So who do Drow now worship???

164 posts / 0 new
Last post
'Cause it's not Elistraee any more...

And that also begs the question - are PC drow (as per the LFPG preview allowed in LFR) actually still Drow, or are they now Corellon's "dark elves", as per canon events?

Any idea? Any information?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

there are no "racial" gods anymore, for example Moradin is not the god of dwarves, he is the god of craft.

so the simple answer is you follow whatever god suits your character, if you were intent on following Elistraee, perhaps an incarnation of Sune might be appropriate.

and i think the drow /Corellon's dark elves difference might be more distinct in the players guide next month

--Josh Elliott
-Just a nobody
The FRCG states that Lloth presides over the drow and demands fealty from them and that she takes "Vengeful notice" of any drow that turns their back to her.
In FR there are still racial Gods. Moradin still created the dwarves who revere him, Orcs still worship Gruumsh, Corellon is still head of the Seldarine (elvish pantheon). It's all in the FRCG.

Now there isn't anythign sayign that a Dwarf can't worship Tempus if he so desires. Or a Drow could worship Corellon. Nothign stopping that.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
The Drow as a race worship Lolth. Lolth was pretty bloodthirsty about eliminating the competition. She does not share well. No, I don't know what happened to the former few good NPC Drow.

Drow PC worship whomever the player likes (LFR and alignment restrictions still apply).

What the 4E FRCG did was remove any racial designation in the book for the deities which used to exist. So there is not a separate elven, dwarven, halfling, gnomish, etc., etc., pantheon. Are they really blended, or just not highlighted?

For instance, in 4E there is nothing that says Dwarves must worship a dwarven god, and only dwarves worship a dwarven god.

Keith
whose first LFR PC is a male dwarven paladin of Selune :D
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Selune - an ally of Eilistraee since start, if I remember well - have similarities to the Dark Maiden and surely is popular with the better-hearted dark elves. I can see the clergy of Eilistraee turnign her en masses.




Maybe in a distant future, there will be 'cultural pantheons' with similarities to how Birthright treated the religions, I heard....
We should probably just work on this on our own and make that a kind of generic default deity for Drow.

Selune works for me.
What the 4E FRCG did was remove any racial designation in the book for the deities which used to exist. So there is not a separate elven, dwarven, halfling, gnomish, etc., etc., pantheon. Are they really blended, or just not highlighted?

For instance, in 4E there is nothing that says Dwarves must worship a dwarven god, and only dwarves worship a dwarven god.

That doesn't mean a pantheon doesn't exist. The entries for Corellon and Moradin still mention the Seldarine and the Mordinsammen. There just aren't any racial restrictions anymore on who can worship what deity. That doesn't mean a pantheon doesn't exist anymore. The dwarven gods are still dwarven, the gnomish gods are still gnomes, the elven gods are still elves. All a pantheon is is a collection of Gods with a shared mythology.

And before anyoen tries to argue that it's all one mythology, each of the races still have their own creation myths about their Gods.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
-Dark Elves were retconned in AGHotR to be Green Elves. Thus, the Drow who reverted to their forms before The Descent become Green Elves once more. Statistically, they are 'Elves'.

There just aren't any racial restrictions anymore on who can worship what deity.

-There never were. There were Humans who worship the Seldarine, Gnomes who worshiped Gond (A Human deity), and so on and so on.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
Keith
whose first LFR PC is a male dwarven paladin of Selune :D

I'd point out that Selune specifically had Dwarves listed as worshipers in both 2nd and 3rd edition as well.

One of the few human deities to do so in print.

:D


-karma
who had a dwarven crusader (later paladin) of Selune in LC
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
For 'good' Drow, the obvious replacement (to me) for Eilistraee seems to be Selune. Corellon is an option for drow that wish to seek their 'elven' roots, but I expect most Corellon priests won't be too eager to deal with drow. Other deities that seem proper are Tempus (for those who value combat) or Sune (for those with the right looks). Their exarchs might work as well.
Other dieties seem (to me) less intersting to drow, but it is up to the individual.
House Huruafair (an non-evil East Rift drow/crinti house, which migth become an adventure company) mostly worship Selune and Tempus, with some turning to Tymora.
I strongly encourage all surface-dwelling male drow to join the newly-forming Cult of Vhaeraun (to be formed when adventuring companies can be created). After his death and reincarnation as a mortal, Vhaeraun decided that trying to peaceably interact with the surface world was the best way for the male drow to overthrow Lolth's matriarchy. If interested in joining the cult, please PM me.

(For reference, this "Vhaeraun" is my second LFR PC, and he genuinely believes that he is the reincarnation of Vhaeraun, and he's seeking to become a deity once more. Whether or not this is found to be true or false, only events in adventures/novels will play out...)
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
Oh by Tempus.
Do you males still believe you can do better than us women?
I mean - not that you can't be useful, and Lolth priestesses can kiss my well shaped behind, so all the best in cutting them down.
But how often do I have to wack you over the head before you realize that us women are just so much more smart, tough, and fit to rule?
Ilharessen zhannil alurl.
Now sign up here, and I will show you how to hold a blade properly.

Tesh Huruafair,
House Guard
Bane may be an interesting option for dark-hearted warrior males...
Not in LFR he isn't.
Selune - an ally of Eilistraee since start, if I remember well - have similarities to the Dark Maiden and surely is popular with the better-hearted dark elves. I can see the clergy of Eilistraee turnign her en masses.
QUOTE]

I was totally leaning this way. Glad I did. I am not a huge Loremaster of the Realms, so didn't know of any relationship between Eilistraee and Selune.

But it still makes sense.

For the Lady of Silver!

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

For 'good' Drow, the obvious replacement (to me) for Eilistraee seems to be Selune. Corellon is an option for drow that wish to seek their 'elven' roots, but I expect most Corellon priests won't be too eager to deal with drow. Other deities that seem proper are Tempus (for those who value combat) or Sune (for those with the right looks). Their exarchs might work as well.
Other dieties seem (to me) less intersting to drow, but it is up to the individual.
House Huruafair (an non-evil East Rift drow/crinti house, which migth become an adventure company) mostly worship Selune and Tempus, with some turning to Tymora.

Tell me more of this House Huruafair... (my PC is from the East Rift region, even if I'm not...)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

The Huruafir family consists of a strange mix of humans, drow, and half-elves (most crinti - haf drow). The family fled prosecution in Dambrath decades ago, when the alliance of some members to 'hostile' forces (Eilistraee) became known.
The family allied themselves with the dwarves in East Rift. Not convinced of the true motivations fo the family of a hostle border nation, the family was placed under a powerful geas, which ties their loyalty to that of the dawrves and compels all members of the family to protect the Rift community.
Over the years, the family has displayed loyalty and zeal in their duty, and have grown to become respected and even (up to a point) trusted. They are known as effective, though ruthless, mercenaries.
Rumors hold that the geas only applies to the first seven generations, and that the family's most recent generation of children is free from the geas.

The Huruafair are intended as a mostly PC-driven family of mercenaries. Popular classes are fighter, rogue, warlord, and warlock.
Races include human, half-elf, and the elf races (drow, eladrin, elf).
Most 'true' fey are are adopted or married into the family, though sometimes the children of crinti and true fey show exceptional racial abilities (i.e. display the racial aspecs of a elf or drow, but still considered half-elves by other elves) .
Alignment is mostly unaligned. Good alignment exist, but the family prefers to stay neutral so it can best do their duties. Favorite deities among the Huruafair are Tempus (for his neutral stance), The Red Knight, and Selune (who many see as a replacement for the originally worshipped Eilistraee). Moradin is also included in the House shrines. Due to the common worship of Selune and Tempus, some warriors invoke luck through Tyche, a strange amalgamation of the faiths of Beshaba and Tymora. This particular faith has no clerics (since Tyche is not actually a deity).

My PC Tesh is a fifth generation female unaligned Crinti paladin of Tempus. She is a member of the House Guard.

Adventure Company: the Huruafair House Guard
Most see the House Guard as a group of bodyguards for the House's matriarch, but it is less simple than that.
Even though Huruafair has little political clout, the family does have an influence. The matriarch takes the duty of the family to East Rift seriously, and uses her own judgement in what will benefit the Rift - more than one dwarf powermonger has seen a plot crumble, discovering too late that the family's geas is to protect the region and its people - not the ones holding power.
The means to do this are the House Guard, which not only serve to protect the family, but to run missions around the Sea of Fallen Stars (and even beyond) to better the position of East Rift - by extending influence, fighting enemies, or incurring favors. In most cases, the true goal of a mission are unknown to the guards. Only the Matriarch knows what benefits are reapt.

Requirements (stricter than actual membership of the family):
Name: Must carry the Huruafair name (may be adopted)
Race: human, half-elf, elf, eladrin, drow
Region: East Rift
Oath: Swear fealty to the Huruafair family and the East Rift.
Not in LFR he isn't.

If one is of the more militaristic, fascistic kind, 'X uber alies' kind, yes. Not common to drow, but...
If one is of the more militaristic, fascistic kind, 'X uber alies' kind, yes. Not common to drow, but...

I think what Gomez meant was that PC drow can't worship Bane due to him being an evil deity.
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
Well, personally, I worship Corellon, thanks for asking.

In respect to alignment restrictions: Only clerics and paladins need to meet the alignment restrictions. I can still worship Corellon if I am unaligned, even if he is good in LFR =3
But in LFR, a PC can't worship an evil deity. It's a campaign rule.
I think what Gomez meant was that PC drow can't worship Bane due to him being an evil deity.

Oh yes, forgot that. Thank you for shakin' me some.
Since the Drow PC has had some revelation/change (or family that did so), isn't a typical Drow (individualism), may have traveled from the UnderDark (a little lucky perhaps), and is now an Adventurer, wouldn't Avandra be right up their alley?
Since the Drow PC has had some revelation/change (or family that did so), isn't a typical Drow (individualism), may have traveled from the UnderDark (a little lucky perhaps), and is now an Adventurer, wouldn't Avandra be right up their alley?

FR, not Core; unless it exist now in FR, that would be more Tymora.
You could always be part of a cult trying to bring Eilistraee back.

That's one thing that can be said about the new Realms: resurrecting dead gods... it's not just for evil anymore!
You could always be part of a cult trying to bring Eilistraee back.

That's one thing that can be said about the new Realms: resurrecting dead gods... it's not just for evil anymore!

Boo Elilstraee cults... yay good-aligned Vhaeraun cults! (Seriously, join my PC's cult!)
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
Boo Elilstraee cults... yay good-aligned Vhaeraun cults! (Seriously, join my PC's cult!)

her Brother is dead, too - oppose Lolth, and.... Anyway, he was just a wiser evil.
But in LFR, a PC can't worship an evil deity. It's a campaign rule.

Not to be a butthead, but where in the rules does it say that? I couldn't find it in the character creation guide.
It's because it's in the Core Books. It says to ask your DM if you can worship an evil deity. Tulach and the admins have said no. This isn't any different from previous living campaigns.

Personally, I don't think they shouldn't even have to put that put that in the campaign rules. If you're not evil (and you aren't allowed to play evil characters) then why would you worship an evil god?
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Because you're a drow who has decided not to turn his back on Lloth but has decided to follow her dictates in another fashion?

Oh, and I won't be the lil' rules cheeser and note that it says "Clerics" and not "characters" that need to steer clear of evil dieties. I hate those guys

Really, what would be the issue with a non-aligned person worshipping an evil diety as long as he kept it to himself? But I will ask our Senior DM at my RPGA meetings if I can do it or not.

But yes, I will be a butthead and until said rules are in the campaign rulebook, and if my DM says it's good, I will have my drow ranger worship Lloth.
Because you're a drow who has decided not to turn his back on Lloth but has decided to follow her dictates in another fashion?

Oh, and I won't be the lil' rules cheeser and note that it says "Clerics" and not "characters" that need to steer clear of evil dieties. I hate those guys

Really, what would be the issue with a non-aligned person worshipping an evil diety as long as he kept it to himself? But I will ask our Senior DM at my RPGA meetings if I can do it or not.

But yes, I will be a butthead and until said rules are in the campaign rulebook, and if my DM says it's good, I will have my drow ranger worship Lloth.

There is a document called "Characters in the Realms" floating around (the admins posted them prior to GenCon since it didn't make it on the website for some reason) that discusses deity worship in the Realms and expressly forbids PC worship of evil deities. Most of the LFR Yahoo groups have them in the Files sections.

Is it widely and easily available? Sadly, not yet. However, I've heard from multiple regional admins and at least one global admin that yes, it is correct for LFR.

Even with that not being the case, I recommend not rocking the boat in that manner. There's just no benefit to being "that guy".
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
Because you're a drow who has decided not to turn his back on Lloth but has decided to follow her dictates in another fashion?

because then you're still evil. Maybe unaligned from a mechanics standpoint, but evil at the core. There's nothing lightness and fluffy bunnies about Lolth and her demands. There isn't anything that can be construed as non-evil about her and her dictates.

Oh, and I won't be the lil' rules cheeser and note that it says "Clerics" and not "characters" that need to steer clear of evil dieties. I hate those guys

Don't forget Paladins...

But yes, I will be a butthead and until said rules are in the campaign rulebook, and if my DM says it's good, I will have my drow ranger worship Lloth.

As long as I can officially call you Butthead. (Can I be Beavis? He was cooler anyway... :P) Anyway as John pointed out they're in the Characters in the Realms document. I forgot about that little document.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Not to be a butthead, but where in the rules does it say that? I couldn't find it in the character creation guide.

Here:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1073623
Cool. Once the doc is in the official place, I'll be sure to follow it. As of now, my senior DM has decided to 'reserve judgement' until there's an official ruling on it in the rules. Which translated to I could do it as long as it didn't interfere or hamper the other player's fun or their character's goals and that I would stop if the rules told me I couldn't.

Worshipping an evil diety does not make you evil. If that was the case, then they would not have put into the rulebook that unaligned characters can worship evil dieties - they would have said that only evil and CE characters could worship them. Lloth is about the drow race and promoting them and their agenda above all others. I could quote a few LG gods that were the same way (especially having been in the Pale Meta-org all these years).

And, please, feel free to call me butthead. I'm a taurus so I tend to become stubborn about things. ;)
And, please, feel free to call me butthead. I'm a taurus so I tend to become stubborn about things. ;)

Well, I won't call you a butthead, but I will point out that by playing a drow ranger, you've already elected to place a big bullseye on the front and back of your armor -- worshipping Lolth just means in glows brightly day or night, and cannot be hidden by any means... :evillaugh
Fine by me. Guess I'll haveta *gasp* roleplay with it.

Oh, and I've changed my mind, gonna be a drow wizard instead. Don't want people callin' me a 'D' wannabe ;)
Lloth is about the drow race and promoting them and their agenda above all others.

Yeah, which is... hmm.... what do they call it? Oh yeah, GENOCIDE!!!

If you're unaligned and promoting Genocide...

And, please, feel free to call me butthead. I'm a taurus so I tend to become stubborn about things. ;)

Yeah, so is my wife. I have knock-down drag out arguments with her too. :P
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Okey, I guess that Lloth is a little roughter than Pholtus. She wants to kill everyone, Pholtus just wants to force them to worship him and if they don't, brainwash them so that they do.

But, then again, I believe most people would want to wipe out the drow so fair is fair. ;)
Oh by Tempus.
Do you males still believe you can do better than us women?
I mean - not that you can't be useful, and Lolth priestesses can kiss my well shaped behind, so all the best in cutting them down.
But how often do I have to wack you over the head before you realize that us women are just so much more smart, tough, and fit to rule?
Ilharessen zhannil alurl.
Now sign up here, and I will show you how to hold a blade properly.

Tesh Huruafair,
House Guard

I do believe that the good lady means to say "How often do I have to whack you over the head before you realize that we women are smarter, tougher, and just so much more fit to rule?". Then again, it may just be my inferior male brain that makes comprehension of the statement difficult.

~Irrad~ Professional Cynic
Cool. Once the doc is in the official place, I'll be sure to follow it. As of now, my senior DM has decided to 'reserve judgement' until there's an official ruling on it in the rules. Which translated to I could do it as long as it didn't interfere or hamper the other player's fun or their character's goals and that I would stop if the rules told me I couldn't.

Worshipping an evil diety does not make you evil. If that was the case, then they would not have put into the rulebook that unaligned characters can worship evil dieties - they would have said that only evil and CE characters could worship them. Lloth is about the drow race and promoting them and their agenda above all others. I could quote a few LG gods that were the same way (especially having been in the Pale Meta-org all these years).

And, please, feel free to call me butthead. I'm a taurus so I tend to become stubborn about things. ;)

I fail to understand your reasoning that an LFR document must be in some official place to be official. The "Characters in the Realms" document was written by Chris Tulach and, at his direction due to some issue with posting on the RPGA website, distributed as a public document by the LFR Campaign Staff. That does not make it less legal, even if slightly harder to find. It is posted on most of the public LFR yahoo lists.

No LFR PC may choose an evil deity for their patron. If you have DMs who are allowing you to ignore the rule, then shame on them.

At some point, I think Chris will fold the unique information from that document (and the FRPG Preview) into an update of the CCG, perhaps after the FRPG has become available.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
Sign In to post comments