Tutor
Insurrection
Rite of Flame
Rupture
Shattering Spree[/sblock]

[sblock=Artifact / Enchantments]
Blasting Station
Boros Signet
Bronze Bombshell
Chromatic Sphere
Chromatic Star
Chrome Mox
Claws of Gix
Coalition Relic
Damping Matrix
Gate to the Aether
Genesis Chamber
Howling Mine
Mind Stone
Mycosynth Lattice
Nuisance Engine
Pyrite Spellbomb
Ronin Warclub
Tel-Jilad Stylus
Confusion in the Ranks
Endless Whispers
Mark of Fury
Pandemonium
Price of Glory
Seal of Fire
Wild Research[/sblock]

[sblock=Lands]
Ancient Den
Great Furnace
Kher Keep
Miren, the Moaning Well
Fungal Reaches
High Market
Molten Slagheap
Rugged Prairie[/sblock]

Red / Blue Variant



[color=indigo][sblock=Creatures][/color]
Dracoplasm
Hunted Phantasm
Imaginary Pet
Mulldrifter
Slithermuse
Gilded Drake
Shrieking Drake
Timid Drake[/sblock]

[sblock=Instant / Sorcery]
Arcane Denial
Counterspell
Misdirection
Tinker
Swerve
Boomerang
Blatant Thievery
Reins of Power
Read the Runes[/sblock]

[sblock=Artifact / Enchantments]
Diplomatic Immunity
Rhystic Study
Quicksilver Dagger
Illusions of Grandeur
Equilibrium[/sblock]

[sblock=Lands]
Cascade Bluffs
Seat of the Synod[/sblock]
Well, one of the first things I can see is Norin the Wary isn't going to work. Confusion in the Ranks triggers only if both targets are in play when the ability resolves, and Norin will be long gone before the trigger resolves.

And all your Norins will be in play at the end of the turn, then before you can do anything they all die due to state based effects.

For your deck I'd suggest either a bunch of stupid creatures you wouldn't mind losing, or perhaps something like Grip of Chaos to make the game super crazy. Another fun option might be Brand, so you can get back all your stuff.

Only Mark of Fury would work for taking control of enchantments. Remember, it's just looking at the card type, not the specific card (i.e. Aura). In the same way that artifact creatures can steal artifacts or creatures, enchantments don't care if it's a world enchantment, aura, or legendary enchantment. They're still enchantments, so control of the card can be exchanged.
Thanks for the information regarding Norin exploding into ashes with multiples out but as for the interaction Confusion in the Ranks he should work. When he comes into play confusion's ability lets me swap him with whichever creature I like. Then when someone else plays a creature trying to steal him he cannot be the target as he gets removed from game and end of turn comes into play under my control repeating the cycle.

As for the stealing enchantments I am glad to see that it works on grabbing any type. The only thing left that confuses me on the matter concerns where exactly Mark of Fury ends up.
Thanks for the information regarding Norin exploding into ashes with multiples out but as for the interaction Confusion in the Ranks he should work. When he comes into play confusion's ability lets me swap him with whichever creature I like. Then when someone else plays a creature trying to steal him he cannot be the target as he gets removed from game and end of turn comes into play under my control repeating the cycle.

As for the stealing enchantments I am glad to see that it works on grabbing any type. The only thing left that confuses me on the matter concerns where exactly Mark of Fury ends up.

you would play the mark of fury on whichever creature you want, then if you exchange it for another enchantment, it remains on the creature, but it is controlled by someone else (pretty much useless to them). At least thats what I'm pretty sure will happen
you would play the mark of fury on whichever creature you want, then if you exchange it for another enchantment, it remains on the creature, but it is controlled by someone else (pretty much useless to them). At least thats what I'm pretty sure will happen

That is correct. I thought about creating my own Confusion deck for R/U. I would use Diplomatic Immunity but I do like the idea of Fury for repeated theft.

Getting to the point, my plan was to :
you would play the mark of fury on whichever creature you want, then if you exchange it for another enchantment, it remains on the creature, but it is controlled by someone else (pretty much useless to them). At least thats what I'm pretty sure will happen

Correct.

The ownership matters for things like using activated abilities on the enchantment (Freed From the Real or who the owner is (like ghostly prison, spirit link). But it won't change what an aura is enchanting, nor does it stop whatever an aura enchants from gaining benefits from the enchantment. Things with wording like "Enchanted card has blah". For example, if you Mark of Fury a creature, that creature has haste, regardless if the owner of it and the mark differ.
Hmm, was really happy to hear that until I realized I could not use it on other player's creatures (as a bartering tool) for the early game. Now I am simply overjoyed and it will still probably end up in the deck unless something better comes up.

Thanks for the input on the enchantment confusion and as of now I am trying to find other cards to put in. If anyone has suggestions I'll be glad to read them.
After playing around with the deck I have found that Gates to the Aether usually works against me and gets me killed. Usually Confusion in the Ranks gets knocked and things creatures from Aether are directed at me for a quick kill. Unfortunately taking that out means I have even less cards.

As for the nonbasic lands I might end up switching out High Market for one of the others. I do like the fact that it doesn't come into play tapped as well as no mana cost but the life gain isn't much. Miren, the Moaning Well and Phyrexian Tower look pretty nice as far as life and accel go but not sure if the price is too high.

Still looking for more card suggestions to fill in the missing pieces and possible tips for running the deck.
Well, the main thing I can see is the vulnerability of the deck without confusion. Most of your guys have 2 or less power, so a single naturalize will severly hinder your chances of winning in a multi game, where you are up against many people or people with high life totals. The low powered critters also rules out pandemonium as a viable option (your glitterfangs do 1 dmg and norin does 2) because even someone playing mono green will destroy the board long before you with his fatties. I would suggest looking for some creatures that have higher power and of themselves can be used as a win condistion. Especially packing seething song, any creature with a 5 mana cc fits this curve nicely.

One other thought, I think that lattice may be too much of a "all other players kill me now" card, especially if you have played this deck with folks and they know how good that card is with confusion (once again, assuming confusion doesn't get destroyed and you have a 6 mana artifact in your hand or on your board that does nothing).

A couple chrome moxes would be cool in this deck with confusion (not 4 moxes, maybe 2 or 3). They help with acceleration and can be played without attaching anything to them to steal an artifact with confusion.

Not sure if any of this helps in the least, but a couple random ideas
Summoner's Egg and Phage the Untouchable makes for a nice little laugh. Wait until your opponent has the egg, then shatter it.
I splash white in my Confusion deck for Enlightened Tutor, and Soul Warden might be a nice addition with all the tokens being generated by the Chambers. Saltskitter also tends to come into and leave play a lot, especially when Norin or a Chamber is around.

I also use Myr Servitor for extra stealing goodness and they-never-really-die-ness. Something like Claw of Gix could help as well to get rid of any permanent you just plain don't want around. Kher Keep is a very nice way of repeatedly generating tokens.

Molten Slagheap or Fungal Reaches could help with the mana production, as could Coalition Relic. If you want a one-shot burn spell, Magma Jet is a very good choice; its scry effect is much appreciated in a mostly red deck without much manipulation.


I'd remove the Mark of Furies if you're going to keep the Lattice; they're just too narrow to really be worth the slot, and if you get a Lattice out you can steal enchantments anyway. On the other hand, you might want to put in a few appropriate artifact lands; they'll let you steal lands from your opponents even without a Lattice, while still being perfectly useful without them. Bouncelands like Rakdos Carnarium or Boros Garrison might be a bit risky if you drop the Lattice, but you plan on being able to steal enough to get them back, right?

The Endless Whispers/Bronze Bombshell kill is just too unreliable and fragile to depend on; not to mention that when it actually kills a person the Bombshell (and possibly the Whispers too) is lost and needs to be re-found before you can continue. (I suspect that a goodly number of your wins with that combo were based on a misunderstanding of how the combo works in multiplayer.) I'd stick with the plan of "steal every relevant permanent in play." That's a win condition in and of itself--you don't need to get fancy.


For defense, I'd include a few board-sweepers like Starstorm--one of your biggest problems is going to be someone who can generate tons of tokens and just overwhelm you, and your own Chambers don't help matters. Your own creatures are pretty much immune to such things--well, except the Bombshell, but I suggested getting rid of it anyway.


Fiery Gambit just isn't worth the risk, and Brand shouldn't be all that useful if you're doing your job properly--the idea is to have permanents you either don't need back or that come back to you on their own. Grip of Chaos is good for a laugh once or twice, but it's pretty much useless if you want to actually win the game.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Steel Golem and Grid Monitor... good stuff to trade away.
Here's the Extended version I made:

21 LANDS:
8x Mountain
4x Great Furnace
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Steam Vents

26 CREATURES:
4x Glitterfang
2x Norin the Wary
4x Inner-flame Acolyte
4x Viashino Sandscout
4x Viashino Sandstalker
4x Mulldrifter
4x Bronze Bombshell

13 SPELLS:
1 Mycosynth Lattice
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Confusion in the Ranks

15 SIDEBOARD:
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Grounds
1x Blood Crypt
4x Greater Gargadon
4x Tarmagoyf
4x Shriekmaw

The strategy here is pretty simple: the first couple turns, aggro with Glitterfang/Viashino Sandscout while thinning your deck out with fetch lands. Hopefully by Turn 3 you can Seething Song into Confusion; if not, evoke a couple Mulldrifters and play Inner-Flame Acolyte (or Bronze Bombshells if you're desperate) as blockers.

Once Confusion is out, you should be able to take control pretty quickly. Norin will net you a creature a turn, while you can usually play 2-3 returners on every turn for the rest of the game. Great Furnace is a free way to neutralize artifacts, and Bronze Bombshell can snag an artifact or creature. For enchantments you'll have to rely on Confusion itself. Use the returners and evokes to snag enemy creatures, and hard cast the evokes once there's no legal trading targets. At this point, winning should be a snap.

I know, the Mycosynth seems like it wants to be 4x, but in playtesting it was just too slow. I think you'll find that for the majority of Casual decks, creature control is enough. That being said, Mycosynth can be a life-saver if you draw it late in the game. Maybe it could go up to 2x in another build.

Up against a deck that hoses Confusion? Swap out 4 Bronze Bombshells, 2 Great Furnace, 1 Mycosynth Lattice, 2 Norin, 4 Confusion in the Ranks, and 1 Seething Song for everything but the Steam Vents. Voila! You're now aggro!

Its weaknesses should be obvious, but hey, Confusion isn't exactly a Tier 1 card.
Through taking different pieces of advice as well as my own testing experience this is the deck I have created. As of right now I need some advice on how to get rid of or at least limit the dead draws this deck is filled with. Any additional advice is always welcome as well.

Creatures
4 x Glitterfang - 1/1 haste for early dmg & to repeatedly steal creatures later
3 x Norin The Wary - a beast with genesis & confusion
4 x Soul Warden / Auriok Champion - life gain

Instant / Sorcery
4 x Seething Song - accelerate towards confusion and Mycosynth
4 x Shattering Spree - amazing with Mycosynth & normal artifact destruction
4 x Enlightened Tutor – searching for pieces
3 x Starstorm - when my plans backfire and get rushed by token army


Artifact / Enchantments
3 x Confusion in the Ranks - main staple card
3 x Genesis Chamber - tokens to block & steal creatures
3 x Mycosynth Lattice - steal anything I want (might go to 2)
3 x Damping Matrix - protects Norin, breaks combos, and no drawbacks

Lands
10xMountain - produce R
4 x Great Furnace - produce R & steal
2 x Plains - produce W
4 x Ancient Den - produce W & steal
2 x High Market - life gain and sack unwanted creatures

60 cards total

It may be apparent but just in case my usual dead cards include...
- Seething Song - only really affects turns 3, 4, and 5 and afterwards only helps with Shattering Spree
- My enchantments, artifacts (excluding genesis chamber), and Norin become dead cards once one of them is on them board. They merely become my hand and act as replacements (also doesn't solve the reason for why they are replacing).

Maybe I'm just too greedy or perhaps picky as after typing that out it doesn't seem too bad. It does feel like a lot though while I hold those cards in hand and just wish they could have been something worth playing at the moment.

- - - - - - - - - -

Response to clockneck
Well, the main thing I can see is the vulnerability of the deck without confusion. Most of your guys have 2 or less power, so a single naturalize will severely hinder your chances of winning in a multi game, where you are up against many people or people with high life totals. The low powered critters also rules out pandemonium as a viable option (your glitterfangs do 1 dmg and norin does 2) because even someone playing mono green will destroy the board long before you with his fatties. I would suggest looking for some creatures that have higher power and of themselves can be used as a win condition. Especially packing seething song, any creature with a 5 mana cc fits this curve nicely.

Amazingly this deck can hold its ground pretty well despite losing confusion. I do admit though enchantments like Night of Souls' Betrayal and Pernicious Deed scare the hell out of me. Pandemonium isn’t really my cup of tea as the card always ends up destroying me and playing it with support takes a lot investment. As for your suggestion on big creatures that cost 5 cc it seems like a nice way to use dead seething songs. I really don’t know of any that would help this deck while having some sort of protection from being traded.

One other thought, I think that lattice may be too much of a "all other players kill me now" card, especially if you have played this deck with folks and they know how good that card is with confusion (once again, assuming confusion doesn't get destroyed and you have a 6 mana artifact in your hand or on your board that does nothing).

I’m split on whether to keep Mycosynth because it adds more things to trade, helps me deal with enchantments and lands (Glacial Chasm), and does this all while making itself appear as a really big threat. The other weakness it has is a simple naturalize or disenchant which are starting to be run at my table.

A couple chrome moxes would be cool in this deck with confusion (not 4 moxes, maybe 2 or 3). They help with acceleration and can be played without attaching anything to them to steal an artifact with confusion.

Not sure if any of this helps in the least, but a couple random ideas

Chrome Mox would be amazing to help speed up my deck and I would definitely use it but the card itself is priced a little too high for my budget. The deck could then play Confusion on turn 4 and Mycosynth turn 5 if I keep it. More than likely if I do add an artifact for mana acceleration it would be Mind Stone since it is relatively cheap to play and can be sacrificed. In that case Seething Song would be removed for space.


Response to OWN
Summoner's Egg and Phage the Untouchable makes for a nice little laugh. Wait until your opponent has the egg, then shatter it.

I like the laugh and it probably would be fun once or twice but it is a lot of preparation to kill one player. Would have to remove some stuff to fit the eggs and Phage in, draw both together, put it into play with Confusion out, shatter it, and somehow survive as everyone else turns to me.


Response to zammm
I splash white in my Confusion deck for Enlightened Tutor, and Soul Warden might be a nice addition with all the tokens being generated by the Chambers. Saltskitter also tends to come into and leave play a lot, especially when Norin or a Chamber is around.

I really like this idea of adding white and have put it into part of my deck. The Enlightened Tutor is a little expensive for me (money wise) but if I can find it cheap somewhere it will definitely see some part of this deck. I don’t look for much but searching for a broken or needed part could really help. As for Soul Warden, I was leaning over to her more costly upgrade Auriok Champion. She has lots of nice benefits for multiplayer and this deck but unfortunately I don't think I can handle the double white cost.

I also use Myr Servitor for extra stealing goodness and they-never-really-die-ness. Something like Claws of Gix could help as well to get rid of any permanent you just plain don't want around. Kher Keep is a very nice way of repeatedly generating tokens.

Kher Keep and especially Myr Servitor seem worth testing but the Claws of Gix scares me. Assuming I took out Damping Matrix to use the ability the obvious benefits would be life gain and an easy and repeatable sac outlet. The disadvantage would be an opponent stealing the claw while I’m tapped out and using it to kill Norin. That may seem a little farfetched but when I play this deck people go through pretty desperate measures to kill him. Going back to the Myr Servitor I was wondering if you felt they were worth it enough for me to switch out another piece for them. They also fit in quite nicely with the matrix as their abilities aren’t activated but triggered.

Molten Slagheap or Fungal Reaches could help with the mana production, as could Coalition Relic. If you want a one-shot burn spell, Magma Jet is a very good choice; its scry effect is much appreciated in a mostly red deck without much manipulation.

I wouldn’t mind adding a few counter lands but I just wish there was one that worked for both red and white. Even though I may regret this I will probably overlook them for now as with the artifact lands, High Market, and possibly Kher Keep I have an abundance of non-basic lands. Coalition Relic is a possibility if I don’t use Chrome Mox/Mind Stone. In regards to Magma Jet I will more than likely be using Starstorm you suggested and will explain my reasons later.

I'd remove the Mark of Furies if you're going to keep the Lattice; they're just too narrow to really be worth the slot, and if you get a Lattice out you can steal enchantments anyway. On the other hand, you might want to put in a few appropriate artifact lands; they'll let you steal lands from your opponents even without a Lattice, while still being perfectly useful without them. Bouncelands like Rakdos Carnarium or Boros Garrison might be a bit risky if you drop the Lattice, but you plan on being able to steal enough to get them back, right?

Oddly enough through my testing Mark of Fury didn’t do enough for the deck that I took it out anyways. I did take your advice on trying the artifact lands and to my enjoyment they work extremely well. Oddly enough I just realized that I could steal Glacial Chasm with them and not need to use Mycosynth. The bounce lands don’t really seem right for my deck since some of my most important turns are the first three.

The Endless Whispers/Bronze Bombshell kill is just too unreliable and fragile to depend on; not to mention that when it actually kills a person the Bombshell (and possibly the Whispers too) is lost and needs to be re-found before you can continue. (I suspect that a goodly number of your wins with that combo were based on a misunderstanding of how the combo works in multiplayer.) I'd stick with the plan of "steal every relevant permanent in play." That's a win condition in and of itself--you don't need to get fancy.

Took note and looked this up in detail and after one testing game they were out of my deck. Endless Whispers was my only real reason to splash black and with the frustration it caused as well as a faulty 5 dmg trick it didn’t have much chance of surviving.

For defense, I'd include a few board-sweepers like Starstorm--one of your biggest problems is going to be someone who can generate tons of tokens and just overwhelm you, and your own Chambers don't help matters. Your own creatures are pretty much immune to such things--well, except the Bombshell, but I suggested getting rid of it anyway.

Starstorm seems like a blessing to me as I’ve just recently come to understand the pleasure of red universal creature burn. Norin cowers when it is played, Soul Warden will fry but don't mind (Auriok Champion would be protected if i had her), Glitterfang won’t be in play, and the tokens will burn just like they’re supposed to and I’ll get another one regardless. Instant speed also helps out as Mr. Saproling/Whatever tries to infinite out on his turn.

Fiery Gambit just isn't worth the risk, and Brand shouldn't be all that useful if you're doing your job properly--the idea is to have permanents you either don't need back or that come back to you on their own. Grip of Chaos is good for a laugh once or twice, but it's pretty much useless if you want to actually win the game.

I agree that Fiery Gambit and Brand aren’t needed and Grip of Chaos can roll over and die. There were enough people conceding when Endless Whispers joined the field that Grip of Chaos seems like helll.


Response to unbrokencircle
Steel Golem and Grid Monitor... good stuff to trade away.

Nice idea to screw one player over but I won’t be able to cast them normally with a use and I definitely don’t want the possibility of them returning through (Brooding Saurian).


Response to Mooby
[Hide]
The strategy here is pretty simple: the first couple turns, aggro with Glitterfang/Viashino Sandscout while thinning your deck out with fetch lands. Hopefully by Turn 3 you can Seething Song into Confusion; if not, evoke a couple Mulldrifters and play Inner-Flame Acolyte (or Bronze Bombshells if you're desperate) as blockers.

I like using Glitterfang and am considering either Viashino Sandscout or Myr Servitor for early damage and stealing. Viashino Sandstalker on the other hand puzzles me as I would enjoy beating for 4 but that only makes sense without Confusion in the Ranks. After the enchantment joins the game your paying 1RR to give your opponent a 4/2 blocker for one of their creatures.

I know, the Mycosynth seems like it wants to be 4x, but in playtesting it was just too slow. I think you'll find that for the majority of Casual decks, creature control is enough. That being said, Mycosynth can be a life-saver if you draw it late in the game. Maybe it could go up to 2x in another build.

Couldn’t agree more about running 4 Mycosynth Lattice as drawing two in the opening hand is brutal enough. From what I believe I think my deck can support 2 to 3 if I want to effectively use Shattering Spree.

Its weaknesses should be obvious, but hey, Confusion isn't exactly a Tier 1 card.



It may be too soon to say this but I’ve actually had some good luck eliminating its weaknesses and having it become a very powerful card. Regardless though the deck does have flaws that can be exploited so I’ll be attempting to create a sideboard allowing it more flexibility. Just need a little advice on some of the things that should be put in it.

- - - - - - - - - -

Damping Matrix
In case it wasn’t apparent, I just wanted to point out the good features of this card and why it is in the deck.
• Does not affect any of the permanents that I play as most have triggered and none have activated abilites.
• Most things that destroy Norin are creatures and artifacts that use activated abilities. Ex: Mogg Fanatic / Pyrite Spellbomb
• Helps protect my artifacts and enchantments against same kinds of threats. Ex: Nullmage Shepherd
• Decks that want to go infinite (which I hate) will usually run into a problem either with this or Confusion.
Other than those reasons it doesn’t have a point except for keeping possibly better cards from being in my deck. If there is something better that I could use in its place then I will gladly test it out.

If anyone has any advice on how I could better work this deck, possible cards that could be included, or anything else on the matter I would be glad to hear it. Sorry that I didn’t reply sooner but my old group made me shelf the deck as they couldn’t work around it.
Well, one of the first things I can see is Norin the Wary isn't going to work. Confusion in the Ranks triggers only if both targets are in play when the ability resolves, and Norin will be long gone before the trigger resolves.

And all your Norins will be in play at the end of the turn, then before you can do anything they all die due to state based effects.

I don't get the first part, I think you are mistaking something or I am missing your point. Norin only gets wary if a creature attacks or a spell is played. He is not affected by the CITR trigger (at least no more affected than any most other creatures). If you are thinking he triggers himself, that is not so as he triggers on a spell being played, and he is already in play by the time his ability would be active.

The second part is important, just play 1 Norin at a time. He is a workhorse in this deck and is well worth the 1 mana.

I use a r/u version and the biggest issue is that is that the deck is kinda useless when you don't have CITR on the board.

Norin sucks and blows by himself.
I don't get the first part, I think you are mistaking something or I am missing your point. Norin only gets wary if a creature attacks or a spell is played. He is not affected by the CITR trigger (at least no more affected than any most other creatures). If you are thinking he triggers himself, that is not so as he triggers on a spell being played, and he is already in play by the time his ability would be active.

Although this is an old comment I could probably say with little doubt that the poster didn't read ether Confusion in the Ranks or Norin the Wary.

I use a r/u version and the biggest issue is that is that the deck is kinda useless when you don't have CITR on the board.

Norin sucks and blows by himself.

After seeing two posters using a R/U deck, I decided to add in some possible cards that would work for that variant. If you could list your deck or point out some of your important players that you went to blue for it would really help me expand the list.

No one can argue that Norin is horrible without any support but in eyes the deck can do decent while waiting for Confusion in the Ranks. Through Genesis Chamber your creatures can easily build up an army of blockers/attackers. Red / Blue decks can include Dracoplasm to sac off myr tokens to create a big evasive flyer for the win (probably an overstatement).
A couple suggestions, if I may.

You mentioned Howling Mine as a possibiliy you might consider -- in this deck, I think that Anvil of Bogardan would be a better choice. It is extra draw for the same cost as Howling Mine, but it lets you keep a full hand. Meaning that all your "return to hand at end of turn" creatures don't have to be discarded/lost.

You also are running Seething Song for acceleration. Whenever possible, I tend to prefer permanent forms, as you get the benefits for more than one turn. To that end, I would suggest something along the lines of Mana Flare, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power or some combination of them.

Mana Flare would be another enchantment you could swap (since hey, you really don't care who controls it). With the Lens, run Snow-Covered Mountains instead of basic and make it fairly one-sided. The Gauntlet is more expensive, but it has the additional effect of pumping your creatures. (And is great if you're the only one playing a red deck.)

Just somethings to think about.
You asked why some of us went r/u, I think it was mainly for the counterspells to protect CITR once it hit play and to then keep my norin's/others from getting countered. That and some draw spells to get me to the CITR.

I originally figured on r/b, for transmute, but could not build a good enough deck.

Besides that, evoke mulldrifter, stack cip triggers of mully and CITR, give away mully.

imaginary pet He always follows you home, ain't that sweet?

delusions of mediocrity. Well, my dillusions of gandolf are in my donate deck, so...at least I can trade for some nicer enchantments after gaining 10 life.
After attempting to create the red/blue variant my eyes began to bleed and a sickening feeling has plagued my stomach. Everything seems to be thrown out of proportion and to my magic senses scream that this deck looks ugly and will never work. The overwhelming red presence that marked the deck is nearly consumed by blue with the double blue cost of some spells like counterspell and boomerang. I tried adding in illusions of grandeur as it seems pretty useful as a placebo 20 life without confusion but the cumulative 2 upkeep made that idea worthless. Rhystic study & read the runes were admirable in good card draw but didn't solve any of the other problems and as for the blue creatures I was unsure of how to fit them in without taking major things out. Overall I'm disappointed in myself as blue is my favorite color in magic and yet I failed so horribly into making a decent deck. So far here is what I tried to create and unfortunately the play testing has been drawing hands and trying to play through them naturally by myself.

Creatures
4 x Glitterfang
3 x Norin the Wary

Spells
4 x Arcane Denial
4 x Boomerang
4 x Counterspell
3 x Starstorm

Enchantments
3 x Confusion in the Ranks
3 x Diplomatic Immunity
3 x Illusions of Grandeur
3 x Rhystic Study

Artifacts
3 x Damping Matrix
3 x Genesis Chamber

Lands
4 x Great Furnace
2 x High Market
7 x Island
5 x Mountain
4 x Seat of the Synod

Total Cards = 62

The other main thing I have discovered about my blue/red confusion deck is just how heavily it relies on Confusion in the Ranks. It could be merely an illusion but it seemed like the red/white version had a lot more freedom in what it did. Advice on how to fix this POS is appreciated like always and I moved the possible card list up top so it now consists of everything found and suggested.
[sblock=Response to Mooby][Hide]

I like using Glitterfang and am considering either Viashino Sandscout or Myr Servitor for early damage and stealing. Viashino Sandstalker on the other hand puzzles me as I would enjoy beating for 4 but that only makes sense without Confusion in the Ranks. After the enchantment joins the game your paying 1RR to give your opponent a 4/2 blocker for one of their creatures.

He was originally there to end the game quickly if you can't get a Confusion into your hand. However, Inner-Flame Acolyte serves the same purpose much better here. I've since replaced Sandstalker with Briarhorn; it's one mana more but I desperately need early game blockers, and with flash he can be a 6/6 (having no creatures with a toughness over 2 is quite annoying sometimes.) I'm still testing the deck with him in it, so I'll let you know.


Couldn’t agree more about running 4 Mycosynth Lattice as drawing two in the opening hand is brutal enough. From what I believe I think my deck can support 2 to 3 if I want to effectively use Shattering Spree.

I've been using 2 Mycosynth for a while, and it seems like the right amount. I dropped to 3 Bronze Bombshell because they tend to slow down my hand a little.
I would cut down the Matrix and Lattice to two copies each; you have four Tutors, remember? The Confusion, on the other hand, I would bump up to four copies--it's too vital to the deck to risk not getting it.

I agree that Claws of Gix is risky, but you can easily play around it by always keeping mana open once the Confusion hits. If they try to switch for it, sacrifice it.

Miren, the Moaning Well might be considered as a replacement for High Market if you find yourself stealing big enough creatures to make the payment worthwhile. That or Animal Boneyard. (Which can steal an enchantment for you with the Confusion out with no loss, since it doesn't matter who controls it.)

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

My try, as I like doing my own tries.



3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul+Warden" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Soul+Warden">Soul Warden</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glitterfang" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Glitterfang">Glitterfang</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norin+the+Wary" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Norin+the+Wary">Norin the Wary</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Martyr+of+Ashes" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Martyr+of+Ashes">Martyr of Ashes</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scorched+Rusalka" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Scorched+Rusalka">Scorched Rusalka</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myr+Servitor" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Myr+Servitor">Myr Servitor</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saltskitter" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Saltskitter">Saltskitter</a>

4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Genesis+Chamber" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Genesis+Chamber">Genesis Chamber</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confusion+in+the+Ranks" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Confusion+in+the+Ranks">Confusion in the Ranks</a>

4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enlightened+Tutor" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Enlightened+Tutor">Enlightened Tutor</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Proclamation+of+Rebirth" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Proclamation+of+Rebirth">Proclamation of Rebirth</a>
2 x lands


Enlightened Tutor - Find chamber, confusion and servitor.
Soul Warden - Gives a lot of life with chamber and the confusion abuse creatures.
Glitterfang - To abuse chamber and confusion
Norin the Wary - Same as glitterfang, just a lot more useful.
Scorched Rusalka - Machine gun with servitor, and can sacrifice stolen stuff.
Myr Servitor - Useful with rusalka, and can keep on bringing stuff.
Scorched Rusalka - Can blow up the board for a bit when needed, and kan do it more than once with proclamation.
----------------
Genesis Chamber - Abuse with a lot of the creatures in the deck.
----------------
Proclamation of Rebirth - Can bring back Warden, Glitterfang, Norin, Rusalka, Servitor and Martyr.
----------------
Saltskitter - Abuse with chamber and confusion.
----------------
Confusion in the Ranks - Main card in the deck, but it can probably do with only chambers too.

(Whispers would not fit in a R/W variant :P)

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I was wondering if anyone has touched Norin and Confusion in the Ranks recently?  I remember this thread from a while back, and I don't remember much being put into instant theft, such as Enchantments with Flash or Instant Tokens.  

Anyone recently playing with Norin and the like get much use out of the instants?

Something like : 
Cho-Manno's Blessing - give your creature prot from Red (confusion) and then take your opp's enchant
Raise the Alarm - Steal a creature (or two) just before your go to eliminate summoning sickness!

Anyone playing this deck often have any new ideas?

--Edit--

Also, I know consideration is given to clearing the bored of weenies and tokens with the likes of Earthquake or Starstorm but what about love for Pyrohemia?  You can just let it sit out there and reuse it over and over.  
 
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