Item suggestions for LFR writers

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In recent discussions on these forums, it was pointed out that not everybody is happy with the items found in LFR adventures. This thread lists a number of suggestions for items that people would like to see, or not like to see, in future adventures. Please keep debate not related to items in other threads instead.

The LFR people work hard to provide a fun campaign for all of us, which is greatly appreciated. This thread is not meant to criticize, merely to give some suggestions. What they choose to do with those suggestions is entirely up to them.

Comments welcome, and I intend to keep this updated.


Items requested

Innovative items
The following items have an innovative ability that is rarely seen in play so far, and are a bit expensive to just buy from cash.
  • Boots of Equilibrium
  • Cap of Waterbreathing
  • Eternal Chalk
  • Horn of Summons
  • Wallwalkers


New implements
It is to be expected that people using PHB2 classes or AP builds would appreciate seeing totems, instruments, and tomes as treasure. Furthermore, arcane casters especially are having some problems locating implements they can use, considering that warlocks can't use staffs and neither can orb-wizards.

Custom bundles
Certain adventures contain bundles that let the player choose e.g. "any item from of your level or lower". These are popular with players. A commonly suggested variant is to limit it by item type, e.g. "any neck-slot item from the adventurer's vault up to level 8".

Consumables
It's suggested to have greater variety in the "consumable + gold" slot available in many adventures. In particular, low-level players would like the opportunity to obtain a potion, reagent or whetstone that they aren't yet able to buy because of level restrictions.


Items not requested

Overpowered or controversial items
The following items are considered overpowered by a significant amount of people on these forums, as seen in many debates on the subject. In several cases their power is because of a debatable interpretation of the rules. It is suggested to not place these in adventures for this reason. Of course, players can still buy them from their gold; but it is preferable that players choose between a bought +2 weapon of uber and a found +3 weapon of whatever, than that everybody who can use it simply takes the found +3 weapon of uber. The point here is to encourage character diversity.
  • Bloodclaw weapon (used in most high-damage builds on the optimization boards)
  • Bloodiron weapon (used in recursive critical hit comboes)
  • Cunning weapon (high save penalties)
  • Earthroot staff (high save penalties)
  • Orb of ultimate imposition (high save penalties)
  • Phrenic crown (high save penalties)
  • Radiant weapon (used in multi-attack high damage combos)
  • Reckless weapon (used in most high-damage builds on the optimization boards)
  • Rending weapon (used in recursive critical hit comboes)
  • Rod of corruption (part of a combo that automatically kills all minions in one action)
  • Rod of reaving (part of a combo that automatically kills all minions in one action)
  • Violet solitaire (used in recursive action point comboes)
  • War ring (used in recursive critical hit comboes)


Items seen very often
The following items have shown up in at least three different adventures. For future adventures, it is suggested to not use these again, but instead select something from the Adventurer's Vault that hasn't been used yet. This does not count "vanilla" +X items.
  • Amulet of false life
  • Bag of holding
  • Boots of spider climbing
  • Gauntlets of ogre power
  • Lifedrinker weapon
  • Shield of defiance
  • Staff of storms
  • Vicious weapon

(candidates: Goggles of night, Keoghtom's ointment, Ritual candle, Skeleton key all appear twice)

Too many rituals
Finally, there appears to be quite a bit more rituals available as loot, than characters that actually use rituals. Nearly every adventure has at least one treasure option with rituals, frequently even two; this constitutes about 20% of treasure, but far fewer than 20% of characters use rituals. It is suggested that "caster" characters may be happier with a greater choice in implements, and that future adventures usually contain one ritual bundle and sometimes none (instead of usually two and sometimes one, as they seem to do now).

Note that for a ritual bundle to be a meaningful choice, it should be worth more than the "extra gold" option: if the player has a choice between a 300 gp ritual and 500 gp in cash, then they will take the cash, use that to buy the ritual or a different one, and have 200 gp left over. In this case, the ritual bundle might as well not be there. This is still the case if it was a 600 gp ritual: getting a small discount on an item is not a very exciting bundle.
On the rituals question. On the whle, the ritual choices tend to be rather silly. The market price of the rituals is often the same or less than the extra gold option. In any module where the rituals are not restricted to high-level rewards it is always cheaper to take more gold, buy the ritual and have money left over.

If the RPGA wants to give out rituals, make it an exciting find. In a 4-7 adventure perhaps 3000-4000 GP worth of rituals that do take up a found item slot. It would be much better for all concerned than handing out the meaningless single rituals every time.
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Sorry, Kurald, but this comes off, to me, as you trying to push your worldview onto LFR. The items are core and meant to be used. They don't have to be broken, and many of the items you listed have a higher item level within their 'plus' bracket to balance what they provide.

I disagree with a good many of the choices on your 'broken' list.

I also disagree on the idea that PCs will choose these 'innovative' items. I have the feeling that if they were in a bundle I would see very few PCs choose them.

The rules should be open. While the campaign should curtail the appearance of some of the stronger items, it should not have a policy of banning them nor of forcing authors to choose or not choose certain items.

If you ask 10 DMs which items are broken, you will get some common choices, but you will also get tremendous variability. Similarly, smart PCs can make a good number of items broken in clever ways. This is clearly part of the game. From Skills & Powers on, finding a clever combination has been a big part of D&D.

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I disagree with a good many of the choices on your 'broken' list.

I'll vote on the side of "agree with the broken list". I'm not saying they should be restricted, but there's clearly something wrong with many of these.

From Skills & Powers on, finding a cheesy combination has been a big part of D&D.

Fixed that typo for you.
One of the positive effects of the optimization going on is that it helps prevent grind. So I don't mind some of the large static modifiers equipment...
  • Radiant Weapon
  • Iron Armbands of Power
  • Staff of Ruin


As all of these give item bonuses up to 2*Tier, they all just help monsters die a bit faster. Bloodclaw and Reckless give unnamed or power bonuses, and exceed 2*Tier, so they definitely should be avoided.

I also agree with avoiding the crit-recursion items, but not because they are overpowered. Just because dealing with all those extra attacks takes is too fiddly and takes too long. You'll want to add War Rings to the Crit-Recursion items section, as they tend to show up a lot with Bloodiron. (Without them, bloodiron much less impressive)

I agree with everything else on the "not requested" list, and I'd add Rod of Reaving (the other part of the minion killing combo) to it.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I agree with the OP. I hate the fact that Bloodclaw +3 is available in a mod. It means that every melee character ever will be wielding one. Because Bloodclaw is so overwhelmingly powerful it makes your choice of melee weapon almost a non-choice.
Regarding rituals, the Writing Directors are allowed to put multiple rituals into one "bundle" so long as the market price does not exceed 2x the added gold. (Because of the potential to sell rituals for 50% market value.) That makes it a good pick for a ritual caster, when they don't want to pick a magic item. Since it does not count as a found magic item, they can pick rituals for free (or for the opportunity cost of passing on the gp). No, every adventure does not have to have a ritual(s) offered.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
I really like the rewards that are variable, such as "choose a lvl 10 or lower weapon from sources x, y, and z."

That way you should see more variety in what pcs have. I get slightly annoyed that the majority of PCs will have +2 vicious weapons, +2 dwarven armor, and the like. Variable rewards will make gear choice a bit more interesting.

Alternatively, you should expect PCs to want items like Iron Armbands of Power and the like. I don't think it's fair to yell at mod writers for putting them in. If you're irritated with their existence, be angry at the creators of Adventurer's Vault. Otherwise, isn't it good that some adventures are dropping items that people actually want?

Flipside: I do agree that a lot of those items listed are overpowered. I think if people want to regulate the overpowered items in the campaign, the only reasonable way to do it would be to ban specific items from the game. I doubt WotC wants to do that though.

Also, some item rewards are just pointless though. 4th E is printing a lot of options (magic items, feats, powers, etc.) but a lot of them are just bad.
Alternatively, you should expect PCs to want items like Iron Armbands of Power and the like. I don't think it's fair to yell at mod writers for putting them in. If you're irritated with their existence, be angry at the creators of Adventurer's Vault. Otherwise, isn't it good that some adventures are dropping items that people actually want?

If the item is so good that people will go out and spend money on it anyway, it probably doesn't need to be a found item. There are a lot of very interesting items that as a +X+1 version, it would be more interesting than the +X version of the overpowered ones.
I agree with the OP. I hate the fact that Bloodclaw +3 is available in a mod. It means that every melee character ever will be wielding one. Because Bloodclaw is so overwhelmingly powerful it makes your choice of melee weapon almost a non-choice.

Not it doesn't. Let's stop with the hyperbole. Not every melee character ever will play the adventure, and not every melee character ever that plays the adventure will take the weapon.
I prefer it if people do not make the decisions for my characters, at least.

Gomez
The market price of the rituals is often the same or less than the extra gold option.

That is a very good point.

One of the positive effects of the optimization going on is that it helps prevent grind. So I don't mind some of the large static modifiers equipment...

I don't mind them, really, but I would prefer if not every single character used them. By handing them out as loot, taking them becomes a no-brainer for all characters that can use it; by letting people buy them, people have more of a choice and this encourages diversity.

At least in my area, a couple months ago, practically everybody was using vet armor. Now, practically every melee character is using bloodclaw (and those that haven't played that adventure yet have vicious). This means that 95% of the nifty weapons in the adventurer's vault goes unused.

You'll want to add War Rings to the Crit-Recursion items section, as they tend to show up a lot with Bloodiron. ... I'd add Rod of Reaving (the other part of the minion killing combo) to it.

Added both, thanks.

Since it does not count as a found magic item, they can pick rituals for free (or for the opportunity cost of passing on the gp).

I think you're overestimating how many casters actually want to collect rituals. Of the approx. 50 players in my area, all of them either don't use rituals period, or have a small amount of rituals they like (which they'll buy for themselves, rather than take as a bundle) and aren't interested in the rest. Players around here tend to prefer spending their gold on permanent items, rather than on one-shot ritual usage.

I don't think it's fair to yell at mod writers for putting them in.

I don't see anybody yelling at mod writers, or indeed being angry period.

I think if people want to regulate the overpowered items in the campaign, the only reasonable way to do it would be to ban specific items from the game. I doubt WotC wants to do that though.

I doubt WOTC is going to do that, either (although they did eventually fix the veteran's armor); but the point is that giving out overpowered items as bundles is making the rest of the bundles meaningless.
Regarding rituals, the Writing Directors are allowed to put multiple rituals into one "bundle" so long as the market price does not exceed 2x the added gold. (Because of the potential to sell rituals for 50% market value.) That makes it a good pick for a ritual caster, when they don't want to pick a magic item. Since it does not count as a found magic item, they can pick rituals for free (or for the opportunity cost of passing on the gp). No, every adventure does not have to have a ritual(s) offered.

Keith

The trouble with rituals is that no-one ever, ever uses them. No-one I know who has a ritual caster character has ever taken a ritual book and actually cast the rituals in a mod. This is a different debate (maybe for a new thread), but basically they're useless treasure.

In 7-10s I've started to see some more interesting items. I haven't actually taken any yet, though, mainly because I'm getting very fussy as to my treasure and am saving up to buy stuff...

I agree with most of the broken list, apart from the recursive crit abusers. Such builds are very unlikely to show up in LFR, since they're mostly theoretical optimisation builds that are presented at level 24+ (and who wants to play through heroic tier with an avenger with 14 wisdom? Not me). The crit problems don't really kick in until Epic, by which time, hopefully, there will be some errata on the more abusive problems.

(That said, I do wonder in LFR will make it to epic, or if it will be worth playing if it does. There are already far too many ways to break the game in half at high level. Heck, the Demigod level 30 power has about as many ways to break it as there are encounter utility powers).

I'd like to see more variation in implements. The trouble is (as has been discussed before), that 'lightning weapon +1' can be taken and used by any weapon user, but 'vicious rod +1' can only be used by a warlock (or invoker, I suppose). Perhaps there could be multiple choices for implements

E.g. as a bundle item: Any implement usable by a warlock, wizard or invoker of level 8 or lower.
I agree with most of the broken list, apart from the recursive crit abusers. Such builds are very unlikely to show up in LFR, since they're mostly theoretical optimisation builds that are presented at level 24+

They start to work from level 11, actually (since they require a few paragon feats).

Use a fighter with Dual Strike and Rain of Blows, multiclass to avenger, then at level 11 you can take two "extra attacks on a crit" feats, and crit-boosting weapons. It gets worse once hybrid classing becomes legal, because then you can throw in rogue for the Daggermaster PP. It may not be an infinite loop yet, but it does do ludicrous amounts of damage (which repeats next turn thanks to bloodiron).
The trouble with rituals is that no-one ever, ever uses them.

And again, this is not true. I have used them (to good effect), and seen them use, and I have several adventures edited in which rituals are explicitly included as an option.

Gomez
I really like the rewards that are variable, such as "choose a lvl 10 or lower weapon from sources x, y, and z."

This.
And again, this is not true. I have used them (to good effect), and seen them use, and I have several adventures edited in which rituals are explicitly included as an option.

Gomez

Clearly I should have added 'in my experience'.

Even if they can be used, I have yet to come across a problem which a ritual could solve that either a) could not be solved without stumping up the cash for the ritual or b) for which the ritual scroll was not provided within the mod.
What I'd like to see is having a mod where the player has access to some of the consumables in the back of the AV book.

Examples: Potions & SharpingStones back there that are one use only.


Only problem with this would be how it would be handled as treasure.

Maybe something like a market where the players can buy one or two items and it get's subtracted from their gold total.


PS. My 6th level dwarf fighter would really love to find a potion of regen. ;)
Just brainstorming here so, please, PEACH. . .

Perhaps there could be a master list of LFR legal treasure? The DM would roll dice at the table to select which 5 (arbitrary#) magic items appear in the available treasure bundles from which the players can select an item, or the gold or the gold+potion, etc.

For example, for a level 1-4 LFR module run at "High" difficulty the DM rolls on the level 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 magic item table to determine which items are available. At "Low" difficulty, he would roll for a level 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 magic item.

There could be 20 items per level (so level + a d20 determines the specific item) and the master list is a separate document that can be used instead of the included treasure bundles.

This way, items would be distributed more randomly and people would not play a specific module just because they knew a specific item was included in the treasure bundles; all modules near that level range would have the same chance for a specific item.
Clearly I should have added 'in my experience'.

Even if they can be used, I have yet to come across a problem which a ritual could solve that either a) could not be solved without stumping up the cash for the ritual or b) for which the ritual scroll was not provided within the mod.

Rituals are expensive in heroic, but cheap in paragon. When you're earning 50000 gold in a mod, spending 1000 on a ritual won't seem like such a big deal. When you're earning 500000, spending 10000 won't seem like a big deal either.

Which is to say, there'll be a point, just like 3.5, where it makes a lot of sense to use certain consumables, simply because they're so effective compared to the cost.

I agree with most of the broken list, apart from the recursive crit abusers. Such builds are very unlikely to show up in LFR, since they're mostly theoretical optimisation builds that are presented at level 24+ (and who wants to play through heroic tier with an avenger with 14 wisdom? Not me). The crit problems don't really kick in until Epic, by which time, hopefully, there will be some errata on the more abusive problems.

Actually, the crit problems crop up as early as 11th. Avenger, both the class and the multiclass, in combo with Daggermaster or Student of Caiphon can turn certain things ridiculous. And if you can pull off a way of getting multiple attacks on top of that, it all goes out the window.

Relevant Links:
Deva Avenger/Warlock/Student of Caiphon

Half-Elf Avenger/Rogue/Daggermaster - note while the original build advances Str, that isn't actually necessary - you can start with a 14 Dex/16 Wis and advance both of them without much problem.

Half-Elf Valor Bard/Barbarian/Avenger/Warlock/Student of Caiphon. Get a Radiant Fullblade, take Novice Power for Storm of Blades - you should have a 22 Con/22 Cha at 14th, take Combat Virtuoso. Click in Oath of Enmity, then do up to 6 attacks. The normal limit on Storm of Blades is the big miss chance which then ends the sequence. With an Action Point, Action Surge, and Veteran's Armor, you should easily hit on a 6 or so most of the time - which means roughly a 69% chance of hitting with all 6 attacks, each one with a 28% chance of a crit.

There are a number of other options, but those are some examples of what can happen.
I remember one adventure in which the party wizard went 'Ooh, Tenser's Floating Disc would totally solve this, I start casting it' and before the 10 minute cast time had elapsed the problem had already been solved in other ways.

But, it's true that low level rituals will become pretty normal at paragon+.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
What I'd like to see is having a mod where the player has access to some of the consumables in the back of the AV book.




Only problem with this would be how it would be handled as treasure.

Show
You might want to play WATE1-3 and/or WATE1-4. You would encounter some examples of your request.



Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
And again, this is not true. I have used them (to good effect), and seen them use, and I have several adventures edited in which rituals are explicitly included as an option.

The point isn't whether "no people at all" use rituals, because that is clearly hyperbole. The point is that at present, about 20% of all treasure bundles are ritual books or ritual scrolls, and that this is disproportionally many compared to how few characters are interested in those rituals (based on the experience of several people in this thread).

The usefulness (or lack thereof) of rituals is not an issue with LFR, but with 4E rules in general, and probably better discussed in on this board. However, I note that on the first five pages of that forum, two out of 125 threads are about rituals; that is also indicative of how many people really use them.

So perhaps it would be nice if there could be more different implements as bundles (in particular, tomes, totems, and instruments) and less rituals.

What I'd like to see is having a mod where the player has access to some of the consumables in the back of the AV book.

Most of those are cheap so you can buy them whenever you like.

(in fact, once you reach high heroics, it becomes practical to use a Whetstone of Frost every adventure, and a Potion of Clarity every big fight, at neglegible cost)

Maybe something like a market where the players can buy one or two items and it get's subtracted from their gold total.

You are supposed to be able to do that between any two adventures, and also at the beginning of most of them. For instance? BALD1-1 starts in a huge city. Surely they sell potions there.
Actually, the crit problems crop up as early as 11th. Avenger, both the class and the multiclass, in combo with Daggermaster or Student of Caiphon can turn certain things ridiculous. And if you can pull off a way of getting multiple attacks on top of that, it all goes out the window.


I stand corrected.

Time to take a trip to the errata boards.
You are supposed to be able to do that between any two adventures, and also at the beginning of most of them. For instance? BALD1-1 starts in a huge city. Surely they sell potions there.

I assume the problem is the item level. In any event, there are adventures out there were the standard potion of healing is replaced with other consumables.
I assume the problem is the item level.

That's the problem right there.
Which is a core issue, not LFR. And, we are told time and time again the campaign should run core and not impose a separate concept of balance.

Thus, the rules for the campaign should work accordingly. No banned lists, no suggestions for authors, etc.

(Oh, and there are several mods with consumable options)

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Thus, the rules for the campaign should work accordingly. No banned lists, no suggestions for authors, etc.

Thank you for completely missing the point :D

Nobody is suggesting "banned lists". On the other hand, the core rules explicitly state that the players should suggest which items they want to obtain as treasure in the campaign.
True, but the Core rules also assume a DM who knows his players, and can tailor his adventures to them. That is not assured in the RPGA (at least not in convention play).
I know enough DMs that can tailor to my character's wishes, and I can tailor to a fair number of players, but there are simply too many variables (new playes, players at Cons, new DMs, DMs at cons, bright new character concepts, nature of the adventure, etc) that makes this work well in the LFR campaign.
In addition, some items are simply specific for the adventure, so they can't be easily exchanged. Plus, I feel there should be *some* randomness in treasure found.
Addinf more generic item bundles (in addition to specific ones) are, I think, the best solution, though such choices should fit in the adventure. I.e,. I would advise that 'any item of level x or lower' be a reward given by a contractor, rather than treasure found in a dungeon. 'Any type of weapon' or 'any type of implement' is easier to place, but even then you won't easily, say, find totems in a wizard's tower, wands in a temple, or metal armor in a druid grove.
So if an adventure can give a means to provide choice (and we ARE working on that), that would, imo, be best.

Gomez
The trouble with rituals is that no-one ever, ever uses them. No-one I know who has a ritual caster character has ever taken a ritual book and actually cast the rituals in a mod. This is a different debate (maybe for a new thread), but basically they're useless treasure.

Here's my record of what my 10th level fighter (multi mage) has taken:

  • +2 Amulet
  • Lightning Battleaxe
  • Ritual book (endure elements)
  • Vicious Battleaxe +2
  • Gauntlets of the Ram
  • Dwarven armor +2
  • Ritual book of Knock
  • Ritual book of Deathly Shroud
  • Magic wand +3
  • Goggles of Night
  • Amulet of Physical Resolve +3
  • Ritual book with 4 items
  • Ritual Candle


I've purchased a fair number of other items -- a +1 scorching burst wand, several extra rituals (dark light, transfer enchantment, several more) inbetween. I've felt the available possibilities pretty reasonable in terms of variety, fun and utility.

If you don't use rituals, then you can ignore the description in the bundle -- the same way non-warlocks ignore all rods, for example. Not much of a loss to the player.

Rituals are actually and excellent treasure item. They don't cost a slot, and if you end up not using it and selling it, you generally end up very close to the "more gold" option, so it is a pretty safe bet. They are also fast to evaluate as to whether you want it so it doesn't slow the table down, and finally, they are fun and (so far) not abusive.
If you don't use rituals, then you can ignore the description in the bundle -- the same way non-warlocks ignore all rods, for example. Not much of a loss to the player.

I'm afraid you're missing the point. There are (far) more ritual bundles than there are rod bundles - and yet there are (far) fewer characters who regularly use rituals, than there are warlocks.
I seriously doubt that. A third of the allowed classes can use rituals as a class feature.

Or are you suggesting there are THAT many warlocks? Cos I have a hard time finding more than a couple actively played at an entire convention.

In any case, your suggestions have a problem. That problem is that you assume people think the same way you do, and like and dislike the same things.

The way you have your list presented is as if you speak for the LFR community at large. You do not.

You might not have intended for it to come off in that way, but that is how many folks seem to read it.


-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
The problem is when rituals sometimes "use up" item slots in an adventure rather than being in addition to the other items. This means there are fewer items available over all, which is not very much fun.

For example, in
Show
IMPI 1-2
there is a magic weapon, a magic rod, an arm-slot item... and a ritual book and a ritual scroll. So out of the five possible items, two are "used up" on rituals.

This is in contrast to many other adventures which have five or six actual *items* to select from.
Thank you for completely missing the point :D

Nobody is suggesting "banned lists". On the other hand, the core rules explicitly state that the players should suggest which items they want to obtain as treasure in the campaign.

Ok, exactly what are you saying to LFR authors?

If you are suggesting that they listen to the community, then great, but this thread is unlikely to speak for the community. Look at most threads and compare the number of posts vs. the number of times read. Lots of people won't even see a thread, let alone take the time to comment. You will see the same posters over and over again... those of us who care enough (or are strange/committed enough) to comment. These boards don't even do a good job of capturing 'the community'. At best, they likely show the opinions of the most experienced and driven of the players and GMs who have the time to post.

So, I think the thread fails at the specific level of qualifying an item for 'the list'. (Example: I can start up a vigorous multi-page discussion about the two warlock rods you listed, but is that really going to do anything? And if I don't, will you conclude everyone agrees with you? Would anything I say make you take the rods off of your list? What is truth? Is that air you are breathing? What is the sound...)

If what you are saying is that the point is a broad level notice to authors to think through what items they place in mods... I think you will find authors do that. Every author is different, but by and large they try to find things that fit the mod and that they think people will like. They try to place items that are interesting as well, but not ones that are unlikely to be of use to anyone. And, they try to avoid broken items... while doing their best to select what looks good from the newest books out there. And, surprise, most authors are likely NOT on the Gleemax boards, not reading the latest optimization boards, and not making a mental note of what any particular person or even the Gleemax community (or LFR sub-community) thinks is broken.

I say it with great respect, but I say it nonetheless, I don't think the OP is a good idea. It is an opinionated worldview that is trying to be imposed on people.

In contrast, I found your post on the summary of things needed for the next CCG to be really useful and pretty open to various points of view.

(Apologies for this coming off in any inflammatory way - not my intent!)

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The usefulness (or lack thereof) of rituals is not an issue with LFR, but with 4E rules in general, and probably better discussed in on this board.

Actually I disagree here. It's a LFR problem because in home games the DM can simply increase the next treasure to compensate the party for the money lost for the ritual. In LFR I have yet to encounter a situation where casting the ritual gives big enough an advantage over non-ritual-caster-parties that it's worth sacrificing the treasure you pay for the ritual. I have used rituals in the past, they have got the job done, but every time i knew that there was a way to get the same result without losing XX gp. I paid the money for RP reasons, but I would love to eventually also encounter a real reason to use one in LFR.
On the other hand, the core rules explicitly state that the players should suggest which items they want to obtain as treasure in the campaign.

But you're not just doing that, you're suggesting which items other players should not be allowed to obtain.
I seriously doubt that. A third of the allowed classes can use rituals as a class feature.

It matches up with my experience. I've DMd around 10 LFR slots. I've seen 1 ritual cast (Floating disk, from a scroll provided by the patron), but I've had 4 warlocks.

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It matches up with my experience. I've DMd around 10 LFR slots. I've seen 1 ritual cast (Floating disk, from a scroll provided by the patron), but I've had 4 warlocks.

It matches my experience too. I've played quite a few LFR slots--enough to have a character at level 10, two characters at level 6, a character at level 5, and a couple characters at level 3. In all that time, I've seen exactly two ritual cast--one was in Cor 1-1 where it is a plot-requirement and you are given a ritual scroll to ensure that you can do it. (At my table, we cast it from a ritual book and saved the ritual scroll to sell later, figuring we'd get more money out of it that way). The other ritual was an object reading in a Cor 1-8. My 10th level character has been a ritual caster all ten levels. Number of rituals cast: that one ritual in Cor 1-1.

I probably would have used a remove disease ritual in Wat 1-3 if I had known the ritual at the time. But that's it. (Well, there was also the transfer enchantment ritual I used to transfer the +1 enhancement from my sword to a javalin when my cleric picked up his standard +2 vicious weapon, but that doesn't really count since it was outside the ordinary mod and is really just treasure management rather than anything effecting the mod).

I've seen quite a few warlocks in that time and played enough mods with my warlock to hit level 6.

There are a lot of problems with rituals but the main ones are as follows:

1. They generally cost too much money to be used without a good reason and LFR mods are written to be able to be accomplished without using rituals. So if you use them, you are generally throwing money away.

2. Most of the rituals in the PHB aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Apparently the 4e designers had problems with PC out of combat abilities ruining their precious plot-lines in previous games so they went out of their way to make sure that players don't have meaningful out of combat magic in 4e. Seriously. You can spend a ton of gold and a half hour chanting to see an area within 100 feet and where you had line of effect to for as many as six rounds? Or, if you have half a brain, you can just look with your eyes and skip learning the ritual, spending the gold, and a half hour of chanting and watch for as long as you want.

Combine 1 and 2 and using rituals=throwing money away for no real benefit.
As a player of an 11th level Ritual Caster who has playtested paragon tier adventures, I would like to assert that anyone who has the Ritual Casting feat as a bonus feat and isn't using rituals or taking them as a bundle option once in a while is probably either Doing It Wrong (TM) or has a DM who is stuck in the "not listed in the mod means you can't do it" mindset. Bypassing Endurance checks for cold or hot weather in a skill challenge with Endure Elements, not worrying about keeping opponents alive in a fight because they can't lie to you with Speak With Dead, getting to metagame hp with Status in a Core Special... All highly useful uses for rituals that require (a) the ritual caster to pay attention to or be aware of his options at all times and (b) a DM who recognizes that the adventure only goes as written until the PCs show up. (Incidentally, a DM who doesn't recognize this should probably think about not DMing anything above, say, 11th level, because they're going to make games go *really* long if they start questioning some of the crazy paragon features/powers out there, not to mention epic destiny features...)
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As a player of an 11th level Ritual Caster who has playtested paragon tier adventures, I would like to assert that anyone who has the Ritual Casting feat as a bonus feat and isn't using rituals or taking them as a bundle option once in a while is probably either Doing It Wrong (TM) or has a DM who is stuck in the "not listed in the mod means you can't do it" mindset.

Right, there were 8th+ level characters carrying around Potions of Enlarge Person that they paid 250 gp for in LG.

There's a certain point where casting rituals just make sense simply because they're so incredibly cheap to do. Yeah, you might not have 1.1M at some point, but only 1.09M at that level. It is a rounding error by then...
As a player of an 11th level Ritual Caster who has playtested paragon tier adventures, I would like to assert that anyone who has the Ritual Casting feat as a bonus feat and isn't using rituals or taking them as a bundle option once in a while is probably either Doing It Wrong (TM) or has a DM who is stuck in the "not listed in the mod means you can't do it" mindset. Bypassing Endurance checks for cold or hot weather in a skill challenge with Endure Elements, not worrying about keeping opponents alive in a fight because they can't lie to you with Speak With Dead, getting to metagame hp with Status in a Core Special... All highly useful uses for rituals that require (a) the ritual caster to pay attention to or be aware of his options at all times and (b) a DM who recognizes that the adventure only goes as written until the PCs show up.

IMO the main drawback is not that casting the rituals won't accomplish something, but the main drawback is that there is always a second option to accomplish the same for free.

You could caste Endure Elements to auto-pass the endurance check. Or you could just roll the check and even if you fail, the surge is only gone until the next extended rest (and until then it only means you end your day with 6 unspend surges instead of 5 unspend surges). However the 20gp for casting the ritual are lost forever.

So to be usefull rituals don't merely need to get the same result that you could get by just taking the other option, they need to get a real advantage that is unattainable through the free of cost alternatives (the margin of this advantage should be equal to the cost you're paying for the ritual but not paying for the other route)
There's a certain point where casting rituals just make sense simply because they're so incredibly cheap to do. Yeah, you might not have 1.1M at some point, but only 1.09M at that level. It is a rounding error by then...

And I am really looking forward to that point. Currently it's:

"Well, I suppose I could cast Deadly Shroud on you so you could just walk openly past these undead. On the other hand that's 140gp, so why don't you just make a stealth check and if you fail and we have to fight them we'll just do that."
Rituals now are like what scrolls were back in 3.5. You only use them when the cost is trivial, or if you can't overcome an obstacle any other way.

But the changes in 4e means that there are now multiple ways to solve a problem and skills have been beefed up so the second conditional above hardly ever occurs. The first conditional is only a matter of leveling up.

I do have to agree with a previous poster though, that by the time Paragon level rolls around, most people will find themselves using rituals more.

Mod authors in particular need to be aware of the possibility since it can change the entire dynamics of a scenario (flying phantom steeds, teleport circle, etc).
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I seriously doubt that. A third of the allowed classes can use rituals as a class feature.

You are misreading what I write. I am explicitly talking about "characters who regularly use rituals", not characters who can use them. Most characters who can rituals, don't. There are some obvious reasons for that which really aren't the issue here. The issue is that rituals show up as bundles in greater quantities than pretty much anything else, while being rarely selected. If an option is impopular, it follows that it would be nice to have it show up less often.

The way you have your list presented is as if you speak for the LFR community at large. You do not.

You are (again) misreading what I write. I nowhere claim to speak for the community.

You might not have intended for it to come off in that way, but that is how many folks seem to read it.

Ironically, this statement sounds as if you speak for "many folks" in the LFR community at large. Pot, meet kettle.

If you are suggesting that they listen to the community, then great, but this thread is unlikely to speak for the community.

A thread can't speak for the entire community, but a thread can compile common opinions on a forum. Note how several people express agreement on the first page. Note also how some of the disagreement hasn't read the post carefully enough, and is arguing against "banned lists" which aren't even being discussed here.

That you can "start up a vigorous multi-page discussion about the two warlock rods [i] listed" is precisely the point. Certain items are heavily controversial, as witnessed by the huge threads on these forums. Which side is "right" is irrelevant; the point is that having such debates at a game table is undesirable. Of course banning the items is out of the question - but by adding them as bundles, they become more common, and thus we get more fruitless debates on game tables. Should adventure writers make items more common that are likely to cause heavy debate?

And, they try to avoid broken items...

Yes. So if the adventure authors try to avoid broken items (as you suggest they do) then we can help them by making a comprehensive list of which items are considered broken by many people on the Gleemax boards. This is useful because, as you say, "most authors are likely NOT on the Gleemax boards, not reading the latest optimization boards". The point is not whether you or I personally consider these items overpowered; the point is that many people do consider that, on these boards here.

So I would say you've answered your own question for you.

Aside from that, I haven't heard any disagreement yet that it is preferable to have five different items in five adventures, to having the same item show up five times. That is why the OP contains a list of items that already show up often, so could we please not have them repeat again? Does anyone disagree that this is (potentially) useful?

(Apologies for this coming off in any inflammatory way - not my intent!)

No offense taken.

In LFR I have yet to encounter a situation where casting the ritual gives big enough an advantage over non-ritual-caster-parties that it's worth sacrificing the treasure you pay for the ritual. I have used rituals in the past, they have got the job done, but every time i knew that there was a way to get the same result without losing XX gp.

Yes, that is a very good point. Rituals are far too expensive as written, and certain home campaign DMs compensate for that by making them free (by adding more treasure or residuum to compensate), and LFR DMs can't do that.

But you're not just doing that, you're suggesting which items other players should not be allowed to obtain.

Did you miss the point where I suggested that the players buy them with gold? This is not a banned list, nor a suggestion for one. It would help if you comment on what the first post says, not on what you feel it might imply.

not worrying about keeping opponents alive in a fight because they can't lie to you with Speak With Dead,

Because of the way the rules work, you never have to worry about keeping opponents alive in a fight. You can always say you were doing non-lethal damage if it becomes relevant.

getting to metagame hp with Status in a Core Special...

(1) metagaming HP doesn't really benefit you, and (2) people who really want to metagame HP will do so even without the ritual.

All highly useful uses for rituals

No. Of the three examples you cite, two are irrelevant, and the third (endurance) is probably not worth the money. Essentially, you're using rituals for fluff. There is nothing wrong with that, but the point remains that, given how few people in RPGA use rituals, they are way overrepresented as treasure bundles.