Need help with Homebrew Weaponry

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Hi.
I'm currently creating some weapons for a setting, and I've some balance question.
The said weapons are Magic Rifle/Pistol, and are moderately rare among the world.
They act as special Wondrous Item:
Force weapons: These weapons look like crossbows without the bow and with a metal body. Each time the trigger is activated, these weapons shoot powerful concussive bolts over long range. Recharging the weapons is in reality the act of opening the cannon to let the heated and arcanic charged air get out. These weapons need also Arcanic Generator to work, inserted in theirs cross.

 

Force Pistol (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6)
Based on the Hand Crossbow, this arcanic weapon shot force bolt rather than physical one.
(3/8/13/18/23/28)
Wondrous Item
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Hands Required: One
- This item act as an special ranged weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus, 2d4 force damages, (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6) enhancement bonus and 10/20 range.
- This item need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely. - Each time you attack with this weapon, you may draw up to (1/1/2/2/3/3) charges from the battery, adding 1d4 of bonus damages per charges.
- It need a minor action to reload.
- You can change the generator with a standard action that provoke an opportunity attack.


Force Rifle (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6)
Based on the Crossbow, this arcanic weapon shot force bolt rather than physical one.
(5/10/15/20/25/30)
Wondrous Item
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Hands Required: Two
- This item act as an special ranged weapon with a +2 proficiency bonus, 2d6 force damages, (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6) enhancement bonus and 25/50 range.
- This item need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely. - Each time you attack with this weapon, you may draw (1/1/2/2/3/3) charge from the battery, adding 1d6 of bonus damages per charges.
- It need a move action to reload.
- You can change the generator with a standard action that provoke an opportunity attack.


Force Sniper (+3/+4/+5/+6)
A longer, more precise and more powerful version of the Power Rifle, but with a recharge speed issue.
(15/20/25/30)
Wondrous Item
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Hands Required: Two
- This item act as an special ranged weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus, 2d6+4 force damages, (+3/+4/+5/+6) enhancement bonus and 50/100 range.
- This item need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely. - Each time you attack with this weapon, you may draw (2/2/3/3) charge from the battery, adding 1d6+2 of bonus damages per charges.
- It need a standard action to reload.
- You can change the generator with a standard action that provoke an opportunity attack.


They all need a feat to be proficient with
An other feat allow to downgrade the recharge action by one on the one you are proficient with. (Standard=>Move; Move=>Minor; Minor=> Free)


Arcanic Generator (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6) ([The force weapon name])
An Arcanic Generator made to supply [The force weapon name] with energy.
(Same level than his weapon)
Wondrous Item
Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
This item is used to power arcanic weapons. It carry a build in battery that hold (6/6/8/8/10/10) charge. It recharge automatically after each extended rest. It also grant a (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6) to damages made with the [The force weapon name] it is set in.

 

So, are they overpowered? Underpowered? Did I post in the right forum?

Thanks for your answer.

Ok your first problem is that you're mixing weapon enchants with basic weapon stats, I must reccomend against this because it creates major headaches when trying to evaulate these things.

 

I suggest the force projector enchant be a mod that can be applied ot any ranged (non-thrown) weapon. This will simplify things marvelously.

 

I was thinking of this weapons as specials magical weapons that need a feat to use.

By nature not enchantable with an other kind of enchant.

If I separate the weapons from the enchant:

Weapon name  | Damages | Range | Proficiency | Recharge

Force Pistol       | 2d4            | 10/20   | +3                | Minor

Force Rifle         | 2d6            | 25/50   | +2                | Move

Force Sniper      | 2d6+4       | 50/100 | +3                | Standard

 

An the enhancement is:

+1 per level to the damages in addition to the enhancement normal bonus

Possibility to draw charge from the battery of the generator to add bonus dice of the same type (d4 ; d6 ; d6+2)

Possibility to change the generator with a standard action (useful to have some new charge to use...)

 

Why I didn't use a more standard enhancement system:

-I was thinking of them as true weapons of there own, and not simply strange thing like the "Laser pistol" from Thingamajigs of the Barrier Peaks...

-But, even if they are a new kind of weapons, I wanted them to have VERY specific enchant on them.

-Not anyone could use them without a proficiency feat.

-I see them as some kind of magical firearm.

 

Hope to have been more clear ^^'

(Anyway, thank for answering me, XD)

Ok so the weapons are separate then, it's just that no one who makes them bothers to use any other enchant, gotcha.

 

The next step is to sort out how the 'mundane' version treats the generator/recharge rules cause I'm a little fuzzy there.

 

OK obviously it takes the listed action to recharge, but the questions are: 1.) How many charges/shots does each weapon have before it needs to be recharged? 2.) How do you recharge it? 3.) What's the limit/price on recharges?

 

I;d also reccommend 1d8 for the pistol, especially if it's one handed as most pistols tend to be.

 

1d12 for the rifle, and up the prof bonus to +3

 

For the sniper I'd say 2d6, with either heavy crit or brutal 1.

 

Then enchantment is too strong, specifically the part about +1 damage per level, see one of the most damaging enchants I know is the staff of ruin and it only gives 2xenchant bonus to damage, the proposed bnous of +level is 5 times that, and you wanna add over charge features as well?

 

I get that these are suposed to be really nasty, but let's keep some semblance of game balance here okay.

 

 

 

Oops!
It was not:+1 per level to the damages in addition to the enhancement normal bonus.
But: +1 per enhancement level [+1 to +6) to the damages in addition to the enhancement normal bonus. (So, like the staff or ruin ^^)


There is no "mundane" version, that's the point ^^ (or problem depending of the point of view...)

Why not for the damages, it reduce a little the average damage, but allow to throw less dice.


Your question:
1) The generator give unlimited normal shot, but only (6/6/8/8/10/10) additional "overcharge" dice.
2) The generator recharge it's build in battery after an extended rest (You can also change the current generator on the weapon with a standard action if you have more than one)
3) The price of a generator is the one of a magic item of the same level than the weapon it is set in. (Every weapon give one generator for free when you "buy" it)

Some situational example
You have a +4 Pistol (lvl 18), a +3 Pistol (lvl 13), a +3 Rifle (lvl 15), a +3 Sniper (lvl 15). So, in addition to the weapon, without additional cost, you get 4 Generator (One lvl 18 (+4), two lvl15 (+3) and one level 13 (+3))

The +3 RIfle generator and the +3 Sniper generator can be exchanged both way (They have the same level)
The +3 Pistol generator and the +3 Rifle/Sniper are not (Since the +3 Pistol Generator is level 13 and the +3 Rifle/Sniper is level 15). So you can use the +3 Rifle/Sniper generator in the +3 Pistol, but not the other way.
The +4 Pistol generator can be use on any of the previous weapons, even giving a +1 to the damage of the +3 Weapons ^^


Edit: By the way, Arcanic Generator are use in nearly all the magic items I want to add in that setting. (Power Armor; Power Blade/Axe; Multi-function belt...)

I put the word mundane in the quotes for a  reason, i get that these weapons are not availiable in an un-enchanted state or with different enchants, but I want to see the complete rules for bothe the weapon and the enchant sseparated so I can evaluate them properly. 

 

I need to understand the basic functions before I get into the advanced ones.

 

Part of the problem I'm having is that you're mixing the formats for weapon enchant and base weapon stats makes it harder for me to figure out what you're saying.

 

ok so how does the recharge power work without the enchant?

 

How many shots do I have before I must recharge?

How many shots do I get back when I recharge?

What do I need to recharge?

HOw does the recharger work?

 
 

How many shots do I have before I must recharge?
1

 

How many shots do I get back when I recharge?
1

 

What do I need to recharge?
The Pistol/Rifle/Sniper need a recharge action to be able to fire a new time.
The Generator recharge it's power level automatically after each extended rest.
You can also take a special recharge action to change the Generator currently set in the weapon to have access to the new Generator Power Charges.

How does the recharger work?
Simply opening the cannon to let the air inside it cool down.

 

Example:
I'm equip with a +3 Force Rifle.
The Generator freely given with it is a +3 version with 8 Power charges.

I make an attack against an enemy ad decide to draw 2 Power Charge to enhance my attack, giving me 2d6 bonus damage.
After the shot, I need a standard action to "recharge", and thus be able to make a new attack.

In the middle of the battle, my Generator run out of Power Charge. This don't prevent me from making normal shot, just with damages enhanced one.
I can use a standard action to replace the Generator currently in my weapon by the one on my belt, giving me 8 new Power Charge to use.
Both Generators will regain their Power Charges after an extended rest.

Ok but say I have a plus 0, unenchanted, (i know they don't exist in your game but just bear with me) how does recharging work?

 

1.) I just fire and take the recharge action (which is what I suspect form your description but I want confirmation), and I can fire again?

 

or 

 

2.) I need the geenrator to recharge?

 

It sounds like 1 so I'll just work from that assumption for now.

 

Basically These weapons are about on par with a cross-bow, posisbly a little worse because they don't have the range, feat, or class support crossbows do. They should be fine for the most part.

 

The enchant is where it gets sticky for me, partly because Im not sure what it does (does it auto-recharge for you or just provide charge for powering up shots?), and partly because its got staffof ruin worked in there as well. Makes me nervous about the overall damage output.

 

I suggest stattign up the enchantment using standard format so it's easier to compare to the other enchants. I think you might need to drop the number of charges per encounter a bit.

 

I am that not clear in my explanation O.O

 

So... I take a unenchanted version of the rifle.
Weapon name | Damages | Range | Proficiency | Recharge
Force Rifle        | 2d6             | 25/50   | +2                | Move

 

Every time I make an attack with this weapon, I need to take a recharge action to allow me to make an other shot.
I shot, I recharge. I shot, I recharge. I shot, I recharge. I shot, I recharge...
The weapon don't need ammo. (Recharging is NOT adding a new munition in the chamber, but cooling down it to prevent overheat of the chamber)

 

The enchant alone:

Force weapon (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6)
(5/10/15/20/25/30)
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
- This item need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely.
- +1 to damage roll per plus of the Arcanic generator set in.
- Each time you attack with this weapon, you may draw (1/1/2/2/3/3) charge from the battery, adding 1d6 of bonus damages per charges consumed.
- You can change the generator with a standard action that provoke an opportunity attack.

 

Thus, each time I attack with the weapon, I can draw power charge from the Generator battery to enhance the damage (1d6 per charges, up to 1 per tier).
The Generator Power charge are independent of the state the rifle is currently in (Ready to fire / Need to cooldown)

 

 


Basically These weapons are about on par with a cross-bow, posisbly a little worse because they don't have the range, feat, or class support crossbows do. They should be fine for the most part.

 

I disagree

Weapon name | Damages | Range | Proficiency | Recharge


Hand crossbow | 1d6             | 10/20   | +2                | Free
Force Pistol       | 2d4            | 10/20   | +3                | Minor

 

Crossbow          | 1d8            | 15/30   | +2                | Minor [Two hand]
Force Rifle         | 2d6            | 25/50   | +2                | Move [Two hand]

Force Sniper      | 2d6+4       | 50/100 | +3                | Standard [Two hand]

 

In term of brute firepower, the Force weapons are WAY more powerful, partially because of their enchant who is a bit superior to other enchant that can be seen on other weapon. (Counterbalanced by the feat dedication (1 for proficiency) and slow "recharge" rate)

In term of feat, I plan some feat to allow to shot additional powercharge or temporary change the type of damage
I've also planned a dedicated paragon path


I think you might need to drop the number of charges per encounter a bit.
The tricky part is that the charge are not by encounter, but per day


A level 30 character with a +6 Sniper making a full house basic attack:
Attack roll:
+6 from enhancement
+3 from proficiency

Damage roll
2d6+4 per [W]
+6 from proficiency
+6 from the generator
+3d6+6 (about +16.5)
(28.5 + (11 per [W]) per attack)

Can do the +3d6+6 part 3 time per day.


NEED a freaking standard action to reload (Shot once every two turn...)

 

 

A level 30 character with a +6 Rifle making a full house basic attack:
Attack roll:
+6 from enhancement
+3 from proficiency

Damage roll
2d6 per [W]
+6 from proficiency
+6 from the generator
+3d6 (about +10.5)
(22.5 + (7 per [W]) per attack))

Can do the +3d6 part 3 time per day.


NEED a move action to reload (Can barely move and shot on the same turn...)

 

 

A level 30 character with a +6 Pistol making a full house basic attack:
Attack roll:
+6 from enhancement
+3 from proficiency

Damage roll
2d4 per [W]
+6 from proficiency
+6 from the generator
+3d4 (about +7.5)
(19.5 + (5 per [W]) per attack))

Can do the +3d4 part 3 time per day.


NEED a minor action to reload (The lesser restriction of the 3, but can still compensate the DPT on many build that require THAT minor action)

 


The question is now:
Does a Standard action worth the 22.5 additionnal damages (3 time per day if you only have a single Generator), 50 additional square of range and a +1 to attack?
Does a Move action worth the 16.5 additionnal damages (3 time per day if you only have a single Generator) and 20 additional square of range?
Does a Minor action worth the  13.5 additionnal damages (3/day...) and a +1 to attack?
All of that plus a feat!

Well yeah the x-bows have less power, but they reload faster as a general rule. I did think x-bows had longer ranges for some reason.

 

Ok you're trying way too hard to make this complicated.

 

Just make the generators compatible with any unenchanted weapon for starts, or let them over-write other enchants like a ki-focus, then we can put the enchant on them instead of playing this bloody jigsaw game. 

 

Ok how does the generator work? It stores x daily charges based on it's level and you can draw on them for the enchant powers right? That's it?

 

It looks to me like what you really want is a ki-foci for ranged weapons, and a series or magi-tech guns to use it with.

 

So just make the generator/enchant a single item that plugs into whatever you end up calling this new weapon group and over-writes any enchantment it might pick up from meddling PCs the same way a ki-foci does for melee weapons. 

 

1. Unless you have a really low number of daily charges, like enchant rating or less, the staff of ruin damage bonus is just too much, i suggest changing the passive power to converting the shots into force damage.

 

2. I think you need to adjust your damage curve a bit here, 1d10 for the pistol, 1d12 for the rifle, and 2d6 with brutal 1 for the sniper, in case you don't know brutal 1 means that any damage die the weapon rolls that turn up a 1 are rerolled until they are not 1s.

 

3. I don't see a lot classes or builds using these. See one of the flaws of 4e is that it is very restrictive about weapon group compatibilities, most classes are designed for melee or implements, while the ranged weapon classes are generally restricted to a small selection, I don't know off hand if ranger powers will function with non-bows, but rogue and assassin for example are largely limited to crossbows if I recal correctly, and the seeker has two primary builds, one that specs for throwing, and another that specs bow, the bow version may be compatible but I'm not sure. Other than that most classes in 4e either have a class buffed basic attack or just better things to spend their actions on than re-loading. The simple fact is that any new weapon group, especially ranged weapons, is missing out on the class/feat support most other groups have to one degree or another, making them less attractive even if they're individually better weapons. 

 

Ok you're trying way too hard to make this complicated.

 

XD

 

 

 

Just make the generators compatible with any unenchanted weapon for starts, or let them over-write other enchants like a ki-focus, then we can put the enchant on them instead of playing this bloody jigsaw game.

 

The mains problems are:
1)The Generators are not limited to weapons (They can be found on Power Armor, Energy Shield, Utility Amulet...)
2)The enchant depend of the weapon to prevent the Pistol to have the same overcharge dice than the Sniper
3)The Generator are just normally power-source ^^'

 

 

 

Ok how does the generator work? It stores x daily charges based on it's level and you can draw on them for the enchant powers right? That's it?

 

Yes
6 charge at level 5- and 10-
8 at 15- and 20-
and 10 at 25- and 30-

 

 

 

It looks to me like what you really want is a ki-foci for ranged weapons, and a series or magi-tech guns to use it with.

 

The ki-focus part was not my intend, but the magi-techs guns definitely! (Since the generator are only "some kind" of "ammunition magazine" with unlimited normal shot and a bunch of special high power one)

 

 

 

2. I think you need to adjust your damage curve a bit here, 1d10 for the pistol, 1d12 for the rifle, and 2d6 with brutal 1 for the sniper,

 

If you give the pistol a 1d10 for damage, the rifle need a WAY better thing than 1d12, since it is a two handed move-"reloaded" weapon. (Even more true with the sniper)

 

 


3. I don't see a lot classes or builds using these. See one of the flaws ... better weapons.

 

That's why I've a couple of feat in mind ^^ (all of them need at least one proficiency feat)

 

Force weapons reload expert [Heroic]
Allow to recharge the sniper with two minor instead standard action. (That allow 1 attack/round)


Force weapons overheat management [Paragon]
1/encounter Allow to shot without recharging.


Force weapons Advanced Training [Heroic]
Gain the proficiency with all other Force weapons, can use Force weapons for Weapons powers.


Force weapons Psionic Training [Heroic]
1/encounter Can use a psionic power point to recharge two Arcanic generator power point, the two next attack made with the weapon gain the psychic keyword and inflict psyshic damages on top of their other type.

 

 


Other than that most classes [...] just better things to spend their actions on than re-loading

 

It's why I've give them a hight than average damage to compensate ^^'

For now, the thing I need to modify that is obvious, is my explanation of how it work XD

 

 

 

 

 

I would really like two see 2 things:
1)Your version finalised
2)Example

Force Pistol

+2 1d8 10/20 Recharge: Minor

 

Force Rifle

+3 1d10 15/30 Recharge: Move

 

Force Sniper

+3 2d6 25/50 Recharge: Standard, Brutal 1

 

It sounds like what you want is magi-tech gear, and generators to plug into said gear to get special bonuses out of right?

 

Ok make magitech +x the enchant so it's compatible with the standard scaling rules. It grants the standard enchantment bennies, and the ability to attach and use generators. And then make the generators required to provide daily charges. Don't worry about having different charges for snipers and pistols yet.

 

These need to be sorted out and presented as separate bits. Because it's very confusing, at least to me.

 

Also as for the feats, these guns are already ranged weapon so any power that can be used with any ranged weapon is already compatible, the problem is that most weapon powers are either melee specific, or likely tied to specific ranged weapon groups such as cross-bow, bow, or some flavor of throwing. Advance training just seems usless.

 

*couch* *couch*

 

A month already?

It seem that holiday are quite unproductive in term of RPG weaponry creation XD

Anyway!

 

Using the Guide To Disreality - Custom Weapons (http://community.wizards.com/content/blog/772481), I've revised them a little ^^' (With a bit of simplification at the same time)

 


-----Name------|Prof|DMG|Range|Hands| Propriety
Force Pistol: _| +2 | 2d4 | 10/20 | One | Recharge:Minor
Force Rifle: __| +2 | 2d6 | 25/50 | Two | Recharge: Minor
Force Sniper: | +3 | 2d6 | 30/60 | Two | Recharge: Minor; Long Range

 

Long Range (The weapon don't have long range penalty, but attack make against target at 5 or less square away suffer a -3 to the attack roll.)

 


New Weapons (Melee)
-----Name------|Prof|DMG|Hands| Propriety
Force Blade: _| +3 |1d10| Two | Brutal 2; High Crit
Force Rod: __| +2 | 1d8 | One | Off hand; Reach

 

All of them (Ranged and Melee) must be enchanted by one of the two Powercharge Enhancement:

 

 

Heavy Powercharge (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6)
Arcanic gear hidden in the weapon allow sudden surge of concussive power.
(5/10/15/20/25/30)
Weapon: Equestrian Force Weapons
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Enhancement: +1 attack rolls and damage rolls per plus
Property: This enhancement need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely.
Each time you attack with this enhancement, you may draw up to (1/1/2/2/3/3) charges from the battery, adding 1d6 of bonus damages (per charges).

 


Light Powercharge (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6)
Arcanic gear hidden in the weapon allow sudden surge of concussive power.
(3/8/13/18/23/28)
Weapon: Equestrian Force Weapons
Critical: +1d6 force damage per plus
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Enhancement: +1 attack rolls and damage rolls per plus
Property: This enhancement need a corresponding Arcanic Generator of the same level or higher to work. It come with one of the same level freely.
Each time you attack with this enhancement, you may draw up to (1/1/2/2/3/3) charges from the battery, adding 1d4 of bonus damages (per charges).

 


Arcanic Generator
An Arcanic Generator made to supply Magitech devices with energy.
(3/5/8/10/13/15/18/20/23/25/28/30)
Wondrous Item
Rarity: Rare (Equestrian Kingdom members only)
Weight: 1 lbs
Property: This item is used to power Magitech devices. It carry a build in battery that hold (2/2/4/4/6/6/8/8/10/10/12/12) charges. It recharge automatically after each extended rest. You can replace a setted generator during short rest.

 


Feat:
Force Weapons Expertise:
You gain a +1 feat bonus to weapon attack rolls that you make with a Force Weapons. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
    Also, you can use Force Weapons you are proficient with as implement (without the proficiency bonus).
    In addition, you treat the Force Pistol, Rifle, Sniper and Rod as Crossbows for feat effect and power requirement, and the Force Blade as Heavy Blade.

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