Discard Control

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It's a deck type that I'm sure I didn't create, but I discovered it over the years and have been mastering it for some time now. It is a relatively fast paced deck that is rather difficult to stop. Why is this? Because it attacks on 2 levels: Not only does it attempt to burn each player down (simultaneously) at a quick rate, but it also hinders every player's deck (simultaneously), reducing their chances of winning by extreme margins. As such, even if you can fight off 1 front of the attack, the other is likely going to cost you the match.

Also, I'm going to stress instantly that it's a versatile deck. By versatile, I mean your card choices are by no means set in stone. As I clearly stated on many occasions, I hate deck lists. As such, I'm always mixing mine up, and yet it still accomplishes the same goal with disgusting consistency.

With a certified way of winning, and a diverse card pool at your disposal, you'll soon see why I've spent so much time working on this strategy.

Ok, you understand the basics of what I want to accomplish. That helps a bit, but it won't (really) mean anything until I give you the cards to piece it together with. Let's start with the most crucial part of the equation: discard. While black is well known for it's fast hitting cards like Duress, Hymn to Tourach, and Thoughtseize, it's the mass discard that we are interested in. And so we being our search for the perfect discard engines:
Delirium Skeins
Bottomless Pitt
Oppression
Necrogen Mists
Words of Waste
Mindslicer
Pox
Gibbering Descent

The key to this deck's success, as I've stated many a time, is to hinder your opponents while still beating them down at the same time. Thus, we clearly want to not only take our opponents to 0 cards, but hold them there as well. As such, we want a mix of mass discard, and constant discard. For argument's sake, we'll take Descent and Slicer. These 2 are the best options, but I will explain this in much greater detail later. Well, the Slicer is quite apparent really. It's a rattlesnake effect, once he hits the field people will just pass you by without so much as a glance. If you do use him however, ensure you have a way to remove him. The best combo, in my opinion, is Culling the Weak + Mindslicer + Gibbering Descent. I'm sure it's apparent as to why .

Deck Skeleton (at this point)

4-6x mass discard effects
4-6x constant discard effects
0-8x removal (or meta game choices if you didn't pick Slicer)
4x Dark Ritual
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will




It is at this time that I will point out how crucial I feel the Rituals, DT and Yawgy Will are to any black deck. I consider them auto includes. If you opt to leave them out in favor of other cards, that is at your own discretion. However, there is no greater investment then these 6 cards in my opinion. From this point on I will merely recognize them as the 6 essentials.

So now that we have the discard requirement of a discard control deck, I have to start making good on my claims. Speed, and sustainability, I promised both. So let's start with our plan to burn down our opponents. Really, this can be done in many ways. The most obvious card selections are:
Hollowborn Barghest
Rackling
Megrim
Wheel of Torture
Abyssal Nocturnus

However, that is by no means your only options. Remember, we chose Gibbering Descent as a continuous discard effect. As such, any card we don't play is useless to us. This makes a creature like Urborg Syphon-Mage a very powerful ally. Not only can he turn any card we draw into a Syphon Life, but he also saves us from that 1 life loss tacked on Descent. This is simply the beginning though:
Pestilence
Subversion
Guiltfeeder
Nihilith

Many cards exist that help to burn multiple opponents down at once. This isn't always your only option though. Remember, we're discarding or playing almost everything we draw, as we draw it. Maybe it's time to mention Haakon, Stromgald Scourge. Haakon fills a unique roll in this deck, in that he's a creature who wants to be discarded, and it extremely difficult to remove. Even better, he permits you to use other, cheaper creatures to not only maintain an offense at all times, but have a defensive early game. As such, you lose your Stromgald Crusaders to protect yourself on turns 2-5, and simply resurrect them later as flying finishers. Even better, Haakon is brutal when mixed with Nameless Inversion. Use it to kill small beaters or trouble creatures early on, and once Haakon hits play re-use it any number of times! Devastating.

Finally, we will visit our final option. With all the creatures hitting the GY, we must be able to use them to our advantage. Liliana Vess not only helps with the discard, but can revive an army to end the game in one fell swoop. Mortivore could be a massive regenerating beast. Revenant could be very powerful and fly to boot. Consider many options is what I'm saying.

However, The Rack effects seem to be the most powerful in this form of deck for many reasons. Not only does the damage come before they can untap and destroy it (like they can with creatures), but it's also never a dead draw such as Megrim can be in a top deck situation. This overall lack of faults makes it an ideal choice.

Deck Skeleton (at this point)

4-6x mass discard effects
4-6x constant discard effects
0-8x removal, meta game choices
8-12x win conditions
6x essentials




We've officially created a deck that not only denies opponents of crucial cards, but uses permanents (that we won't discard ourselves) to quickly take them all down at once. There is one problem though. So far I really haven't put out much of a defense. I've p*ssed people off, no question, but people playing fast, aggressive decks will want retaliation, no? A deck like this draws heat, massive heat, so unless we can truly stop our opponents cold, we're screwed.

Now some of you might take a glance at Ensnaring Bridge and pluck it right in, good enough. While it does help keep creature decks at bay, it does very little to combo or control. As such, it is not a be all end all solution. If you have a heavy creature meta, consider it though. Remember, Guiltfeeder still waltzes right past it, and puts that discard into straight up damage.

Maybe you grab your Null Brooch, constant counter is good right? Then again, it only hits one spell a turn. That won't be enough : /. It is useful if you face a lot of enchantment/permanent removal however.

Another great option is Sickening Dreams. Think about it: not only can you clear the board, and madness out Gibbering Descent, but it also makes you go Hellbent. Talk about killing 3 birds with one stone!

Well... Contamination/Infernal Darkness is a good way to stop all your opponents from doing much... but they just don't last long enough. What about Braids, Cabal Minion or Smokestack or Tangle Wire? Bah, they hit us hard too... We could try Magus of the Abyss or Pillar Tombs of Aku or Call to the Grave (Haakon is a zombie ^_^), if only they didn't kill themselves over time...

Hmmm... Glacial Chasm eh... Prevent all damage? But with that kind of land loss we'd never catch up, and I don't want to pay for Crucible of Worlds...

Geez, so many cards at our disposal, but all have horrible drawbacks on our upkeep.

Upkeep...

What is Gibbering Descent's Hellbent effect again?

So if we have no cards in hand (which we won't), and all our opponents only have access to black mana (because of Contamination), and all damage dealt to us is prevented (thanks to Glacial Chasm), how exactly is anyone going to stop us (since black in general can't deal with enchantments or artifacts)?

I think we have our deck ;).

Deck Skeleton (at this point)

4-6x mass discard effects
4-6x constant discard effects
0-8x removal, meta game choices
8-12x win conditions
8-12x resource denial (permanents in play)
6x essentials




And of course, mana sources. Although swamps are acceptable, do not overlook cards like Dakmor Salvage that can be used if discarded, Howltooth Hollow for free cards (like a free Hollowborn Barghest!), Cabal Coffers for big late game Stromgald Crusaders, etc.

Discard Control Skeleton

4-6x mass discard effects
4-6x constant discard effects
0-8x removal, meta game choices
8-12x win conditions
8-12x resource denial (permanents in play)
6x essentials
22x mana sources




But this is only the beginning!
- Try Geth's Grimoire and Words of Waste to generate insane card advantage.
- Try Bosium Strip with Pox and speed up your win.
- Try Nether Spirit with Contamination if you don't use Descent.
- Try Measure of Wickedness for hot-potato action.
- Try the madness route with Big Game Hunter, Psychotic Haze, Nightshade Assassin, and more
- Try discarding big threats (Kokusho, the Evening Star, Hollowborg Barghest) and Exhume-ing or Reanimate-ing them.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Great deck, friend. The fact that it can hold off mutiple opponents -and win- is impressive. I'm going to test the deck out tomorrow in a large MP game and report the results. I'm looking forward to using this.
Nice thread, as always.

Setting the standard high for those who follow you.

I look forward to your article on aggro, Tich.
A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
I look forward to your article on aggro, Tich.

Suicide black built for MP, it's tons of fun lol.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Syphon Soul too weak?
That's a very interesting question. It's one of those yes with if, and no with a but answers.

First of all let's assess how it fits into the deck. What we are trying to do is ultimately keep each player at 0 cards, and use that to win the game. This card, on the surface, helps us by not only forcing discard, but also enabling us to draw vital resources we need to get our lock-down going. However, it has many flaws which (in my mind) make it unusable:

1) It costs 4 mana. Ideally any card that costs 4 mana is going to bring all my opponents to 0 cards, or some large scale effect of that magnitude. For 4 mana, I am only hitting 1 card in our BEST CASE SCENARIO. This bring us to:

2) It's a dead card when my deck is working. When things are going well, people are at, and are staying at, 0 cards. This means that when my deck is working, it becomes a dead card. This anti-synergy is reason alone not to run it. However:

3) Even when my opponents aren't at 0 cards, I still want to be. Contamination, Glacial Chasm, all those cards and more rely on me not having an upkeep. As such, even if my opponents can draw, it is still essential that I do not. Thus, even my deck isn't working, I still don't want to play this card in many scenarios.

For these 3 primary reasons I feel that it isn't a worthy slot.

P.S. Don't let this discourage you from making suggestions though :P. Lots of cards seem good at first, it's important to weed out the cards that will hold you back that lots of people might turn to.

EDIT: Errrr did you mean Syphon Mind? I hope so.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
It may just be me, but I'm scared of having no discard outlets. If you're unable to play a card for some reason, or if your Syphon-Mage is dead...you're in deep upkeep trouble...
You just play whatever you pick up. Pox, Mage, I mean what card is going to be a problem?
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
I have a similar deck to this, and the protection it sits behind is the following:
4x Grafted Skullcap
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Null Brooch

Very similar to yours, but prevents your opponents attacking completely.
Come your turn, the Skullcaps fill your hand up, and you get a swing.

But yeah, great deck. Makes me want to go and grab a few Mindslicers for mine!
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Elemental, My Dear Watson (Rainbow Elementals)
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Verhexterring (Jinxed Ring / Grave Pact)
Flourishing Blowflies ( -1/-1 Counters)
That's a very interesting question. It's one of those yes with if, and no with a but answers.

First of all let's assess how it fits into the deck. What we are trying to do is ultimately keep each player at 0 cards, and use that to win the game. This card, on the surface, helps us by not only forcing discard, but also enabling us to draw vital resources we need to get our lock-down going. However, it has many flaws which (in my mind) make it unusable:

1) It costs 4 mana. Ideally any card that costs 4 mana is going to bring all my opponents to 0 cards, or some large scale effect of that magnitude. For 4 mana, I am only hitting 1 card in our BEST CASE SCENARIO. This bring us to:

2) It's a dead card when my deck is working. When things are going well, people are at, and are staying at, 0 cards. This means that when my deck is working, it becomes a dead card. This anti-synergy is reason alone not to run it. However:

3) Even when my opponents aren't at 0 cards, I still want to be. Contamination, Glacial Chasm, all those cards and more rely on me not having an upkeep. As such, even if my opponents can draw, it is still essential that I do not. Thus, even my deck isn't working, I still don't want to play this card in many scenarios.

For these 3 primary reasons I feel that it isn't a worthy slot.

P.S. Don't let this discourage you from making suggestions though :P. Lots of cards seem good at first, it's important to weed out the cards that will hold you back that lots of people might turn to.

EDIT: Errrr did you mean Syphon Mind? I hope so.

No, actually, I meant Syphon Soul

Syphon Soul is the ultimate monoBlack-multiplayer-They-Hate-You card.

1v1, sure, it's a tiny bit weaker, but in a 1v1v1, 4 life is pretty handy to pull out, especially for 3 mana (not 4 -- that's neu-schule Syphon Mind :P) and it scales up WONDERFULLY...

Other than discard, the "power" of Black is life-trading. I like it -- I use it...

Just a thought -- I always ran 4 in my monoB-party deck... but then, this was when Ice Age was only 1 or 2 expansions old...(Wheres my cane?)
They seem trivial when I have the Mage that turns ANY card into one...
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:

I'm not a card-drawing machine

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??

----------

By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.
First of all, don't quote words I don't use. I never said anything about wasting useless cards. I pick and choose my cards and amounts very carefully, and consider every possible card to fill a niche.

I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:

Going to stop you right here. The entire point of this deck is the possible synergies that Gibbering Descent + no cards in hand brings. If you don't want to discard cards, whoop de friggin doo, but my deck is BASED AROUND IT.

I'm not a card-drawing machine

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.

Lol, that's a very naive way of thinking about it. First of all, mana curve is based on probability. You can (almost) never pick up the perfect number of lands even if you "curve" your deck because what you draw will be random. If you can build magical decks that always curve perfectly, then you have a prosperous life ahead of you. Realistically though, people will pick up excess lands in a multiplayer game (they are relatively longer then duels). This benefit is one reason why I opted to use the spellshaper version.

Secondly, what good is a Slicer when people are locked down to 0 cards? What good is Dark Ritual in top deck mode? What good is another Mage? What good is 2 Glacial Chasms? What good is 2 Contaminations? If you want to use SS, and use it once, that's fine. I like turning ALL my EXTRA, extremely useful, worthwhile cards into an additional win condition. There are cards I need, but not in multiples. I'm not wasting anything, I'm turning effects I no longer require into life.

Finally, it's a win condition. SS will hit ONCE. If I lock the board down but lose my/don't have any Rack effects, I can't win. If that happens, I suddenly have 4 more outs in my deck. You can say deny this if you want, even though my deck does feature a lock with contamination that (in general) prevents them from killing my creature, but he has drained me to victory in the past.

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??

Play them? Creatures get killed, strategies get ruined, plans backfire, that's magic. The cards I'm discarding can easily be played for a minor effect. Sure, I'd rather have more life, but it's not like playing out my entire hand is hard with this deck. The purpose of the mage was never to waste cards. I never said waste, and it kind of made me mad how you kept quoting it like I had. You can say "what if X happens" to any card or strategy, so I'm not going to humor this argument any further.

----------

By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.

This is almost an insulting statement. In my guide to black cards and strategies I have it listed as a card everyone should have (you can check the link and see when it was last updated/edited). I advocate using this card all the time to people here on the forums, and during my real life games. I know it's a good spell, I never said otherwise, I never hinted otherwise, don't talk to me like I don't know that.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Wow, you completely misinterpreted my tone-of-voice.

I'm at work right now, and autocard is blocked, so I'm not able to check up on every card. I also haven't bought more than singles since ... jeez, 8th?

I'm not trying to be combative at all -- just talking, bud.

Also, "Waste" was in quotes because it wasn't being used literally -- I was meaning "not really waste, but sort of waste from a certain point-of-view" ...

------

I'd love to see your deck in action -- I used to like group alot, until I got good enough to *always* be target-#1 in every game... Thanks, in part, to Syphon Soul, of course, Pox, & Pestilence ...
I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:

you don't like those types of cards. Good. IMHO some of them works and some of the don't. I have never felt bad about dropping roar of the wurm in my yard while giving my wild mongrel +1/+1. While I realise that it is your oppinion then I think it is rather silly. I don't like to take damage, but I will still happily use char.

I'm not a card-drawing machine

This Is probably quite true.

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them

But surely you realise that all cards, not even the ones carefully selected by you are good in all situations. In those cases I would think a card that can transfer conditionally dead cards into something useful.

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.

but you don't want it in your grave-yard. You want to trade a momentary useless cards for a useful effect.

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??
what if your opponent storms with tendrils for 10 onturn 2? What if your opponent donates delusions to you? In other word. you have an opponent, he will interfere with you in anyway possible.
----------

By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.

Nobody is denying its power, it just isn't very apropriate for this deck...
This deck is pretty spiffy! My oh my I could learn alot from you Tich since black is my favorite color. Im actually happy that someone's found and even better way to use Howltooth Hollow. With Mindslicer backing it up it becomes that much either. And IMO I have to agree this deck doesn't really require syphon soul. Yes it's power is real but this deck is going for control of each players hand, not neccesarily to drain all of their life totals.
I like the deck, but what do you think about Leechridden Swamp in this? Without ever actually playing the deck, I'd guess that you might not have the two black permanents out often enough, but I don't know.
I like the deck, but what do you think about Leechridden Swamp in this? Without ever actually playing the deck, I'd guess that you might not have the two black permanents out often enough, but I don't know.

Yeah that's kinda what happens when you make a post and then 3 months later they add a card like Leech Swamp :P.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Tich.

You and my black deck should be a team.

lol
I find discard very hard to make work in multi-player, so you have done a fine job here!
I find Geth's Grimoire very usefull if you can get it down, Nihiltih and Tombstalker have good synergy (as your graveyard fills up, and Nihilith can come in very quickly) and they are both rather solid win-cons.
Have you had any issues with deeds blowing up the table?
Have you had any issues with deeds blowing up the table?

Not much I can do about a turn 2 Deed sadly.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Yeah I hear ya my mono blue tangle wire umbilicus deck is the same way.

I hope this thread isn't too old to get a reply from still, I just read it the other day.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this article. I have been interested in making a mono black deck for a while but am just not familiar enough with the color, and this was very insightful. I was hoping someone could enlighten me though as to why one Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will are part of the 6 essentials in general or specifically for this deck. I can see how Yawgmoth's Will would be amazing in this deck especially, but why just one of each? Is it in case you get milled or something like that? I think there is just something big I'm missing.

Also, I really liked the recursive knight idea with Haakon and want to try building a deck with it. When I read that about Nameless Inversion I flipped out a little, that is just awesome. I was curious what you would choose in a decklist for that. Going the same way with Gibbering Descent-Discard/Control, but instead of Glacial Chasm, Contamination, and rack effects, maybe Haakon/Knights. It just doesn't seem to have the same synergy, the use of Descent's hellbent effect is brilliant. Another thing is the creatures seem more tailored for 1-on-1 instead of multiplayer so maybe using The Rack instead of Rackling would also be good. So yeah I was wondering what you would change in it.
My playgroup plays by Vintage banned/restricted lists. If all my decks had 4xYawgmoth's Will, the game wouldn't even be fun. If your group allows you to use 4 of every card, by all means! I think it would ruin the fun of the game if I did though, as does our entire playgroup, so we go with 1 ofs of the Vintage restricted stuff.

See my other article about MP aggro for a good Haakon deck.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Ah I see. Most of the people in the group I play with are pretty new to Magic, including myself, so we don't really have any set restrictions, they just have to be real cards. But then there is the whole price issue too.

Oh ok, I noticed that link but I haven't gotten to reading it yet. Sorry, I should have checked there first. Thanks! And again, good work with the guides, very nice.
Would Cabal Conditioning Be good in this deck if fetched with hideaway?

Bah nevermind just read it, each player must have no cards in hand. Darn.
Old thread, I know, but I recently decided to try this deck out in my multiplayer group.  I will say that this definitely draws hate, and lots of it.  I have a question though, if you wouldn't mind

- Is Smallpox an acceptable substitute for Pox in your final deck list?
- What are your preferred tutor targets when you do eventually draw Demonic Tutor?
- Do you ever put down Glacial Chasm before you can get Gibbering Descent into play?

I find myself hamstrung on mana if anyone else runs Pox/smallpox and opponents like to save counterspells for Mindslicer.  If I hold back until get I can fully combo a mindslicer with smallpox and active my hideaway lands, chances are I get killed before that can happen.  I can't win them all and I get that, but I feel like I am missing something crucial when playing this deck.

thanks in advance Cool
Well um, my new deck doesn't really look like this one any more. This thread is like 4 years old after all :P. I don't usually pair Pox with cards like these any more. My typical discard deck looks something like:


 Something close to this.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
What!  
No Gibbering Descent?
Are you feeling okay Tich? 


LOL
To be honest, I've been playing the cloister in my discard deck too, but I've been chumped a few times by Bottomless Pit, has me nervous to play it.   How does this deck compare to your typical Gibbering Descent deck you shared a while back?
Descent is at most a 2-of. I don't mind it, but I don't think that it's an auto-include. It's a cool card, and it has good synergy with stuff like Glacial Chasm and Contamination, but it's probably not as good as I want it to be. 4 years ago it was fine, but eh, lately cards like that just don't make the cut for me. The only 6 mana cards that I play are basically Kokusho, the Evening Star and Yawgmoth's Bargain.

As far as Bottomless Pit goes, it's meh. The biggest problem is that I can't say "use Liliana of the Veil" because she's like $35.00 or some horseshit amount, and not even I'm willing to buy her for that price. Cunning Lethemancer sucks because he's a creature, and beyond that cards like Oppression don't actually force people to discard anything. Also, I don't care about losing games. I'm not playing for 2nd or 3rd, I play for first. If my deck backfires 1 in 5 times and screws me over, so be it. I'm willing to accept that if I win the other 4 times.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
Wouldn't mutilate be better than massacre

I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
 

How to autocard
 

Most important rule in autocarding is make sure you spell the card correctly.

 

Single Card

[*c]Forest[*/c] minus * = Forest

 

Deck

[*deck]

16 Forest

2 strip mine

[*/deck]

minus * =

Card Nicknames [*c=Wrath of God]WoG[*/c] minus the * = WoG

 

Single Player Decks I'm currently playing

Assault of the Minotaurs

Lands
19 Mountain
4 Khalni Garden
1 Thawing Glaciers

 

Artifacts
4 Didgeridoo
4 Gorgon Flail
1 Konda's Banner
1 Tenza, Godo's Maul

 

Spells
4 Assault Strobe

 

Creatures
4 Adaptive Automaton
4 Anaba Ancestor
4 Minotaur Aggressor
4 Talruum Minotaur
4 Gorehorn Minotaurs
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero

Rapid infenction

Lands

18 Forest
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
4 Glistener Elf
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr

 

Spells
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Griant Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing

Use your Illusion

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Krovikan Mist
3 Phantom Warrior
3 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Adaptive Automaton
3 Illusory Angel

Artifacts
2 Swiftfoot Boots

Spells
3 Sleep
4 Ponder
4 Muddle the Mixture

Goblin deck

Land

16 Mountain

4 Goblin Burrows

 

Spells
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Goblin War Strike
2 Brightstone Ritual
2 Quest for the Goblin Lord

 

Creatures
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Balloon Brigade
3 Goblin Guide
2 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin King
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

Look out the Land is Falling

Lands
4 Evoling Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Plains
9 Forest

Spells
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Cultivate
3 Groundswell

Enchantments
4 Oblivion Ring

Artifacts
2 Adventuring Gear

Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Ruin Ghost
2 Baloth Woodcrasher
2 Rampaging Baloths
4 Emeria Angel
4 Vinelasher Kudzu

Ula's Deep Sea Drezins

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Kraken Hatchling
3 Sage of Epityr
4 Stormtide Leviathan
2 Grozoth
3 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Cursecatcher


Enchantment
4 Quest for Ula's Temple

Spells
4 Preordain
4 Dizzy Spell
4 Clockspinning

Green Beatdown

Lands

18 Forest
4 Treetop Village


Spells
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
2 Might of Oaks

Creatures
4 Albino Troll
4 Groundbreaker
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Viridian Zealot
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Leatherback Baloth
3 River Boa
1 Mire Boa

Elemental Assault

Lands
16 Mountain
4 Teetering Peaks

Spells
4 Lightning bolt
3 Breaking Point
1 Warstorm Surge
4 Brute Force
4 Browbeat
4 Assault Strobe

Creatures
4 Ball Lightning
4 Hell's Thunder
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Spark Elemental
2 Lightning Serpent

Death from the Sky

Land
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Azorius Chancery
4 Seaside Haven
5 Plains
5 Island

 

Creatures
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Soulcatcher
4 Judge's Familar
3 Augury Owl
3 Cloudreach Cavalry
3 Pride of Clouds
2 Emeria Angel
2 Aven Mimeomancer
1 God of Awe

 

Spells
4 Soulcatchers' Aerie
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Battle Screech
2 Airborne Raid

Stompy

Lands
18 Forest

Creatures
3 Garruk's Companion
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Pouncing Jaguar
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Shinen of Life's Roar

Spells
3 Groundswell
4 Rancor
3 Gather Courage
3 Briar Shield
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Fog

Multi-Player Decks I'm currently Playing

Discard

Lands
22 Swamp

 

Spells
4 Innocent Blood
4 Mutilate
4 Sign in Blood

2 Syphon Mind
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Enchantments
4 Necrogen Mists
4 Bottomless Pit
4 Shrieking Affliction

Artifacts
4 Wheel of Torture
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Bottled Cloister

Everyone Burns

18 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Glacial Chasm
1 Shivan Gorge

Creatures
4 Aether Membrane

Artifacts
3 Sun Droplet

Enchantments
4 Quest for Pure Flame

Spells
4 Sizzle
4 Flame Rift
4 Browbeat
4 Flamebreak
4 Acidic Soil
3 Breaking Point
3 Breath of Darigaaz

Brewing a Storm

Lands
2 Glacial Chasm
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Greypelt Refuge
4 Brushland
4 Forest
5 Plains

Spells
3 Wrath of God
2 Hurricane


Enchantment
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Titania's Song
2 Aura of Silence
2 Kismet
1 Fastbond

 

Artifacts
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Storm Cauldron
4 Ankh of Mishra
2 Sun Droplet
1 Venser's Journal
2 Horn of Greed
4 Iron Maiden
4 Darksteel Ingot

Beast Gone Wild

Lands
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Contested Cliffs
4 Kazandu Refuge
4 Gruul Turf
1 Yavimaya Hollow
8 Forest

 

Creatures
4 Krosan Warchief
4 Wirewood Savage
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Rampaging Baloths
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
2 Mold Shambler
2 Terra Stomper
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gruul Ragebeast
1 Silklash Spider
1 Copperhoof Vorrac
1 Ursapine
1 Molder Slug
1 Protean Hulk

 

Enchantments
4 Wild Growth
2 Warstorm Surge
1 Spidersilk Armor

 

Planeswalker
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Elven Rythym Nation

Lands
14 Forest
2 Wirewood Lodge
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
3 Joraga Warcaller
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Priest of Titania
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Imperious Perfect

 

Spells
1 Asceticism
2 Biorhythm
2 Hurricane
2 Eldrazi Monument

I want to drink your blood

Lands
18 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
2 Cabal Coffers

 

Creatures
4 Pulse Tracker
3 Blood Artist
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Falkenrath Noble
2 Bloodline Keeper

 

Enchantments
3 Underworld Connections
1 No Mercy
1 Phyrexian Reclamation

 

Spells
4 Syphon Soul
4 Blood Tithe
3 Exsanguinate

Draw equals Pain

Land
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Deserted Temple
2 Reliquary Tower
3 Island
2 Mountain

 

Creatures
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
2 Jace's Archivist
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
4 Psychosis Crawler

 

Artifacts
4 Howling Mine
4 Iron Maiden
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
1 Ivory Tower

 

Spells
4 Winds of Change
4 Molten Psyche
2 Copy Artifact
2 Sunder
2 Cyclonic Rift

Rainbow Sliver

Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Breeding Pool

 

Creatures
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Acidic Sliver
1 Sliver Overlord
1 Essence Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Brood Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Fury Sliver

 

Spells
3 Distant Melody
1 Creeping Renaissance

 

Artifacts
2 Door of Destinies

soldier

Lands
22 Plains
2 Emeria, Sky Ruin

 

Creatures
4 Veteran Swordsmith
4 Daru Warchief
3 Field Marshal
3 Knight-Captain of Eos
3 Captain of the Watch
3 Catapult Master
2 Loxodon Gatekeeper
2 Angel of Glory's Rise
2 Stormfront Riders
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Odric, Master Tactician

 

Spells
4 Skullclamp
2 Eldrazi Monument
1 Mobilization

 

Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Life Test

Lands
16 Plains
4 Kabira Crossroads
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Miren, the Moaing Well

 

Creatures
4 Wall of Reverence
2 Divinity of Pride
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Kami of False Hope

 

Spells
2 Test of Endurance
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Beacon of Immortality
2 Fracturing Gust
3 Congregate
2 Well of Lost Dreams
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Chastise
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Debtors' Knell

 

Planeswalker
1 Ajani Goldmane

 

Massacre is designed to be played as a free answer to weenies that might otherwise be able to swing past early Ensnaring Bridges/not get popped by early Noetic Scales. The artifacts are designed to handle anything big, so I'm just looking for something to handle the small fries. Also, being free means that we can toss it from our hand at any time, which is important for a "Hellbent" deck like this one. I wnat the removal to be as cheap as possible so that I'm never in a position where I'm drawing cards that I can't cast (for whatever reason).
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
I kinda figured your were playing it that way because it could be free to cast.  I'm taking that your play group someone is always playing some sort of white deck.  i was just curious.  Great post too.  I like how your deck has evolved from 4 years ago until now.

I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
 

How to autocard
 

Most important rule in autocarding is make sure you spell the card correctly.

 

Single Card

[*c]Forest[*/c] minus * = Forest

 

Deck

[*deck]

16 Forest

2 strip mine

[*/deck]

minus * =

Card Nicknames [*c=Wrath of God]WoG[*/c] minus the * = WoG

 

Single Player Decks I'm currently playing

Assault of the Minotaurs

Lands
19 Mountain
4 Khalni Garden
1 Thawing Glaciers

 

Artifacts
4 Didgeridoo
4 Gorgon Flail
1 Konda's Banner
1 Tenza, Godo's Maul

 

Spells
4 Assault Strobe

 

Creatures
4 Adaptive Automaton
4 Anaba Ancestor
4 Minotaur Aggressor
4 Talruum Minotaur
4 Gorehorn Minotaurs
4 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
2 Tahngarth, Talruum Hero

Rapid infenction

Lands

18 Forest
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
4 Glistener Elf
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr

 

Spells
4 Rancor
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Griant Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Invigorate
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing

Use your Illusion

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Krovikan Mist
3 Phantom Warrior
3 Phantasmal Dragon
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Adaptive Automaton
3 Illusory Angel

Artifacts
2 Swiftfoot Boots

Spells
3 Sleep
4 Ponder
4 Muddle the Mixture

Goblin deck

Land

16 Mountain

4 Goblin Burrows

 

Spells
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Goblin War Strike
2 Brightstone Ritual
2 Quest for the Goblin Lord

 

Creatures
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Balloon Brigade
3 Goblin Guide
2 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin King
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mob Boss

Look out the Land is Falling

Lands
4 Evoling Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Plains
9 Forest

Spells
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Cultivate
3 Groundswell

Enchantments
4 Oblivion Ring

Artifacts
2 Adventuring Gear

Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Ruin Ghost
2 Baloth Woodcrasher
2 Rampaging Baloths
4 Emeria Angel
4 Vinelasher Kudzu

Ula's Deep Sea Drezins

Lands
18 Island
4 Halimar Depths

Creatures
4 Inkwell Leviathan
3 Kraken Hatchling
3 Sage of Epityr
4 Stormtide Leviathan
2 Grozoth
3 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Cursecatcher


Enchantment
4 Quest for Ula's Temple

Spells
4 Preordain
4 Dizzy Spell
4 Clockspinning

Green Beatdown

Lands

18 Forest
4 Treetop Village


Spells
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Rancor
2 Might of Oaks

Creatures
4 Albino Troll
4 Groundbreaker
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Viridian Zealot
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Leatherback Baloth
3 River Boa
1 Mire Boa

Elemental Assault

Lands
16 Mountain
4 Teetering Peaks

Spells
4 Lightning bolt
3 Breaking Point
1 Warstorm Surge
4 Brute Force
4 Browbeat
4 Assault Strobe

Creatures
4 Ball Lightning
4 Hell's Thunder
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Spark Elemental
2 Lightning Serpent

Death from the Sky

Land
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Azorius Chancery
4 Seaside Haven
5 Plains
5 Island

 

Creatures
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Soulcatcher
4 Judge's Familar
3 Augury Owl
3 Cloudreach Cavalry
3 Pride of Clouds
2 Emeria Angel
2 Aven Mimeomancer
1 God of Awe

 

Spells
4 Soulcatchers' Aerie
4 Oblivion Ring
2 Battle Screech
2 Airborne Raid

Stompy

Lands
18 Forest

Creatures
3 Garruk's Companion
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Pouncing Jaguar
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Shinen of Life's Roar

Spells
3 Groundswell
4 Rancor
3 Gather Courage
3 Briar Shield
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Fog

Multi-Player Decks I'm currently Playing

Discard

Lands
22 Swamp

 

Spells
4 Innocent Blood
4 Mutilate
4 Sign in Blood

2 Syphon Mind
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Enchantments
4 Necrogen Mists
4 Bottomless Pit
4 Shrieking Affliction

Artifacts
4 Wheel of Torture
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Bottled Cloister

Everyone Burns

18 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Glacial Chasm
1 Shivan Gorge

Creatures
4 Aether Membrane

Artifacts
3 Sun Droplet

Enchantments
4 Quest for Pure Flame

Spells
4 Sizzle
4 Flame Rift
4 Browbeat
4 Flamebreak
4 Acidic Soil
3 Breaking Point
3 Breath of Darigaaz

Brewing a Storm

Lands
2 Glacial Chasm
3 Sunpetal Grove
3 Greypelt Refuge
4 Brushland
4 Forest
5 Plains

Spells
3 Wrath of God
2 Hurricane


Enchantment
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Titania's Song
2 Aura of Silence
2 Kismet
1 Fastbond

 

Artifacts
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Storm Cauldron
4 Ankh of Mishra
2 Sun Droplet
1 Venser's Journal
2 Horn of Greed
4 Iron Maiden
4 Darksteel Ingot

Beast Gone Wild

Lands
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Contested Cliffs
4 Kazandu Refuge
4 Gruul Turf
1 Yavimaya Hollow
8 Forest

 

Creatures
4 Krosan Warchief
4 Wirewood Savage
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Rampaging Baloths
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
2 Mold Shambler
2 Terra Stomper
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gruul Ragebeast
1 Silklash Spider
1 Copperhoof Vorrac
1 Ursapine
1 Molder Slug
1 Protean Hulk

 

Enchantments
4 Wild Growth
2 Warstorm Surge
1 Spidersilk Armor

 

Planeswalker
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Elven Rythym Nation

Lands
14 Forest
2 Wirewood Lodge
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Pendelhaven

 

Creatures
3 Joraga Warcaller
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Priest of Titania
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Imperious Perfect

 

Spells
1 Asceticism
2 Biorhythm
2 Hurricane
2 Eldrazi Monument

I want to drink your blood

Lands
18 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
2 Cabal Coffers

 

Creatures
4 Pulse Tracker
3 Blood Artist
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Falkenrath Noble
2 Bloodline Keeper

 

Enchantments
3 Underworld Connections
1 No Mercy
1 Phyrexian Reclamation

 

Spells
4 Syphon Soul
4 Blood Tithe
3 Exsanguinate

Draw equals Pain

Land
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Deserted Temple
2 Reliquary Tower
3 Island
2 Mountain

 

Creatures
4 Swans of Bryn Argoll
2 Jace's Archivist
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
4 Psychosis Crawler

 

Artifacts
4 Howling Mine
4 Iron Maiden
4 Ebony Owl Netsuke
1 Ivory Tower

 

Spells
4 Winds of Change
4 Molten Psyche
2 Copy Artifact
2 Sunder
2 Cyclonic Rift

Rainbow Sliver

Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Breeding Pool

 

Creatures
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
2 Heart Sliver
2 Acidic Sliver
1 Sliver Overlord
1 Essence Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Brood Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Fury Sliver

 

Spells
3 Distant Melody
1 Creeping Renaissance

 

Artifacts
2 Door of Destinies

soldier

Lands
22 Plains
2 Emeria, Sky Ruin

 

Creatures
4 Veteran Swordsmith
4 Daru Warchief
3 Field Marshal
3 Knight-Captain of Eos
3 Captain of the Watch
3 Catapult Master
2 Loxodon Gatekeeper
2 Angel of Glory's Rise
2 Stormfront Riders
1 Darien, King of Kjeldor
1 Odric, Master Tactician

 

Spells
4 Skullclamp
2 Eldrazi Monument
1 Mobilization

 

Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Life Test

Lands
16 Plains
4 Kabira Crossroads
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Miren, the Moaing Well

 

Creatures
4 Wall of Reverence
2 Divinity of Pride
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Kami of False Hope

 

Spells
2 Test of Endurance
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Beacon of Immortality
2 Fracturing Gust
3 Congregate
2 Well of Lost Dreams
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Chastise
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Debtors' Knell

 

Planeswalker
1 Ajani Goldmane

 

I play with a lot of people. Someone is bound to have a Plains.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
I like how your deck has evolved from 4 years ago until now.



I've tried making up both decks and playing them simultaneously - for funsies - and the modern one is definitely faster to empty your hand, and seems more robust against removal.
The lack of Smallpox is a big plus for me.  I always found it to only be effective against decks with little/no card draw or decks running insufficient lands anyway (ie no-one I know).
Bottomless Pit is nice, I prefer it to Descent, provided you hit your land drops - I still play both though.
 
As far as the list goes, my discard is somewhere in between the two, still run the 'chasm and the gibber jabber as 2-of's and about 26 lands.  I stopped playing cards like Unnerve in favour of continous discard too.

So did you get your list finalised GreenMeanie?
 
  
So....kinda wondering.
For those times you may come up against a nasty deck that draws so much a discard deck has no chance, has anyone tried using Dark suspicions
So....kinda wondering.
For those times you may come up against a nasty deck that draws so much a discard deck has no chance, has anyone tried using Dark suspicions



It's underwhelming at best in my experience. It's a 4 mana "do nothing" conditional enchantment that may or may not start nuking someone down. I typically dislike "uncertainty" when it comes to building my decks, and I can't say what a card like DS will do in a given game. I'd shy away from it unless you had a very good reason to be playing it.
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies

This is why I like the MP forums, because threads are necro-ed from, like, 6 pages away!

I'm surprised I never saw this thread before. I built a madness deck around gibbering decent a while back, and I knew the possibilities, but there are cards in this thread that just make me want to build it all over again!

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Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
(Dark Suspicions) It's underwhelming at best in my experience........I'd shy away from it unless you had a very good reason to be playing it.



Yeah I  thought so.  The first use I thought of here was a draw deck together with One with Nothing/Cloister, not discard - just wondering!
Not a game breaking combo by any means for most decks that are capable of just playing their cards to get out of it.

This is why I like the MP forums, because threads are necro-ed from, like, 6 pages away!



Good isn't it?
Ive found the MP threads usually have a lot more useful advice from long-time players like our OP here.  There seems to be a lot less noob advice happening, than the casual duel deck threads.

The first use I thought of here was a draw deck together with One with Nothing...



Good... God... NO! I refuse to let you put that card in your decks.

Ive found the MP threads usually have a lot more useful advice from long-time players like our OP here.



You're just lucky that I even take the most casual formats way too seriously.



My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706 My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879 My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211 My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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