H1-H3: Demon Prince of Undeath Conversion

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Hey thanks again. I will definitely check it out. One more question are you going to do conversions for the whole series of modules or stop at H? Cause I want to see more of your work I really enjoy the backstory you created. I have one concern about the backstory it seems that the players will never find out about the entire story because all the info (in most adventures) is in notes and letters and they dont experience it themselves. You fixed this issue a littel with the Rod of Ruin giving them flashbacks. I was wondering how you handle all the "fluff" info to your players?
Hey thanks again. I will definitely check it out. One more question are you going to do conversions for the whole series of modules or stop at H? Cause I want to see more of your work I really enjoy the backstory you created. I have one concern about the backstory it seems that the players will never find out about the entire story because all the info (in most adventures) is in notes and letters and they dont experience it themselves. You fixed this issue a littel with the Rod of Ruin giving them flashbacks. I was wondering how you handle all the "fluff" info to your players?

In the section Nimozaran's Knowledge the players will finally learn the full story of Karavakos and what happened 300 years before. In Paldemar's Diary in H2 the characters will be able to put together some understanding of what have happened in recent time in Thunderspire Mountain. However, I had the intention to do a side story down to the real ruins of the minotaur kingdom where the players would find out the background to the genocide of the minotaurs and Orcus presence. I never had the time to finish that part so I took it away. I will probably do it for my own campaign instead, as most of you guys already are far into H2 already.
I have now added the River Rat Encounter (p.19-20, new map on p.31), which finalize the encounters I was planning to add to Fallcrest.
Next step will be to look closer to the actual adventure and see if it needs some tweaking somewhere, as well as looking at the end of the Rod of Ruin and how it interacts with the Pyramid of Shadows.

Show
PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN HERE -
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY PLAYING THE ADVENTURES

H1 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H1-H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H2 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H2_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H3 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

I you want to read our game chronicles you may find them at:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/index.htm
I sat down and try to come up with something new that would make the Rod of Ruin a memorable experience in the Pyramid of Shadows. After throwing away a number of general (not very new) ideas - I got one that I think could be really cool, based on the latest Revenant race in Dragon Magazine 376 (Revenants are resilient souls returned from death to do the work of fate).

So this is the idea:
The Rod of Ruin was created under the guidance of Orcus to open gates to the Shadowfell in order to spread his armies and influence to the world of the living. Karavakos have managed to control the Rod of Ruin from within the pyramid, influencing the wielder of the Rod. Orcus does not like this. He wants Karavakos soul, as was the original agreement.

As the players step into the Pyramid of Shadows, the Rod of Ruin is instead influenced by Orcus who use it as a mean to bring his will into the demiplane which is the Pyramid of Shadows (normally outside his control).
The Rod and the wielder merges within the demiplane - becoming the will of Orcus - the means for him to reach his ends. The player suddenly have a new character to play while inside the Pyramid of Shadows - a revenant Invoker set on the task to kill Karavakos (in order for Orcus to finaly get a chance to get his hands on Karavakos soul). The rod's will literally take charge of the PC's body.

Effect:
- The player get a new character to use within the Pyramid of Shadows: a revenant Invoker
- The player retains his old character once he leaves the Pyramid of Shadows
- The original character gains XP for what his "new form" does
- If the new character dies, the Rod is destroyed and instead the original character wakes re-emerges with shadowy memories as from a strange dream
- A great opportunity for roleplaying "the Will of Orcus"

What do you guys out there think? Would it be cool? Should it be an Avenger instead of Invoker (more suiting but the Rod is probably with a wizard today and that would mean replacing a controller with a striker)?
I like the idea of letting the player try another class, i.e. getting a chance to try 4th Edition from a new angle without having to necessarily kill his current character.
Hey thanks for the feedback. I actually havent read all of your H2 conversion but it sounds like you did a good job in bringing the story to the players.
I think the character change is cool but would the player still have control over his character or would Orcus take over him? Honestly I wouldnt like a demon prince taking over my character and wouldnt Orcus be angry with the party for killing some of his servants (some of them twice) at this point or is he just using them to get to Karavakos? Otherwise I like the inclusion of the revenent here I think the revenents are a cool race.
Hey thanks for the feedback. I actually havent read all of your H2 conversion but it sounds like you did a good job in bringing the story to the players.
I think the character change is cool but would the player still have control over his character or would Orcus take over him? Honestly I wouldnt like a demon prince taking over my character and wouldnt Orcus be angry with the party for killing some of his servants (some of them twice) at this point or is he just using them to get to Karavakos? Otherwise I like the inclusion of the revenent here I think the revenents are a cool race.

Yes the player have control - but he will be playing a new character (I will give them some new memories from the revenant soul) but still with the memories of his original character (almost like playing the Rod dominating your own character). As for Orcus - he is after Karavakos soul, he is using the players as a mean for achieving this goal. But he could of course come with some threats about steping into his path again.
I sat down and try to come up with something new that would make the Rod of Ruin a memorable experience in the Pyramid of Shadows. After throwing away a number of general (not very new) ideas - I got one that I think could be really cool, based on the latest Revenant race in Dragon Magazine 376 (Revenants are resilient souls returned from death to do the work of fate).

So this is the idea:
The Rod of Ruin was created under the guidance of Orcus to open gates to the Shadowfell in order to spread his armies and influence to the world of the living. Karavakos have managed to control the Rod of Ruin from within the pyramid, influencing the wielder of the Rod. Orcus does not like this. He wants Karavakos soul, as was the original agreement.

As the players step into the Pyramid of Shadows, the Rod of Ruin is instead influenced by Orcus who use it as a mean to bring his will into the demiplane which is the Pyramid of Shadows (normally outside his control).
The Rod and the wielder merges within the demiplane - becoming the will of Orcus - the means for him to reach his ends. The player suddenly have a new character to play while inside the Pyramid of Shadows - a revenant Invoker set on the task to kill Karavakos (in order for Orcus to finaly get a chance to get his hands on Karavakos soul). The rod's will literally take charge of the PC's body.

Effect:
- The player get a new character to use within the Pyramid of Shadows: a revenant Invoker
- The player retains his old character once he leaves the Pyramid of Shadows
- The original character gains XP for what his "new form" does
- If the new character dies, the Rod is destroyed and instead the original character wakes re-emerges with shadowy memories as from a strange dream
- A great opportunity for roleplaying "the Will of Orcus"

What do you guys out there think? Would it be cool? Should it be an Avenger instead of Invoker (more suiting but the Rod is probably with a wizard today and that would mean replacing a controller with a striker)?
I like the idea of letting the player try another class, i.e. getting a chance to try 4th Edition from a new angle without having to necessarily kill his current character.

That's a great idea! Maybe if the PC wielding the rod is a controller, they should turn into an invoker, if the person wielding the rod is a striker like a warlock, they are changed to an avenger. But instead of radiant damage, would it be necrotic? Just a thought.

So once Karavakos is defeated, does that destroy the rod?
That's a great idea! Maybe if the PC wielding the rod is a controller, they should turn into an invoker, if the person wielding the rod is a striker like a warlock, they are changed to an avenger. But instead of radiant damage, would it be necrotic? Just a thought.

So once Karavakos is defeated, does that destroy the rod?

I was thinking of doing an example invoker but changing some of the powers description and damage source to be more "demonic" as you suggest.
And yes, once Karavakos is defeated and killed the Rod is finaly used to break down the pyramids enchantment from the inside in the same way as it was made to break down the borders between the world of the living and the Shadowfell. Thereby achieving its purpose twofolded.

Another good thing is that it might be possible to do some foreshadowing of some of the later adventures in the P and E serie, in the background memories of the revenant the player gets.
Awesome job on these conversions, they really add a lot even if you aren't trying to tie all three modules together. Could you consider editing your first post so that links for all the parts can be found there? It takes a bit of searching right now to find the link for Thunderspire. Thanks!!!

Never judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you judge them, you'll be a mile away from them, and you'll have their shoes.

Keep me up to date how it all ended. I am going to look into changing Paldemar. Another idea I had was to take away his insubstancial after getting blooded and maybe highten his damage capabilities instead. Maybe that could get him in line with other monsters at that level, or?

Sorry I didn't respond earlier to this, been very busy at work (where I usually check the forums). The players finally were able to defeat Kalarel, but not until after the rogue and warlord were knocked unconscious. Everyone used and action point, and most had used 1 if not 2 dailies on this guy. Kalarel was able to lock down the paladin for a bit with the call of the grave, thereby keeping any radiant damage from hitting him. All said and done, I don't think the group would have survived if I had left him with the full HP (and full insubstantial quality) and aura 5 (reduced it to aura 2).

One other thing I should mention, my group did not like the Rod of Ruin at all. They were all under the assumption that since Kalarel was wielding it in the keep, and since they were getting visions from it, it had to be completely evil and wanted to take over. When they got to the chasm that held the Horned Hold, the wizard decided to throw the rod into the river at the bottom, hoping it would be lost forever. When they encountered Kalarel, I had him wielding the Rod once again, since it is possible the Rod was carried to the Sea of Shadow, where it could once again be reclaimed.

The group struggled with what they should do with it after they defeated Kalarel again. They eventually decided to put it into a bag of holding, being careful to not actually touch it, but push it in with swords. They want to try and give it to the Mages of Saruun, hoping they can find a way to either destroy it or seal it off from the world. I figure if they do that, one of the Mages will end up getting corrupted by it, since they aren't good and might want to try and unlock any power it contains. (For some reason the group thinks they must be good aligned people since they're helping them out).
Sorry I didn't respond earlier to this, been very busy at work (where I usually check the forums). The players finally were able to defeat Kalarel, but not until after the rogue and warlord were knocked unconscious. Everyone used and action point, and most had used 1 if not 2 dailies on this guy. Kalarel was able to lock down the paladin for a bit with the call of the grave, thereby keeping any radiant damage from hitting him. All said and done, I don't think the group would have survived if I had left him with the full HP (and full insubstantial quality) and aura 5 (reduced it to aura 2).

One other thing I should mention, my group did not like the Rod of Ruin at all. They were all under the assumption that since Kalarel was wielding it in the keep, and since they were getting visions from it, it had to be completely evil and wanted to take over. When they got to the chasm that held the Horned Hold, the wizard decided to throw the rod into the river at the bottom, hoping it would be lost forever. When they encountered Kalarel, I had him wielding the Rod once again, since it is possible the Rod was carried to the Sea of Shadow, where it could once again be reclaimed.

The group struggled with what they should do with it after they defeated Kalarel again. They eventually decided to put it into a bag of holding, being careful to not actually touch it, but push it in with swords. They want to try and give it to the Mages of Saruun, hoping they can find a way to either destroy it or seal it off from the world. I figure if they do that, one of the Mages will end up getting corrupted by it, since they aren't good and might want to try and unlock any power it contains. (For some reason the group thinks they must be good aligned people since they're helping them out).

Thanks for the feedback. I will bring down the aura radius to 2 instead of 5, as well as remove the insubstansial ability once he gets bloodied, that would probably make him more appropriate for his level.
Awesome job on these conversions, they really add a lot even if you aren't trying to tie all three modules together. Could you consider editing your first post so that links for all the parts can be found there? It takes a bit of searching right now to find the link for Thunderspire. Thanks!!!

Done
Sorry I didn't respond earlier to this, been very busy at work (where I usually check the forums). The players finally were able to defeat Kalarel, but not until after the rogue and warlord were knocked unconscious. Everyone used and action point, and most had used 1 if not 2 dailies on this guy. Kalarel was able to lock down the paladin for a bit with the call of the grave, thereby keeping any radiant damage from hitting him. All said and done, I don't think the group would have survived if I had left him with the full HP (and full insubstantial quality) and aura 5 (reduced it to aura 2).

One other thing I should mention, my group did not like the Rod of Ruin at all. They were all under the assumption that since Kalarel was wielding it in the keep, and since they were getting visions from it, it had to be completely evil and wanted to take over. When they got to the chasm that held the Horned Hold, the wizard decided to throw the rod into the river at the bottom, hoping it would be lost forever. When they encountered Kalarel, I had him wielding the Rod once again, since it is possible the Rod was carried to the Sea of Shadow, where it could once again be reclaimed.

The group struggled with what they should do with it after they defeated Kalarel again. They eventually decided to put it into a bag of holding, being careful to not actually touch it, but push it in with swords. They want to try and give it to the Mages of Saruun, hoping they can find a way to either destroy it or seal it off from the world. I figure if they do that, one of the Mages will end up getting corrupted by it, since they aren't good and might want to try and unlock any power it contains. (For some reason the group thinks they must be good aligned people since they're helping them out).

I have now updated the description of the shadow lich version of Kalarel in H2 with the following:

Master’s Rebuke (while bloodied)
While bloodied Kalarel looses his shadow form, shadow glide, fly, phasing and insubstantial ability; but he also looses his vulnerability to radiant damage and his regeneration is unaffected by radiant damage.

Show
PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN HERE -
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY PLAYING THE ADVENTURES

H1 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H1-H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H2 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H2_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H3 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

I you want to read our game chronicles you may find them at:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/index.htm
hi again. I just had question about the Rod of Ruin. Being pretty important to the story, it seems essential for at least one PC to hold it. I was just curious how would you handle reluctant PCs to claim the rod of ruin even after the first battle with Kalarel? What if no one even wants to touch it?
I was thinking of doing an example invoker but changing some of the powers description and damage source to be more "demonic" as you suggest.
And yes, once Karavakos is defeated and killed the Rod is finaly used to break down the pyramids enchantment from the inside in the same way as it was made to break down the borders between the world of the living and the Shadowfell. Thereby achieving its purpose twofolded.

Another good thing is that it might be possible to do some foreshadowing of some of the later adventures in the P and E serie, in the background memories of the revenant the player gets.

Hey Myrhdraak,

Maybe something else you could consider for those players that really, really like their characters and don't want to play a revenant invoker is perhaps applying a "Will of Orcus" template on the character?
I was just curious how would you handle reluctant PCs to claim the rod of ruin even after the first battle with Kalarel? What if no one even wants to touch it?

I think that a good description of how the "thing in the portal" is desperately trying to grab the rod, right after it kills Kalarel, might be a good clue for PCs to take that away from the dungeon.

You can also say that it glows and pulses eeriely and describe that it somehow ressonates with the energy that was coming from the portal, pointing that it might be a good idea to take that as far from the shadowfell keep as possible. Perhaps you could ask the characters for an Arcana check to deliver this "insight".

OR you could put that same thing in the backstory and turn it into a quest. Perhaps the same quest that asks the players to investigate a possible death cult, asks them to return the Rod of Ruin (and if you want to go overboard, the church that asked them that is misteriously destroyed by the time they return). The stolen Rod of Ruin could also be the main reason why the church thinks that there is a death cult around.

Hope that helps!
Maybe something else you could consider for those players that really, really like their characters and don't want to play a revenant invoker is perhaps applying a "Will of Orcus" template on the character?

I would also love to see an option for this. I´ve had terrible experiences when messing with people´s characters. They tend to be so protective of their characters that any sign of "change" or "mess" with the core of their PCs, might be simply annoying. This is specially true since it doesn´t make sense to tell them that "it will be over soon", or considering the fact that, even if they KNOW it will be over soon, Pyramid of Shadows is a looooong module. Players might become bored or frustrated.

I love the idea, but I don´t think that it will work with every gaming group (surely not mine´s). I´d love to see an option for that. Perhaps a "temporary possession" that comes and goes when some specific situation occurs.

Just a thought!

Cheers!
Thanks yeah your description of how the Rod needs to be taken out of the Keep of the Shadowfell helps.
As for the character possession goes, maybe the whispers just get stronger at certain points in the Pyramid of Shadows and almost compels the character to do the rod's will (which is to free Karavakos I believe). Just my 2 cents.
Have now added some more information on the transformation of the Rod of Ruin to the Revenant of Ruin as the characters enter the Pyramid of Shadows (p.28-32). It also contains a detailed description of a Revenant Invoker for those of you who does not have the PHB II or Dragon Magazine 376. However, I would recommend anyone who wants to use this "twist" should try to get hold of them to get a better background story on the revenant and the invoker.

Show
PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN HERE -
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY PLAYING THE ADVENTURES

H1 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H1-H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H2 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H2_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H3 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

I you want to read our game chronicles you may find them at:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/index.htm
Hey Myrhdraak,

Maybe something else you could consider for those players that really, really like their characters and don't want to play a revenant invoker is perhaps applying a "Will of Orcus" template on the character?

Hmmm, I will se if I can think up an option where there is a battle between the character and the Rod of Ruin about control of the user. The drawback with that is that the players most likely will only throw away the rod as soon as that battle start = no fun.
My idea was to try to make the revenat a combination of the rod and the old character, i.e. the revenant is not utterly evil and demonic, rather the old character getting a darker streak and a strong dedication to upfill the goal of Orcus - killing Karavakos.
I think that a good description of how the "thing in the portal" is desperately trying to grab the rod, right after it kills Kalarel, might be a good clue for PCs to take that away from the dungeon.

You can also say that it glows and pulses eeriely and describe that it somehow ressonates with the energy that was coming from the portal, pointing that it might be a good idea to take that as far from the shadowfell keep as possible. Perhaps you could ask the characters for an Arcana check to deliver this "insight".

OR you could put that same thing in the backstory and turn it into a quest. Perhaps the same quest that asks the players to investigate a possible death cult, asks them to return the Rod of Ruin (and if you want to go overboard, the church that asked them that is misteriously destroyed by the time they return). The stolen Rod of Ruin could also be the main reason why the church thinks that there is a death cult around.

Hope that helps!

Some very good suggestions you have there. I will see if I can update H1 with them.
I would also love to see an option for this. I´ve had terrible experiences when messing with people´s characters. They tend to be so protective of their characters that any sign of "change" or "mess" with the core of their PCs, might be simply annoying. This is specially true since it doesn´t make sense to tell them that "it will be over soon", or considering the fact that, even if they KNOW it will be over soon, Pyramid of Shadows is a looooong module. Players might become bored or frustrated.

I love the idea, but I don´t think that it will work with every gaming group (surely not mine´s). I´d love to see an option for that. Perhaps a "temporary possession" that comes and goes when some specific situation occurs.

Just a thought!

Cheers!

I have a number of players that just loves to play characters with a "dark streak" in them. Have had some bad experience from it as it might ruin team spirit in the group - especially with the old alignment system.
However, I think this could be cool if some effort is put in the backstory of the revenant. Allowing the player to get some insights from the revenant as well as control of the character, allowing them to play it as before but with somewhat a mysterious tweak towards darkness and Orcus.
Man, you just made me see it through a whole differente light. I´m not gonna "change" the character. I´m just gonna turn him into his version of the "Dark Phoenix"!

(I see this as a version of the same characters, that looks just like him, but the colors on his clothes get darker, his hair gets darker and his skin gets whiter. The eyes might be red, and he might develop a white streak in his hair - just to look so damn cool! I know it´s a bit too comic book, but my players will dig it). ;)

This way, the player won´t feel like it´s a differente character. Just a darker version of himself, and that might actually be very COOL!

Thanks, man! That´s a great idea!

Cheers,
Marcio
Man, you just made me see it through a whole differente light. I´m not gonna "change" the character. I´m just gonna turn him into his version of the "Dark Phoenix"!

(I see this as a version of the same characters, that looks just like him, but the colors on his clothes get darker, his hair gets darker and his skin gets whiter. The eyes might be red, and he might develop a white streak in his hair - just to look so damn cool! I know it´s a bit too comic book, but my players will dig it). ;)

This way, the player won´t feel like it´s a differente character. Just a darker version of himself, and that might actually be very COOL!

Thanks, man! That´s a great idea!

Cheers,
Marcio

Yes the Dark Phoenix is a good comparison.
I just want to congratulate you for all the effort you are putting in this, keep up the good work ñ_ñ
this is most excellent. I haven't tried KotS at all yet, even though I bought it a while back. The whole thing was a bit too straight forward for even a beginning group I think but this conversion takes it to a whole new level. I can't wait to try it out.

I have a question tho. Normally the KotS module brings players from lvl 1 to lvl 3. Now with all this added stuff (which is, i must say again, excellent), won't that make players about lvl 5 or 6 when they get to the Cathedral, making the final two battles a breeze?
this is most excellent. I haven't tried KotS at all yet, even though I bought it a while back. The whole thing was a bit too straight forward for even a beginning group I think but this conversion takes it to a whole new level. I can't wait to try it out.

I have a question tho. Normally the KotS module brings players from lvl 1 to lvl 3. Now with all this added stuff (which is, i must say again, excellent), won't that make players about lvl 5 or 6 when they get to the Cathedral, making the final two battles a breeze?

It is not sure all the encounters are going to be needed in you game. My group did not spot the secret cult ib Winterhaven or Ninaran as an example. As a DM you will have to keep track of their level of course, maybe cut down on random encounters to keep it in check.
hey i was wondering if you were do some conversions for P1 to continue the story and maybe add some stuff to the modules cause I like all the backstory you did so far. Great work on everything so far!
hey i was wondering if you were do some conversions for P1 to continue the story and maybe add some stuff to the modules cause I like all the backstory you did so far. Great work on everything so far!

Yeah! I second that!
hey i was wondering if you were do some conversions for P1 to continue the story and maybe add some stuff to the modules cause I like all the backstory you did so far. Great work on everything so far!

Yes I will look into tying together H3 and P1, I have already added some elements in the Karavakos background story. I will give it some more thought to see if it could become a more natural continuation on H3.
Any suggestions or ideas are as always appreciated.
I don´t know if you´re familiar with Sly Flourish, but that´s a pretty good blog too: http://slyflourish.com/

It offers great insight and it also addresses some issues in the adventures:

http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-keep-on-the-shadowfell/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-thunderspire-labyrinth/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-the-pyramid-of-shadows/
http://slyflourish.com/fou-tips-for-king-of-the-trollhaunt-warrens/

In the P1 tips post, they suggest that Prince Etheran Perenon be introduced before, during one of the H modules, and that he creates a bond to the PCs. This way, his death would be way more shocking to the players, and that alone could set the ball rolling. Could that be a starting point?

I´ll still read more of the module, but as soon as I do, I´ll post some ideas on how we can link the adventures together.

Cheers!
I don´t know if you´re familiar with Sly Flourish, but that´s a pretty good blog too: http://slyflourish.com/

It offers great insight and it also addresses some issues in the adventures:

http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-keep-on-the-shadowfell/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-thunderspire-labyrinth/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-the-pyramid-of-shadows/
http://slyflourish.com/fou-tips-for-king-of-the-trollhaunt-warrens/

In the P1 tips post, they suggest that Prince Etheran Perenon be introduced before, during one of the H modules, and that he creates a bond to the PCs. This way, his death would be way more shocking to the players, and that alone could set the ball rolling. Could that be a starting point?

I´ll still read more of the module, but as soon as I do, I´ll post some ideas on how we can link the adventures together.

Cheers!

In another thread on this series, someone mentioned bringing Etheran and his group into Thunderspire mountain looking for a relic that could reverse the effects of one of the later modules (P3). Raise dead rituals stop working in that module, and the idea was that the group was to be out looking for a relic that would help communicate with the Raven Queen to find out why the raise dead ritual did not work. This helps bring in a connection to 2 modules at once. I even directed some of them to this thread for ideas.

I brought the group into the Halfmoon, and had a couple female dragonborn in the group along with Bax (I think that's the dragonborn friends name) and Etheran, hoping the 2 dragonborn in my group's party might try to strike up a conversation with them. They didn't seem at all interested in them - why does my group hate me so much they can't even take a hint at a story element? It was the halfling in the group (of all people) that actually started talking to them. Bax and the halfling had a good conversation over a pitcher of ale. I'm going to try and use their connection for P1, but wasn't able to build much more than a passing knowledge of Ehteran.
I have added a 10th level on the Revenant of Ruin character path (see page 32), and then I have started on writing down some Player's Handouts refering to the memories of the Rod, which they aquire as the rod merges with them forming the revenant. (page 33).
I hope this will help the players find the spirit of their "new" character as well as giving some insights into the background of Karavakos and foreshadowing of some of the events in the future adventure path.
I will write more to tie in the other adventures in the series. Any wishes?

Show
PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN HERE -
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY PLAYING THE ADVENTURES

H1 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H1-H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H2 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H2_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H3 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

I you want to read our game chronicles you may find them at:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/index.htm
Well I do not really have to add something to the topic but I just wanted to say Thank You! to you Myrhdraak for the excellent work you are doing here. WotC should employ you for making the work they should have done themselves
I have added a 10th level on the Revenant of Ruin character path (see page 32), and then I have started on writing down some Player's Handouts refering to the memories of the Rod, which they aquire as the rod merges with them forming the revenant. (page 33).
I hope this will help the players find the spirit of their "new" character as well as giving some insights into the background of Karavakos and foreshadowing of some of the events in the future adventure path.
I will write more to tie in the other adventures in the series. Any wishes?

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PLEASE NOTE THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS IN HERE -
DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO ENJOY PLAYING THE ADVENTURES

H1 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H1-H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H2 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H2_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

H3 Conversion Guide:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/Documents/H3_Orcus_Conversion.pdf

I you want to read our game chronicles you may find them at:
http://web.comhem.se/mwester/Shadowfell/index.htm

Hey Myrhdraak,

Could the revenant have a history that ties up with Sartine? I guess Sartine is part of the P3 Assualt on Nightwyrm Fortress adventure. Don't really know much about her other then she discarded her mortal shell when she went into the Shadowfell in search of the Raven Queen. Maybe the Revenant is Sartine? Don't know much about the person but perhaps someone reading this post can bring more info to light concerning Sartine?
Hey Myrhdraak,

Could the revenant have a history that ties up with Sartine? I guess Sartine is part of the P3 Assualt on Nightwyrm Fortress adventure. Don't really know much about her other then she discarded her mortal shell when she went into the Shadowfell in search of the Raven Queen. Maybe the Revenant is Sartine? Don't know much about the person but perhaps someone reading this post can bring more info to light concerning Sartine?

I was actually thinking of making the soul that empowers the Rod of Ruin to be Thrullzon, the former exarch of Orcus an former head of the Rotting Throne. This will give the PCs some valuable insights into P2 the Demon Queen's Enclave as well as learning that there is a third border to the Shadowfell in Nentir Vale (except the two ones' they have already shut down), the later being deep down in the Underdark. This adventure is only 3 levels away so it is closer in time - memory wise for the players, which I think might be a benefit. P2 is maybe also the hardest adventure to tie in as it suddenly demands the players to go into the Underdark, without a really strong meaning.
I don´t know if you´re familiar with Sly Flourish, but that´s a pretty good blog too: http://slyflourish.com/

It offers great insight and it also addresses some issues in the adventures:

http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-keep-on-the-shadowfell/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-thunderspire-labyrinth/
http://slyflourish.com/three-tips-for-the-pyramid-of-shadows/
http://slyflourish.com/fou-tips-for-king-of-the-trollhaunt-warrens/

In the P1 tips post, they suggest that Prince Etheran Perenon be introduced before, during one of the H modules, and that he creates a bond to the PCs. This way, his death would be way more shocking to the players, and that alone could set the ball rolling. Could that be a starting point?

I´ll still read more of the module, but as soon as I do, I´ll post some ideas on how we can link the adventures together.

Cheers!

Slyfourish has some great input in the blog. I will look into maybe building something based on some of the suggestions. However, I am not sure I will use the Prince Etheran Perenon introduction at all. It feels a little bit too far fetched.
I am more thinking of using Vyrellis as a way into the Feywild from the Pyramid of Shadows, were they learn about the troll activities and how Karavakos used the trolls to enter the Feywild. The cauldron will instead play a central part of the story as it will potentially allow Karavakos to be reborn as a "ghost" to take up his former ambitions to dominate both the feywild and the world of the living.
In another thread on this series, someone mentioned bringing Etheran and his group into Thunderspire mountain looking for a relic that could reverse the effects of one of the later modules (P3). Raise dead rituals stop working in that module, and the idea was that the group was to be out looking for a relic that would help communicate with the Raven Queen to find out why the raise dead ritual did not work. This helps bring in a connection to 2 modules at once. I even directed some of them to this thread for ideas.

I brought the group into the Halfmoon, and had a couple female dragonborn in the group along with Bax (I think that's the dragonborn friends name) and Etheran, hoping the 2 dragonborn in my group's party might try to strike up a conversation with them. They didn't seem at all interested in them - why does my group hate me so much they can't even take a hint at a story element? It was the halfling in the group (of all people) that actually started talking to them. Bax and the halfling had a good conversation over a pitcher of ale. I'm going to try and use their connection for P1, but wasn't able to build much more than a passing knowledge of Ehteran.

P3 I think will be the most easiest adventure to include as from there on the Orcus tie becomes more obvious (as in E1 to E3). What I have been thinking is to actually deliberatly "kill" on of the characters in P2 and having them trying to use raise dead to save him or her, just to find out it is not working. That would be a rough awakening that something is seriously wrong, maybe forcing the player to take on a new character during P3, in order to bring back the original character (without having to fall 3 levels behind his or her party comrades). They question is how the party and the player would react to that? Will it be a really memorable experience, or would it just be very frustrating? What could be done to make it something really memorable (like Gilgamesh going down to Ereshikgal to collect his old friend Enkidu, or when Orpheus traveled to the underworld to recover his wife Eurydice).
To be 100% honest, Myrhdrak, I believe deliberately killing a character will be a very frustrating experience.

I´ve witnessed a well-intentioned DM kill a character in order to create a good story and the player who was playing the character in question still rages about it. He did not forgive the poor Dungeon Master. True story.

What would be a GREAT idea was to kill a VERY important NPC to the players. I would even suggest that you backtrack it and introduce him in KotS, or at least boost the importance of one of the NPCs in Winterhaven. I´ve had great experiences with NPCs that the party became fond of: cohorts, helpers, allies, romantic interests...

The key here is that the NPC must be beneficial to the party. Perhaps he took some great sacrifice to help the PCs, or perhaps he/she is the person who helps them sell magic items at great price, or give them shelter when they need... or even a great source of information on many subjetcts.

Killing an important NPC is good enough reason for them to quest in order to raise him (and failing would put them on the right track for the adventure). But killing a PC in a situation that was not "real" (or even just pushing it too hard) will only generate frustration and anger. It might even jeopardize the game.

Just my two cents in the jar!

Cheers!
Marcio
To be 100% honest, Myrhdrak, I believe deliberately killing a character will be a very frustrating experience.

I´ve witnessed a well-intentioned DM kill a character in order to create a good story and the player who was playing the character in question still rages about it. He did not forgive the poor Dungeon Master. True story.

What would be a GREAT idea was to kill a VERY important NPC to the players. I would even suggest that you backtrack it and introduce him in KotS, or at least boost the importance of one of the NPCs in Winterhaven. I´ve had great experiences with NPCs that the party became fond of: cohorts, helpers, allies, romantic interests...

The key here is that the NPC must be beneficial to the party. Perhaps he took some great sacrifice to help the PCs, or perhaps he/she is the person who helps them sell magic items at great price, or give them shelter when they need... or even a great source of information on many subjetcts.

Killing an important NPC is good enough reason for them to quest in order to raise him (and failing would put them on the right track for the adventure). But killing a PC in a situation that was not "real" (or even just pushing it too hard) will only generate frustration and anger. It might even jeopardize the game.

Just my two cents in the jar!

Cheers!
Marcio

Yes, you are probably right. Another idea I had was to introduce a more epic/apocalyptic element in P3 in order to show what would happen if Orcus would succeed with his ambitions in E1-E3. Some of the people that dies is not only unaffected by Raise Dead they are actually not staying dead (more like Night of the Living Dead). Returning to haunt their community and family as undead that can't be killed unless you burn them to ashes, or something like it. Common movie theme, but not something that you normally find in a D&D setting - but would fit in an Orcus inspired tale.
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