My Fears

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I am sure someone (many people) has (have) spent more time on this issue then me. I'm hoping they can address me fears.

1)With all adventures available everywhere (no need to travel), few interactives (no incentive to travel) and far more adventures realeased each year then most people can play in a year (eating mods is inconsequencial) anyone with a home group will play there

2)With all my friends playing at home groups cons will become boring. I'll eventually have no place to play except online.

3)Home groups will eventually start using house rules, making rewards more interesting to their players, and other such shenanigans. Then if the group breaks up all the players will find their characters unportable.

This says nothing of the fact that going to a con requires 1 book per person while a home group requires 1 book per group or worse still they will use pdfs only.

So what am I missing that will ensure the RPGA is still valuable to WotC (and me the guy with no home group) in a few years?

Thanks
I am sure someone (many people) has (have) spent more time on this issue then me. I'm hoping they can address me fears.

1)With all adventures available everywhere (no need to travel), few interactives (no incentive to travel) and far more adventures realeased each year then most people can play in a year (eating mods is inconsequencial) anyone with a home group will play there

2)With all my friends playing at home groups cons will become boring. I'll eventually have no place to play except online.

3)Home groups will eventually start using house rules, making rewards more interesting to their players, and other such shenanigans. Then if the group breaks up all the players will find their characters unportable.

This says nothing of the fact that going to a con requires 1 book per person while a home group requires 1 book per group or worse still they will use pdfs only.

So what am I missing that will ensure the RPGA is still valuable to WotC (and me the guy with no home group) in a few years?

Thanks

I was rarely able to play D&D during 3rd edition due to quickly disappearing game groups and I couldn't even REACH a con because of my location. Frankly, I'm happy that there will be online play, so that people like me can actually play the game. On top of which, your claim about house rulings and the like would have no effect on the setting because the rules for the LFR campaign are preset. I guess they could potentially falsify any submitted documentation to their benefit, but that isn't going to give them anything more than the maximum allotment for a given adventure.

I'm sure everything will be just fine.
I won't argue that some folks won't go to cons because interactives and out-of-region play won't be around as draws but, ultimately, I think the majority of the con goers were going because they enjoy playing at cons and being able to get in 3 mod in a day.

If the new game draws some new faces to the campaign, some percentage will find there way to cons. I suspect that convention play will dip at first while overall LFR play will surpass LG play frequency due to alot more home and store play. What happens from there will be up to the quality of play and organization.
I share your fears.

For LG I (and several people in my area) traveled all across the country to play in different regions and one-time interactives. I will not be doing that for LFR.

The structure of LFR is going to hurt cons, it's just a matter of how badly.

I sure hope WoTC knows what they are doing.
I was rarely able to play D&D during 3rd edition due to quickly disappearing game groups and I couldn't even REACH a con because of my location. Frankly, I'm happy that there will be online play, so that people like me can actually play the game. On top of which, your claim about house rulings and the like would have no effect on the setting because the rules for the LFR campaign are preset. I guess they could potentially falsify any submitted documentation to their benefit, but that isn't going to give them anything more than the maximum allotment for a given adventure.

I'm sure everything will be just fine.

There has been online play for years. I'm know there are preset rules. I worry that home groups won't follow them-because they get into the mindset where they can adapt the rules as they see fit, they misinterperet rules, or simply they expect a play experience that doesn't mesh with other groups. I've seen this happen even in groups that played with triads. I think its ineviatble for groups with any degree of insularness. I hope it isn't big enough to make people with only home group experience unable to easily port to new groups or cons.
Having been quite active in the Legacy of the Green Regent, Mark of Heroes, and Xendrick Expeditions RPGA campaigns, none of which involved regional play, I'd say your fears are quite unfounded.

With no convention within a six-hour drive for here, playing in other Living Greyhawk regions has never been practical for me. And while I've tried to start a home campaign, most of my gaming friends didn't like the region of Ket, and thus nevered even bothered to make characters. Every adventure being available to everyone will certainly make it that more people join the campaign, despite the fact that they may not like the region they're associated with. And people who used to travel to conventions will certainly still do so, if only for the con experience itself. Convention gaming table will still fill up quite easily. I doubt cons would become boring because of changes to a Living campaign.

As for the possibility for house rules, it's always been present. But I've been a DM for each of the three campaigns listed in the first paragraph, and I've played in each, with more than one DM for each campaign, and that problem never arose. The guidelines for each campaign are clear enough that every DM was able to implement them the same way.

A group could play among themselves only and use house rules, making their character hard to adapt if they were to join different groups or convention games, but it's not like they'd be taking anything away from the other players.
I agree with the fears of a LFR lack luster campaign. In LG, the interactives, the con specials and the ever changing story were the draws that kept my interest. Even online games do the same thing now a days thru monthly special events and regular content updates. Without these, its not much different than home play with free mods....sure its still fun to play, but it lacks the mass effect. When you run a small con and get almost 200 players for a LG interactive, you seen the merits of the system. I was never at a con that boasted 200+ players for a LotGR, Living Star wars, Kalamar or any of the new campaigns.

And, if it really comes down to nothing special at cons, why have a regional group at all? Its really just a bunch of authors agreeing on content and writing them up. You certainly don't need a geographical designation to send scripts and mods back and forth between authors. According to the rpga website:
The events manager is responsible for working with conventions in the region and for maintaining organizations to support the regional players.
What does he do at the cons? As a con coordinator, I order and run the events...what more is there? Any regional player options are still open to any player...not much regionalism there...why the geographical requirement?

Why was LG so much bigger than all of the other rpga settings? I personally believe it was because of the definied and enforced regionalism; both overall play and special events. The diversity and the uniqueness of being different. Call it ePeen, Ego, whatever; if everyone does or is the same, the game becomes bland. Imagine sitting at a table with a group of others players..."hiya, I'm a pally and I got a holy defender and the helm of uberness...". Second player, "yeah I got those too," ...third player "yep me too"...

...its like roleplay communism....
Being special can be bad - exceptions-based rulings and cases, yadda yadda... Headaches.

But then, again,why having a common set of rules and organisation kill the roleplay games at the base?


(don't be hatin' on the Left ;) roleplaying capitalism, well.... wasn't like being a fighter and sucked compared to CoDzilla? ;) )
I was never at a con that boasted 200+ players for a LotGR, Living Star wars, Kalamar or any of the new campaigns.

I'd point out that Living City could and did often draw those play numbers back in the day. At the conventions it ran at, it was often just as popular if not more so than you see for Living Greyhawk today.

The smaller campaigns aren't really a good metric to measure by here.


-karma
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric
I was never at a con that boasted 200+ players for a LotGR, Living Star wars, Kalamar or any of the new campaigns.

Origins has easily had over 200 Living Arcanis players for the past several years. True, it's a big convention...and the LG player base at Origins is even bigger...but it *is* possible to attract a large number of players for a non-LG campaign.

But, it's true that no campaign (with the possible exception of LC) has ever been as big as LG has been.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
It can be tricky comparing numbers (and more so now that WotC does not share actual numbers) between LG and LC. Back in the mid 90s, LC was smaller than what LG has been (I am confident), but that was when you had to pay a membership to join the RPGA. When they went to free (Fellowship) membership, the numbers exploded, but the numbers who played more than ten adventures a year was not high. Consider that LC modules were not regionally restricted. (Strangely, Claire and I participated in the 1998 RPGA planning meeting which laid out the concept for LG, then called Living World, to introduce the regional constructs and restrictions.) Still I have been told that LG numbers were very large. I have also been told that Eberron MOH numbers were very big as well, just in Home Play rather than at cons.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
I am sure someone (many people) has (have) spent more time on this issue then me. I'm hoping they can address me fears.

So what am I missing that will ensure the RPGA is still valuable to WotC (and me the guy with no home group) in a few years?

Thanks

I think these are valid fears but after some thought I don't think there will be a big issue with them.

Conventions for other areas such as anime, comic books, and scifi all are doing well even though you can get all of those at home/via netflix/online fairly easily. However, I see nothing but growth in that area.

The structure of DMing as its been so far has been few DMs and many players. DMing RPGA stuff is a pretty thankless job, and usually a group will burn out a DM pretty fast if they dont all take some time running mods. Said burned out DM will play with another group of people that DM, and because everyone is DMing and no one has to shoulder the burden for extended periods of time these people will choose to play with each other (often in the form of convention zero rounds).
As someone who doesn't have the option of attending cons for playing LG and who lives in an area with a very small player pool I don't really see what the problem is, as Insider (when its up and running) will mean that we can actually get to play for once on a regular basis, house rules will have no meaning either as at any one time I'll be playing with people from all over the world not just the ones in my local area.

Just for an example I have played 1 game of LG this month as for various reasons (work, family etc) our local Tues game has had to be postponed.

I was never a fan of the regional system either as some regions fared very badly compared to others i.e. Onnwal (my region) has no regional year 8's and is very unlikely to finish off outstanding story lines before the end of LG, our accesses were also very limited compared to the ones other regions offered. A few friends were able to go to two cons in the states last years and their A.R.'s were nothing short of fantastic compared to our usual offerings.

As for the first fear, I have difficulty in understanding how the lack of travel (time and expense) and larger ability to play games can be called a fear ?

The RPGA is a voluntary organisation promoting WoTC products for very little cost and time for Wizards so unless the RPGA numbers dwindle to insignificant amounts it'll be here for some time to come.
[...] our accesses were also very limited compared to the ones other regions offered. A few friends were able to go to two cons in the states last years and their A.R.'s were nothing short of fantastic compared to our usual offerings.

Well, that's only an indirect result of regionality -- the direct cause of that problem is the administrators in your region deciding not to give out the same access that other regions might. But all regions had access to the same item/feat/spell/etc. lists to which access could be granted...

You must also remember that even though every region could hand out the same access, that doesn't mean every region should hand out the same access. For example, I would expect to find regular access to something like holy or sacred in Veluna, but not in the Bandit Kingdoms. Conversely, I would never have handed out access to a mask of the skull in Veluna, whereas I've seen more than a few players from the BK having access to those....
Well, that's only an indirect result of regionality -- the direct cause of that problem is the administrators in your region deciding not to give out the same access that other regions might. But all regions had access to the same item/feat/spell/etc. lists to which access could be granted...

Also, there are players who want access in their region limited. In a low access region, you can get the full play experience with only the 3 core books-you don't need to buy additional books to make your uber character (well uber non druid that is). Not good from the point of WoTC marketing, but some players consider that a plus.
Also, there are players who want access in their region limited. In a low access region, you can get the full play experience with only the 3 core books-you don't need to buy additional books to make your uber character (well uber non druid that is). Not good from the point of WoTC marketing, but some players consider that a plus.

That's why I thought the Magic Item Compendium was actually a bit of a godsend - tons of useful items in a single sourcebook. If you're one of those people that thinks the book was just another WotC scheme to make money by reprinting a bunch of existing items, well, I can't help you with that :P

FWIW, on any mods I wrote or reviewed, I always simply tried to include items that were appropriate to the adventure; sometimes that meant lots of DMG items, other times there might be a lot of stuff from other sources (MIC, Libris Mortis, etc.), but the final access ("Items found" section and/or favors with merchants/churches/laborers) always included something from the DMG...
You must also remember that even though every region could hand out the same access, that doesn't mean every region should hand out the same access.

As a Triad member in the Iuz's Border States and a player in the VTF and Core mods, I can assure you that not every region could hand out the same access. I would regularly have items pulled from my region's ARs at the Circle level, then get access to the same item in a different region the next weekend (or, in one case, get access to the same item in a Core mod at the same convention where I wasn't allowed to hand the item out). The different Circle members had different ideas as to what was overpowered or not, and it was clearly played out in the ARs.
John du Bois Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
For those who play LG: Flame this post all you want, its just my complaints of your campaign that made it so more people didn't play in LG than did in my region (I am counting all those who quit to play with me and my group in home games or in the LARP we ran)....kinda showing you why the living system for WOTC needed to be changed.



I think one thing everyone keeps forgetting is that WOTC is making Dungeons and Dragons more "mainstream" to the current player base that is out there. Also WOTC is getting away from the triads, circle and other player run orgs that limit what books the players can use. I am sure WOTC wasn't all to happy that alto of their books were just plain banned from LG play. From a business standpoint they will make their new living campaigns support their profits; which means making it so players will want to buy all the new books to play new characters, that without that purchase, they will would not have been able to have been played. I tell everyone, even though everyone seems to give me the evil eye for it, that LG was more of a player run campaign like the CAM was for whitewolf. Both of those two companies took back the reigns on their player run games mostly because the people running the "campaign" altered, changed or deleted things those companies wanted in their rules. WOTC will not admit this like WhiteWolf did, they got a huge player backlash from players as die hard as LG players, because many of them did cancel their paid subscriptions to the fan club. I myself like the new direction the company seems to be taking their living campaigns in. Finally I will be able to play a character not restricted or punished by where I live in the real world. Thats right I said it...I HATED HAVING TO BE IN ULEK. I do not think anyone in a interesting fun region ever had a problem with theirs, but myself and others constantly would say things like "You think thats tough? Try being a elf in ulek where all the enemies of the dwarfs have elf slaying arrows...hell I though they hated dwarfs. Why do they have those things and better yet why are they on the AR?" Then of course another player at the con or battle interactive would speak up "You think thats harsh? Well try living under the supreme light of Pholtus where half your choices on your character sheet are made for you or you die or get thrown in prison for 365 TUs." I think the "your fears" is just that "YOUR FEARS." I doubt that WOTC would make their campaign based of the minority instead of the majority. Many of us just can't get to cons (Which is funny cause if you talked to the triad about why they made it pretty much impossible to play the kind of character you wanted to they would say just travel half way across the country or just play the 10-12 core mods a year. Also for all those who didn't know the LG people banned playing any mod outside your region online so you had to travel and support their cons.) and welcome the ability to be in a living campaign that we can play online and enjoy every author from every region. Also that whole "institute home play stuff" I went to help out with a slot 0 before a regional battle interactive and the Triad member brought in Moradin into the game to resurrect a dwarf who got killed in the mod (just to let you know no gods were written in the mod) and then told the player he would write him a special adventure to complete his transformation into a follower of said god. Finally I will go to cons...just the two a year I normally go to, and no I wont be going to pay $75 dollars a night at a hotel 7 hours away to play the regional special con just for cool items or favors. If your fears include that people who hated the fanboy style of play that LG offered might start playing LFR and actually having a good time; well then maybe your fears are real.


In sum: I support the new leaders of what will hopefully not be a constricted fanboy style campaign focused on being forced to play things they disliked or have little to no play opportunities. My fear is that the people who pigeonholed LG players are gonna try to do the same thing with LFR, but I don't think WOTC will let them do that this time around.
Also, there are players who want access in their region limited. In a low access region, you can get the full play experience with only the 3 core books-you don't need to buy additional books to make your uber character (well uber non druid that is). Not good from the point of WoTC marketing, but some players consider that a plus.

I agree however at APL12 (max APL) in the last Onnwal mod I played I got access to............... Bracers of Defense +3. Now I agree on limiting access but that is pants quite frankly. An Australian pal of hours came over on holiday and was amazed that none of us wanted to play our regional mods and instead stuck to Cores's, ADP's and meta-regionals, he lost his amazement when we showed him our AR's and compared them with his.
Ghost, try some line breaks, instead of one looooooooooong block of text.

Then again, making most of your post into one paragraph makes it hard to read, so maybe the other folks on the board wouldn't notice the blatant inaccuracies you included in it.

The RPGA, as an organization, has always been run by TSR/WotC, not a fan-run group. All they did, if you really paid attention, was try to hold down the cheese factor. If you actually looked at your ARs, you might notice that most of the ones past the intro mods include access from different books besides the core books.

As to only playing Core mods online, you can also play modules from your own region and meta-region online.

As to playing an elf in Ulek, well, all I can say is that that was YOUR choice, and you could have, easily, started another character of a different race if you really wanted to. And you always have the possibility, just like in the Pale, of doing what you can to work at changing the philosophy of the region. YMMV.

Marty, player of a human Pious Templar of Ehlonna in the Theocracy of the Pale.
[...] I am sure WOTC wasn't all to happy that alto of their books were just plain banned from LG play. [...]

I not exactly sure what you mean when you say "alto of their books" (and if English isn't your first language, here's my apology in advance).

But I would like to know what books you are aware of that you feel were "just plain banned"? I took a recent look at the product listing from 2000 to the present... We can automatically eliminate the following:
  • Anything 4e-related
  • Anything labelled "Core Game Product" (as we wouldn't really have anything to play if we couldn't use the core game rules)
  • Any Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, or Eberron sourcebooks
  • Similarly, we remove Ghostwalk, since it is its own campaign setting (and 3.0 as well)
  • Splat books (Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, etc.). They were used in the campaign, and removed because LG went from 3.0 to 3.5
  • Unearthed Arcana (a bunch of variant rules that work great in a home game, not so great in a campaign like LG)
  • All novels or anthologies
  • Dungeon Tiles
  • Minis sets
  • Map folios
  • Various dice sets
  • Card games (Three Dragon Ante, Inn Fighting)

Twenty-four of the remaining entries are adventures; TMK, none of the 3.0 adventures (The Sunless Citadel, The Forge of Fury, etc.) were adapted for LG play (granted, I wasn't playing LG back then, so maybe they were and I just missed any references to them), but all the others, from Fantastic Locations: Fane of the Drow on through Fortress of the Yuan-Ti have had LG adaptations released, with the exceptions of The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.

So what's left? If I counted correctly, forty-seven titles*. Of those, here's what's not allowed in the campaign: Complete Psionic, Epic Level Handbook, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Oriental Adventures, Tome of Battle, and Weapons of Legacy.
  • Two of those are psionics-related -- despite psionics place in canon Greyhawk, the 3.x systems have enough adjudication problems that I understand their removal (sorry, Zuoken worshippers!).
  • Epic Level Handbook: It's hard enough to write challenging adventures for PCs level 12+, so ditto on removing epic level play from the campaign
  • Oriental Adventures - TMK, canon of the Flanaess is notoriously absent of oriental flavor, so no surprise here; it was also a 3.0 source that didn't receive a 3.5 update. Nonetheless, much of the equipment, and many of the items, spells, creatures, etc. showed up in some form or another in later (3.5) sourcebooks
  • Tome of Battle: Cool concepts, really was beta-testing for 4e.
  • Weapons of Legacy: OK, can't give you a reason why, other than one could consider it an alternate magic/advancement system in some ways
  • Magic of Incarnum: Can't give you a reason why, other than being a markedly different magic system (I personally think it, too, is a cool concept, and would allow its use in a home game)


So I see seven outright "bans" - tell me what we lost by not having these in the campaign...


* Elder Evils, Exemplars of Evil, Magic Item Compendium, Dungeonscape, Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells, Dragon Magic, Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, Monster Manual IV, Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss, Player's Handbook II, Complete Psionic, Tome of Magic: Pact, Shadow, and Truename Magic, Races of the Dragon, Spell Compendium, Heroes of Horror, Magic of Incarnum, Stormwrack, Weapons of Legacy, Dungeon Master’s Guide II, Heroes of Battle, Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations, Sandstorm, Races of the Wild, Complete Adventurer, Races of Destiny, Complete Arcane, Libris Mortis: The Book of Undead, Frostburn, Monster Manual III, Races of Stone, Planar Handbook, Complete Divine, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Draconomicon, Complete Warrior, Book of Exalted Deeds, Fiend Folio, Arms and Equipment Guide, Savage Species, Book of Vile Darkness, Monster Manual II, Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, Deities and Demigods, Oriental Adventures, Manual of the Planes, Hero Builder's Guidebook, Living Greyhawk Gazetteer
Weapons of Legacy are problematic for AR space and the special missions attached to them were rather problematic as well. In short, they did not work very well in a Living setting.
Finally I will go to cons...just the two a year I normally go to,

So, if the two cons you usually attend only offer the same thing that your local game shop does, why would you play that campaign at the big con when you could try something different, new or unique? I believe most people go to cons to see or try things they usually don't get to see/try.


Also, in reply to earlier posters, I may be wrong, but I don't recall LC being available for homeplay...so again, the driver for small con attendance was always something new or unique and that generated high participation. A comparison of LG to the other living campaigns is more to show how the regionalism promoted and drove up participation at all levels of the LG campaign, not just the 3 big cons.

A number of smaller town cons (300-500 attendees) have flourished in the last 5 years due to LG and the intereactive / specials. I see attandance for those significantly dropping without a living campaign incentive as LG fades.

To be selfish, I like to travel to new cons, meet new people, see new things and stuff. It was quite interesting to see all of the different builds, min/maxing, roleplay ideas, combinations of spells/ items, etc. Sitting down with a table of clones that have done the exact same adventures, same loot, same stories...is discouraging. I guess I can join the rest of the gamer / geek genre and sit in my basement and play online..

(and yeah, maybe I'm exaggerating abit)....but just a bit.
I think there is at least a small factor of wanting to show-off or see how they stack-up we against the rest of the campaign. If you are only going to play at home games, it seems like you are putting up with alot of extra play restrictions to do so.

Ultimately I go to cons to meet and revisit other players, play a whole bunch of D&D without home scheduling issues creeping in and to hopefully leave a mark or memory of my character in a few minds or in-game places.
Ultimately I go to cons to meet and revisit other players, play a whole bunch of D&D without home scheduling issues creeping in and to hopefully leave a mark or memory of my character in a few minds or in-game places.

Same here.
For those who play LG: Flame this post all you want,

In sum: I support the new leaders of what will hopefully not be a constricted fanboy style campaign focused on being forced to play things they disliked or have little to no play opportunities. My fear is that the people who pigeonholed LG players are gonna try to do the same thing with LFR, but I don't think WOTC will let them do that this time around.

See here's the thing Ghost; a large percentage of the people on these here RPGA forums have little to no idea just how many D&D players feel exactly the same way you do.

Whether invested RPGA players understand these issues isn't the point. An overwhelming amount of D&D players feel similarly (perhaps not all as strongly) to you and I believe that LFR is structured to cater for a much broader audience than, say, LG.

Now, some of these initiatives have been announced (open regional play, no TUs) and some soon will be. The point is that campaigns like LG were 'exclusive rather than inclusive' and this turned many D&D players away. I'm confident that you will find LFR to be 'inclusive rather than exclusive'.


Joe
Joe Fitzgerald | joerpga[at]yahoo[dot]com[dot]au LFR Global Administrator
The point is that campaigns like LG were 'exclusive rather than inclusive' and this turned many D&D players away.

Joe

but more chose to participate
Your view isn't supported by the numbers...if LG was exclusive, it had the greatest participation. Green Regent, Kalamar, Living Star wars, Xen'drik, Living death and a number of other mini-living campaigns (Undremountain) - your "inclusive" versions...haven't had anywhere near the success of LG. Living City, being a con only would also be exclusive by your definition and it was as, if not more, successful.

...I guess my point is that "exclusive" (if thats what these campaigns were / are) are more successful than the "inclusive" ones as evident by participation and there's a fundamental reason for it.
I don't think we should morn the loss of adventures whose play is limited by real world geographic reasons. Making regions 'matter' was a nice idea, but regional exclusivity may not have been the best way to go about it.
Still, some elements - such as regional specials/battle interactives - were very cool, as as the familiarization you got over your own region. I wonder how this will work in LFR, it was one of the nicest elements of the regional system.
LC had home play, we just did not call it that, it was more like "Hey guys I am having a convention at my house this weekend." Of course the concept of home play was not even around back in the mid '90's as it is now.

As for inclusion, after taking a break from LG from burn out, I tried to come back and judge, and was really put off by the fact that so much had been included. I sat down at a table once and I had a Centaur on one side and a couple sand elfs(?) on the other, and what felt like 20 new classes I had never seen before.

I am curious if that all the regional flavor that we did have with the LG system in the form of meta-orgs and the like is not going to be duplicated. At that point I wonder what is the reason for the regions then. Is it simply a way to break up the writing and provide local (a very broad definition for some of us) contacts?
I am curious if that all the regional flavor that we did have with the LG system in the form of meta-orgs and the like is not going to be duplicated. At that point I wonder what is the reason for the regions then. Is it simply a way to break up the writing and provide local (a very broad definition for some of us) contacts?

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1043861
I'll throw in my two bits on this, since I think my play experience is somewhat relevant to this topic.

I'm currently in a weekly home game (technically two bi-weekly games, but I digress). In the past, I have tried several times to get involved in Living Greyhawk, but I've discovered that for one reason or another, people in my area just aren't really into the idea of organized play. I started out by hosting a game at my apartment for whoever wanted to come. I sent out some feelers on message boards and in the FLGS, and in the end I got one new player and the same people from my weekly game. That one new player became a DM for a second session, also at my apartment, and then a third session at the FLGS. At that point it was still basically my home group + one.

I discovered a monthly gaming group that meets in our area, so I went there and tried to start a game. I got some interest drummed up there, and found another DM and a couple new players and figured that it was getting close to starting something up, but things quickly kind of fell apart when we would have an extra player (making 7) and the DM would be fine with just letting them join the table and play rather than sticking to the rules and guidelines that were set. Even from my own group, I heard a lot of complaining about the way ARs worked and the "incredibly slow levelling" (I guess when you play once a month, it is pretty slow), and so eventually we just kind of put it aside, stopped showing up to the monthly games and went on our ways.

Now I'd like to get back on the horse. I'm going to GenCon and I'm going to get a start there with about 4 or 5 mods, which I will hopefully bring back here and be able to use. I am really interested in the online game table if WotC can get their act together and actually get it online, and I'm really loving the fact that if I really like, say, the Waterdeep modules, I can run those for my players, even though I'm not from that Region. My hope is that I can turn one of our bi-weekly games into a rotating LFR game, where each of us picks a Region to DM and then we just rotate DMs and play from the different regions each time. I know that, to a certain extent, this goes against the idea of playing at local stores and at conventions, and I suppose that supports the OPs fears, but I've taken a few kicks at the can to try and get something set up in the area, and I guess I'm just not vocal and extroverted enough to get it done, so this style actually lets me play the game I want.
All personal feelings about LG aside, I feel that LFR will do a lot of things better than LG. With Shawn in charge, how could it go wrong? ;)

Everyone has fears when something new comes along in the D&D gaming community. Some fears seem more legitimate than others, but ultimately those fears are legitimate concerns to the people who voice them. At this point there is a lot of anticipation building and a lot of questions that cannot be answered at this time are being asked.

I'm confident that the LFR staff know what they are doing and that many concerns will be addressed when the creation guide appendix is released, the campaign officially starts, and the staff can finally discuss openly what their intentions and rulings will be.

Again, with Shawn in charge, what could possibly go wrong! :D
I have mixed feelings.

I think the regional system of LG was the best part of it, when -- and this disclaimer is important -- it went right. Regions who drew good triads were a blast to play in and put the core mods to shame, weaving amazing, elaborate stories that stretched over most of a decade and involved the players in ways never before seen. Regions that didn't could be sad ass.

So I'm sorry to see that go.

On the other hand, I'm older now, and there's really no way I would road trip to different states to play in a variety of regions the way I did during the glory years of LG, so, something more casual-friendly is actually probably a lot better for me now.

Also, a lot of the best parts of LG (IMHO) were wholly or partially the works of Chris Tulach, and he has a lot more influence now than he did at the start of LG. He also has a great passion for the Realms, so I expect great things inasmuch as he wields control over the future of LFR.
Also, a lot of the best parts of LG (IMHO) were wholly or partially the works of Chris Tulach, and he has a lot more influence now than he did at the start of LG. He also has a great passion for the Realms, so I expect great things inasmuch as he wields control over the future of LFR.

The Iuz Metaregion was overseen by some of the best in Buhlman, Tulach and Frey.

They were giants amongst men I tell you, GIANTS!


Joe
Joe Fitzgerald | joerpga[at]yahoo[dot]com[dot]au LFR Global Administrator
Origins has easily had over 200 Living Arcanis players for the past several years. True, it's a big convention...and the LG player base at Origins is even bigger...but it *is* possible to attract a large number of players for a non-LG campaign.

And a campaign with poor quality rules supplements at that! (errata is typically almost as big as the book it was for!) Good story though.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf