RPGA - Bundle Rewards

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Can anyone tell me what adventure(s) one would be able to find Dwarven Armor +1?
If you save your cash, take one "found item " at first level, and go for extra gold every other adventure, you should be able to just buy some after your 5th adventure: 75 + 125 + 125 + 125 + 125 = 575 gp, more than enough for +1 dwarven armor, which costs 520 gp.
I just thought i remembered an adventure that had the dwarven armor in the game end bundle.

Is there any list of bundle items per adventure?

Thx,
Roger
IIRc i think there was one from the GenCon batch, but IIRC it was high tier from what i was told. Which doesn't make much sense for a 2nd level item...

There were some poeple from the yahoo group wanting to make a spoiler mailinglist or website. Can't remember which. I'm not one for spoilers so I haven't paid much attention. Sorry.
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No module that I've seen has +1 Dwarven Armor. One module has +2 Dwarven Armor on the high level version. But that's a level 7 or 8 magic item so you have to be higher level to get it.
I am pretty sure that "Flames or Initiation" has Dwarven Armor.
I can tell you for sure. CORE 1-01 "Inheritance" has it for sure.

-SYB
I can tell you for sure. CORE 1-01 "Inheritance" has it for sure.

-SYB

Delver's and Dwarven are different things. Don't be so sure.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Delver's and Dwarven are different things. Don't be so sure.

It is possible that I am opposed to metagaming LFR and that I was intentionally untruthful. It is also possible I misread Delver's for Dwarven. So many possibilities. I'll keep the truth to myself.

-SYB
There is a Yahoo! Group which is being used to compile spoilers for LFR modules.

Personally, I don't really like to be spoiled - I'm happy to replay or play after GMing if it's the only way I'll get a game, or if it helps other people get games, but it's not my preferred way of doing things - so I'm afraid I don't have a link to the group as I've not joined it, and I don't know how successful it's being.

You'll find information about it in the archives of the Yahoo! Group LivingFR and there may be a link in the links section of that group.

Have fun, and I hope you find your item!

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It is possible that I am opposed to metagaming LFR

Fair. I'm opposed to metagaming LFR (and think a couple minor changes to the system would discourage a lot of it) - I'm just also opposed to being untruthful. So, I'd rather you were just mistaken
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
My first game was flames of initiation and I took the +2 Dwarven Armor bundle so I am sure it is there. That said, since then the rules have been explained to me and I find out I couldn't have take the armor as I am still first level so I am stuck with a full slot and no gear. Not the end of the world, and I was read the bundles so this may be there and I didn't see it, but for newbs like me a big honking warning that the low levels can't take that bundle would have been nice. Before I get the inevitable RTFM, I did, but I failed to notice that rule, didn't know +2 items were higher level and was generally newbish. I pay a price in no loots. Anyhow, yes it is Dwarven armor in Initiation, but it is +2.
I imagine you not only can choose a different treasure bundle now _but have to_. You played it high tier at 1st level? (it's only available at high tier, since no one in low tier could take it)
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
There are modules with Dwarven armour. You will have to find them yourself. (My personal metagaming opinion).

Can we get a ruling on this sort of stuff? you can replay modules, but actively posting which mods have 'the best stuff' seems a bit much...
Maybe it was H1 or the pre-release game ah well - wait till your all my age - and your memories start failing

I'll find it again - one of these days
Why make a rule about people learning where to find what item? We cannot prevent it in anyway (it happened a LOT in LG as well), especially with the replay option. In fact, knowing what items to find in what adventure could hardly constitute a spoiler.

Personally I certainly don't care whether a player decides to play a particular adventure to get a specific item as long as that player is having fun and the rest at the table does as well.
I imagine you not only can choose a different treasure bundle now _but have to_. You played it high tier at 1st level? (it's only available at high tier, since no one in low tier could take it)

Yep, but that would mean an appeal as the DM reported the bundle I took. The guys at Wizards have better things to do than to worry about my first level magic item slot, I will just treat it as a dead slot and not use the item ever or sell it. It never happened...

To the best of my knowledge we played the low tier settings and thus the reward shouldn't have been available to me. However, it was the DMs first LFR game, it was my first LFR game, this is why I said it should have been in big honking letters that the bottom bundles are for higher levels who have run the slot as a high level session only. No big deal for me, but I suspect this is a pretty common mistake and given the strict nature of treasure allotment one that should be explicitly warned for.
it should have been in big honking letters that the bottom bundles are for higher levels who have run the slot as a high level session only. No big deal for me, but I suspect this is a pretty common mistake and given the strict nature of treasure allotment one that should be explicitly warned for.

In the rewards section of every mod, right after each item, it indicates (low-tier only) or (high-tier only).

Please remind your DM to read the rewards section more carefully in the future. The information isn't hidden.

Dan Anderson @EpicUthrac
Total Confusion www.totalcon.com
LFR Calimshan Writing Director
LFR Epic Writing Director

LFR Myth Drannor Writing Director

Well, it would appear that my memory is at best average - while running the H1 module (non-RPGA), I seem to remember giving away to a player a +1 dwarven set of mail.

The best i can tell from other threads is that the module can be run for player points, but RPGA characters can not keep items, XP, or gold awarded from this adventure.

Such strange controversy over such a simple thing as my memory failing.
Yep, but that would mean an appeal as the DM reported the bundle I took. The guys at Wizards have better things to do than to worry about my first level magic item slot, I will just treat it as a dead slot and not use the item ever or sell it. It never happened...

That's your choice. However, there's an appeal process for a reason (simply because things like this DO happen), and it's there to be used.

If you prefer not to use it, such is your right, but it isn't neccesary.

To the best of my knowledge we played the low tier settings and thus the reward shouldn't have been available to me. However, it was the DMs first LFR game, it was my first LFR game, this is why I said it should have been in big honking letters that the bottom bundles are for higher levels who have run the slot as a high level session only. No big deal for me, but I suspect this is a pretty common mistake and given the strict nature of treasure allotment one that should be explicitly warned for.

As others have pointed out, each "limited" bundle in the adventure rewards will state "high-only" or "low-only", plus the directions for how to determin high/low and why there are two values for GP/XP are all listed at the beginning of every module.

Additionally, players and DMs alike should read the Character Creation Guide where it lists the limitation of not taking found items higher than your level +4.

Can these details be overlooked by new players? Yes - it happens. Nobody's going to get strung up for it.

However, the information is in at least three places. It simply takes paying a little attention to catch. Same as any other rules. Much like the surprise many players have at finding their first level gets their con SCORE added to hit points instead of con BONUS, or how a Healing Surge is different from Second Wind.
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However, the information is in at least three places. It simply takes paying a little attention to catch. Same as any other rules. Much like the surprise many players have at finding their first level gets their con SCORE added to hit points instead of con BONUS, or how a Healing Surge is different from Second Wind.

Well it's not only a matter of how often the information is presented, but how clear it is, and if it is presented at the right spot.

If the reward section would state:

Rewards: For all players

bla

Rewards: Only for players of level 4 up

bla

The error probably wouldn't have happened.

However, one of the most difficult rules I have ever read (and I played ASL and Starfleet Battles) where the rules about the magic item whishlist alocation and respeccing.

I was constantly thinking to myself "Wow, what is that exactly for, how is this supposed to work and what do they really want to accomplish with this..."

;)

Ceterum censeo capsum rubeum esse delendam

However, one of the most difficult rules I have ever read (and I played ASL and Starfleet Battles) where the rules about the magic item whishlist alocation and respeccing.

I was constantly thinking to myself "Wow, what is that exactly for, how is this supposed to work and what do they really want to accomplish with this..."

;)

You aren't alone...
If the reward section would state:

Rewards: For all players

bla

Rewards: Only for players of level 4 up

Doesn't work that way.

From what I have seen, the item bundles are listed in the following order, usually:

Bundle 1 - low-tier only
Bundle 2 - low-tier only
Bundle 3
Bundle 4
Bundle 5 - high-tier only
Bundle 6 - high-tier only
Potion option
Extra gold option

It, really, cannot be any more clear.

After all, if you are going to be playing even half-way smart, you are going to be spending a few minutes looking up the stats on the items, so you should notice the level listed for the item, since it is clearly part of the description these days.

Also, if you look around, you'll find that there is no restriction, other than the tier-banding (1st-4th level) itself, that a 1st level PC couldn't play in a high-tier game, nor that a 4th level PC couldn't play in a low-tier game...
Yep, but that would mean an appeal as the DM reported the bundle I took. The guys at Wizards have better things to do than to worry about my first level magic item slot, I will just treat it as a dead slot and not use the item ever or sell it. It never happened...

To the best of my knowledge we played the low tier settings and thus the reward shouldn't have been available to me. However, it was the DMs first LFR game, it was my first LFR game, this is why I said it should have been in big honking letters that the bottom bundles are for higher levels who have run the slot as a high level session only. No big deal for me, but I suspect this is a pretty common mistake and given the strict nature of treasure allotment one that should be explicitly warned for.

Or - and this is a crazy concept - you take your log sheet and write down the correct bundle with a note that you _can't_ have taken the one you did because the DM made a mistake.

I'll also note that the approval process is totally usable, even if it takes a little while.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
I hear some guys talking about a list where all items per adventure are noted, could someone give me a link?

Iam lvl 3 now, and still didn't choose a magic item. I've been waiting all these sessions for a +2 armor or a +1 black iron armor which might not even be available the RPGA adventures
So a list would be helpful to know what to expect, and not to wait on items you can't even get.... (Iam paladin btw)
Or - and this is a crazy concept - you take your log sheet and write down the correct bundle with a note that you _can't_ have taken the one you did because the DM made a mistake.

I concur. Basic principle -- any correction that brings a PC into alignment with D&D, RPGA, and LFR rules is GOOD and does not need approval to do. It is simply common sense.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Doesn't work that way.

From what I have seen, the item bundles are listed in the following order, usually:

Bundle 1 - low-tier only
Bundle 2 - low-tier only
Bundle 3
Bundle 4
Bundle 5 - high-tier only
Bundle 6 - high-tier only
Potion option
Extra gold option

It, really, cannot be any more clear.

After all, if you are going to be playing even half-way smart, you are going to be spending a few minutes looking up the stats on the items, so you should notice the level listed for the item, since it is clearly part of the description these days.

Also, if you look around, you'll find that there is no restriction, other than the tier-banding (1st-4th level) itself, that a 1st level PC couldn't play in a high-tier game, nor that a 4th level PC couldn't play in a low-tier game...

I'll take the item versus fifty GP anyday and much of the time the item is worth more than the GP provided.
I'll take the item versus fifty GP anyday and much of the time the item is worth more than the GP provided.

Sure, but you only get one item/level. Also, the found items are your only source of items that are a higher level then you.
Taking them to sell is a huge waste. If you don't find something that clicks with your character, save the slot for another couple levels.
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...
Bundle 1 - low-tier only
Bundle 2 - low-tier only
Bundle 3
Bundle 4
Bundle 5 - high-tier only
Bundle 6 - high-tier only
...

It, really, cannot be any more clear.

Well uh, after TSR messed around with the word "level" we now start to mess around with the word "tier". "tier" should be used only to indicate the actual "tiers" in the game: Heroic, Paragorn, Epic.

I would say, this version is more clear:

Bundle 1 - character level 1-4
Bundle 2 - character level 1-4
Bundle 3 - character level 2-4
Bundle 4 - character level 2-4
Bundle 5 - character level 3-4
Bundle 6 - character level 3-4

Ceterum censeo capsum rubeum esse delendam

Yes, we need to standardize on some terminology.

WotC has denotated Tiers to be Heroic (1-10), Paragon (11-20) and Epic (21-30).

Mr Tulach refers the the level ranges or bands 1-4, 4-7 and 7-10, and some of us have taken to calling them, respectively, low-heroic, mid-heroic, and high-heroic. (unique and consistent)

Inside a given adventure, the players may play low range (down) or high range (up), within the respective level band. This terminology has not really been standardized yet.

The treasure bundles are not tied that narrowly to PC levels. In the low-range only rewards, my interpretation is that treasure only suited to the low range PCs is offered, treasure suited to both in the unspecified treasure bundles, and treasure only suited to the high range PCs in the high range only bundles. Because the various LFR admins are all relatively new to 4E and LFR, there is some variation in what we provide in distribution of treasure. Each of the 12 Writing Directors and 3 Globals have some leeway to make choices within the Writers Guidelines.

For instance, in a level 1-4 adventure, magic items of L2-3 might only be offered in a low only bundle, magic items of L4-6 might be offered in a general treasure bundle, and magic items of L7-8 might be offered in a high treasure bundle only. However, opinions vary among admins.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Suggestion: Standard and Advanced (Difficulty)

That is to say, you might play an Advanced High Heroic mod if you were a 9th level character. If you're not upping the difficulty, you can either say standard or not say anything at all. That is "Okay, I'll make a new character for your low heroic CORE-1 game"
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
It's fine to say that items are low-tier or high-tier, but the way bundles are listed is still counter intuitive. The first mod I ran offered a magic weapon +2 as a reward, without noting tier. The party, and I, took that to mean it was available to anyone playing in the adventure, and two PCs opted for that bundle.

We have since noticed that a magic weapon +2 is a level 6 item, so we now know to look up the level of all items in the reward bundles before picking one. It's a pain, but unless they start posting the level in the bundle, it's going to continue to be a problem.
It would probably be reasonable to have a minimum level listed with each item, so it's clear for DMs.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Sure, but you only get one item/level. Also, the found items are your only source of items that are a higher level then you.
Taking them to sell is a huge waste. If you don't find something that clicks with your character, save the slot for another couple levels.

I've been lucky with regards to the Items I've found and your right about taking items just to sell. I was speaking about when the option to take an item comes along which from first to third is fairly frequent seriously between Haunted Hills and the Core Special a PC can jump from first to third and be a couple of modes from fourth. That's three level slot's worth of items just for playing two mods it's amazing I'll be fifth after Haunted Halls and I still haven't picked a fourth level slot item hopefully it will have good bundle access.
ok...

good news. +1 Black Iron armor IS available in one mod. No, I won't tell you which one.

bad news. Except for previously mentioned +2 Dwarven Armor, only other option was in one of the Preview mods (Dwarven Plate)... but I don't think preview mods count for characters. Or do they?
Well despite my mistake the gods have smiled on me and in the new rules I can keep the +2 armor, just can't use till level 3. That is very nice of them, but I still think the packets could be better labeled. Still, I will carry on a slightly happier fighter.
Well despite my mistake the gods have smiled on me and in the new rules I can keep the +2 armor, just can't use till level 3. That is very nice of them, but I still think the packets could be better labeled. Still, I will carry on a slightly happier fighter.

well, not exactly. The +2 DA was for the high level version. If you played the high level version, you can use it at level 3.

If you played the low level version, you'd still need to 'replace' it with something else in the mod - you should not have been able to take it at all (not available at low level of play)
Recommendation for a rules change:

As it currently stands (as I understand it): If I gain a +1 item as a found item, I gain access to all higher level version of that item and later, when I am high enough level and have enough money, I can upgrade that item to a higher level version of the same item.

Recommendation: The same process should work in reverse. If granted access to an item that it too high level for your character, why can you not take a lower level version of that item?

In other words - if finding a +1 whatever gives you access to the higher level versions of whatever, why doesn't finding a higher level one count as giving you the ability to choose a lower level version?

So if you find +2 dwarven armor (for example) in the adventure but are not yet high enough level to take +2 dwarven armor, you can instead take +1 dwarven armor (think of it as downgrading rather than upgrading the armor you found, except of course you don't get the cost difference).

Carl
Recommendation for a rules change:

As it currently stands (as I understand it): If I gain a +1 item as a found item, I gain access to all higher level version of that item and later, when I am high enough level and have enough money, I can upgrade that item to a higher level version of the same item.

Recommendation: The same process should work in reverse. If granted access to an item that it too high level for your character, why can you not take a lower level version of that item?

In other words - if finding a +1 whatever gives you access to the higher level versions of whatever, why doesn't finding a higher level one count as giving you the ability to choose a lower level version?

So if you find +2 dwarven armor (for example) in the adventure but are not yet high enough level to take +2 dwarven armor, you can instead take +1 dwarven armor (think of it as downgrading rather than upgrading the armor you found, except of course you don't get the cost difference).

Carl

In the current rules (CCG v1.7) you can now take the item that's "too high" - you just can't use it until you're of an appropriate level.

However, I do like the idea of using, say, +2 armor (level 6 item) as +1 armor at level 1 - and having it just "upgrade" itself to it's true level/bonus when you've leveled enough to fully exploit it's full capabilities.

Hopefully an admin will take note and pass this along to Chris for consideration.

Of course, I'd still want items to support having a minimum level - IE Surge Armor doesn't have a +1 version, so if you find it and you're too low to use it, too bad.
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I'd be comfortable with being allowed to opt for a lower level version of the item (not generally a good choice) but allowing it to upgrde automatically and for free is too nice imo.
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