Divine Domains in LFR

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Does anyone know if there are plans to explain which domains fall under which dieties? Or is it going to degenerate into player interpretation and the accompanying flame wars?
Discussion is currently taking place here. There is no current word on official domain lists for LFR as of yet.
Well, until such time as an official annoucement *is* made, the domains will only be available to PCs who worship:

(a) deities that are listed in both Divine Power and the FR deity list (e.g., Moradin, Corellon, Bahamut)

(b) deities listed in the CCG "equivalency chart" (e.g., Raven Queen -> Kelemvor)

If you look in this thread, it sounds like a list of domains for all FR gods was developed, but it sounds like it got cut out of Divine Power. Hopefully, that info will be shared with the players soon.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
Kenobi is right. While the discussionon these boards was being done for purely academic reasons, it is not official. And until something official is done, worshipers of deities not in the DP book or on the equivalencies list are out of luck.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
So what can we do if we fall under this option -

(b) deities listed in the CCG "equivalency chart" (e.g., Raven Queen -> Kelemvor)

and the listed Domains don't match up?

IE can we take one of the Raven Queen's Domains for now, even if we know Kelemvor wont have that Domain?

Then swap that Domain around once the offical word comes down?
Pretty much. although right now, we don't knwo what domains any of the Gods will have. Or even if we will see anything official.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Rumor has it an article may come out to assist in our domain plights
Matt James Freelance Game Designer Loremaster.org

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Rumor has it an article may come out to assist in our domain plights

Looks to be on the Dragon editorial calendar for the end of August.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
I guess having that cleared up for Gencon is out of the question then. I better pack my rogue instead of my cleric.
Why? Your cleric still works the same as it always has up to this point. It's not suddenly unusable because we dont' have the domains for the FR gods yet.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Don't really see it as a "plight" place your bets on straight conversion from the CCG it's just that simple. Look at the list of 4th Ed Gods see who they converted into LFR Gods now assign the domains to the converted Gods and presto those are the domains for the LFR Gods. Call it lazy but that's the most straight forward solution.
Don't really see it as a "plight" place your bets on straight conversion from the CCG it's just that simple.

For the 11 deities listed in the conversion. Doesn't help with the 41 (or 37 if you can't worship primordials in LFR) other eligible player deities not listed in the CCG
For the 11 deities listed in the conversion. Doesn't help with the 41 (or 37 if you can't worship primordials in LFR) other eligible player deities not listed in the CCG

Exarchs and Primordials probably won't get domains, can't worship Evil/Chaotic Evil Gods, or any God from the PHB. I suspect we will get the conversion the way I talked about it they'll take the ten LFR Greater Gods assign them the same domains as their PHB counterparts and shuffle the lesser gods into their respective pecking order within the LFR Cosmology.
No one's denying that Vamroc. There's more than 11 deities even if you get rid of evil deities and Exarchs.

Greater Gods: Chauntea, Sune, Torm.
Gods: Angharradh, Berenor Truesilver, Garl Glittergold, Ilmater, Mielikki, Sheela Peryroyl, Waukeen

(not to mention the Primordials)

None of them have an equivalent. I agree that his Cleric is still playable, but if your deity falls outside the 11 listed then you don't have an equvalency to reference for it.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Exarchs and Primordials probably won't get domains,

That would be a great shame and a cheap way for WotC to save themselves a couples of lines in a table. Most exarchs have well etablished clergy dating back as far as 1e and have been / still are popular player patrons.
can't worship Evil/Chaotic Evil Gods, or any God from the PHB.

52 (11 of which are already covered in the CCG) are just the non-evil FR deities (if you add the evil deities not eligible for player deity there are 86 deities in 4e FR)
place your bets on straight conversion from the CCG it's just that simple. Look at the list of 4th Ed Gods see who they converted into LFR Gods now assign the domains to the converted Gods and presto those are the domains for the LFR Gods. Call it lazy but that's the most straight forward solution.

And I'm almost 100% sure that WON'T be the solution they're using. For starters Eberron gods don't have an official conversion so they'd have to use a conversion that would cause inappropriate domains for the gods.

Second we were assured the FR gods would have their relevant domains in the actual Divine Power book (most likely cut due to space). This would have been intended (at least partly) for non-RPGA gamers who probably don't use the RPGA conversion table.

So its possible this will be a very lazy and straight forward solution as you describe. But I will be very surprised if it is.
Exarchs would fall under the domain of their governing deity, wouldn't they? An Exarch of Tempus could fall under the War domain (for instance) right? Why wouldn't we be able to extrapolate based on the Exarch's background and their governing deity?
Well, ultimately, if we don't get an official listing of a domain for them, then you wouldn't be able to take a domain feat if an Exarch is your deity.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Is retraining Deities allowed? What about for a multiclass Martial character (like a fighter) who doesn't actually have any game mechanics related to his Deity (Clangeddin)? His worship has only been fluff to this point, so it shouldn't matter, right?
Is retraining Deities allowed? What about for a multiclass Martial character (like a fighter) who doesn't actually have any game mechanics related to his Deity (Clangeddin)? His worship has only been fluff to this point, so it shouldn't matter, right?

As of right now there is no penalty for charactors changing deities but he would have to retrain any feat related to his former deity.
Somebody already mentioned that there will be domain list article for FR and Eberon gods in August issue of Dragon. This will become legal at the end of August when the issue is compiled. So let's not panic. We waited almost a year for Divine power. One more month is nothing.
I don't think anyoen is panicking. Although, I hqave heard some rumblings from folks on whether their god may have a domain (Exarchs). Which in some ways I find rather odd. We have survived this long without domains, if they don't give them to exarchs it should be no big deal. None of them are super outstanding... at least noithing close to RRoT or Glittergold's Gambit. ;)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Well in many cases you can just worship the food chain and your ok...so if you worship truesilver then you select that you also worship moradin and your good. Pick a domain that fits moradin (using him as an example, don't know for sure if we know any of his) according to charts and that you think would also fit with truesilver. Mechanically you are following the rules, for role-play your are getting your domain from truesilver. Now in some cases we may see that a true conversion is needed because truesilver should definately have the life domain but im not sure if moradin does (don't have any books with me atm).
Well in many cases you can just worship the food chain and your ok...so if you worship truesilver then you select that you also worship moradin and your good. Pick a domain that fits moradin (using him as an example, don't know for sure if we know any of his) according to charts and that you think would also fit with truesilver. Mechanically you are following the rules, for role-play your are getting your domain from truesilver. Now in some cases we may see that a true conversion is needed because truesilver should definately have the life domain but im not sure if moradin does (don't have any books with me atm).

Unfortunately, this isn't true. If there are no Domains listed for Truesilver, you cannot "just take one." Even if it's one Moradin has (just FYI, we do know which ones he has because they are listed in DP). So no, mechanically you wouldn't be following the rules. The rules for a Domain is that you have to worship a God with that particular domain to take a domain feat. If there are no Domains listed for a deity you can't extrapolate them on your own to take one.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Unfortunately, this isn't true. If there are no Domains listed for Truesilver, you cannot "just take one." Even if it's one Moradin has (just FYI, we do know which ones he has because they are listed in DP). So no, mechanically you wouldn't be following the rules. The rules for a Domain is that you have to worship a God with that particular domain to take a domain feat. If there are no Domains listed for a deity you can't extrapolate them on your own to take one.

We have been told by WotC that certain FR deities correspond to certain core deities for the purposes of taking Channel Divinity feats and powers. I don't see why this wouldn't still be in effect in regards to domains and the new domain channel divinity feats. For instance, Amaunator is equivalent to Pelor, so a Cleric of Amaunator would be able to pick the same domain and divinity feats that a Cleric of Pelor would be able to pick from. Of course, the character builder doesn't reflect this, so I guess they aren't planning on people doing that. But it's really the way it should be until they release a domain list for the FR deities.

As for Eberron deities, well, we've never been given an equivalency list for them as relating to the core deities, so we'll have to wait and see.
Ok, I didn't mention the equivalency chart and I should have. However, for anything that falls outside the equivalency chart, we're out of luck.

I expect most if not all Gods in the equivalency chart will be represented in the article. So the equivalency chart probably won't be of any use to people for domains (being the most up to date rule for deity domains).
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Unfortunately, this isn't true. If there are no Domains listed for Truesilver, you cannot "just take one." Even if it's one Moradin has (just FYI, we do know which ones he has because they are listed in DP). So no, mechanically you wouldn't be following the rules. The rules for a Domain is that you have to worship a God with that particular domain to take a domain feat. If there are no Domains listed for a deity you can't extrapolate them on your own to take one.

You failed to get what I was saying...its simple...worship more than one deity (which is allowed) pick a domain from one of the deities that has a correspondance for your mecanical purposes..but in role play (you know that thing that most forget in lieu of roll play) you describe it as having come from the sub deity/exarch of the deity you mechanically get it from. Its really not that hard, doesn't violate the mechanics, and doesn't hurt game play by doing so.
Y'know, I think this paragraph from p. 8 of the Character Creation Guide is pretty straightforward, personally. The emphases are mine.


Select a deity for your character, if applicable.
Characters that have a divine class or multiclass option
must choose one (and only one) living deity for their
character
. See the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
(“Pantheons of the World”) or Player’s Guide (Deities of
the World chapter) for a list of deities available in the
Realms. If you’ve chosen a deity from the Player’s
Handbook, listed below is an equivalency chart so that you
can convert your character’s choice to the appropriate
campaign-specific deity.
You may need to alter your
character’s alignment slightly to align more properly with
the Realms deity. If you have a Channel Divinity feat from
the Player’s Handbook, it is a valid character option for the
Realms-equivalent deity. The Forgotten Realms Player’s
Guide will have Channel Divinity feats for all the Realms
deities listed on the chart. In addition, the Realmsequivalent
deity serves as a proxy for any other rules
prerequisite
that specifies the Player’s Handbook deity.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post above.
You failed to get what I was saying...its simple...worship more than one deity (which is allowed)

This is where you are incorrect. The LFR rules state that you must choose one deity to worship. You cannot worship more than one deity.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
This is where you are incorrect. The LFR rules state that you must choose one deity to worship. You cannot worship more than one deity.

But this only applies to people playing LFR games. If they are in a homebrew campaign, this limitation doesn't apply to them ....

And since we are in the RPGA forums, it's probably a good bet that they *are* playing LFR ... so, I'll be quiet now.
Good thing you put that last line in there. I was about to smack you around. ;)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
I think what he meant is that you'd worship the main god for everything mechanically and rules-wise. You'd have that god on your character sheet and take feats and powers for that god. But in-character, you worship the exarch or lesser god who is associated with the main god.

There wouldn't be any in game effects from worshiping 2 gods because for all intents and purposes you'd be worshiping the main god. You wouldn't get to take any feats or anything based on the exarch, and it would potentially be confusing unless the exarch has no game options (which is why you'd probably do something like this anyway).

The in-character worship of the exarch would purely be a fluff choice.


I was thinking of doing something like this with my cleric if it's not against the rules. My cleric worships Uthgar (an exarch of Tempus). So far Uthgar has no options whatsoever. I'm fully expecting him to get ignored in the Dragon article. If that happens, and I can't take any domain feats or anything for my character I'm considering converting him to Tempus for all crunch aspects of the character, but continue to worship Uthgar in character. (Unless that's illegal.)
I was thinking of doing something like this with my cleric if it's not against the rules. My cleric worships Uthgar (an exarch of Tempus). So far Uthgar has no options whatsoever. I'm fully expecting him to get ignored in the Dragon article. If that happens, and I can't take any domain feats or anything for my character I'm considering converting him to Tempus for all crunch aspects of the character, but continue to worship Uthgar in character. (Unless that's illegal.)

It is. The CCG is pretty danged clear on this: if you use the Divine power source, you need to pick one deity. Not "one god, or one exarch and his god".
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

The Dragon Magazine article has been released. [link]


Enjoy!

And, it looks like the answer is "if you worship an exarch, no domains for you."  Only the deity-rank gods were given domains in the article, and, as far as I can see, there's no mention at all of exarchs, or what to do about them.

"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"

And, it looks like the answer is "if you worship an exarch, no domains for you."  Only the deity-rank gods were given domains in the article, and, as far as I can see, there's no mention at all of exarchs, or what to do about them.

Doesn't the FRCG already tells what to do about them? If you are a divine worshipper of an exarch you are effectively worshipping that exarch's superior and might as well stick to that superior's domains and divine channeling feats.

Ah excellent stuff, I've been looking forward to this article for a while! Smile


Thanks Logo! 


Daniel.


Doesn't the FRCG already tells what to do about them? If you are a divine worshipper of an exarch you are effectively worshipping that exarch's superior and might as well stick to that superior's domains and divine channeling feats.




I don't recall the FRCG saying anything like that.


I also don't think it is true. If you worshipp an exarch, you worship a lesser power, so should have less options. It's part of the choice. It would be a bit strange if you gained more options when you worship an excrach (such as Sharess) than if you worship a lesser deity (such as Tymora).


I think Exarchs should have one domain, but I can imagine it is too much hassle, so they get none.


Gomez


Doesn't the FRCG already tells what to do about them? If you are a divine worshipper of an exarch you are effectively worshipping that exarch's superior and might as well stick to that superior's domains and divine channeling feats.





Well, the problem is, there isn't actually a rule anywhere that says that if you worship an exarch you use the patron's domains.  So there's no legal standing for an exarch worshipper to have any domains.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf

The Dragon Magazine article has been released. [link]


Unfortunately I don't have a subscription to Dragon Magazine.  Can someone please tell me what the domains are for Ilmater and Waukeen?  Thanks!


 

Lori Anderson

WotC Freelancer, LFR author

@LittleLorika

 

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