Missing Greyhawk

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Don't know if there is any point to this but I thought I would
just put it out there that I really miss Greyhawk and all the
adventures therein. And I really don't think its every going to
as it was with Greyhawk. But thats just my opinion.
Seeing what's been done in 4th edition and what they did to the realms I'm kind of hoping to /not/ see any 4th edition Greyhawk stuff.

Bleh.
Seeing what's been done in 4th edition and what they did to the realms I'm kind of hoping to /not/ see any 4th edition Greyhawk stuff.

Bleh.

I thought the core material WAS Greyhawk....
4E Core is a generic/unnamed world.

It's refereed to as the "Points of Light" - named on the theory behind 4E campaign design.
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I actually would love to see Greyhawk in 4th edition. I would like to see them compile all of the information that happened during LG and put out the setting sometime after all of the LG stuff happened.

I want to see Dragonlance and Darksun as well. I could live without Eberron. Maybe they will buy the rights to Midnight and release it as well.
They would never do something like that. I don't even think they can with the current mod writer agreement that they had, as those stories belong to the authors.

Plus something idiotic would happen like a spell plague or the like, which really wouldn't make sense when you think about it since there is Greyhawk material from like 900-something.
They would never do something like that. I don't even think they can with the current mod writer agreement that they had, as those stories belong to the authors.

Yeah, I'm not sure how that would work...the adventures themselves reverted to the authors; I'm not sure if the RPGA retained the rights to refer to the events therein.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
Yeah, it's like a catch 22. Since the authors are allowed to republish their works so long as they take out anything relating to the Greyhawk copyrights that Hazbro owns, it would imply that those stories are the properties of those authors.

Hmm...you know, we could probably work up something that would allow those mods to be republished, if we had writers on board. Make up a new world...though I don't know if I really like that idea. Greyhawk is so old and established, you couldn't just poof up something to that scale in a few months time...

Maybe we'll get lucky and D&D will get sold off to some other company willing to negotiate those contracts again with the writers or something.
Maybe we'll get lucky and D&D will get sold off to some other company willing to negotiate those contracts again with the writers or something.

It's a little old-school, but maybe Kenzer could work something out using their HackMaster license?
From what I heard, WotC purchased lasting rights for the Core modules. They might not be a problem.

Getting the rights to regional plotlines could be difficult. I believe that Gleemax originally had a provision where you could post D&D stuff and WotC would then gain sufficient rights that they could publish it (if they so chose). Any author that wrote up a summary could have their story become Canon. Those that didn't give WotC some rights would "never officially have happened".
It's a little old-school, but maybe Kenzer could work something out using their HackMaster license?

Hmmm, well they are actually coming out with a new Hackmaster game this summer apparently, that could work. We'd need to see what the author's think...
I think that a lot of the future of Greyhawk depends on sales of current products and licensed items.

I have not followed 4th Edition because I am very much a Greyhawk fan and mostly like 3.5. (I would have prefered a 4th Edition of errata and clarifications if at all)

I am running a campaign of various Dungeon Magazine campaigns like the Age of Worms. I also have the Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk. I will be busy with that for some time. However, when I am not GM, I play my RPGA character. I miss the option to do that. So, if things don't go well with 4th Edition perhaps there will be some sort of option to do something that will please the 3.5 lovers.

Hold on to hope!
Ummmm..there already is! Behold, Paizo and the Pathfinder RPG!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

Don't forget the Pathfinder Society too!

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety
So, if things don't go well with 4th Edition perhaps there will be some sort of option to do something that will please the 3.5 lovers.

Well, I'd note two things here:

1) The RPGA / LFR staff has indicated that play numbers for LFR are exceeding their expectations. They haven't talked specifics about numbers (as a rule, they don't), but, at this still-early date, it doesn't sound like there's any sense that "things aren't going well with 4th Edition". (Though, there are undoubtedly many gamers who are sticking with 3.5, it may well be that enough have gone to 4E to make WotC happy.)

2) With WotC no longer making any money off of 3.5 products, and the RPGA now focused solely on supporting current WotC product lines, I'd be incredibly surprised if we saw a return to a 3.5 RPGA campaign. However, as Koushiro has alluded to, there are other organizations still supporting 3.5
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
Don't know if there is any point to this but I thought I would just put it out there that I really miss Greyhawk and all the
adventures therein.

If you don't like 4E, and if you like Greyhawk... then play it! The RPGA can't force 4E down your throat.

-Matt
Well, I'd note two things here:

1) The RPGA / LFR staff has indicated that play numbers for LFR are exceeding their expectations. They haven't talked specifics about numbers (as a rule, they don't), but, at this still-early date, it doesn't sound like there's any sense that "things aren't going well with 4th Edition". (Though, there are undoubtedly many gamers who are sticking with 3.5, it may well be that enough have gone to 4E to make WotC happy.)

Unfortunetly, WotC/RPGA numbers can not accuratly be used. When you eliminate Xen'drik Expeditions, Mark of Heros, Living Greyhawk, and Undermountain and only introduce one campaing (LFR), the number of players must be high unless you have a really rotten campaign/product. From what I understand of the Forgotten Realm books, that should bring players into LFR.

I really want WotC to reintruduce a Living Greyhawk campaign, I just don't see it happening. They spent the past several years deleting all Greyhawk referenes from the core books. It's sad but true.

-Swiftbrook
1) The RPGA / LFR staff has indicated that play numbers for LFR are exceeding their expectations.

Yeah they probably haven't seen play numbers spike like this since they changed from charging for the LG mods.

I don't see how you don't expect that though when you let/encourage people to replay mods and don't have a TU system.

Likely the player numbers are about the same currently with new players possibly exceeding those that have quit by a small margin.

-James
Hmmm, well they are actually coming out with a new Hackmaster game this summer apparently, that could work. We'd need to see what the author's think...

Living Kalamar is switching to Hackmaster, if I'm not mistaken.

4E Core is a generic/unnamed world.

It's refereed to as the "Points of Light" - named on the theory behind 4E campaign design.

Would this be a thousand points of light?
I believe that it's going to switch over. I'm actually kind of curious what Hackmaster is going to become, seems like they're going to be a bit, and no offense to them intended, legitimate RPG.
I really want WotC to reintruduce a Living Greyhawk campaign, I just don't see it happening. They spent the past several years deleting all Greyhawk referenes from the core books. It's sad but true.

Actually, I found quite the opposite, that the releases near the "end" of 3.5 had more Greyhawk references than ever. Look at the Fiendish Codices, for example -- most of the background material was established in the realm of Greyhawk before anywhere else.

As far as 4e Greyhawk is concerned, I think you'll find it here and there -- Draconomicon has a list of famous dragons from various settings (Dragonlance, Greyhawk, and FR), and stats for some of the biggest, notably Dragotha...
Yeah, but they'll just gut it like they did everything else to make the whole world bland and boring.

So we need a new game maybe. Anyone actually done any of the other living campaigns?
Yeah, but they'll just gut it like they did everything else to make the whole world bland and boring.

So we need a new game maybe. Anyone actually done any of the other living campaigns?

I am very much enjoying Paizo's Pathfinder Society.
I miss LG and 3.5 more the more I play LFR.
So we need a new game maybe. Anyone actually done any of the other living campaigns?

I've enjoyed Living Arcanis a great deal, though it's wrapping up its first story arc this year (final modules premiere at Origins). Paradigm Concepts are working on their own game system for Arcanis (i.e., no longer 3.5), and will have a second Living Arcanis story arc using the new system, but I don't expect that before sometime next year.

I've also enjoyed Witch Hunter: Dark Providence (PCI's other campaign), though I haven't played much of it, and, from what I've heard, that campaign has lost some steam.

Fellowship of the White Star is a sort-of spin-off from Living Death, set in a gothic-horror version of early 20th-century Earth. I've played some of their modules, and it's not bad at all.

I played the first few Pathfinder Society modules at GenCon last summer. Mostly, I was frustrated by the limitations they've had to work under by staying with the 3.5 core rulebooks in their first year (kind of bites playing a wizard, and not being even able to scribe your own scrolls). I suspect that, when they switch over to Paizo's "revised 3.5" system, there'll be more flexibility.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

I found my Living Greyhawk character today in my 3.5 DMG while cleaning out my bookshelf.  I cried.  I don't like 4e and honestly I'm more than a little bitter at WotC for ending LG. 

Because the 4e cosmology of the planes has changed so much, I would rather see none of the old campaign worlds "converted" and brought forward from 3.5 to 4e. I've never liked Forgotten Realms so I don't much care that FR has been hijacked by 4e already.


Leave Greyhawk out of the 4e updating of worlds, however.

lol I don't even like Wizards websites and forums now that they're in 4e.  I can't find anything on their websites, everything seems disorganized, and this bright white color burns my retinas. 

Just to note that, even though those modules are retired, redistributing them for non-RPGA play is against RPGA rules.  So, asking someone to do so on the official RPGA board isn't a great idea.

"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

Ahhh.  Wasn't aware of that.  I'll delete.


 


 


I found my Living Greyhawk character today in my 3.5 DMG while cleaning out my bookshelf.  I cried.  I don't like 4e and honestly I'm more than a little bitter at WotC for ending LG. 




I miss LG and how it was managed compared to how they manage LFR.  But I am sooooooooooo glad they put to death the aberration that was 3.5.
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