June 6th Article Discussion Thread

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This thread is to discuss today's new article, which can be found here

Alison L.
Associate Community Manager
Official MTG Twitter: @Wizards_Magic Official MTGO Twitter: @MagicOnline

is this a joke?

 

And no, I'm talking about how you got the date wrong. I'm talking about the DE payout.

 

I specifically pointing to the part were instaead of giving away $44/$24 of product for placing in a daily, you expect people to play in a MUCH more expensive format for $42/$14 - which of course equates so essentially $42 LESS product given away for each 16 players that join.

 

How about instead of trying to fool us by giving away less VMA packs, you just pay out 11/6 Standard packs and we'll just  back to selling them on the open market like we always did.

 

Other Edit:  i will add the other payouts in other events are either equal or generous, so I don't understand why just 2 packs for 3-1 a DE, when 3 packs seems MUCH more inline with every other DE ($21 worth of product vs $24)

Classic Quarter
(www.classicquarter.com)

So, assuming all packs are worth their retail cost, that means that for dailies in the new formats, going 3-1 pays out 14$ instead of $24 for existing dailies. 4-0 isn't as bad, but still a cut, from $44 to $42.

 

In summary, this means that the daily events for the Legacy and Vintage will require a more expensive deck to play, cost the same to enter as other events, but pay out significantly less, more than a 40% cut in prizes for 3-1.

 

Am I missing something here? It really seems like either whoever did the prizes for these things either failed to do some basic math, or assumed none of the players would. 

dangerlinto wrote:

Other Edit:  i will add the other payouts in other events are either equal or generous

 

The 2 player queues are worse, they entry fee doubled, but the value of the prize(again by retail price) only went up to 7$ instead of 8$.

 

 

longtimegone wrote:

 

dangerlinto wrote:

Other Edit:  i will add the other payouts in other events are either equal or generous

 

 

The 2 player queues are worse, they entry fee doubled, but the value of the prize(again by retail price) only went up to 7$ instead of 8$.

 

 

 

Well, I'm happy enough to take into consideration how it's impossible for something like that to be completely even.  They can't charge 3.5 tickets and VMA packs aren't $8.    And as a matter of fact if VMA packs maintain their value better than whatever Standard/Modern give away it's a wash.

 

It's only the 2 packs for 3-1 a DE that is either a kick to the gut or a very poorly placed typo.

Classic Quarter
(www.classicquarter.com)

I don't understand what it means when a 2-Player Constructed queue has a size of "4 players". This is true for both Legacy and Vintage.

pcjr wrote:

I don't understand what it means when a 2-Player Constructed queue has a size of "4 players". This is true for both Legacy and Vintage.

It's a pretty clear typo. At this point, I'm just hoping it's not the only one.

I really don't understand this at all.  In SotP last week, I tried to figuure out how Wizards could have felt that the costs and payouts for the release events were reasonable.  If you added in the value of the cards you would open, it came close to breaking even.  A bit tortured, but I thought I could understand how they got to the payouts they offered.

 

 As for the constructed - I have no idea what they were thinking.  Yes, the packs are more expensive, but the math just does not work out.   Unless Wizards is planning on cutting the prize support for every other format, you really don't want to grind constructed Vintage and Legacy.   Just play anything else - the decks are a lot cheaper, and the payout is significantly better. 

 

There is one event in today's annnouncement that looks appealing: the VM Sealed Dailies.  Entry is 35 TIX, or 2 TIX plus product.  Since product is six packs, the 35 TIX is a nice discount - but probably just another typo. 

 

I usually start working on the number curnching for SotP about now, and I had planned on calculating the costs and EV of Vintage this evening - but I don't know.  4 players per 2 man?  35TIX for a 6 pack sealed?  Drastic prize value cuts for 3-1 in Dailies?   If these numbers are wrong, there is no point doing the math.  If the numbers are right, then it is still wrong for the format.

 

Sigh.  I'll check again later.  Maybe this is all a bad dream. 

 

EDIT:  okay - some of the typos are fixed, but the prize payouts are still bad.

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

What is the actual Ev of a constructed queue now? Aren't the prize packs worth less than 2.5?

Calavera on MTGO I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours! Things that I want to see changed on MTGO: 1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events. 2: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts. 3: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible. 4: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly! 5: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper 6: Power 9! 7: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic) 8: Program Split option back in! 9: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp) 10: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor. 11: Bring leagues Back!
Assuming prizes are worth retail (I'm aware that they are not) then
Vintage queues pay out 7 packs @ 7 tix/pack = 49
Standard queues pay out 12 packs @ 4 tix/pack = 48
 
The dailies are strictly worse, I wouldn't be surprised if they revised the prizes before the downtime ends. If they increased the DE prizes from 6 to 7 and 2 to 3 then Vintage would still be worse than Standard.  
 
Players Packs Tickets  
1 7 49  
4 3 84  
      V.M.
      133
       
1 11 44  
4 6 96  
      Standard
      140
 
In other words, no reason to buy into Legacy/Vintage if you weren't planning to before.

The_Sensei wrote:
In other words, no reason to buy into Legacy/Vintage if you weren't planning to before.

 

I'd go so far as to say it's a very good reason not to buy in if you were planning to before. 

The_Sensei wrote:
Assuming prizes are worth retail (I'm aware that they are not) then
Vintage queues pay out 7 packs @ 7 tix/pack = 49
Standard queues pay out 12 packs @ 4 tix/pack = 48
 
The dailies are strictly worse, I wouldn't be surprised if they revised the prizes before the downtime ends. If they increased the DE prizes from 6 to 7 and 2 to 3 then Vintage would still be worse than Standard.  
 
n other words, no reason to buy into Legacy/Vintage if you weren't planning to before.

 

Even if you are it's not the right approach to go about it. Just wait a month or so and buy the singles for the deck type you want to make and it will be much cheaper. I anticipate over the long-term Legacy/Vintage will be cheaper if they are infact making queue's for those with VM payouts. Can you imagine over the course of 6 month+ how many extra supplies of boosters and singles there will be IF there's no end to this dailies/campaigns. GURANTEED 100% packs and singles will be cheaper later if those events are part of the norm. Absolutly no reason to buy in dailies of VM during release or even post-release.

Wow what a major dissappointment, I had my hopes up to play VMA and build a Vintage deck but with the prize support for Vintage DE's I see where this is going.  For a format where a constructed deck is so expensive I would expect a BETTER pay-out than any other format not worse.

 

Alison can you please take this back to the powers that be and share the feedback?  I do not want Vintage doomed before it even begins...

Homer-s_Duff wrote:

Alison can you please take this back to the powers that be and share the feedback? 

 

Been sharing it all day. When announcements are made I always pass along the community's feedback to the team.

Alison L.
Associate Community Manager
Official MTG Twitter: @Wizards_Magic Official MTGO Twitter: @MagicOnline

I think I see what's going on here...

 

 

EDIT: since it's not coming up in its original size. The Red line is the old DE events (Standard payout 11/6), and the Blue line is Vintage Master's payout.

rukcus wrote:

I think I see what's going on here...

[graph]


Could you explain your calculations?  Is this based on one event or multiple?  If number of players is for a single event, is this the payout based on a Pascal's triangle, or something else?  I think I understand, but some explanation would help.

 

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

Wizards_Alison wrote:

 

Homer-s_Duff wrote:

Alison can you please take this back to the powers that be and share the feedback? 

 

 

Been sharing it all day. When announcements are made I always pass along the community's feedback to the team.

Thanks. 

PRJ wrote:

 

rukcus wrote:

I think I see what's going on here...

[graph]

 


Could you explain your calculations?  Is this based on one event or multiple?  If number of players is for a single event, is this the payout based on a Pascal's triangle, or something else?  I think I understand, but some explanation would help.

 

 

I sorta think I get what he is showing but would like an explaination as well.

I think this pretty much clinches that Wizards has no intention of fostering growth of a Legacy or Vintage community. If anything the recent announcements suggest that Wizards is trying to get as much out of this set as possible as a cash grab while simultaneously strangling Vintage in the crib.

 

This fits the larger pattern. I think Wizards sees limited as the cash cow and constructed is a necessary evil. Standard and Block have the most value to keeping limited healthy, so that's where the want as much player focus as possible to go. Support for anything else will be pretty much minimal, with the exception of possibly Modern. I'd be willing to bet though that in another five or ten years Modern will be replaced by a new format that will be M15 forward.

PRJ wrote:

 

rukcus wrote:

I think I see what's going on here...

[graph]

 


Could you explain your calculations?  Is this based on one event or multiple?  If number of players is for a single event, is this the payout based on a Pascal's triangle, or something else?  I think I understand, but some explanation would help.

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/27qr38/mtgo_vintage_masters_payout_for_dailypremier/

 

Well that's the point really, based on a Swiss Triangle, the payout of prizes grows better with the prize structure 11b/6b/4tix than with 6b/2b/7tix for (4-0,3-1,MSRP). That is, for every person who enters with the 11/6/4, more of the prizes are returned to the players - even subsidized. It is less so with the 6/2/7 model.

Independent variable: # of players
Dependent variable: Difference of Player's take (Boosters won * MSRP) and WotC's rake (# of players * Entry fee)

 

Boosters won was calculated from a Swiss/Pascal's Triangle after 4 rounds of play for events between 16-128 players, with no draws (as with MTGO). Pair-downs assumed to have gone towards the player with higher points.

 

The graph only used assumed 4 tix secondary market value as an example. In reality it will likely be lower as the market value of boosters drop to 3, then 2 tix. Likewise it could be said that this might happen with VM packs too, but is unlikely. 

 

The graph illustrated to me immediately after I ran the calculations specifically that the existing payouts for Daily Events is very much not in WotC's benefit whatsoever. 

rukcus wrote:

The graph illustrated to me immediately after I ran the calculations specifically that the existing payouts for Daily Events is very much not in WotC's benefit whatsoever. 

 

That's because the graph doesn't show the benefit that those dailies bring.

 

WotC has as much as directly said that the daily events are subsidised to keep the demand for cards from the Constructed market high. It's important that the drafters are able to sell their cards to partially offset their cost of drafting so that they can keep going longer. By creating a small subsidy to Constructed via daily events, the demand for cards pushes Limited more than enough to offset the cost of giving out more packs(which isn't high to begin with, given that they don't have to print anything). 

longtimegone wrote:

 

rukcus wrote:

The graph illustrated to me immediately after I ran the calculations specifically that the existing payouts for Daily Events is very much not in WotC's benefit whatsoever. 

 

 

That's because the graph doesn't show the benefit that those dailies bring.

 

WotC has as much as directly said that the daily events are subsidised to keep the demand for cards from the Constructed market high. It's important that the drafters are able to sell their cards to partially offset their cost of drafting so that they can keep going longer. By creating a small subsidy to Constructed via daily events, the demand for cards pushes Limited more than enough to offset the cost of giving out more packs(which isn't high to begin with, given that they don't have to print anything). 

 

If that's the case then they should decrease the increaments of when those dailies happen to adjust with growth of the playerbase. I get off work 6pm pst which is just past the 6pm pst daily and i would have to do the 12am daily just to sleep for 5 or so hours. They really need to do like a 3 hour rotation.  6am, 9am, noon, 3pm, etc. wouldn't this benefit everyone in the end?

 

Wizards will get people like me who would get on for the 9pm daily consistantly rather than doing the midnight one whenever they feel like they could sleep less that day. @Wizards_Alison it would be nice if you could pass this along. I love magic and I'm a big client of this game and I will continue to be and it would be nice to play my constructed deck in a "tournement style" like the dailies where its more available for people like me. I understand there's 8-man queues but call me crazy wouldn't even be more fair to have it every say hour even? 8-man's and 2-man's shoot off quite often and that often is within an hour. that 6 hour gap is a big one.

Lucardes wrote:
If that's the case then they should decrease the increaments of when those dailies happen to adjust with growth of the playerbase. I get off work 6pm pst which is just past the 6pm pst daily and i would have to do the 12am daily just to sleep for 5 or so hours. They really need to do like a 3 hour rotation.  6am, 9am, noon, 3pm, etc. wouldn't this benefit everyone in the end?

 

Wizards will get people like me who would get on for the 9pm daily consistantly rather than doing the midnight one whenever they feel like they could sleep less that day. @Wizards_Alison it would be nice if you could pass this along. I love magic and I'm a big client of this game and I will continue to be and it would be nice to play my constructed deck in a "tournement style" like the dailies where its more available for people like me. I understand there's 8-man queues but call me crazy wouldn't even be more fair to have it every say hour even? 8-man's and 2-man's shoot off quite often and that often is within an hour. that 6 hour gap is a big one.

I think the reason why DEs are so limited is because of server load. Running too many Events at once would probably melt whatever server they run MODO on. I just wish there were actual investments to make MTGO an enjoyable experience instead of the mess we still have after so many years.

 

Wizards isn't "losing" money by paying out prices since it isn't actual money. They earn money from people joining events, since the tickets used there need to be bought from their shop at some point. Making certains events less attractive by reducing payout could actually lose them money if people don't compensate it by wasting more tickets on other side events.

 

That said, I'm pretty unhappy with the payout changes. 3 Vintage Masters packs for a 3-1 would have been reasonable. With the new payout model, I'm going to grab the last few QP points I need for the promo and call it a day until payout becomes more reasonable again.

So as far as I can tell...

16 player DE takes in 96 
Standard pays out 35 packs at 4 = 140
Vintage pays out 14 packs at 7 = 98

So wizards chips in 44 packs for standard and 2 for vintage. Because standard sucks?

Now if you change value of standard packs to 3 then it pays out 105, if we go with 2.6667 (close to actual) only 94!

So maybe they just think VMA packs will retain 7 tix value. 

 

Note also that now the VMA des at 16 players are same Ev as an 8man with 1 more QP. 

8man takes in 48 pays out 49 and 3 QP whereas de takes in 96 pays out 98 and 7 QP.  

Calavera on MTGO I collect Zendikar Foil Basic lands. Trade me yours! Things that I want to see changed on MTGO: 1: 64 man drafts added to rotation of Events. 2: Visual/Audible Notification of disconnect, deckbuild/afk time expiring and round starts. 3: Prize Payouts as close to draft sets as possible. 4: Rotate Classic draft queues monthly! 5: MOCS level events for Classic/Pauper 6: Power 9! 7: Award Promo Cards for Constructed PEs (esp for Legacy/Classic) 8: Program Split option back in! 9: Set Favorite version in deck editor (i.e. always use x swamp) 10: Better sorting of gold cards in deck editor. 11: Bring leagues Back!

Lucardes wrote:

@Wizards_Alison it would be nice if you could pass this along. I love magic and I'm a big client of this game and I will continue to be and it would be nice to play my constructed deck in a "tournement style" like the dailies where its more available for people like me. I understand there's 8-man queues but call me crazy wouldn't even be more fair to have it every say hour even? 8-man's and 2-man's shoot off quite often and that often is within an hour. that 6 hour gap is a big one.

 

Done and done. Switching up the Daily Event schedule has been something I've been pushing for for a while.

Alison L.
Associate Community Manager
Official MTG Twitter: @Wizards_Magic Official MTGO Twitter: @MagicOnline

Wizards_Alison wrote:

 

Lucardes wrote:

@Wizards_Alison it would be nice if you could pass this along. I love magic and I'm a big client of this game and I will continue to be and it would be nice to play my constructed deck in a "tournement style" like the dailies where its more available for people like me. I understand there's 8-man queues but call me crazy wouldn't even be more fair to have it every say hour even? 8-man's and 2-man's shoot off quite often and that often is within an hour. that 6 hour gap is a big one.

 

 

Done and done. Switching up the Daily Event schedule has been something I've been pushing for for a while.

 

@Wizards_Alison Respect and Love thank you!

If I understand the article correctly, people can start winning VMA packs a couple of days before the VMA Prerelease events begin. I wonder if the idea of opening a Black Lotus this early (i.e. being one of the first to have one to sell) will be enough incentive for people to crack these packs? For a day or so, the number of Black Lotus's available online could probably be counted on one hand that's missing some fingers.

Odds are, none - zero - Black Lotuses will be opened.  Seriously, even in a best case scenario, the odds are only about 50/50 that even one Black Lotus will be given away in a prize pack, and that pack may very well not be opened. 

 

We don't have the new Legacy event schedule, but if Wizards replaces all the Theros block constructed events with Legacy and Vintage events, there would only be 11 DEs paying out VM packs between the downtime Wed. and the start of the prereleases Friday noon.  Some of those DEs are at very strange times (4am anyone?)   Let's be really optimistic and assume that 8 of those events fire, and they average 40 players per event.  With 40 players, we can expect two players at 4-0 and 10 at 3-1.  4-0 pays out 6 VM packs each, and 3-1 pays out 2 VM packs.  That's 32 prize packs per event w/ 40 players, times 8 events, for a total of 256 VM packs paid out before the start of the prerelease.  Even if every one of those packs was opened immediately, with a piece of power appearing once every 53 packs we can only expect 4-5 pieces of power to be in the prize packs.  As for a  Black Lotus - the odds are slightly above 50/50 that it could be in the packs, and less than 50/50 that one would be opened if people keepany of thier VM packs to draft with later.  

 

 

 

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

PRJ wrote:

Odds are, none - zero - Black Lotuses will be opened.  Seriously, even in a best case scenario, the odds are only about 50/50 that even one Black Lotus will be given away in a prize pack, and that pack may very well not be opened. 

 

We don't have the new Legacy event schedule, but if Wizards replaces all the Theros block constructed events with Legacy and Vintage events, there would only be 11 DEs paying out VM packs between the downtime Wed. and the start of the prereleases Friday noon.  Some of those DEs are at very strange times (4am anyone?)   Let's be really optimistic and assume that 8 of those events fire, and they average 40 players per event.  With 40 players, we can expect two players at 4-0 and 10 at 3-1.  4-0 pays out 6 VM packs each, and 3-1 pays out 2 VM packs.  That's 32 prize packs per event w/ 40 players, times 8 events, for a total of 256 VM packs paid out before the start of the prerelease.  Even if every one of those packs was opened immediately, with a piece of power appearing once every 53 packs we can only expect 4-5 pieces of power to be in the prize packs.  As for a  Black Lotus - the odds are slightly above 50/50 that it could be in the packs, and less than 50/50 that one would be opened if people keepany of thier VM packs to draft with later.  

 

 

 


 

Your not considering the drafted cards and the product used (sealed and drafts) to get on the drafts/sealed as well. Mathmatics and algorithims are not 100%. Yes odds is bad but the odds of 2 black lotus showig up on a pack then 5 packs later is still there. Because of randomness and variance of things, it can happen in the most unexpected ways, so guranteeing no black lotuses shows up before pre-release is a big assumption that I think would suprrise you how many "might" actually be opened. Also don't forget many players out there buy boosters outright from store and open them which we are not accounting (Ofcourse who would do that right? but still there's people like that and it's not a small sample either). Given this product and the support wizards are giving them after release (through constructed dailies etc,) the prices of black lotus and the other power 9 WILL ONLY GO DOWN as logically speaking the supply will just increase overtime with no end in sight.

 

Innistrad is a cycle and once it's out of standard Lilyana goes up termendously, But if VM is being payed out for Legacy and Vintage and that payout is still being payed out in VM with no end or replacement in sight again it is guranteed over the long-run all those VM cards will go for cheap. Call me crazy Black Lotus under 100 tix is possible sometime early next year maybe even later this year if the support from playerbase on buying packs/drafting/joining constructed is well and alive.

Unless I misunderstood the article, PRJ's not considering the drafted cards because there won't be any VMA drafts after the June 11 downtime until the Prerelease events begin on Friday.

 

However, I think that PRJ didn't take into account the fact that there are 2-man queues that will be paying out VMA packs starting tomorrow.

Lucardes wrote:

 

PRJ wrote:

Odds are, none - zero - Black Lotuses will be opened.  Seriously, even in a best case scenario, the odds are only about 50/50 that even one Black Lotus will be given away in a prize pack, and that pack may very well not be opened. 

 

We don't have the new Legacy event schedule, but if Wizards replaces all the Theros block constructed events with Legacy and Vintage events, there would only be 11 DEs paying out VM packs between the downtime Wed. and the start of the prereleases Friday noon.  Some of those DEs are at very strange times (4am anyone?)   Let's be really optimistic and assume that 8 of those events fire, and they average 40 players per event.  With 40 players, we can expect two players at 4-0 and 10 at 3-1.  4-0 pays out 6 VM packs each, and 3-1 pays out 2 VM packs.  That's 32 prize packs per event w/ 40 players, times 8 events, for a total of 256 VM packs paid out before the start of the prerelease.  Even if every one of those packs was opened immediately, with a piece of power appearing once every 53 packs we can only expect 4-5 pieces of power to be in the prize packs.  As for a  Black Lotus - the odds are slightly above 50/50 that it could be in the packs, and less than 50/50 that one would be opened if people keepany of thier VM packs to draft with later.  

 

 

 

 


 

Your not considering the drafted cards and the product used (sealed and drafts) to get on the drafts/sealed as well. Mathmatics and algorithims are not 100%. Yes odds is bad but the odds of 2 black lotus showig up on a pack then 5 packs later is still there. Because of randomness and variance of things, it can happen in the most unexpected ways, so guranteeing no black lotuses shows up before pre-release is a big assumption that I think would suprrise you how many "might" actually be opened. Also don't forget many players out there buy boosters outright from store and open them which we are not accounting (Ofcourse who would do that right? but still there's people like that and it's not a small sample either). Given this product and the support wizards are giving them after release (through constructed dailies etc,) the prices of black lotus and the other power 9 WILL ONLY GO DOWN as logically speaking the supply will just increase overtime with no end in sight.

 

Innistrad is a cycle and once it's out of standard Lilyana goes up termendously, But if VM is being payed out for Legacy and Vintage and that payout is still being payed out in VM with no end or replacement in sight again it is guranteed over the long-run all those VM cards will go for cheap. Call me crazy Black Lotus under 100 tix is possible sometime early next year maybe even later this year if the support from playerbase on buying packs/drafting/joining constructed is well and alive.

 

Vinitage Masters will not be available in the store until June 16th.

 

Prereleases begin June 13th at 10am, PDT.

 

Vintage and Legacy Constructed DEs begin paying out VM packs after the downtime June 11th.  Between the downtime and the start of the prerelease events, the only way to get VM packs will be to win them in those particular events.   

 

Eventually, yes, more will be openned.  However, I was just addressing pcjr's question of how many Black Lotuses (Loti?) will be opened before the prerelease begins. 

 

FWIW, Wizards has said the currently scheduled VM limited events will end  when Kahns of Takir (however that is spelled) comes out in October.  We will see if tthey will offer VM events after that, either as an occassional thing, as special events or just as flashback events.

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

PRJ wrote:

 

Lucardes wrote:

 

PRJ wrote:

Odds are, none - zero - Black Lotuses will be opened.  Seriously, even in a best case scenario, the odds are only about 50/50 that even one Black Lotus will be given away in a prize pack, and that pack may very well not be opened. 

 

We don't have the new Legacy event schedule, but if Wizards replaces all the Theros block constructed events with Legacy and Vintage events, there would only be 11 DEs paying out VM packs between the downtime Wed. and the start of the prereleases Friday noon.  Some of those DEs are at very strange times (4am anyone?)   Let's be really optimistic and assume that 8 of those events fire, and they average 40 players per event.  With 40 players, we can expect two players at 4-0 and 10 at 3-1.  4-0 pays out 6 VM packs each, and 3-1 pays out 2 VM packs.  That's 32 prize packs per event w/ 40 players, times 8 events, for a total of 256 VM packs paid out before the start of the prerelease.  Even if every one of those packs was opened immediately, with a piece of power appearing once every 53 packs we can only expect 4-5 pieces of power to be in the prize packs.  As for a  Black Lotus - the odds are slightly above 50/50 that it could be in the packs, and less than 50/50 that one would be opened if people keepany of thier VM packs to draft with later.  

 

 

 

 


 

Your not considering the drafted cards and the product used (sealed and drafts) to get on the drafts/sealed as well. Mathmatics and algorithims are not 100%. Yes odds is bad but the odds of 2 black lotus showig up on a pack then 5 packs later is still there. Because of randomness and variance of things, it can happen in the most unexpected ways, so guranteeing no black lotuses shows up before pre-release is a big assumption that I think would suprrise you how many "might" actually be opened. Also don't forget many players out there buy boosters outright from store and open them which we are not accounting (Ofcourse who would do that right? but still there's people like that and it's not a small sample either). Given this product and the support wizards are giving them after release (through constructed dailies etc,) the prices of black lotus and the other power 9 WILL ONLY GO DOWN as logically speaking the supply will just increase overtime with no end in sight.

 

Innistrad is a cycle and once it's out of standard Lilyana goes up termendously, But if VM is being payed out for Legacy and Vintage and that payout is still being payed out in VM with no end or replacement in sight again it is guranteed over the long-run all those VM cards will go for cheap. Call me crazy Black Lotus under 100 tix is possible sometime early next year maybe even later this year if the support from playerbase on buying packs/drafting/joining constructed is well and alive.

 

 

Vinitage Masters will not be available in the store until June 16th.

 

Prereleases begin June 13th at 10am, PDT.

 

Vintage and Legacy Constructed DEs begin paying out VM packs after the downtime June 11th.  Between the downtime and the start of the prerelease events, the only way to get VM packs will be to win them in those particular events.   

 

Eventually, yes, more will be openned.  However, I was just addressing pcjr's question of how many Black Lotuses (Loti?) will be opened before the prerelease begins. 

 

FWIW, Wizards has said the currently scheduled VM limited events will end  when Kahns of Takir (however that is spelled) comes out in October.  We will see if tthey will offer VM events after that, either as an occassional thing, as special events or just as flashback events.

 

Ahh I see thanks for the clarification. That is one hellofa confusing "weird" scheudle.

pcjr wrote:

Unless I misunderstood the article, PRJ's not considering the drafted cards because there won't be any VMA drafts after the June 11 downtime until the Prerelease events begin on Friday.

 

However, I think that PRJ didn't take into account the fact that there are 2-man queues that will be paying out VMA packs starting tomorrow.

I did miss that.  doh.   Both 2 and 8 man on demand Legacy and Vintage queues will be paying out VM packs. 

 

So what does unpowered Vintage look like, anyway?

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

PRJ wrote:

So what does unpowered Vintage look like, anyway?

It looks really sad for the person who gets paired up against that one individual who happens to get a hold of some power before noon Friday! Other than that, doesn't it look a lot like Classic? I have no idea.

pcjr wrote:

 

PRJ wrote:

So what does unpowered Vintage look like, anyway?

 

It looks really sad for the person who gets paired up against that one individual who happens to get a hold of some power before noon Friday! Other than that, doesn't it look a lot like Classic? I have no idea.

 

Not really.  1x Brainstorm but no blue power with 4x Lodestone means a lot of Shops, Dredge and decks built specifically to hate on those two.

Classic Quarter
(www.classicquarter.com)
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