What to do if your character's GP/XP is significantly misreported?

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What should you do if your character's GP and XP is significantly misreported?

I recently played in LURU 1-1 (high tier) with one of my characters, and he gained 175 GP and 560 XP, which took him to 3rd level. However, it was reported as 560 GP and (I'm guessing) 175 XP, so not only is his gold tally messed up, he's still listed as level 2.

I know, I know: paper records are official and the online records are just... there. But is there any way to get this fixed?
You can file an appeal. There's a link to the appeal form in the personal information center (should be the bottom link in the same sidebar that has the "My Characters" link). It's not a quick process and also not very transparent (you probably won't hear anything about it until it's fixed), but that's really your only option.
I don't even look at the online tracking anymore... it got really screwed up at one point and meh, I've got my own records at least.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
You could file an appeal like jeffv said, but I would also recommed to just handle the matter like Keithric suggests -> just ignore the online tracking.

a) No DM will ever look at it

b) In the unlikely case of a DM taking a look at it, your handwritten paper is the primary source anyway. So in any contradiction between your sheet and your online tracker the tracker is automatically considered to be wrong.
I have three entire conventions plus 4 gamedays that have not shown up on my tracker.

I've filed a half dozen error reports and it hasn't resolved the issue.

So basically I gave up and just do what the CCG tells me to do, make sure my paper records are complete and up to date.



-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
So if the electronic records are so error-prone, out of date, and are generally ignored... then why do DMs have to fill them out?

Heck, why do *I* bother to fill them out when *I* DM?
So if the electronic records are so error-prone, out of date, and are generally ignored... then why do DMs have to fill them out?

Heck, why do *I* bother to fill them out when *I* DM?

I don't anymore. I gave up.
Well, rewards used to be based on reporting them, so it was a disservice to your players not to report them. Now it's a disservice to yourself since you won't get the free tile or mini or cards or whatever it is they end up sending DMs.

Also, just because online gets screwed up isn't an excuse to intentionally screw it up for someone else - I know many players who it is fine for... I think it's primarily some of us who went to certain conventions that don't care anymore
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Since rewards top out after running 5 games, I don't feel much impetus to pay much attention. I have gotten into the habit of reporting a bunch of games every couple weeks. Most of the time I don't even bother sanctioning the games before they are played if I already have the PDF. I admit that this might not be the greatest thing for the RPGA's player spastics, but since the system is a pain to use and provides no benefit to either DMs or players I don't feel particularly bad about it.

If they want people to take the time to jump through their hoops I figure they have two good options. First is to improve the DM bribes... I mean reward system. The other easy fix would be to make the tracker accountable and accurate so that it is a useful resource. Without either of those, I suspect it will go further and further downhill as more and more people get tired of jumping through hoops as it gets worse and worse...
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Joshua---

Others have already responded how to correct the discrepancy between your paper and online character tracking, so I won't address that.

I will tell you that I feel your pain, though. I never played much LG, who did all their tracking on paper, but I played a lot of XE, who did ALL their tracking online. I understand your desire to have both your paper and your online trackers match, and I wish you well with getting your records updated. It annoys me that my two characters both have reporting errors, but thankfully the local RPGA players here (mainly old LG players) don't tend to use the online character tracker, so I just try to ignore the discrepancies and keep my paperwork accurate.

As this thread has taken a turn as to the purpose of the online character tracker, I thought I'd chime in on that. I always figured the purpose of both online character tracking and paper character tracking is redundancy.

I write the following information on my paper cert for a mod for my own record-keeping purposes:
  • XP gained/lost
  • GP gained/lost
  • Bundle chosen (even if simply "extra gold")
  • DM
  • Players/characters/races
  • The Nth adventure this character has played (helpful when determining what magic items I chose at what levels)

Sadly, we're only - what, 7 months? - into this campaign, and I've already lost a cert. While I've lost all my detailed records for that mod, I can at least go back to the online character tracker (when it's accurate, mind you) and get the basic information I need from that mod, including which specific story objects I chose on that cert (if a choice had to be made, such as for the DALE1-1 cert).

Just a reason why two methods of tracking are helpful.

Cheers---
Lisa Ann
Only ran two LFR games so far myself but kept the paper records for each one, plus a copy of character sheets for my local players.
Christopher Green RPGA# 5209379759 Aelar Tel'ess'san - Elven Cleric Lvl 4 Veloch Shade - Tiefling Rogue Lvl 4 Adaeth the Mindwalker - Deva Psion Lvl 2 The Story Tellers' Guild The Roleplaying Association of SUNY Oswego http://www.oswego.edu/stg
Now it's a disservice to yourself since you won't get the free tile or mini or cards or whatever it is they end up sending DMs.

Not really. Whether you have 5, 10 or 50 DM Points in the system, you'll get the exact same reward (NOTE: If you have 4 or less points you won't get any reward).

Also, just because online gets screwed up isn't an excuse to intentionally screw it up for someone else

This is a good point. If you aren't reporting its a good idea to ask your players if they want one filled out (unless its the same group and they always say they don't care).

If they want people to take the time to jump through their hoops I figure they have two good options. First is to improve the DM bribes... I mean reward system. The other easy fix would be to make the tracker accountable and accurate so that it is a useful resource. Without either of those, I suspect it will go further and further downhill as more and more people get tired of jumping through hoops as it gets worse and worse...

Something important to point out is that you can buy and sell stuff between adventures. Currently there is no way for this to be reflected in the database. Therefore even if every DM did report everything correctly every time, it would still be wrong for certain/most players.
You might also want to ask your players whether or not they want to have an impact on the campaign, and perhaps even the setting. If you do not report, you do not fill in the questionairre and we do use those to plan for future adventures.
Something important to point out is that you can buy and sell stuff between adventures. Currently there is no way for this to be reflected in the database. Therefore even if every DM did report everything correctly every time, it would still be wrong for certain/most players.

If I do this, I normally note it in the GP +/- column on the reporting sheet of the next mod I play, for exactly that reason.
Something important to point out is that you can buy and sell stuff between adventures. Currently there is no way for this to be reflected in the database. Therefore even if every DM did report everything correctly every time, it would still be wrong for certain/most players.

That should be part of the recording. Say you spend 1k between two adventures and then earn 960gp in the following adventure your DM is supposed to write down -40gp as your gain for this adventure instead of 960gp
Putting aside the value or flaws of the online character tracker, there are two benefits to the campaign for Senior DMs to report the play activity.

One - it provides WotC with a metric of play activity. They use this and make decisions on the campaign based upon play activity. If numbers of DMs decide this is optional, then the play activity is recorded as being lower than it really is, and WotC may make unfavorable decisions about LFR.

Two - the table report also includes for most LFR adventures outcome results. This provides the Writing Directors with some feedback as to outcomes of adventures and helps guide future adventure writing. This feedback mechanism is necessary to having character actions change future plots.

Except for large cons with many tables to enter, it is my experience that the database entry system is not particularly difficult to use. It makes me sad that apparently some gamers need a carrot or application of a stick to encourage them to provide this valuable feedback to WotC and the LFR campaign staff.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Except for large cons with many tables to enter, it is my experience that the database entry system is not particularly difficult to use.

It does not allow you to correct your mistakes -- which was the reason for this thread to begin with -- and that is a serious design flaw. (All systems that accept data should allow for mistake correction.)

As noted by others, it does not enable tracking of purchased magic items as opposed to found bundles.

It does not appear to enforce some basic data validity rules (such as: maximum of 2 story awards per adventure; or max of ### XP per adventure). This goes back to my first point. If you're not going to allow mistake correction then you sure as heck better validate the data going in!

It makes me sad that apparently some gamers need a carrot or application of a stick to encourage them to provide this valuable feedback to WotC and the LFR campaign staff.

Users have a low tolerance for crappy systems. Especially when they are repeatedly told that the system is not an official source of data and they have to keep their own paper records.

Who wants to do duplicate work?
As noted by others, it does not enable tracking of purchased magic items as opposed to found bundles.

It does. Fill in a negative number of gold. There is no tracking of the exact items, but that was never the intent.

Users have a low tolerance for crappy systems. Especially when they are repeatedly told that the system is not an official source of data and they have to keep their own paper records.

Who wants to do duplicate work?

Just remember, as Keith said, that the system is used for much more than keeping your character updated. If you want the game to be supported by WotC, please book the games you play.
One - it provides WotC with a metric of play activity. They use this and make decisions on the campaign based upon play activity. If numbers of DMs decide this is optional, then the play activity is recorded as being lower than it really is, and WotC may make unfavorable decisions about LFR.

Two - the table report also includes for most LFR adventures outcome results.

While that is true, that should give WOTC a big incentive to fix the system so that people start caring about it again. It goes both ways.

It really isn't very motivational to have 20% of your sessions misreported, being unable to check your XP tally on-line, being about 1000 gp short in the GP tally, and being unable to fix any of that.
No one is denying this. The Global Admins--or at least this Global Admin--has made it perfectly clear to the RPGA that the problems with the reporting system are not acceptable. Hopefully something will be done about it. That does not change the fact that if players stop ordering and reporting RPGA events via the current system, then that hurts the likelihood that we will continue to get support from WotC, not just for LFR but for other, new offerigs as well. So while we may share your frustration and understand it as well, that does not mean we are going to stop reminding people to use the system. Otherwise, the problem may go away because the adventures do.

Thanks,

Shawn
No one is denying this. The Global Admins--or at least this Global Admin--has made it perfectly clear to the RPGA that the problems with the reporting system are not acceptable. Hopefully something will be done about it. That does not change the fact that if players stop ordering and reporting RPGA events via the current system, then that hurts the likelihood that we will continue to get support from WotC, not just for LFR but for other, new offerigs as well. So while we may share your frustration and understand it as well, that does not mean we are going to stop reminding people to use the system. Otherwise, the problem may go away because the adventures do.

Thanks,

Shawn

And honestly that's the only thing keeping me filling out the event reports. I'd hate to see WotC pull out support because the tracking looks like there are far fewer games being played than actually occur, and so they decide it's not a benefit to WotC to continue to support the LFR.
Something important to point out is that you can buy and sell stuff between adventures. Currently there is no way for this to be reflected in the database. Therefore even if every DM did report everything correctly every time, it would still be wrong for certain/most players.

If a module awards 100GPs at the end, and before that mod I spent 1000 gold, the GM should report my gold a -900 (note the negative mark).

That keeps your gold balance current online.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

No one is denying this. The Global Admins--or at least this Global Admin--has made it perfectly clear to the RPGA that the problems with the reporting system are not acceptable. Hopefully something will be done about it. That does not change the fact that if players stop ordering and reporting RPGA events via the current system, then that hurts the likelihood that we will continue to get support from WotC, not just for LFR but for other, new offerigs as well. So while we may share your frustration and understand it as well, that does not mean we are going to stop reminding people to use the system. Otherwise, the problem may go away because the adventures do.

Thanks,

Shawn

The SVCL also compiles and submits a monthly report of what's being discussed in the forums (and to a lesser degree the Yahoo Group).

So, even if Chris, Ian, or anyone else doesn't have the opportunity to swing by the forums on a regular (or semi-regular) basis, they're hearing about what's going on.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

Between problems with cons being reported (ever) or reported for the wrong character *sigh* and the fact that some online games don't seem to report at all. Its very frustrating.

I think a lot of people also felt let down when player rewards were closed and Gm rewards never amounted to anything.

If WOTC would make the space to report character sheets online then it would be worth it was a backup and people would be more likely to get things right.
This is my first year doing official RPGA sanction events and I make sure that before every session I have each player fill out the tracking form (especially the RPGA number, character number and name), so that I dont screw up the players records.

Unfortunately the due diligence is not reciprocated and my top two characters stats are messed up and now I am worried those errors would prevent me running those characters at GenCon. How closely are the characters check at the Cons?
How closely are the characters check at the Cons?

It would be really unusual if someone would want to check your online tracking at all. It's normally completly unimportant.
It does. Fill in a negative number of gold. There is no tracking of the exact items, but that was never the intent.

I think a better job at informing players of this is needed because I didn't even know it was possible until I started DMing (which means every single one of my characters that I've played are wrong in the database).

ALSO even upon DMing I wasn't aware if this cludge fix was meant to be used or not. And IMO it is a cludge fix. Its done because the system can't handle an ordinary, regular feature used by everyone who plays an RPGA game.

I also think it could lead to some DMs who check someone's sheet (for any number of reasons) growing very concerned with people who appear to be starting games with negative values of gold. Unless of course I do put in my correct value of gold and simply tell my DM to report the negative value, but again I don't think I'll see many/any people doing this.

Also if you want games reported, it would be handy if the home games weren't limited to only 2 games. 3-4 can be played in a reasonable day.
If you read the treasure boilerplate in every LFR adventure, it says:

If characters buy or sell magic items or other gear during the adventure (or pay for services) add or subtract that amount from the total gold the PC receives at the end of the adventure.


Since we don't do downtime activity in LFR, either before you leave the table, or when you arrive at the next table, you tell the DM, I bought stuff, I sold stuff..., and make the adjustment as above. I would hardly call that a cludge fix; it is a consistent adjustment which is not that difficult math and it was planned for from the beginning.

The reported value is the change (or delta) in cash, not your PC's net cash on hand.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Also if you want games reported, it would be handy if the home games weren't limited to only 2 games. 3-4 can be played in a reasonable day.

You do know that you can order multiple game sessions for the same day, don't you?

You want to order 4 games for a home session on a loooong Saturday, just order two sessions of two games each, and voila! there you have it.

And I just verified that you can order two home sessions for the same location on the same date, with two modules each, as I just did it.

2009-03-06 09-03-1850370 RPGA Home Las Vegas, NV, United States 0 0 RPGA Home Future Event Coordinator: Participated
2009-03-06 09-03-1850371 RPGA Home Las Vegas, NV, United States 0 0 RPGA Home Future Event Coordinator: Participated
Unfortunately the due diligence is not reciprocated and my top two characters stats are messed up and now I am worried those errors would prevent me running those characters at GenCon. How closely are the characters check at the Cons?

I really wouldn't worry about it. As Shawn has pointed out, the LFR and RPGA staff are well aware that the online character tracker data has issues; given that, I highly, highly doubt that they'd hold misreported data in it over a PC's head at a con. (And, I've honestly never heard of a character's online data being checked at a con in the first place...)
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
I have never heard of a player's online data being checked since previous D&D Campaigns "required" a printout of the PCs info. In LFR, paper documentation is the source players should use. The online tracking is supposed to be there for backup in case a player loses something, not for campaign staff to "check up" on players. We are counting on players being honest and keeping track of their own PCs.

Shawn
If you read the treasure boilerplate in every LFR adventure

My point was, players don't read such comments. And as such never know that's what they should be doing. I've also never had a DM (and I've played with a wide variety of them) ask me to do that. If I asked my players to do it, I know for a fact they wouldn't be able to do it that second. How many from a pick-up game would then do it when no other DM has asked them to, I'm unsure about.

You do know that you can order multiple game sessions for the same day, don't you?

Sure, but its yet another hoop you have to jump through just so you can update a buggy database. The more effort something requires, the less people that are going to do it. For example fixing your character is said to be often fruitless if you only shoot off the one report. Therefore we get threads where everyone tells the person not to bother.

That's the main problem with the database. Everyone here has the opinion that once you get one error such as an unreported game or a misreported game, you're out of luck, with the best you can hope for being that maybe it will get fixed. Once you get that one error, people start wondering why bother reporting games? It isn't to keep the character records accurate. And while I sympathise with the desire to keep the stats relevant to show WotC that people are playing LFR, not everyone is going to bother for just that.

I know for me I've had my first character incorrectly reported from day 1 due to a limitation in the database software. I came on here and asked how to fix it just like everyone else does when they get their first error, and I was told "don't bother because who knows if the staff will actually fix it" and to be honest this isn't a very inspiring comment to hear when you first start. It does make me care very little for the database.

Perhaps if WotC would make the database fixes much more user friendly (and hey, let's even make them user-changeable. Because its not like having only DMs do it is establishing anything. All it does is make sure players stop caring about keeping the database accurate) and perhaps more people would start using it. Although I think many will be at the stage where they think its too late because they've been playing too many unreported games. If you want these people to come back, you need an easy, friendly way for them to fix their characters.
I recently played in LURU 1-1 (high tier) with one of my characters, and he gained 175 GP and 560 XP, which took him to 3rd level. However, it was reported as 560 GP and (I'm guessing) 175 XP, so not only is his gold tally messed up, he's still listed as level 2.

This wasn't me, was it?

*Flips through paperwork*

Whew. Okay. Wasn't me.
Ryan P. Kappler Community Manager for Living Forgotten Realms.
I don't recall exactly who I spoke with at DDXP about the reporting issue(s), but when I mentioned reporting/appealing as an issue, I remember being told "It's being addressed"

No, no time frame was given. No, I wasn't told how it's being addressed. However, I remain faithful that this means both Chris and the WPN Database people are well aware of the issues, and are working on some form of fix.

I'm hoping it comes in time with the website overhaul we were told is in the works.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

I have five LFR characters. The last time I checked, which has been a while, not one of them was correct. I write my gold, XP, and any bundle I might have chosen on the back of my story awards and move on. ;)
In case it was missed, the update to the Character Builder includes an update to the Journal.

The CB's Journal now matches the RPGA adventure log - so if you want to track your GP and XP yourself (not to mention making far more detailed notes of your adventures) you can do it all in one place.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter

In case it was missed, the update to the Character Builder includes an update to the Journal.

The CB's Journal now matches the RPGA adventure log - so if you want to track your GP and XP yourself (not to mention making far more detailed notes of your adventures) you can do it all in one place.

Great. Now if only Character Builder worked on my Mac. /sigh
Great. Now if only Character Builder worked on my Mac. /sigh

WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter


Heh, I'm assuming that's a joke referring to the fact that for some reason, the Character Builder seems to hate Parallels!
I have Parallels, but can't get it to work, and neither can two other GMs with Macs in my area.
Oh well, filling out character sheets is kind of zen for me anyways. Like trimming a banzai tree.
Like trimming a banzai tree.

You have a suicidal tree? ;) (guessing you meant "bonsai"... :D )
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
Heh, I'm assuming that's a joke referring to the fact that for some reason, the Character Builder seems to hate Parallels!
I have Parallels, but can't get it to work, and neither can two other GMs with Macs in my area.
Oh well, filling out character sheets is kind of zen for me anyways. Like trimming a banzai tree.

As a DDI News Guide I've gotten used to: everytime someone says that the CB doesn't run on a Mac, at least one reply from someone is "Just get Paralells if you want it that bad!"

I wasn't aware it was unhappy with that combo, however. There are some threads in the DDI forum that, if I recall correctly, talk about it working in that config. You might want to see if there's any advice for you in there.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide

Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter