Teams Ruining 2 Hand Giant Games

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Ok,

I love to play 2 Hand Giant games. I've always played games on paper with friends, and it was a free for all. But free for all on MTGO isn't fun because you have players that build decks that win within 5 turns, or they play with a buddy who supports them the whole game. Thus the format of 2 Hand Giant worked well for me. I found people there played just for the fun of it. Until about a year ago.

There are clans that have ruined this experience too. I won't name them (not because I'm afraid to, but I don't know if it violates the user rules by naming them), but will give you their initials. Most of you know who these people are anyways..... OH and CK. These clans care only about making a mark. Winning in 3 turns, 4 or 5. They never play alone, and always have a teamate (not always from the same clan) who's deck is made to support theirs. I could run down a long list of their actions, but will just instead say, these guys are purposely ruining a fun game.

People wonder where all the players have gone. They most likely got sick of playing against these type of people. MTGO is based on having fun with friends, and meeting new ones. Its not supposed to be all about conquering, and talking trash. I'm now selling my collection. I can no longer play my soldier, elf, bird, etc... decks. Everything now is Land destruction, massive discard, etc... Its just not fun anymore due to the clans above, and others like them.

I am posting this not to whine, but to inform MTGO why they are losing customers. Just send someone into a "casual" game and have them report their experience to you. See if they feel it was a friendly casual experience ?

Another customer lost. $1000 spent on you site over the years by the way, and I'm selling my cards for $100. Wonder why that is? Everyone is selling to get out.
Although this is biased... Perhaps you could read the table descriptions... I know for one OH doesn't hide the fact that we sit together in fact we go OUT OF OUR way to make sure you know your sitting down to a OH game. We invented the whole tagging our tables with our clan colors and have done it for years. its good to see other clans like CK doing the same so the casual players like yourself wont have to sit down to a game with decks built with synergy.

Reading hasn't always been that fundamental to this game but since there's no 3D environment maybe you should do some more reading about the game your joining.
Wow. Talk about whining.
You know you can take measures to dealing with these people.

1. Block them
2. Label your tables
3. Avoid them
4. Build a mirror of their decks and sit against them
5. Join a clan

Coming onto the game's forum and whining about them does not help. Neither does quitting. You let those people win.
Well I'm sure you'll find a buyer.
Good luck in life, home-skillet.
DarkPrincess83 PRE Hostess Extraordinaire "Don't call it a comeback, I been here for years, Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear" - LLCoolJ
I rember about 2 years ago an OH guy sat at every table and LD'd the heck out of me cause he thought it was funny. Instead of blocking I buddied. I then built an all foil LD deck and proceeded to start joining across the table from him. I also built another deck where over half the cards shuffle back into the library if they ever hit dirt. (The Millers Daughter lol) Incarnations, DC, Legacy weapon and a buncha tricks to get em out quick.

I could have told his teams Captians. They may have cared or not but I did at one time know alot of em as I witnessed the birth of OH and CK as well as the multitude of other clans. Cheese whiz is part of the game and these 2 clans alone are heavy hitters in that department. I must say however that with the 1 LD player excepted these clans will respect you if you put "No...", "Casual...", or "Gents Rules" on the comment section of your game tab.

I do agree that the casual environment stepped up a notch with the birth of clans. You may also try Prismatic, Singleton, Rainbow Stairwell style games as its alot harder to build 250 card cheese decks or Singleton 60 card shredders. Not impossible but much more thought and effort at least.

I personally would sell my collection due to V3 before letting some Hardcore Card Players run me off. Use a block list if they stalk you, report em to the mods if they harrass you, avoid clan advertised games, try different formats, make some buds who also prefer a clean slower style game.

Try playing OH 2hg with a 40 card Way Wild 7th ed theme deck ;) I did 2 things happened I eventually afforded better cards and I got to know the weakness those cheese decks have.

I am glad to see clans making a comeback as I know an OH member won't bail on turn 5 when an oblivion stone pops off and if they do their Clannies will block em. Least they used to :D
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Ok,

I love to play 2 Hand Giant games. I've always played games on paper with friends, and it was a free for all. But free for all on MTGO isn't fun because you have players that build decks that win within 5 turns, or they play with a buddy who supports them the whole game. Thus the format of 2 Hand Giant worked well for me. I found people there played just for the fun of it. Until about a year ago.

There are clans that have ruined this experience too. I won't name them (not because I'm afraid to, but I don't know if it violates the user rules by naming them), but will give you their initials. Most of you know who these people are anyways..... OH and CK. These clans care only about making a mark. Winning in 3 turns, 4 or 5. They never play alone, and always have a teamate (not always from the same clan) who's deck is made to support theirs. I could run down a long list of their actions, but will just instead say, these guys are purposely ruining a fun game.

People wonder where all the players have gone. They most likely got sick of playing against these type of people. MTGO is based on having fun with friends, and meeting new ones. Its not supposed to be all about conquering, and talking trash. I'm now selling my collection. I can no longer play my soldier, elf, bird, etc... decks. Everything now is Land destruction, massive discard, etc... Its just not fun anymore due to the clans above, and others like them.

I am posting this not to whine, but to inform MTGO why they are losing customers. Just send someone into a "casual" game and have them report their experience to you. See if they feel it was a friendly casual experience ?

Another customer lost. $1000 spent on you site over the years by the way, and I'm selling my cards for $100. Wonder why that is? Everyone is selling to get out.

A question:

Are you creating your own table with the description "no team decks" and they're sitting with team decks? If so, you have a valid gripe and the Captains of the clans mentioned should be made aware of the activities. Making players angry serves no good purpose and most clan captains will 'explain' that to offending members. I've had the honor of chatting with both of the clans you mentioned, and by and large, they're good people who love Magic. If something is amiss then they can only take steps to fix it if you let them know about it.

If you're not creating your own table with your own descriptions then you can't and shouldn't expect others to know what you're thinking about. It may have worked that way in the past, but the fact of the matter is that online, you HAVE to make your wishes known in advance of the game. Expecting potential opponents to know your wishes without doing so is impossible and will lead you to frustration.

If you're joining other players' games then you are at the mercy of any and all cards that the creating player wants to use.

The best thing I can recommend is creating a clan of like-minded, casual, free for all players and/or buddy list for those you like to play against.

If you still like Magic, find others who like Magic the same way you do and band together with them. It will make your experience that much better in the long run.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
Since everything else has been touched upon already I will merely point out that it is "two headed giant".
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Isn't the whole point of 2HG to build your decks to compliment each other to win the game?
Isn't the whole point of 2HG to build your decks to compliment each other to win the game?

To some.

To others it's all about four random folk trying to bludgeon each other in a dark room using rolls of charmin duct taped together....

to each their own, right?

(hence my comment about finding and banding with those who share the same interests and not expecting others to agree/understand)
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
You can compliment each other whether or not your decks complement each other anyway.
You can compliment each other whether or not your decks complement each other anyway.

That is a good remark! (See, not even a deck needed to make a compliment)
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Unless times have changed, OH doesn't join other peoples tables, they always put thier own games up. So simply just don't join thier games

On a side note- whenever you beat an OH team, don't EVER grant them a rematch! They will complain the entire time about how lucky you were last game (and play super slow as a result of all the typing), and when they lose again.....the cycle repeats :/
There is no tighter shirt!
It's called Two Headed Giant. A Two Handed Giant is just a normal giant, unless their race has grown a third one.

The teamed clan decks are really easy to avoid since they put their name in the game description. If you get stuck in one of them just concede and make your own table.
as I said before, I'm not whining, and anyone who says I am didn't read the whole post.

1) I do typically join other's tables.... not OH and not CK tables. But CK doesn't mark all their tables. I guess I could try making my own tables, and post gents only, but more times than not, someone comes in and purposely plays a non-gents deck just to be a $%^&* . Singleton, and rainbow would work, but again... I have soldier decks that have multiples of the same card.

2) I understand what some of you said about reporting the players to their captains, but how many of you really do this? You take the time to contact their captain, and complain? Its true that OH has been much better in that they set up their own tables and let it be known don't come in unless you have a tourney deck, and a partner to match. I can't say the same for CK.

3)Someone said to ban players. Have you seen how many people play now a days? I will end up playing the same 3 or 4 guys all the time. Finding a good clan is hard. I'm in one now, and no one is ever on. I've tried to leave it, but there is a bug that won't let me do it.

4) My whole point is that their is a place for tourney decks. The section that says casual is supposed to be exactly that. I can appreciate when someone posts that they are playing tourney decks like OH, and CK sometimes. That's fine. But no one who is left on MTGO wants to play gents because they have all been chased off.

I challenge everyone to go and ask to play a gents game table and wait to see how long it takes to fill up. This may be the only way you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Don't just say "yeah right"... try it for real. I dare ya. See if you're willing to wait an hour just to play a game.

There is a reason that there are very few players left on MTGO, and its not just because of V.3 (which I personally love). Prices have crashed as well, why? So many people selling off collections. why? Is it because I whine too much? Or that I actually care?
as I said before, I'm not whining, and anyone who says I am didn't read the whole post.

1) I do typically join other's tables.... not OH and not CK tables. But CK doesn't mark all their tables. I guess I could try making my own tables, and post gents only, but more times than not, someone comes in and purposely plays a non-gents deck just to be a $%^&* . Singleton, and rainbow would work, but again... I have soldier decks that have multiples of the same card.

2) I understand what some of you said about reporting the players to their captains, but how many of you really do this? You take the time to contact their captain, and complain? Its true that OH has been much better in that they set up their own tables and let it be known don't come in unless you have a tourney deck, and a partner to match. I can't say the same for CK.

3)Someone said to ban players. Have you seen how many people play now a days? I will end up playing the same 3 or 4 guys all the time. Finding a good clan is hard. I'm in one now, and no one is ever on. I've tried to leave it, but there is a bug that won't let me do it.

4) My whole point is that their is a place for tourney decks. The section that says casual is supposed to be exactly that. I can appreciate when someone posts that they are playing tourney decks like OH, and CK sometimes. That's fine. But no one who is left on MTGO wants to play gents because they have all been chased off.

I challenge everyone to go and ask to play a gents game table and wait to see how long it takes to fill up. This may be the only way you'll understand what I'm trying to say. Don't just say "yeah right"... try it for real. I dare ya. See if you're willing to wait an hour just to play a game.

There is a reason that there are very few players left on MTGO, and its not just because of V.3 (which I personally love). Prices have crashed as well, why? So many people selling off collections. why? Is it because I whine too much? Or that I actually care?

I've bolded the reason you get shmucks interfering with your tables. The term 'gents only' seems to bring out the nastiest side of many players. I don't personally get it, especially because the nastiest opponents of gents are usually the same who tell people to stop whining about playing against whatever they don't like playing against.

Looking for a 'gents' game will often make you a target of the petty people who think they know what's best for you and your fun. That's very sad. Instead, something along the lines of 'no team decks, very casual play' might suffice. You may still get some LD, or some discard, or some counters, etc... but it should cut down on the hate joiners that you have to deal with.

The recommendation about contacting the captains is only because if their activities irritate you enough to quit, I would assume that they would irritate enough to try to fix the actual issue. Like I said, the captains of those clans love Magic. Pointing out that members are scaring away magic players usually will cause them to help if it's actually a problem with members behaving badly.

And lastly, if your restrictions leave you with only four other players then they are a) working (restrictions will restrict options) and b) your game experience is not shared by the majority in the room. What you choose to do from that point is a personal decision and perhaps quitting is in your best interest.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
That is why I'm quiting, and so many others already have. Have fun with the 10 players left who play regularly.
'gents'... Wow missed that the first time around.

Hey don't get me wrong. I'm fine with ppl playing this so-called 'gents'. Whatever floats your boat, right. But for some reason I always mentally roll my eyes when I see it advertised.

It must be the irony of calling something 'gents' that is not exactly gentle wrt the amount of stuff that it forbids.

In truth, I fall somewhere in the middle. I will avoid both gents and CK/OH games if at all possible. It's almost impossible to have fun in those games. With the adolescent clans either you win and they whine, or you lose and they gloat. With gents I feel like I'm walking on eggs. Who knows what card or play they'll get upset by?

What I mean to say is, in both ends of the spectrum you are very likely to end up not playing but arguing. What's the point. I want to play. And I think I'm very capable of playing a civil game without anyone telling me how to, both in terms of cards and social interactions.
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
As the leader of OH. I listen to people all the time complaining about decks. But decks are not my problem. If you have a problem with a clan mate of mine thats different. I will take the time to pull my clan mates aside and say look this kind of behavior isnt acceptable. But if you come to complain about a deck ill tell you the same thing i tell everyone... build a better deck.

The distinction between this supposed tourney decks and causal decks is ludicrous... Since there is NO MULTIPLAYER TOUNREYS on MTGO you have NO IDEA WHAT the MP tourney environment would entail. (a hand full of the same people week end and week out doesn't equal 100s a week exploring the format)

We are all forced to play in 1 room. Get over it, there's those of us who have for years asked for WoTC to separate the 2 types of players. To say because the only multiplayer room in the game is supposed to be only casual because it is in a casual subgroup is rather dumb. There is 5 different 1v1 rooms. I could totally be behind your argument if it was about one of them but its not.

The game isn't losing as many players as your trying so desperately to convince us that it is. In fact i see more new names in the MP room then i have seen in a long time. I see more janky noob decks now then i have in 2 years. The population is doing exactly the opposite of what your implying.
I don't see why this is a problem unless the OP is trying to be intentionally grouchy. If you want to play (or not play) against certain types of decks, then you should either start a game with an appropriate description or only join games with the desired description. In the absence of any details, you should expect and accept playing against any type of deck and, since this is a team format, you should expect and accept to play against team decks. This is not a deficiency in the format, the organization, or the other players.

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Teams are ruining 2 Headed Giant?

Edit profile would mean email change for sure

 

Bubba its because teams are frowned upon in the room. Its been like this forever. People "expect" to play random decks. Which truly would destroy the format contrary to what the OP is trying to suggest. People wouldn't say in main chat " Don't play with NoeNetGen and XXXX. They are playing with team decks" if this wasn't the case.

Lets not even bring up the fact that in the world of MTG MP is the red headed stepchild of the game. People go there to wind down and play less competitive decks. When the truth is that since it has been online the format has grown leaps and bounds.

The game is also self centric. You cant play team decks or even really understand the format if you cant get past the fact that your deck is only half the equation. Most people sit down and try and win the game on their own and if they cant they get mad and run off.

Team play means you understand there's some give and take...We been able to see our partners hands what now.. a year and how many of us IM our partner and talk about the game???? your lying if you say you do. i been playing to many random games for to long to listen to anything different.

If you are not taking the time to talk toy our partner about you game how can anyone expect to truly play this format. So what if they are playing discard and your playing draw. Simple communication can help your game alot
Bubba its because teams are frowned upon in the room. Its been like this forever. People "expect" to play random decks. Which truly would destroy the format contrary to what the OP is trying to suggest. People wouldn't say in main chat " Don't play with NoeNetGen and XXXX. They are playing with team decks" if this wasn't the case.

I'm trying for a little negative reinforcement here. It is utterly ridiculous for team decks not to be the norm in a team format. MP events aren't going to be viable when the CR MP rules are added unless people actually accept the team portion of a team format.

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If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

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The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
Silence,

First off, thank you for responding. I don't however agree with your arguement that team decks are cool for MP. That's where we differ. I do expect to go into a game and find a random partner, and play a random game. I do not however expect to play teamed decks specifically designed to work together to beat down the other side. That's is why there is a format in 2HG called "teams". If you are a team, announce it. Why hide behind not saying it?

I do also take umbridge with your claim that my decks somehow are not good, and that's why I'm complaining. It's hard to play any deck when facing a counter mass discard team deck pair. I don't expect to win all on my own, that's why I have a partner. Chronus, and Netneo are famous for not announcing they are playing team decks. I could name many more. If you want to play a team deck, there is a selection to do so. So saying you can't expect to go into a two hand giant game and expect random play is BS. Why would they have the "team deck" selection otherwise?

I started playing MTGO when IPA was just coming out. I've been online for a while is my point. I've seen what 2HG used to be, and what it has become. It was the last place to play a game that may last 13 turns or longer. Not anymore. Even I have built decks that can win in as little as 3 turns. But when I play them, its not fun. I'm there to have fun, not just to win. Chronus will play a deck with infinite turns by turn 3. yeah, that's fun. Is this what magic is all about? You will probably say, build one that stops him. I will say, why should I tailor my decks for Chronus?

So yes its about the decks, as well as the players. If your self esteem is so low that you need to win every match, I feel sorry for you. What happened to just playing for fun? This was the spirit behind magic, and what made it popular. Not anymore I guess. Those Janky noob people will be leaving the game after getting crushed time after time.

And even long time vets like me have had it. You can keep the game to yourself. There may be more players, but how many do you think will stick around after getting slammed by a team deck?
Silence,

First off, thank you for responding. I don't however agree with your arguement that team decks are cool for MP. That's where we differ. I do expect to go into a game and find a random partner, and play a random game. I do not however expect to play teamed decks specifically designed to work together to beat down the other side. That's is why there is a format in 2HG called "teams". If you are a team, announce it. Why hide behind not saying it?

So you've been playing MtGO since IPA and are completely unaware that "Teams" is NOT 2-headed Giant? Right.

Sorry pal, but even though a lot of people here don't care for your opponents, you're not helping yourself between these type of posts and "gents".
4. Don't speak dumb, or you'll be struck dumb. Remember, the name of the game is heads I win, tails you lose.
I'm trying for a little negative reinforcement here. It is utterly ridiculous for team decks not to be the norm in a team format. MP events aren't going to be viable when the CR MP rules are added unless people actually accept the team portion of a team format.

Really, why is there a selection for team decks? Why hide behind the non-teamed 2HG format? You say its absolutely rediculous to not expect teamed decks. How long have you been playing? Team decks as Silence himself explained have always been looked down upon in 2HG. Why the sudden change?
Really, why is there a selection for team decks? Why hide behind the non-teamed 2HG format? You say its absolutely rediculous to not expect teamed decks. How long have you been playing? Team decks as Silence himself explained have always been looked down upon in 2HG. Why the sudden change?

It's always been ridiculous, and I started on the original MO beta, four months before launch.

As nate said, "team" multiplayer is a different format entirely. There is only one 2HG selection. Check the FAQ (link in my sig) for more information.

I can't wait to see what people do when real 2HG rules show up and players share the turn. Will people still try to say it isn't a "team format"?

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


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Might as well share the turn, pretty much how it is now.
That is why I'm quiting, and so many others already have. Have fun with the 10 players left who play regularly.

I understand both sides of the debate. It reminds me of debates about the old 1-1-1 Emperor decks built around New Frontiers and Wierd Harvest. As the players who played them kept saying "that's what makes the format fun." Those who disagreed simply left - and the format became pretty seriously inbred.

Just something to think about.

PRJ

I write State of the Program, appearing every Friday on PureMTGO.com.

I have 2 hands, am I a teaming giant?
I have 2 hands, am I a teaming giant?

Not from what I've heard!

HEEYYYOOOOO!



Sorry... As you were.


Oh yeah, the topic at hand

I would really, really like to see this brought into an overall change to MTGO. Where MTGO tracks more information than just sealed/constructed/composite. Actually tracking format would be good.

"But Hammy", I hear you say, "there isn't 2HG ratings to be gotten!" Yep, that's one problem that needs to be addressed. Give the 2HG and other players a competitive outlet and an associated competitive room and hey, two birds, one stone. You get them into their own room and their own way tournaments and you get the 'casual' players a place that they don't have to worry about those players.

Of course, once you start tracking more statistics than just the big two, you open up all sorts of things for Clan tie-ins. Like all the members of the top clan dedicated to 2HG get some special bling for their avvies.

But of course, that would mean clans would have to be able to register their 'focus' if they wanted to. Top clans of their specific focus would get baubles to commemorate their achievements.

But now I'm just gettin' silly.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
My other account has a 2100 MP Rating.

/me wakes up from a 6 year coma.
Not from what I've heard!

HEEYYYOOOOO!



Sorry... As you were.


Oh yeah, the topic at hand

I would really, really like to see this brought into an overall change to MTGO. Where MTGO tracks more information than just sealed/constructed/composite. Actually tracking format would be good.

"But Hammy", I hear you say, "there isn't 2HG ratings to be gotten!" Yep, that's one problem that needs to be addressed. Give the 2HG and other players a competitive outlet and an associated competitive room and hey, two birds, one stone. You get them into their own room and their own way tournaments and you get the 'casual' players a place that they don't have to worry about those players.

Of course, once you start tracking more statistics than just the big two, you open up all sorts of things for Clan tie-ins. Like all the members of the top clan dedicated to 2HG get some special bling for their avvies.

But of course, that would mean clans would have to be able to register their 'focus' if they wanted to. Top clans of their specific focus would get baubles to commemorate their achievements.

But now I'm just gettin' silly.

Who told?!? But really though, it doesn't quite work right because you're really a part of a 4-6 handed giant in a 2HG game. Well, unless, someone at the helm is missing an arm or 2 or 3, but on average you're a part of a 6 handed giant that could go as low as 4.


Back on track though, forget about the clan tie in. That is bling for when everything else is good. I mean v2.5 didn't even have a real tie in for clans, so there is no need to rush it into v3 until we, at least, catch up to v2.5. Although, I would :inlove: to see some sanctioned 2HG, Commander, or even FFA events. It would be the good.
Blame the "Gents" on me.

I was suggesting the OP try joining those games. I personally thought most people respected the fact that 4 people wanted to sit around having a Blue and White Slapfest. My heart will always be pumping Green with a Red mentality and a Black fist.

Magic is for all of us "Teamed" or not. The real problem is lack of respect and failure to communicate. Post your games. Respect the posts.

I usually bring a heavy hand to the table if I can but why not I spent the money on the cards and truly have never stepped out of the unratedcasual environment. (k so there was that one time when we all "beta tested" for a bit and then WOTC bribed us off with a free Kavu avatar) Least in those days us casual peeps got a few handouts. Sorry slipping there gtg. Play nice and show your colors open and proudly.
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Back on track though, forget about the clan tie in. That is bling for when everything else is good. I mean v2.5 didn't even have a real tie in for clans, so there is no need to rush it into v3 until we, at least, catch up to v2.5. Although, I would :inlove: to see some sanctioned 2HG, Commander, or even FFA events. It would be the good.

The problem here is that it is a waste of time. WoTC has clearly demonstrated over my entire time playing MTGO that the MP player isn't worth doing anything for. Look how they throw us in a single room. This entire game is not built on a premise of allowing the decks to meld together. The storyline isn't about team work, its about a singular hero doing what it takes to get the job done.

This game and all things related to it are not about partnering up for the win. This aspect of the game has ALWAYS been left to the dark rooms in the shops and the kitchen tables in our houses. See some of us a few years understood this and we tried to offer something to the players that wasnt present... birth the MP PREs. But even that got slaughtered either by V3 or peoples greed.

WoTC wont make a move for this portion of the community. Sadly and i regret to have to say it , but its time we moved on. Either your a 1v1 player that fills the sanctioned seats, or your just another casual player on the server. This June MTGO will turn 7 years old. In that time there has been a total of ZERO MP events.

Wake up and smell the disdain people. If anyone is ruining this format its WoTC themselves. Not the players. Its not the clans willing to push the format as far as possible. Its not the cards that make certain combos over powerful for MP. Its not the dealers putting players at odds for small pocket change. It is WoTC themselves. They created this sorry excuse for a MP environment. They created all the animosity built in the room. They created the way we play.

You don't like it or like the way your being hamstrung then say something. Don't blame the people who have spent a good portion of their time BEGGING for more. Instead stand back and look at your position your in and really analyze what you see and what you don't see.

It was an absolute fluke that Imperial Mask has the word Teammate on it.
But of course, that would mean clans would have to be able to register their 'focus' if they wanted to. Top clans of their specific focus would get baubles to commemorate their achievements.

But now I'm just gettin' silly.

"Achievements" are a popular, low-cost type of reward. It's definitely not a silly idea.


I don't think clans should even need to register their focus - why couldn't a clan strive to be the best at everything? A man can dream!
First Im sorry for hogging this thread. It was never my intention. However the OP makes a great point. I agree with everything he says, it is going on and it is real. Anyone that has spent time reading the forums knows i feel deeply for the MP game. They have read numerous rants on here about not feeling the love from WoTC. They have read real valid option for growth not only from myself but other well known people on the forums.

So I spent some time thinking about whats missing from all the discussions over the years. What in all these threads has been constant. besides the lovely heated discussions. It is someone form WoTC telling us their stance on the Multiplayer environment. For the longest time every time a thread is brought up it gets all long and people chime in and people all express there feelings whatever they may be about the subject. Not a once has a thread about this subject has there been a real "company" driven answer to why this portion of the game has not changed at all. (/me pumps his fist at the screen YES EDH!)

So Mike can you tell us why the MP game is still in the stone ages? Can you tell us why the biggest kitchen table in the world isn't being utilized more? We just witnessed a decline of half the regular numbers of users in the MP room. I know I studied the numbers... I Racked my brain for over a year trying to understand why only 10% of the room showed up to PREs. Post V2 the room has never been over 150-175 users.

Before you attack my post on this point understand me here. Even tho the numbers declined there is growth happening. I do stand behind my previous post about disagreeing with the op saying the game is dying. because in all reality there is a different type of growth happening. While half the room is just away from the game. The other half of the game is being filled with new players.

Its obvious no one wants to talk about it. But its been 6 years now with no change.

Can anyone tell us why this is?
fell off the front page.

Still waiting for an answer as to why this portion of the game/community is still unchanged after 6 years of telling us to wait.
My 2C's,

Not played m-player much lately but I used to be there quite a bit as part of an old clan the "The Foily Fanatics". I've had my fair run in's with OH. However you need to respect when you sit down at their table and play by their rules. Then jank ain't going to cut it.

They run bleeding edge 2HG decks which I dare say is good for the community because it shows what can be done.

This has been known for years and is hardly anything "new" especially for a player who started @ ipa (no offense intended here).

Jetmox
Classic Quarter


I would really love to hear a response from Wizards as well.


I would really love to hear a response from Wizards as well.

Thank you for stepping up and asking for clarity
Hi guys,

First, thank you to Mr. Silence for PMing me about this thread. I don't have the chance to find and read every thread so if there is something you think I should see make sure to let a VCL know or PM me directly.

Well, I can't give the overall corporate official answer about multi-player but I can share some of what I know.

1st, until relatively recently, when paper MTG finally codified some of the multi-player rules (for 2HG for example) they were never the same between groups. When MtgO was first being built, the multiplayer rules that were created were based on what the few people that Leaping Lizards asked thought and later these were not found to be the best rules.

2nd, MTG is built and designed as 2 -player game. This means that R&D doesn't fully test how the cards work in multi-player games and what affect they would have on a full tournament scene. Yes, multi-player is popular. I used to play free-for-all with 11 buddies on a huge kitchen table back in 1995 but I would not ever try and play that way in a tournament. The game was way too swingy.

3rd, while detailed rules were written up for 2HG and I think for Emperor in the V3 initial design doc, they were not fully coded into V3. Yes, some multiplayer gameplay is possible in the casual environment but some of the questions you bring up, like what is the correct way to form 2-player teams for 2-headed giant, have never been codified for online play. MTGO game play is very different from paper gameplay and all of the issues about how a team would register, how people review decks together, and so on don't exist yet.

I don't have anything against multi-player, nor does anyone else within the company that I know of. It's just that MTG isn't designed for it (as far as balancing goes), its only recently that agreed upon rules have been created, and finally many of the requirements that would be needed to run quality tournaments aren't coded.

While improving multi-player is brought up in team meetings, it falls behind more immediate easier-to-fix or more important improvements like redemption, replays, leagues, trade fixes, clan fixes, new servers, trial server, format fixes, schedule improvements, Magic Online Player Rewards, promo cards, and so on.

So, I don't know that this provides an answer that everyone will like, but it is the current state of things.
So let me get this straight, Multi-player, as a form of play, has to take a back seat to promo cards and "player rewards"? Wow, I knew the powers that be here had there heads buried in dark moist places, but this is just silly. And Mike, how can you tell us there isn't enough info to get tourny quality multi-player games up and running? "Kitchen table" games have been around as long as the paper version of this game has existed, seems there is enough history in it to figure something out. Furthermore, aren't you people the ones who officialy make the rules? Nothing has stopped you (wizos) from making horrid decisions in the past, why balk now? The worst that could happen is the community will tell you "x and x need to be fixed" and on you'de go. Not only would this make the community more appreciative, it would actually make you more money. Also, I see you are saying clans are before this, care to clarify what you have in store for clans? The way I see it, clans and multi-player games kinda go hand in hand. I understand a lot of clans don't have a thing to do with multi, but the clan mentality sure does lend itself to 2hgs and FFAs. Why not make some connection between the two? Why not have clan only multi-player PEs? Kills two birds with one stone in regards to player satisfaction. Also, this would give you another reason to work on the all important promos.

And no, I didn't feel it necessary to paragraph this propperly.