I have a dream...

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Many people have great ideas for classes, races, or other homebrew things, but have no idea how to make them, or just don't have enough time. The idea of this forum is that people who have good ideas can post them here, and any other person can try to create and balance this idea if they feel up to it (preferably with credit to the original idea maker).
So, all you forum-goers our there who can't balance or think up abilities well, please start posting!
I'm on my Wii atm, so I can't post a link, but please check my thread entitled " I Need Help in Indulging my Ultra-Nerdy Fantasies"

Thanks in advance!!!
How far along/good of an idea does the post have to be?
Well, I don't honestly know the system well enough to do anything on my own. I started a thread about doing a Martial Controller, and tried to design one, but only having played a handful of games, I'm not sure I want to mess with the things that come inherent in creating my own stuff like balance issues.

So on my wishlist is an Archery based Martial Controller (new class entirely) that uses a variety of arrows to create different effects (nets, dropping caltrops, starting fires etc)

Also a Runic Mage type (either as a Wizard build or as a new class entirely) that uses runes and such to perform his magic, and a Mounted Fighter that uses charges and mobility to his advantage. And a some new Sorcerer builds (new bloodlines essnetially. Like Fey and Celestial, though I suppose I can wait and see what the Arcane power will have)
So on my wishlist is an Archery based Martial Controller (new class entirely) that uses a variety of arrows to create different effects (nets, dropping caltrops, starting fires etc)

Would the different builds make use of a different assortment of weapons?

Also have you selected specific weapons you want it to use?
I have a certain flair for races and creating feats, though not so well on creating Powers. I can do it, but it takes me much longer and I usually have to bounce ideas off more people to get a good foothold. Though, if someone has an idea for a race, run it by this forum and I'll take a look if I can. Currently I'm working on redoing the horrible job WotC did with the 4EPHB2 Shifters, but I can always use more things to keep me occupied.

The hardest thing in any of this is balance, which is key. Once you have a good understanding of what balance in 4E represents, the easier it is to work with something. I like this thread, I'll definitely check it out every now and then when I have time.
I'm good at balancing, but I vowed never to get caught up in the whole martial controller crap.
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I want a range build for the warlord. Dex isn't a main stat but man... I really want to tell my archers to focus fire!

Another request: A combination axe-guitar for my bardic rendition of Jimi Hendrix.
Would the different builds make use of a different assortment of weapons?

Also have you selected specific weapons you want it to use?

Possibly. One build could be more bow based with another being more crossbow based. You could also put thrown weapons into the mix I would think.

Definetly bows and crossbows. Single handed swords for close combat, though modifying a bow to be used in a similar manner as a quarterstaff would be kind of cool, same with the idea of stabbing monsters with arrows. I would think that spears work best for the thrown weapon option, as do javelins or throwing knives. Erk is already designing one based along the spear/polearm route, but I think his is primarily a polearm user with melee abilities.

Believe me, any ideas on this archer class is more than welcome.

By the way, if this thread picks up any, I personally think it should be stickied as a Request thread.
I'm good at balancing, but I vowed never to get caught up in the whole martial controller crap.

That's fine, to each his own. Any ideas on the other two classes in my post?
I'd say a ranged martial controller is your best bet, or as I once worked on, a melee martial controller that uses close bursts.
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Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

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I'm always a little baffled by this kind of thing. Have you seriously played out the, what, 18 or so currently available classes already? In all builds? I don't expect to play 18 different characters over the course of the edition, total, let alone find myself bored of them already.

I can understand people who are running some specific campaign that needs a class for flavour reasons or whatever, but the people just making classes to have more classes - what the hell?
The only classes I made are:

Berserker (to fill in as two-handed martial melee striker before barb)

Death Knight (Plate arcane two-handed defender)

Necromancer (Ongoing damage pet master striker with minor in controller or defender)
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Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

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The only classes I made are:

Berserker (to fill in as two-handed martial melee striker before barb)

Death Knight (Plate arcane two-handed defender)

Necromancer (Ongoing damage pet master striker with minor in controller or defender)

Are those classes completed, or still WIPs?
Berserker is complete and the first balanced homebrew that was posted after 4e came out. It was the Diablo II Style Barbarian.

Death Knight is finished after a reworking.

Necromancer needs to be finished...and worked on...
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I'm always a little baffled by this kind of thing. Have you seriously played out the, what, 18 or so currently available classes already? In all builds? I don't expect to play 18 different characters over the course of the edition, total, let alone find myself bored of them already.

I can understand people who are running some specific campaign that needs a class for flavour reasons or whatever, but the people just making classes to have more classes - what the hell?

In my case it's exactly what you mentioned. They are for a homebrew campaign world that I want as flavor that simple refluffing won't work for. A ranger for example isn't going to be able to cover the sort of thing I want for the Archer class I talked about in my post above. I need a more controller-ish class for that.

The mounted knight/cavalier type I want isn't covered by any of the classes, and Runic Mage could possibly just be a new Wizard build though I think a new class entirely may work better for what I have in mind (I want the runes to actually have mechanics in the game, like different spells coming from different combination of runes etc.). The Celestial and Fey bloodlines for the Sorcerer would obviously be new builds, but Arcane Power might have what I want in it for all I know right now.

Now my own reasons for wanting new classes notwithstanding. There are dozens of classes that are not covered by the current rules, and some may come out in future books, but people are impatient and want something they can use right now, and I can understand that. At least this way they have something they can work with until the real thing comes out. I'll admit that I'm one of those people. Like the fact that the Monster Manuel 2 is coming out later this year. Well I'm building a campaign right now. I want the extra monsters from that book right now. I'd rather not have to shoehorn in new monsters in the middle of my pre-built campaign and figure out how they fit into my world's ecology and such when that book does come out. Reality is, I will have to if I want to use anything from that book. But with classes, races, and feats we don't have to wait if we can get feedback on this forum/thread.

The other thing that goes with what I said above is that there are some classes that are not out in this edition yet, and others that may never see the light of day in this edition for all we know. So people want to play that particular class or classes so they want it created. Some classes are being born as a result of options being taken away from specific classes. The wizard for example used to have specialists. Obviously those no longer exist. So now we have to build them as a seperate class altogether if we want multiple options (builds) for them, or as a seperate wizard build which will limit options somewhat.

I hope that helps explain some of our motives and desires to see new classes built.
Current requests:

Power Rangers in 4e - KainHighwind - "I Need Help in Indulging my Ultra-Nerdy Fantasies"
Ranged martial controller - Phantymwolf - "Martial Controller?"
Rune Mage - Phantymwolf
Mounted Fighter - Phantymwolf
Fey and Celestial Sorcerer Builds - Phantymwolf
Balanced Shifter - Kayhnis - "[4E] Unshafting the Shifter (P.E.A.C.H)" or "[4E] The Shifter Race, v2.0 - Upgraded"
Ranged Warlord build - MatthewSwift
As to a celestial sorcerer I believe that Arcane Power will have something like that. I have a mounted fighter martial class on my to do list (which is longer than I'll probably ever be able to complete) but I don't know when I'll get around to it.
Nah I work alone.
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Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

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I may have come up with an easier alternative for my Rune Mage class. I could just add runes as a seperate system for Arcane classes. Basically if you have specific runes in your possession, on your implement, on your robes, tattooed etc, you could get bonuses to powers based on the runes. Another idea would be to make a feat called Runic Ritual Caster, and make up specific rituals to be used by those who practice runic magic.

I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?
I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?

Would using the runes expend them? or would you use the same runes over and over again in different combinations?
I would have to go with they're expended, possibly to offset the versatility of the class, it would be a balancing factor anyway. But I may be way off base there. I know Rangers are the only class currently that really goes through expendable items (which is pretty cheap) on a regular basis, and only if they're bult a certain way. The other thought would be to make them non-expendable but make them implements as well, but again, not sure how that would work with balance and whatnot.
The other thought would be to make them non-expendable but make them implements as well...

If you made them implements how many runes can you hold at a time? Each power could have a req such as: you must be holding two "this rune" and one "that rune".
Considering that I'm thinking of them as small to medium rock sized I would say two-three in one hand would be about right. I was thinking for At-Will abilities the symbols could be traced in the air however (creating a 'sparkler' effect as the runes were traced), since they are supposed to be just that, At-Will. The stone runes would be primarily for combat Encounter and Daily powers. Utilities would possibly have more requirements like having the runes already tattooed onto yourself or stitched into your clothing or what have you if the ability affects yourself. Drawn onto the ground or carved into a surface if it affects objects or an area. Just some random thoughts on it. Could just go with the stone runes all the way around though.
Are you trying to go for a complex system of runes or a simple one?
Also would powers become more powerful (to an extent) if say you had more runes of the required type?
Ex:
Fire Strike
You draw a symbol in the air and a nearby by enemy catches aflame.
At-Will Ranged 10
Attack: Stat vs. Defense
Hit: 1d8 fire damage
Special: If your wielding a fire rune, increase the damage by 1d8

or something to this effect.
What you have there would work most assuredly. I would think that if you stacked Runes of a single type that yes it could add some power to the spell. Also I was going for simple but not too simple. Something like one Rune for effect, one for range/area, and one for side effects like push/slide etc.

On a side note I'm unsure as to whether this would be a controller or a striker, but I'm siding with controller with striker qualities personally.
Something like this?

Rune Blast
Ranged 5
Attack: Stat vs. Defense
Hit: 1d8 damage
Special:The damage this power deals corresponds to the rune type you are holding the most of.
Fire Rune: Add 1d8 to the damage.
Water Rune: and slide the target 1 square.
Earth Rune: and the target is slowed until the end of their next turn.
Air Rune: Range is 10 instead of 5.

Im thinking in this way you can only benefit from each rune effect at most once or twice. ie: 2 fire runes - 3d8 damage, 2 water runes - slide 2 squares, 2 earth runes - same as above, 2 air runes - 15 range
That's awesome, yeah something like that would definetly work.
You will prolly need to make a "rune" keyword to use with the class as well. Such as:

New Keyword: Rune
Rune: Powers with the rune keyword require a rune (or runes) to cast. A power with the rune keyword can benefit from multiple runes gaining the effect described with the power (if any). Depending on the number of runes you hold when you use the power, the benefit is stronger or weaker (or none at all). The number of runes you can benefit from for each rune type is equal to 1/2 your "stat" modifier.

This may or may not be clear but thats the overall power style i think your going for.
It makes sense to me, and yes it is the overall style I was going for. I wouldn't have even though of doing a keyword for it honestly. As far as the stat that would be tied to the powers I was thinking Wisdom as I want the class to be compatible with Dwarves. For class features I am completely stumped for what would be appropriate.
What secondary stats are you gona want for the class? Im thinking Con as one of them to go with your dwarf rune mage. Also, is this class gona have hp like a wizard/invoker (10 + con score and 4 per level) or hp like a druid (12 + con score and 5 per level)? Lastly, how to you intend to implement the secondary role as a striker? two ideas i have are straight up damage (less likely) or getting bonus damage from versatility of rune powers (more likely).
May I add that the different rune types could be very similar to the chosen implement effects of the Wizard? Otherwise what I smell coming is A PC with a half-million runes in his back pocket. (Or Bag O' Holdin').

Making your preferred rune type a choice at creation seems very in-line with what the game is currently putting forth.
Con or Int seems appropriate for a secondary, either works. I'm thinking that HP equal to a Wizards would also be more in line. For the striker role your latter thought of getting bonus damage from rune types makes the most sense.

Bod, your idea makes a lot of sense actually, Dalor what do you think of it?
First of all, thanks for the assistance here Bod :D
Second, Bod i put in the max runes thing into the keyword just so that you wouldn't have a PC with tons of runes because they cant use them all anyway (at most like 3-4 of each type and thats in like the 20s).
Third, would having a specific rune implement diminish the versatility you were going for Phantym?
Not if we play it right. You could choose a rune 'specialty' of a sorts for your class feature, maybe getting bonuses on a certain runes when used. That would still allow for the versatility but also encourage players to use a specific rune or set of runes.
This is what we got so far:

CLASS TRAITS
Role: Controller.
Power Source: Arcane.
Key Abilities: Wisdom, Constitution, Intelligence
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee
Implements: Runes
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 4
Healing Surges per Day: 6 + Constitution modifier
Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below,
choose three more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Not yet determined
Class Features: Rune Implement Mastery

Those underlined are my ideas
Looks great to me. Dalor you've been awesome so far. You planning on helping me take this all the way up? I won't complain that's for sure, looks like you have a handle on how the classes work in this edition.
Looks great to me. Dalor you've been awesome so far. You planning on helping me take this all the way up? I won't complain that's for sure, looks like you have a handle on how the classes work in this edition.

Ill help were i can. I can build class and such for this edition, i just either make them too powerful or too weak since im a bad balancer. :D

Edit: so how are we gona have the rune implement thing work?
I would really like to have a class, and my thought on the class would be that they would get Runes as building blocks to their powers. It would be a versatile class (maybe too much so), able to combine runes during combat to build their powers on the spot. Add one rune to this other rune and you get this at-will power. Add a different second rune to the first and get a different at-will power. Add a third rune for an added effect (like pushing) that diminishes one of the previous effects (like damage).It would have to be a tightly controlled class, otherwise it would be too easy to abuse obviously. Any thoughts on either of the above ideas or the class idea?

I had this EXACT same idea . I tried to think of a way to do this without unbalancing versatility, but had no great ideas. Just now, I had a few thoughts: runes could be expendable, but you can prepare a certain number after a short rest, and a certain number after an extended rest. You could then maybe use 2 for an at will power, 3 for an encounter power and 4 for a daily (or some other numbers that make more sense ) with an effect on the at wills that the runes are not expended, or you can cast the at wills without runes, you just draw them in the air and/or they do less/can have a smaller number of effects. This kind of messes with the at will encounter daily system, blending the types somewhat, but there could be some runes you can only make during an extended rest, or can only use once per day (possibly some runes that could only be used once per encounter too). This could be hard to balance, but that's probably inevitable with a rune casting class unless you do something similar to the warlock's pacts. The implements could be more powerful permanent runes that provide a constant benefit with different types of powers. You could have to hold the runes in order to cast with them, and there could be some class feature encounter type runes that have a bonus and a drawback, that you can add to any power. Your choice of powers could be your choice of which types of runes and how many of them you can prepare.

Anyway, just listing a bunch of ideas, I don't know how much of that is useful or makes sense, but I thought I'd add my thoughts. One other thing could be a ritual caster class feature (they seem like good candidates for this) with an ability to add runes to the ritual, adding effects or decreasing casting time/cost.
Thanks for the ideas and input Paul, we'll take a look at some of those ideas as possibilities for sure.

As for the Rune Implements, I'm thinking that we could do something similar to Warlock pacts like Paul suggested. Maybe certain powers will react in some special way if it falls under your specific Rune Mastery. In fact maybe we could mix it up a little? The implements would represent your overall specialty, and you would still have expendable runes that you would have to resupply to cast the spells (except At-Wills since we established that they are quick and dirty with the runes being traced into the air).

I was thinking along the lines of class specific feats too. This is where we could get the stiched and/or tattooed 'Runes' so to speak. Each feat would be a new rune that you have on your clothing, or tattooed, or carved on your staff, what have you, and it would represent your feat.

Thoughts?

Btw, sorry for the delayed response, couldn't get to a computer for a little while there, busy day!
Kinda off topic but, what rune types will there be (ex: fire, water...)? and what will each of the rune types focus on (ex: fire does ongoing damage, water slides...)?
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