Starship Position Sheets, WIP

Some of you may recall the Starship Position Sheets I made for the RCR. They basically laid out, by heroic position, all the various options for your turn.

I've started updating them to Saga (now that SotG is out).

You can find my work in progress here.

I welcome any constructive criticism y'all may have!

[15 January UPDATE! The file at the above link now contains the Starship Control, Gunner, Systems Operator, and Engineer sheets! Comments still welcome!]

[22 January UPDATE! The file at the above link now contains all sheets, including a "How to use these sheets" section. Comments are, of course, still welcome!]

[11 March UPDATE! The file at the above link now contains some rules corrections, an improved and expanded "How to Use These Sheets" section, and some better formatting. Comments still welcome!]

[15 July UPDATE! I've uploaded a new file at the link above. It includes a first pass on an 11x17 Snubjockey sheet, which includes all the basic information you'll need to run a single-player starfighter (w/ or w/o Astromech support) off of one sheet. I'll try and create a divided, 2-sheet 8.5x11 out of it, but initial comments are welcome!]

[15 July UPDATE 2!! I've updated the file to also include a first-pass version printable on 2 8.5x11 sheets and then taped together. Thoughts?]
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Put one or two weapon bars on the pilot sheet so that they know what weapons they have access to.

Do you mean the full-on weapon calc from the gunner's page, or just a "Pilot Operated Weapons" line?

If you mean the first, then it probably won't happen (not enough space, and I assume pilots will also have a gunner sheet with their weapons printed on it); if you mean the second, then that might be doable. I'll see if I can fit it in.

I'm sorry to nitpick (these sheets are great!), but I notice that all three weapon entries on the Gunner sheet are listed "Weapon 01".

Oops! Good catch; that one will be fixed in the next update. And, please: nitpick away! Basically, when I make a change to the weapon block, I change Weapon 01, then copy-paste it a couple more times. Looks like the last time, I forgot to change the numbers. :D

My one suggestion would be to add page numbers for reference for things like "Jury Rig" etc., possibly with a superscript E to indicate changes for errata. But that's only 'cause I'm very nerdy. ;)

So, something like "Reroute Power! p10" or "... moves -5 steps on the Condition Track. (p10)"? That should be doable.

On the Starship Control Sheet, the ship's DEX modifier is not included in the equasion for determining Initiative.

Shouldn't it be?

Yep - I missed the rules text (under the Pilot position description, IIRC) on my third read-through or so, and found it again recently. The newest version has a new slot on the Starship Control Sheet to calculate your "Maneuver" modifier (Ship's Size Mod + Ship's Dex Mod). You then add your Maneuver modifier to Initiative, Pilot, and Reflex Defense.

Also, while we're tweaking that part of the sheet, I might suggest fitting the grayscale words "Pilot or" above the grayscale word "Initiative" in the box to the right of the plus sign, since a character can use the higher of either his Pilot or Initiative score for this calculation.

I might do that. However, the "base case" is that you use your Initiative score, with the option of adding your Pilot mod instead. Since I've got the text below that states you can use Pilot if you want ("If trained in Pilot, you may use Pilot instead of Initiative"), I'm not sure it needs to be added.

I'll try it out and see if I like it, however.

Assuming that 1/2 your heroic level is added to starship damage (before the weapon's damage multiplier is applied), maybe, on the Gunner's sheet, there could be a notation to that effect.

It is. I'll make a note about that on the "How To Use These Sheets" page.

Keep 'em coming, people! These are all good tweeks.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
So, I've taken the comments made in this thread and updated a new version.

I haven't implemented all the changes (some of them didn't work out, like the "Init or Pilot" suggestion), but they've been extremely useful in pointing out things I needed to take another look at.

Keep the comments coming! :D
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
So, something like "Reroute Power! p10" or "... moves -5 steps on the Condition Track. (p10)"? That should be doable.

Yes, exactly. It doesn't need to be for every line, just for blocks, and probably for actions (such as your "Reroute Power" example).

-TG
I was just saying because I was trying to keep it to one page per position, but yeah you're right, just put a gunner sheet on the back of the pilot sheet and you're good. (i'm talking about myself here, not you). Glad you got that 1d8 HP into the full round get it working. thought it was supposed to go there too, but wasn't sure. great sheets man! Now we just gotta get someone to do a set of pilot manuever cards like the force power cards
I was just saying because I was trying to keep it to one page per position, but yeah you're right, just put a gunner sheet on the back of the pilot sheet and you're good.

You might be interested in the next sheet I'm going to add, then. It'll be the Starship Command Sheet with some of the fluffier stuff ripped out, two simplified weapons added on (the type may get smaller; we'll see), the Reroute Power and Restore Shields action descriptions, and a sidebar for some Astromech stats.

I call it my "So you wanna be a snubjockey?" sheet.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
That's really helpful Elven. Hats off to you.

When its all finished (or at a convenient benchmark), I wouldn't mind adding it to saga-edition.com. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.
Absolutely interested in sharing this on your site, Tao. The more people who can get some use out of this, the better!

Also - anyone else have any comments?

Were your players able to make efficient use of them, Rob?
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
I love it. I absolutely love it.
Were your players able to make efficient use of them, Rob?

Yes they were, Elven. In fact, I'd say that your sheets were invaluable for Thursday's finale. Your sheets enabled everyone around the table to get a quick grasp on what their character could do in his or her respective position on board the ship. This enabled us to complete the starship combat within an hour, and to move on to the rest of the story. With a starting time of 7 pm, and an ending time of 11 pm, with all loose ends neatly tied up, I'd say it was a whopping success. And I seriously doubt I could have done it quite so efficiently without your sheets.

So, thanks again.
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
Kick. *&#. :D

Did they have any comments for how to improve them? Anything they wanted to see changed? Anything that worked particularly well? Anything that appreciably added to the fun (for instance, lots of people like the "in-universe" names for jury rig, etc.)?

Also, congrats on the additional newborn-to-be! Best wishes to you and your family!
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Kick. *&#. :D

Did they have any comments for how to improve them? Anything they wanted to see changed? Anything that worked particularly well? Anything that appreciably added to the fun (for instance, lots of people like the "in-universe" names for jury rig, etc.)?

Also, congrats on the additional newborn-to-be! Best wishes to you and your family!

Thanks, bro.

To be honest, no one around the table had any critiques for your sheet. In fact, I think they all assumed it was an "official" sheet (being how nicely they're formatted), and, so, it never occurred to them to critique it. One of the players (who's on these boards, in fact, so he probably had some insider information) asked, "are these fan made sheets from the forums?"

I responded, "Yes, they're Elvenshae's sheets," to which he responded, "Oh, he does good work."

I'm not even so sure they noticed the clever "in-universe" names and stuff. I'm sure if they held on to the sheets, looked at them later more carefully, they'd see and appreciate the little extras, like the clever "in-character" references. None of the players (with the exception of, perhaps, one...same guy mentioned above) were very familiar with the starships rules, so it was all they could do to grasp what was on the sheet in front of them. But that's all the more reason why it was helpful.

As for what worked particularly well...I mean, just the whole idea that each player had a crib sheet in front of him or her was invaluable. I managed to pull off a starship encounter for eight players (who had no idea what they were doing in starship combat) with relative ease thanks for those sheets...and without so much as a pre-game primer of the starship rules. That alone was totally incredible. So, I'd say just having them appreciably added to the fun because there was no number-crunching. It took mere minutes for everybody to fill out their respective sheet, and then we were able to focus entirely on roleplaying.
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
Where can I get a copy of the ship position sheets that everyone is raving about?
Please ignore my previous post. I found and downloaded the sheets. They look great and I am sending them to my SWSE GM.
There's a link in the first post.

Or, for those who don't want to scroll back, here. :D
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
I'm not absolutely certain, but I think you might be missing something from the Starship Control page.

I can't find the "Increase Vehicle Speed" action anywhere (and it should strictly be with the pilot stuff, being a Pilot-only action). I might just be missing it (I tend to skip over stuff quite a bit), but I don't think it's there.

Also, more of a stylistic point, on the engineer sheet under "Conditions and Notes" where it says a Used Starship's condition becomes persistent and all that, it's a little unclear when you say "...becomes persistent at the -5 step on the condition track". It sounds a little like you mean at the fifth step down - that is to say, at the disabled stage. It's not a big problem, but if there were a better wording (although I can't think of one), it would improve clarity.

Also, thanks again - these sheets are going to see first use in my game tonight, and I've only just printed them off and admired just how good they are.
I can't find the "Increase Vehicle Speed" action anywhere (and it should strictly be with the pilot stuff, being a Pilot-only action). I might just be missing it (I tend to skip over stuff quite a bit), but I don't think it's there.

It's not there; neither are the all-out movement, "fly," attack run, etc., actions.

Basically, the pilot's got so much other stuff he needs to keep track of that there isn't space on his sheet for the "What actions can I perform?" sections from the other pages.

This is a deliberate design decision, and unfortunately I don't think there's a way to change it. If I were to add one, however, it would be the Increase Speed action, since it has the most rules to it.

It sounds a little like you mean at the fifth step down

No, it's the -5 step on the condition track, or the 3rd step down. I'll see if I can find a better way to word it, though. Any suggestions?

Also, thanks again - these sheets are going to see first use in my game tonight, and I've only just printed them off and admired just how good they are.

You're welcome! And thanks for the compliments. Let me know if anything comes up that can improve them.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Bloody brilliant. Haven't had a chance to peek at SotG much but at first glance these are perfect. I'll post any suggested changes here once I get SotG in my hands again.
Also, more of a stylistic point, on the engineer sheet under "Conditions and Notes" where it says a Used Starship's condition becomes persistent and all that, it's a little unclear when you say "...becomes persistent at the -5 step on the condition track". It sounds a little like you mean at the fifth step down - that is to say, at the disabled stage. It's not a big problem, but if there were a better wording (although I can't think of one), it would improve clarity.

No, it's the -5 step on the condition track, or the 3rd step down. I'll see if I can find a better way to word it, though. Any suggestions?

I've been thinking about it, and I haven't found wording yet that makes it absolutely clear. So, I tried a graphical solution.

What do y'all think of this?

IMAGE(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/Elvenshae/Used_Ship_Highlight.jpg)
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
I like that. Makes it clear if you really are thrown (like I was at first) and if you're not (like everyone else) it subconsciously links the two. You're more likely to remember.

Two thumbs up, plus more if you'll allow me to play something with more arms.
That looks pretty good. Speaking only for myself, as far as the condition track goes, I only need a "tickler" rather than the whole rule spelled out. It's the more finicky things ("How many swift actions does aiming take again?") that I need full text references for.

-The Gneech
So, I'm working on the "Snubjockey" sheet (a sheet designed so that a single player has the most common tasks for running a fighter at his fingertips)...

How do people feel about 11x17 for a character sheet?
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Elvenshae,

Your starship control sheets are great! Thanks for sharing them with all of us.

I'm going to be using them this weekend for some first-time space combat. The way everything is broken down will be very helpful for my new players.

thanks!

gmg.
A snubjockey sheet sounds great, A3 if it has to be. I'd love to see a little flowchart for Dogfighting ("Engage in Dogfight: opposed pilot check -5 -> Successful? etc.), but heaven knows how you'd fit it on a character sheet.
11x17 is fine. Two 8.5x11 sheets meant to be back-to-back would be good too.
Definitely intersted in that snubfighter sheet there Shae. 11x17 is fine, we'll just have to go out and get some legal sized paper, don't currently have any in the abode. Or like the other guy said, two 8.5x11 back to back. My group is hopefully going to finish up AWH soon and be on to QoAD where I plan to introduce these sheets. One of my guys has looked at these already and loved them. I'll make sure to ask what they think could be improved. Thanks again.
I'd have some problems printing out 11x17 with the exception that I have a printer where I work that does it.

Legal size (8 1/2 by 14) would be accessible to more people I think.
Ooops, yeah I was thinking legal sized 8.5 by 14... 11 by 17 I don't have a printer that will handle that either. Might be one at the university here, but not sure I can access that much longer as I hope to be graduated here in a week or two.
In that case, I'll make it 11x17 - but make sure that it can be printed as two 8.5x11s.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
First of all, thanks for this. It's very helpful and you are quite selfless to do this for the community.

My initial feedback is that standard paper is better if only most gamers use standard paper and that would make it easier to keep the papers organized (without having to fold pages, etc).

Another bit of feedback, have you considered including the Jedi talent Skilled Advisor on one of these sheets, perhaps the commander sheet? My group has a Jedi with that talent that takes the commander role.

Once I've tested this out, I'll provide feedback if my group has any.
Please Note: I changed my username from "Sodan" to "DroidDreamer"
Any update regarding the starfighter sheet?
Still working on it.

I haven't had much free time, recently, to sit down and do layout work, so it's taking a bit longer than I originally intended it to take.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Very good character sheet. Almost solved all problems that my group encountered during starship fights. Now i can make starship encounters more often.

Awesome, thank you.
Glad to help out! Let me know if your players have any feedback on things that either 1)worked really well or 2)didn't work so well.
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Thank you for your great work and sharing it with us. This sheet helps a lot to run spacecombat und starship operation very smoothely. Keep up the good work.

Best wishes,
Meschler
Elven, I just downloaded your .PDF and it looks great. However, under ship's stores on the Starship Engineer sheet you have a month defined as four 5-day weeks. A Star Wars month is seven 5-day weeks (a total of 35 days).
So, I'm working on the "Snubjockey" sheet (a sheet designed so that a single player has the most common tasks for running a fighter at his fingertips)...

Elvenshae,

Not to rush genius, but I would LOVE to have this for my Thursday evening game. Is there any chance it's in any state of near-completedness?

*awaits hopefully*
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
Hrm.

Not as complete as I'd like - the formatting is a right pain in the butt, since I'm trying to make it printable on two 8.5 x 11s, rather than requiring an 11x17.

Would you have an issue with the latter?
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Mmm...not sure. I don't think my printer has the capability of printing to such a large piece of paper...plus...I don't have any paper that size.

I'd be fine, though, taping two 8 1/2 " x 11 " sheets of paper together.
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
In 11x17, would it be double-sided?
Single-sheet 11x17.

Since I've got the 11x17 in a preliminary format, I'll go ahead and toss it up now. I'll try and get a divided version done, as well, but I make no promises, seniors.

-P-
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
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