Cashing in on the Rust Monster

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Has anyone else had a look at the Rust Monster stat card on Ampersand today?

Apparently it can eat your [rusted] magical weapons and armour, then deposits the full market value of residium at the end of the encounter.

While it may not be worth the loss of a magical item slot... it certainly might be worthwhile getting rid of an obsolete magical weapon or suit of armour (below level 11) this way.

I wonder how many Rust Monsters will turn up in future LFR adventures?

;)
I noticed that too.

Horrible, horrible design flaw. I can't believe that got past editing.
Eh - it means you're a lot less upset when it destroys something and there's no real harm since you can only use the money/residuum to get something of your level or lower.

In a theoretical sense, people would have rust monsters around for converting items, but it won't work out that way so I don't think it'll be a big deal.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Four step guide to become a rich swordmage:

1. bond with a magical sword with non-metal parts (e.g. leather around the hilt)

2. Feed your sword to a rustmonster and slay it

3. collect the residiuum and then reforge the sword from the unrusted leather wrappings

4. Profit :P :P :P

PS: Residiuum technically isn't a "fragment" isn't it? ;)

PPS: I really wait for an opportunity to get my sword broken in a way that makes the sword-repair class-feature usefull
Ritual ring + Rust monster = +1/2 market value in item created at no cost to you!
This thread is filled with so much dumb it hurts my head.

Seriously, at Epic tier, who cares about 2500gp. And, can you imagine the work involved in getting that 2500gp?

1. Get or make ring.
2. Make level 10 magic item.
3. Get into a fight with a rust monster.
4. Wait patiently while rust monster fails to hit you (because it can probably only hit you on a 20.
5. Hope rust monster uses encounter attack on you.
6. When encounter attack misses, flee from rust monster and wait for it to recover its encounter attack.
7. Repeat steps 3-6 until the unlikely moment that the darn thing actually hits with encounter attack.
8. Earn gold equal to about 1% of a magic item of your level (possibly less).

-SYB
No one is suggesting this is actually a viable way to make money.

It's just that the rust monster design is BAD. Glaringly bad.

That's the stupid.
No one is suggesting this is actually a viable way to make money.

It's just that the rust monster design is BAD. Glaringly bad.

That's the stupid.

Glaringly bad suggests that it can be abused. I have yet to see a realistic example that can successfully abuse this design mechanic (and I have seen a lot of unrealistic examples on the forums already).

-SYB
Seems like a reasonable way to take an item from players without the inordinate sting that it used to have. That's not bad design.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Given their abilities, I would fully expect larger cities to have some folks who keep them specifically to disenchant-for-profit.

Hell, if one appears in an adventure I fully expect some PCs to try and capture it.



-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
Well, you do have to kill the rust monster to get your residuum...

Also, it could easily just digest some of the residuum outside of the odd combat encounter. Perhaps one kept in captivity only produces 20% of the magic item's value in residuum.

There's no need or point to trying to break monster abilities. They're monsters.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Well, you do have to kill the rust monster to get your residuum...

...which to me says that the purchase price of a rust monster should be 80% of the value of the magic items it plans to digest. ;)
I doubt we'll see a rusk monster in LFR anyway anytime soon.
Does anyone know what effect Rust Monsters will have on the ever growing Warforge population.
Does anyone know what effect Rust Monsters will have on the ever growing Warforge population.

Three words:
Nom
Nom
Nom!
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
Glaringly bad suggests that it can be abused. I have yet to see a realistic example that can successfully abuse this design mechanic (and I have seen a lot of unrealistic examples on the forums already).

-SYB

Um, that seems pretty easy to abuse...

Real LFR example:
My Paladin/Warlock has a specific item(Star of Corellon) he has to pay to upgrade and he expects to have to do this from 8th to 28th level.
In one mod, he found an 11th level item when he was around 6th level. At 7th, he sold it for 6th level item cash to help pay for it. Happily, in fact.

With the Rust Monster, he could have fed the Rust Monster the item, got 9K of residium instead of 1800 gold. That would have not only covered the full cost of the item, but he would have had an extra 5600 gold left over - enough to purchase a couple choice 6th or 7th level items.
Um, that seems pretty easy to abuse...

Real LFR example:
My Paladin/Warlock has a specific item(Star of Corellon) he has to pay to upgrade and he expects to have to do this from 8th to 28th level.
In one mod, he found an 11th level item when he was around 6th level. At 7th, he sold it for 6th level item cash to help pay for it. Happily, in fact.

With the Rust Monster, he could have fed the Rust Monster the item, got 9K of residium instead of 1800 gold. That would have not only covered the full cost of the item, but he would have had an extra 5600 gold left over - enough to purchase a couple choice 6th or 7th level items.

Rust monster can't eat an item over 11th level. Also, you can't exactly choose what item a rust monster will eat. If you are in combat with a rust monster, it eats whatever the DM chooses it to eat. If you aren't in combat, then the monster isn't using combat skills on you.

Like I said, I have seen a lot of unrealistic scenarios, but no realistic ones yet.

-SYB
My initial idea would be this...

  • I spot a Rust Monster...
  • I draw my +1 Lightning Weapon (that I haven't used since level 3, when I got my Vanguard Weapon, but it is taking up a slot)...
  • I hit the Rust Monster and rust the weapon...
  • I hope the Rust Monster eats the Lightning Weapon to give me 1000gp worth of Residuim.

If it doesn't, there is no big loss.

If it does... I'm quids in... 1000gp bonus at level 4!

Incidentally, I wonder if there is any DME on the Rust Monster rusting power... my Orc character uses a huge mallet (mordencrad) that is 100% wooden... I would hope it is immune to the rusting effect!
Rust monster can't eat an item over 11th level. Also, you can't exactly choose what item a rust monster will eat. If you are in combat with a rust monster, it eats whatever the DM chooses it to eat. If you aren't in combat, then the monster isn't using combat skills on you.

Like I said, I have seen a lot of unrealistic scenarios, but no realistic ones yet.

-SYB

What about if you've somehow dominated the Rust Monster? Wouldn't you then have control over using it's abilities and how it uses them?
Eh - it means you're a lot less upset when it destroys something

This is how I view the update to 4e for this monster. You have to remember, they update these monsters with normal D&D in mind, not necessarily with RPGA games in mind.

If its too unbalancing for an RPGA game, its a simple matter to include in the writing guidelines a list of monsters that can't be used in an LFR mod.
What about if you've somehow dominated the Rust Monster? Wouldn't you then have control over using it's abilities and how it uses them?

You can only use at-wills with a dominate effect.
My initial idea would be this...

  • I spot a Rust Monster...
  • I draw my +1 Lightning Weapon (that I haven't used since level 3, when I got my Vanguard Weapon, but it is taking up a slot)...
  • I hit the Rust Monster and rust the weapon...
  • I hope the Rust Monster eats the Lightning Weapon to give me 1000gp worth of Residuim.

If it doesn't, there is no big loss.

If it does... I'm quids in... 1000gp bonus at level 4!

Incidentally, I wonder if there is any DME on the Rust Monster rusting power... my Orc character uses a huge mallet (mordencrad) that is 100% wooden... I would hope it is immune to the rusting effect!

It is my personal opinion that mordencrads are not made entirely of wood, based on both the description and the general power of the weapon. That is an argument you could have with your table DM, though. For now, I will accept your proposition.

That said, yes, it might eat your weapon. It also might eat your armor, which it sounds like you are still using. Or your amulet. Or the spare weapon you left on your back (you know, the better one). Also, I haven't read the preview (no DDi). I know for sure that the rust monster can only eat level 10 and below items. But what level is the rust monster? It is very likely that a rust monster vs. a level 4 character could be a very ugly fight.

It sounds like some scenarios here do end up with a big loss for you.

-SYB
Well, level 11 items are, what, 9000g? So a tamed rust monster costs 7200g if you want it to never, ever, ever possible to 'break' the concept.

I believe by default it would cost 1800g, since it's a level 6 monster so it'd be based on a level 6 item. Even at that cost you're still pretty safe, though...

Unless you bring in the ritual ring - which is the thing that's broken, not the rust monster - then all it does is change the amount of pocket change you get when you decide to sell an item. This won't break any games at all, since all it does is allow you to correct a minor previous mistake or mildly improve your amount of treasure.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
One typo can ruin a discussion. A rust monster can only eat 10th level and below items. The 11th level in my previous post was a disastrous typo.

-SYB
It is my personal opinion that mordencrads are not made entirely of wood, based on both the description and the general power of the weapon. That is an argument you could have with your table DM, though. For now, I will accept your proposition.

That said, yes, it might eat your weapon. It also might eat your armor, which it sounds like you are still using. Or your amulet. Or the spare weapon you left on your back (you know, the better one). Also, I haven't read the preview (no DDi). I know for sure that the rust monster can only eat level 10 and below items. But what level is the rust monster? It is very likely that a rust monster vs. a level 4 character could be a very ugly fight.

It sounds like some scenarios here do end up with a big loss for you.

-SYB

The Rust Monster is a level 6 Skirmisher, you can find them at 4th level.

The Rust Monster has to hit you to rust your armour (and it's armour only by RAW), but your weapon auto-rusts when you hit it... it's much more likely that a weapon will be rusted before any magical armour... and only metal armour and weapons are affected by the RAW.

Incidentally the Rust Monster only eats worn Armour and held Weapons, not amulets etc.

My example is an entirely likely proposition.
The Rust Monster is a level 6 Skirmisher, you can find them at 4th level.

The Rust Monster has to hit you to rust your armour (and it's armour only by RAW), but your weapon auto-rusts when you hit it... it's much more likely that a weapon will be rusted before any magical armour... and only metal armour and weapons are affected by the RAW.

Incidentally the Rust Monster only eats worn Armour and held Weapons, not amulets etc.

My example is an entirely likely proposition.

...which requires a cooperative DM.

-SYB
With the Rust Monster, he could have fed the Rust Monster the item, got 9K of residium instead of 1800 gold. That would have not only covered the full cost of the item, but he would have had an extra 5600 gold left over - enough to purchase a couple choice 6th or 7th level items.

Residum != gp. In the book it mentions that some cultures use residuum as equivalent to gold since it is easier to carry. I have not found anything in the FR setting to indicate this is the case in the Realms.

In some exotic locales, residuum is traded as currency, measured by weight and carried in small metal vials.

The word "residuum" doesn't even appear in either the FRCS or the FRPG.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Residum != gp. In the book it mentions that some cultures use residuum as equivalent to gold since it is easier to carry. I have not found anything in the FR setting to indicate this is the case in the Realms.

You can always use residuum as money for buying magical items, since you can get the Enchant Item ritual cheaply (or for free, if a wizard) and you use the residuum to power that.

I agree it's bad design on the rust monster, though. Not to mention more than a little silly.
You can always use residuum as money for buying magical items, since you can get the Enchant Item ritual cheaply (or for free, if a wizard) and you use the residuum to power that.

Well, just to be a bit semantic, you still aren't using the residuum as "money to buy magical items." You can use the residuum as a ritual component in place of regular esoteric ritual components (listed on page 300). You couldn't use the residuum for the market price of a ritual scroll or book for example.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Residum != gp. In the book it mentions that some cultures use residuum as equivalent to gold since it is easier to carry. I have not found anything in the FR setting to indicate this is the case in the Realms.

Residuum has an 'equivalent gold piece value' on page 223. You're getting confused by the difference between a value and a currency. One ounce of gold is worth about $900 right now. You can't walk into a electronics chain, plunk down an ounce of gold, and walk off with a big screen TV. Because while that ounce of gold might be worth $900, that doesn't make it a currency. You could go down to the nearest place that legally trades gold and exchange that ounce for $900(minus a little) to then go to the electronics chain and buy the TV.

On page 225, it says in some exotic locales, residuum is traded as currency, measured by weight. That means they use X weight of residuum in a vial to equal Y Gold. It then goes on to specifically state that 1 pound of residuum is worth 500,000 gold. Not as a currency, as the value of holding onto 1 pound of residuum.
True. But try to hand a handful of residuum to someone to pay for something and they'll look at you funny. And I doubt there's a handy residuum exchange shop located in every town.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
True. But try to hand a handful of residuum to someone to pay for something and they'll look at you funny. And I doubt there's a handy residuum exchange shop located in every town.

Since 95% of the time you'll be buying somethin in LFR it will be a magic item anyway you can just convert basically all your money into residium. I will definately do that and only leave some spare cash (not more than 200 gp) for emergencies.
Since 95% of the time you'll be buying somethin in LFR it will be a magic item anyway you can just convert basically all your money into residium. I will definately do that and only leave some spare cash (not more than 200 gp) for emergencies.

You can only do that if your character can cast Enchant Magic Item. Actually forget I said that. You can't do that. As per the PHB, you can't buy residuum. You can buy any of the other ritual components, but not residuum. But assuming you buy Alchemical Reagents, you can only convert them to magic items if you can cast Enchant Magic Items. The rules (PHB and CCG) do not allow for you to buy magic items with scroll components.

-SYB
I hate to put some rain on the parade but...

You defeat Rust monster....you lose magic item...Rust monster has dust...for the mod. if its not on the giveouts at the end of the mod...who's to say you actually get that much dust?

Yep..you find 100% of the price of your magic item in residuum....unfortunately the mod in no way says you keep it..

I could see that happening. Unless there are rules for keeping residuum that I havn't heard of yet.
You can only do that if your character can cast Enchant Magic Item. Actually forget I said that. You can't do that. As per the PHB, you can't buy residuum.

That sucks. I can cast EMI but was also planing to only carry around residiuum so that I have always the right kind of ritual component (sucks if you need to cast a nature ritual for 1kgp but only have 500gp of each nature, arcane and divine components with you. With residiuum I would just have 1,5k gp in universal components)
That sucks. I can cast EMI but was also planing to only carry around residiuum so that I have always the right kind of ritual component (sucks if you need to cast a nature ritual for 1kgp but only have 500gp of each nature, arcane and divine components with you. With residiuum I would just have 1,5k gp in universal components)

If you could buy residuum in stores, there would be no purpose to the other components existing. Residuum is special. It is a treasure or obtained by sacrificing treasure.

-SYB
You defeat Rust monster....you lose magic item...Rust monster has dust...for the mod. if its not on the giveouts at the end of the mod...who's to say you actually get that much dust?

By that logic, if a creature disarms you and picks up your weapon, the item has to be listed as a reward at the end of the module for you to keep it after you kill him.

-- Brian Gibbons.
Didn't play LG much in higher levels? Or just have very very lenient DMs? I saw critters with silly amounts of treasure..reward or whatever....and we only got an insignificant fraction of what was rewarded.

The problem with mods is that, no matter how the encounter ends, no matter how much you cheese things and convince NPC's, monsters, whatever, to give you all of their money 5 times over. What you take away is still just what you brought into the mod, along with whatever the mod rewards are.

Now I could see a line in there stating +residuum = to amount rust monster made...but that is the only way to do it for now...with how LFR mods go.
If you could buy residuum in stores, there would be no purpose to the other components existing. Residuum is special. It is a treasure or obtained by sacrificing treasure.

You are not prohibited from buying or selling residuum. You just "can't usually buy it on the open market."

That same statement can apply to all sorts of things in D&D - you can't buy a +6 Vorpal Weapon on the open market either...
You are not prohibited from buying or selling residuum. You just "can't usually buy it on the open market."

That same statement can apply to all sorts of things in D&D - you can't buy a +6 Vorpal Weapon on the open market either...

And that is what we call manipulating the intent of the rules to abuse them.

-SYB
And why there is a rule in the CCG stating you can buy a magic weapon.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf