Biggest Clear Cut Rules Mistakes Compendium

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This is intended to be a list of things people have seen characters do that are flat out wrong without any gray areas. Feel free to post additional items and I'll edit the following posts appropriately.

List of Resources:
D&D Updates - what used to be known as Errata is now known as Updates.
RPGA Downloads - while all useful, this is especially for where the newest Character Creation Guide is.
Cleric
Healing Word may only be used once per round. PHB Page 62.

Fighter
Combat Challenge does not stop movement because it does not generate an opportunity attack. If someone shifts away from you and charges in a way that does not provoke an opportunity attack, you get a melee basic attack as an immediate interrupt which is not an OA. PHB Page 76. Also, that melee basic attack from Combat Challenge is an immediate action - you may only take one per round. Fighter automatically marks opponents by attacking them.

Paladin
You must have attacked or be next to your Divine Challenge Mark at the end of the round, or your Divine Challenge goes away. Marked is a condition separate from Divine Challenge - you only do Divine Challenge damage when you've Marked them via Divine Challenge, not other methods.

Ranger
Quarry is nearest target. You may only Quarry 1/round and not in the middle of another action.

Rogue
The following conditions cause Combat Advantage: Blinded, Dazed, Dominated, Helpless, Prone(melee only), Restrained, Stunned, and Surprised. Immobilized and Slowed do not. PHB 277

Warlock
Can only Curse the nearest target and cannot Curse a target already cursed. PHB 131. Yes, this sometimes presents problems when two warlocks are in the same party.

Warlord
Inspiring Word can only be used once a round. PHB 145.

Wizard

Artificer

Swordmage
Marked is a condition separate from Swordmage Aegis - Swordmage Aegis only activates when you've Marked them via Swordmage Aegis, not other methods.

Barbarian

Bard

Druid
Not yet legal. Was not compiled.

Invoker
Not yet legal. Was not compiled.
Immediate Actions cannot be taken during your turn. PHB 268. As an example, if you have a power that triggers when you are attacked, it can't go off by you moving in such a way to take an opportunity attack. Also, you can only take one of them per round.

Opportunity Actions from being adjacent are not typically provoked by Close or Melee attacks, only Ranged or Area powers.

Forced Movement powers such as Slides, Pushes, etc...do not require you to move the target the full distance or at all. PHB 285.

Hard Corners usually require 2 spaces of movement to go around. See example on PHB 283.

Shift and Standing from Prone are both Move Actions.
Action Surge only affects the action you gained by spending the action point, not the other actions on your turn. PHB 193.

Channel Divinity Feats require the ability to Channel Divinity, which is a class feature unique to Paladins, Clerics, and Invokers. Multiclassing into one of those classes does not grant that ability.

Conjured Creatures cannot flank. They do not gain opportunity attacks(AV 180) and if you are prevented from taking opportunity actions, you don't flank(PHB 285). Beast Companions are not Conjured Creatures(MP 39)

Minotaur Characters do not gain the Oversized ability from Monster Manual. They gain something called Heedless Charge instead. Dragon 367, page 6.
Deliberate rules breaking or just people making mistakes cos they didn't understand?

Cos your thread title says one thing but you actual post implies another.

People using their Constitution Modifier instead of their full score for starting hit points is one mistake I've seen a few times.



-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
Almost anything regarding DME. :D
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Deliberate rules breaking or just people making mistakes cos they didn't understand?

Cos your thread title says one thing but you actual post implies another.

People using their Constitution Modifier instead of their full score for starting hit points is one mistake I've seen a few times.

These are just things I've seen. But hopefully after this thread, it will make it less likely that either will happen. I'm more looking for things that people do as actions rather than build mistakes. The constitution thing should be easily fixed by any observant player. "You got hit by a minion and you're already bloodied? What?"
Player makes opportunity attack or uses immediate action on that player's turn.

Player trying to quarry or mark (paladin mark) in the middle of a charge.

Player taking an action (without an action point) after a charge.

Shift/walk past a hard corner (this may be the biggest 3e holdover rule that everyone seems to get wrong).

Trying to shift as a minor action.

Trying to stand from prone as a minor action.

-SYB
Fighter
Combat Challenge does not stop movement. If someone shifts away from you and charges in a way that does not provoke an opportunity attack, you get a melee basic attack as an immediate interrupt, but you do not stop movement. PHB Page 76.

More specifically, Combat Challenge is NOT an opportunity attack, which is WHY it does not trigger Combat Superiority.


-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
Warlocks cursing targets more than once per round.

Rangers designating targets in between twin strike attacks rather than prior to making attack rolls (i.e. "I use twin strike. I hit this guy first. Does he drop? If so, I hit this other guy").

Rangers waiting to hear the result of the triggering attack roll before using Disruptive Strike (something I used to be guilty of).

Multiple PCs provoking OAs in order to trigger their own Immediate or Opportunity actions on their own turn.

Swordmages utilizing Aegis Immediate actions from outside of 10 squares.
Dave Kay LFR Writing Director Retiree dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
Class: Any, but cleric or Paladin
MC into a cleric and picking up a Divine Feat.

Class: Fighter
'Triggering' the combat challange twice during the same round.

Class: Paladin
Creature 'marked' by Paladin is killed by Paladin. So as a minor action to end the Paladin's round he 'marks' another creature that is not adjacent or attacked by the paladin.
Rules question here -

dkay807
Multiple PCs provoking OAs in order to trigger their own Immediate or Opportunity actions on their own turn.

Some of these I thought are legal if the OAs 'trigger' the powers 'triggered' keyword.

Stuff like 'you are hit', 'you are attacked', 'ally is attacked' etc.
Rules question here -

dkay807


Some of these I thought are legal if the OAs 'trigger' the powers 'triggered' keyword.

Stuff like 'you are hit', 'you are attacked', 'ally is attacked' etc.

It doesn't matter what the trigger is. The bottom line is that you may not take an Opportunity Action on your own turn. An Opportunity Attack counts as an Opportunity Action...

PHB 268 (emphasis my own):

OPPORTUNITY ACTION
✦ Trigger: Opportunity actions allow you to take an
action in response to an enemy letting its guard
down. The one type of opportunity action that every
combatant can take is an opportunity attack (page
290). Opportunity attacks are triggered by an enemy
leaving a square adjacent to you or by an adjacent
enemy making a ranged attack or an area attack.
✦ Once per Combatant’s Turn: You can take no
more than one opportunity action on each other
combatant’s turn. You can’t take an opportunity
action on your own turn.

✦ Interrupts Action: An opportunity action interrupts
the action that triggered it.
Dave Kay LFR Writing Director Retiree dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
It doesn't matter what the trigger is. The bottom line is that you may not take an Opportunity Action on your own turn. An Opportunity Attack counts as an Opportunity Action...

I agree about OAs. What I have seen, and confused about is the other -
Multiple PCs provoking OAs in order to trigger their own Immediate or Opportunity actions on their own turn.

Immediate actions I'm quoting you on. Some powers have a 'triggered' keyword about your character being hit or attacked. It's these powers I'm wondering about.

PS. Wish I could give example but no books with me.
Stuff I've seen:

1. Rolling damage for sneak/quarry on a crit (although this may be a rules ambiguity).

2. Forgetting to roll a die per enhancement bonus on a crit.

3. Burst vs Blast.

4. Close doesn't provoke, Area does.

5. Probably more I'm forgetting because I was gaming until 2:30 AM yesterday.
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
One which I find a lot of people do not realize (or flat out deny):
If a power lets you slide, pull, or push an opponent, you can choose to slide, pull, or push less than the indicated number of squares, including 0 squares (i.e. not at all).
(PHB, rules on forced movement)
Rangers waiting to hear the result of the triggering attack roll before using Disruptive Strike (something I used to be guilty of).

While I agree with the interpretation, I don't think that's clear cut. I'm looking for things where a player simply shouldn't be doing something period. I don't want this thread to potentially devolve into rules arguments.

Class: Paladin
Creature 'marked' by Paladin is killed by Paladin. So as a minor action to end the Paladin's round he 'marks' another creature that is not adjacent or attacked by the paladin.

That's actually legal. However, the Paladin will then lose the benefits of the Divine Challenge.
Immediate actions I'm quoting you on. Some powers have a 'triggered' keyword about your character being hit or attacked. It's these powers I'm wondering about.

Triggered means it is a form of an immediate action. So, they don't work on an opportunity attack on your turn.
Triggered means it is a form of an immediate action. So, they don't work on an opportunity attack on your turn.

Not necessarily...there are a number of triggered powers that are free actions specifically so they can be used on your own turn. Of course the point that you can't take immediate action on your own turn is still valid.
One thing I haven't seen yet but it's probably going to come up:

Bard:
Misdirected Mark allows an ally to Mark your target. This does NOT count as one of the special Mark types that some classes have, such as Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge. As such it only imposes the standard effects of a 'generic' Mark, namely a -2 to attacks against anyone but the person who placed the Mark.

Confirmed by CS via e-mail, for what it's worth.


-karma
plays a bard
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
One thing I haven't seen yet but it's probably going to come up:

Bard:
Misdirected Mark allows an ally to Mark your target. This does NOT count as one of the special Mark types that some classes have, such as Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge. As such it only imposes the standard effects of a 'generic' Mark, namely a -2 to attacks against anyone but the person who placed the Mark.

I don't think that's entirely clear cut and wouldn't rule that way for Combat Challenge - Divine Challenge is an at-will which happens to mark. Combat Challenge describes what happens whenever someone you've marked does one of two actions.

But that's a good point about Divine Challenge.
One thing I haven't seen yet but it's probably going to come up:

Bard:
Misdirected Mark allows an ally to Mark your target. This does NOT count as one of the special Mark types that some classes have, such as Combat Challenge or Divine Challenge.

I've seen this one come up (I've played a bard a couple of times, and one other local has also played one a bit). Even for classes that apply a condition that isn't even related to marking (except in a "condition plus source" sense).

This one is actually really hard for some people (including CS if the poster I have quoted asked them specifically about the Fighter) to get right. Here goes:

"Marked" is a condition (like blinded or dazed or immobilized) that gives the target a -2 to attack anyone other than the creature who has them marked. Here are more specific details regarding Paladin, Swordmage, Ranger, Warlock, and Fighter:

1) Paladin. The Paladin has an ability called Divine Challenge. This ability has, as a side effect, the quality of "marking" a foe. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Paladin's favour, the Paladin is NOT considered to have issued a Divine Challenge to that foe. However, other benefits granted by a simple mark (such as the extra penalty from Enfeebling Strike) ARE granted.

2) Swordmage. The Swordmage has an ability called an Aegis. This ability has, as a side effect, the quality of "marking" a foe. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Swordmage's favour, the Swordmage is NOT considered to have placed an Aegis upon that foe.

3) Ranger. The Ranger has an ability called Hunter's Quarry. Hunter's Quarry has nothing to do with the "marked" condition.

4) Warlock. The Warlock has an ability called Warlock's Curse. Warlock's Curse has nothing to do with the "marked" condition.

5) Fighter. The Fighter has an ability called Combat Challenge. The application part of this ability applies a simple mark, and no other condition. The follow-up portion of this ability requires a simple mark, and no other condition. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Fighter's favour, the Fighter IS considered to have the foe marked, and the follow-up portion of the Combat Challenge ability WILL function as if the Fighter had marked the foe on his own.

A Bard is a Fighter's best friend.
Here are a few of my observations over the last seven months.

1. The Grab Action does not move the target into your square (PHB pg. 290). The same goes for creatures using a Grab unless the power being used specifically says so.

2. There is no "flat-footed" condition anymore. There are no armor class penalties before your initiative turn anymore unless you have a rogue with First Strike in play (PHB pg. 267).

3. Everyone can attempt any Skill Check. Trained only means you get plus five. Every character "has" all skills except two: to diminish falling damage with Acrobatics and use detect magic with Arcana.

-------- Don (Greyson) --------

Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S.-American

Here are a few of my observations over the last seven months.

1. The Grab Action does not move the target into your square (PHB pg. 290). The same goes for creatures using a Grab unless the power being used specifically says so.

2. There is no "flat-footed" condition anymore. There are no armor class penalties before your initiative turn anymore unless you have a rogue with First Strike in play (PHB pg. 267).

3. Everyone can attempt any Skill Check. Trained only means you get plus five. Every character "has" all skills except two: to diminish falling damage with Acrobatics and use detect magic with Arcana.

Actually in ref to your #3. There are certain functions of skills that you can only do if you are TRAINED in the skill. i.e Acrobatics - reduce falling damage or Arcana - Detect magic
Actually in ref to your #3. There are certain functions of skills that you can only do if you are TRAINED in the skill. i.e Acrobatics - reduce falling damage or Arcana - Detect magic

I noted that in post - at the end. Did you read all of my #3, or just the first part?

-------- Don (Greyson) --------

Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S.-American

I noted that in post - at the end. Did you read all of my #3, or just the first part?

Just the 1st part.
Rogue:
Level 6 at-will Utility power Chameleon is an Immediate Interrupt that triggers if an opponent moves to a square that reveals your hiding place. It cannot be used on your own turn.
To elaborate, if you move out from cover or concealment, you cannot choose to use it in plain sight.

Misuse Example in Play: Rogue sneaks up on enemy camp in the open, making a Stealth check (DM uses the option to allow sneaky characters to approach guards 'from behind' and thus remain unnoticed on the approach). Combat begins. Rogue, still in the open, attacks an enemy with Combat Advantage. He then relies on the idea that he was allowed to sneak up on enemies pre-combat to justify remaining unnoticed after stabbing one of the bad guys. He uses Chameleon to essentially hide in plain sight until the end of his next turn.
Fighter
Combat Challenge does not stop movement because it does not generate an opportunity attack. If someone shifts away from you and charges in a way that does not provoke an opportunity attack, you get a melee basic attack as an immediate interrupt which is not an OA.

To be fair, there appears to be some confusion at WOTC about this as well. Compare, for example, the text in the table for the Potent Challenge feat (PH p. 197) with the full text of the feat (PH p. 199):
PH p. 197
Potent Challenge
Add Con modifier damage to target hit with opportunity attack
PH p. 199
Potent Challenge
Benefit: If you hit a foe with an attack granted by your Combat Challenge class feature, add your Constitution modifier to the damage roll.
It would not surprise me to learn that, originally, the fighter's Combat Challenge was an opportunity attack and that Combat Superiority was supposed to work with Combat Challenge to make the fighter more sticky.

But, yes, it is clear from the text that the Combat Challenge is not an opportunity attack, and that Combat Superiority hence does not work with it.

Another rules mistake that I've seen, though not recently, is minions taking damage from misses (e.g., a Fighter's Reaping Strike).

-- Brian Gibbons.
Had a group where some fighter thought fighter a was allowed to use his combat challenger against critter a who was marked by fighter b. or fighter 1 and fighter b where able to make OA attack against critter A cause he was marked by swordmage A. Since the critter was marked and not attacking the fighters.

Seen people add prof bonus to dmg rolls
5) Fighter. The Fighter has an ability called Combat Challenge. The application part of this ability applies a simple mark, and no other condition. The follow-up portion of this ability requires a simple mark, and no other condition. If a Bard ally misdirects a mark in the Fighter's favour, the Fighter IS considered to have the foe marked, and the follow-up portion of the Combat Challenge ability WILL function as if the Fighter had marked the foe on his own.

Another mistake I've seen with Fighters is lumping Combat Superiority in with Combat Challenge, both for benefits and limitations. The Wisdom bonus to Opportunity Attacks granted by Combat Superiority does not apply to a Combat Challenge attack, or to any other basic attack that is not an Opportunity Attack.

On the other hand, the fighter's ability to stop an opponent's move with an OA is not limited to marked opponents, and furthermore, since it is not a part of Combat Challenge, opponents will not automatically know that the fighter can do so, even if they are marked.


One I've seen more as a query from other players than a mistake on the part of the Fighter's player:

A Fighter can mark any opponent they attack, on their turn or otherwise, whether they hit or miss, and they can have multiple opponents marked at once.
FighterAlso, Combat Challenge is an immediate action - you may only take one per round.

Not quite true. The attack on a marked enemy that shifts is an immediate interrupt, but the other Combat Challenge attacks are Opportunity Attacks, which you can make once per each combatant's turn.
Not quite true. The attack on a marked enemy that shifts is an immediate interrupt, but the other Combat Challenge attacks are Opportunity Attacks, which you can make once per each combatant's turn.

No. That's the Combat Superiority feature...Combat Challenge has absolutely nothing to do with opportunity attacks.
Not quite true. The attack on a marked enemy that shifts is an immediate interrupt, but the other Combat Challenge attacks are Opportunity Attacks, which you can make once per each combatant's turn.

Combat Superiority activates on OAs, but Combat Challenge grants immediate interrupts only.
Not quite true. The attack on a marked enemy that shifts is an immediate interrupt, but the other Combat Challenge attacks are Opportunity Attacks, which you can make once per each combatant's turn.

Disagree:

In addition, whenever an enemy marked by you that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

All the errata did was make it clear you can only use Combat Challenge on enemies you marked, and it still shows the attack response as an immediate interrupt, not a "normal" opportunity attack.

On another subject, an easy rules miss is on the Swordmage's Aegis of Assault, which is that the marked opponent's attack must hit before the Swordmage gets the option to teleport in and attack it. (FRPG page 26)
Rangers designating targets in between twin strike attacks rather than prior to making attack rolls (i.e. "I use twin strike. I hit this guy first. Does he drop? If so, I hit this other guy").

Can someone reference where that violates the rules?
(the discussion in this thread seems to be heading away from that conclusion)
Biggest clear cut rules mistake?

The guy who thought that [W] included his enhancement bonus. I was wondering why his first level defender was doing as much as/more damage than my second level striker. ^^
Yah, you only get the enhancement bonus on Weapon keyword attacks.

;)


-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
Can someone reference where that violates the rules?
(the discussion in this thread seems to be heading away from that conclusion)

It isn't abundantly clear cut. I'm not sure why a DM would rule otherwise, though. Quarry isn't as good as an example as taking a move action. Example: I use Rain of Blows on my enemy, killing him with the first blow - can I then move next to someone else, despite there being powers which explicitly allow you to move?

I don't think that should be allowed.
Originally Posted by dkay807 View Post
Rangers designating targets in between twin strike attacks rather than prior to making attack rolls (i.e. "I use twin strike. I hit this guy first. Does he drop? If so, I hit this other guy").

This is an incorrect interpertation of the rules.

Twin Strike goes through the Making an Attack section twice. Every Multi Attack power non burst/blast power is resolved by making an attack roll and calculating damage then if the power allows changing targets and making an attack roll and calculating damage.


You were previously using disruptive strike correctly as well. Your current rendition is incorrect. Also many gm's also roll damage at the same time they roll to hit and a call of damage against a player does not prevent you from using the power.

4e is not a race to rudely talk over others or a game of gotcha and never should be.
Twin Strike goes through the Making an Attack section twice. Every Multi Attack power non burst/blast power is resolved by making an attack roll and calculating damage then if the power allows changing targets and making an attack roll and calculating damage.

There's arguments for both sides. Which means it doesn't belong in this thread.
If there's interest, I'd be willing to sticky this thread, or if you wanted to split this into the "actual" compendium and keep this as a related "discussion" thread I could sticky the thread, and mark this discussion thread as do-not-archive (so both stay "live" indefinately).
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