New Class: Summoner

156 posts / 0 new
Last post
Holding to my new general policy with my work, the details of this class will no longer be available on site. However, I have spent the last two days finding a PDF creator and a place to provide downloads from.

So, here is the link to the Summoner, all set up in a PDF. If you have any artwork you'd like to see in it, suggestions, or see any mistakes, please let me know. I'll still watch the thread for your comments.

The class, the Summoner, an arcane controller, who summons creatures to stand between him and his enemies.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
(Deleted)

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
(Deleted)

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
(Deleted)

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
(Deleted)

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
(Deleted)

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
I reserve judgement until I see some powers, most notably how you handle Encounter Powers. Normally, I would start out with skepticism, but I've seen you do good things with custom classes.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

any powers to go with this class?
any powers to go with this class?

Give him a minute. I know from experience that it takes a while to get everything formatted in forum code to make it easy to read.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

I'm working on powers as we speak. Should be another 15 minutes for at-wills.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
I've got 1st through 3rd level powers up. I could use some advice or suggestions here though.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Think I'm gonna swipe some of this for an encounter against my PC's

You mentioned that the summoner would use up his HP but none of the powers mention how many HP the summoner loses.
The summoner loses any HP that attacks would deal to his summons.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Firstly, I would like to say good job so far! The way you are handling the ability to summon creatures (as well as the elements) is unique and I think well conceived. I have some critiques, but keep in mind that I make them because I really want to see what all this class can become.

Clear Language: I am well aware that this is just the beginning of this class, but I would really appreciate it if the language used in the class was as clear as the language used in the PHB. This is really important for home-brew classes, because one person's interpretation and preconceived notions of the meaning of an expression may not be the same as another person's. For instance, we already had a question on "how Summoners give HP to their summons;" the language used in this class should be clear enough to avoid major questions such as that. ("How would this play out in layman's terms" is the sort of questions which are acceptable, IMO, but it would be best to try to avoid those too.)
Party Role: In my eyes, having an identified party role helps keep a class from doing too many cool/powerful things. To me, the Summoner appears to be a Controller. It does not make a true Leader because it does not help allies, only its minions. It does not truely fit the striker role because it hits multiple enimeis regularly. I feel that if you identified and focusd on a role for the Summoner, it could be better (more balanced, but still unique).
Secondary Targets: I noticed that a lot of your powers for the summoner mention secondary targets; I feel that this notiation is both confusing and innacurte. If a power is an attack power, the only targets it should list should be the recipient of an attack roll. So, for instance, the at-will powers would be Ranged 5 or whatever, like they are now, but before they had a Target line, the effect line would come up saying "Effect: You conjure a [blah] in a square within range." THEN the Target line would come up; in the case of Open Flame, it would read "Target: Each creature adjacent to the flame." Since the square in which the flame was summoned was not a target of an attack, there is no reason to list the first enemies being attacked as "secondary."
Orbs: I think that you should consider Orbs for another implement which the Summoner can use. Anybody who has played Lost Kingdoms would agree with me! :D

I have a few other specific suggestions, but I will wait until you digest these suggestions and make changes as you see fit. In the mean time, *subscribed.*
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
You do some great work you know. It's a cool way to approach a summoner, and I'll likely yoink it for some playtime should my group get together. (With me going to college we aren't meeting all that often)

You have some open codes and minor spelling errors. As for power level- This is a case that might be hard to judge without some testing.

Anyway: Are they gettng elites and solos? I mean I can see either ads a daily thing, however as far as encounters go it'll likely be too powerful to summon an elite. (then agian: A single character can take on an elite if required...)
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Wizardmon
I've clarified the language in the Summoning Keyword and added a few extra points.

I also agree that it is a controller, double so since I've started building the powers, but I wanted to leave it open for a little bit longer. I've noticed leaving the role open or calling something unusual like a Martial Controller tends to get peoples attention.

I've changed the powers the way you suggested. It does read smoother that way.

Do you have any ideas for Implement powers to go with the orb? And I'll have to look that Lost Kingdoms up.

Wyld Mutation
Check the 5th level powers. I just dropped a solo creature in there.


Added 5th level powers.
Also, I'm thinking the class features feel a little bland. Probably need to add one more. Any suggestions?

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
I think a Implement Tallent called "Orb of Enforcement" might be appropriate. Powers given by this feature would, in my mind, power up summoned creatures in a minor, but all the same useful, way.

Since the Summoner has ritual casting, it should get a ritual book for free, with 2 rituals for free. If you want, you can designate one or both of those free rituals, which should probably be rituals pertaining to summoning.

As for other class features, what immediately jumps to mind would be a Cantrip-like power that would allow you to summon a tiny sized creature to perform a task. You could format the power in the way that Prestidigitation is formated, and balance it against all 4 wizard cantrips combined. Perhaps some special Summoner feats could enhance the capabilities of this ability, or maybe it scales by teir, w/e. Having a "summon creature for a task" theme for Utility powers could also be a good idea.

As for clear language: its getting better. I wonder if it would be better to get all the powers done, then edit for clarity, or edit for clarity first so that copy-pasting of clear language can be done. What do you think?
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
I figure getting clear language is the most important thing. Ritual Book for free with a couple of rituals sounds good. Maybe straight out duplicate the wizard's spellbook for dailies.

The Cantrip power sound good too. I'll look into some ideas for it.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Leave the wizard with their spellbook unique. You don't want to dwarf them... It's not fun when you have the sub-optimal choice because something is strictly superior.

Instead give them something to represent their summoning. Make it distinct from the spellbook somehow.

Hmmm... I had an idea but it's hard to communicate... A "Book of Summoning Circles" which would contain all your daily spells, it would allow you to enhance your summons by changing the "formula" instead of granting you extra spells known.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Sounds interesting. I think that gives me a good idea. I'll elaborate when I expand it a bit.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
I agree with WD on this one. Give unto Wizards what is Wizardly, and give unto the Summoner that which Summons.
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
You only agree because you don't want to be a second-rate caster. But you already are, thanks to my Battle Sorceror!
[/joke]
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Okay here is the general idea. There 6 origins for monsters in the Monster Manual: Aberrant, Elemental, Fey, Immortal, Natural, and Shadow. Make each of these a keyword for summoning powers

Call the class feature Book of Origins. You choose an origin and gain some bonus when summoning creatures from that origin. You gain a second origin at 11th level, and a third at 21st. The perhaps a paragon feat to allow a 4th origin.

What do you think?

Edit: I'm headed for work. I'll try to stew some ideas together while I work and I'll probably throw them up with more powers tonight.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
The [possibilty I was thoinking (as an alternate because that is a great feature) is that you choose an origin and that origin "bleeds" into everything you summon.

So you could choose fey and your creatures would all be a little faster. See?
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
The [possibilty I was thoinking (as an alternate because that is a great feature) is that you choose an origin and that origin "bleeds" into everything you summon.

So you could choose fey and your creatures would all be a little faster. See?

THAT's an idea! Have a little bonus to your summoned creature based on the Book of Origin keyword you chose! I think that's a good idea. Maybe Fey creatures you summon can teleport when they move, or Elemental creatures have damage resistance against an energy keyword of your choosing when you summon it, and so on. You could gain one Origin per tier, with some limited selection at heroic tier. I think that being able to "spontaniously" make this choice would be good.

Perhaps making the ability to "embew" a creature with the essence of another plane be another "encounter" class feature? Then again, with all these power-features, this class should probably cool it...
Let your voice be heard! Tell WotC to Publish D&D 4e under the OGL!
I've included a Book of Origin feature along the line of Wyld's idea, but I expanded a bit beyond the just origins concept to include a few subtypes. I still need a bilities to fill a few of them if anybody has a suggestion. I've also included the Daily portion of the wizard's spellbook, and a few starting rituals. Since no currently existing ritual has a summoning flavor, I've left them open for the moment.

Additionally, I removed the Rod as an implement. The Orb now has the Rod's Implement abilities. I've added a new implement, the book. I'll need to create a few magical books when this class is complete.

Additionally, I've realized that I'd committed what I consider a cardinal sin of class creation. This class does not wear heavy armor and has no specific reason to boost Intelligence or Dexterity. So without a better idea, I'm converting all of the attacks to Intelligence for the moment.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Added 6th through 9th level powers now.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
First: Remove the extra daily spells. While they are cool it's too much in the wizard's territory.

For other effects:
Effect
Aberrant: Creature is immune to polymorph and charm.

Immortals: Immune to instant death. Or possibly they do not breathe? This one is a bit tricky... What is constant among Immortals?

Dragon: Gain breath weapon. That's pretty simple. Complete with recharge.

Shadow: Continuous concealment, and stealth as a skill. Basically just short of invisible... (All damage they deal is necrotic and cold?)

So again: Remove daily spells. It's too much "wizard" and allow them to cast "summoning" rituals at half cost instead... True there aren't any right now, but you can make some. How about "summonig and conjuration rituals"?

Edit: No conjurations yet... Make it Creation? Or a specific subset. Less elegant, but much easier to keep flavorful.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
I find this very interesting. The "damage conduit" from you to your summoned creature is cool, and remove the whole "meat shield" problem nicely. You may want to reduce the damage to 1/2 goes to the summoner instead of full though as that may be a short lived summoner who brings up a brute and gets killed 1/3 the way through its hps Of course maybe I read it wrong do they have HP or is it just yours? Intereting concept though why would the monsters have the same speed/defenses as the caster? I would think a brute would have an easier time hitting an opponent than the caster would? What about the defenses, why would an armored monster have a lower AC than normal for example? I can see it both ways of course, a slow monster is faster, a low AC brute has a higher AC etc., but it seems counter-intuitive.
Why do you have certain monster to call, why not just call X level monster instead and let the player pick a few monsters per level?
I like the utilities
Allowing a spell to summmon any level appropriate creature could be unbalancing. By allowing only a few ctreatures you reduce the chance of abuse.

Just an answer to why you summon only a few different creatures.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Wyld Mutation
Okay, I pulled the Daily Spells.

Also came up a with an Aberrant origin ability. Use a minot action to extend the reach of thre creatures attacks by 1 square.

Breath Weapon for the Dragon ability.

Concealment and Stealth for Shadow Origin.

Still not sure about Immortal though. The only thing I know is consistent is that the group includes angels and devils, creatures with strong ties to the gods.

As for rituals, I'll probably through together some conjuration or summoning based ones before I finish the class.

Kodyboy
1/2 HP transfered might work. Need to see what other people think. I had the same consideration myself early, which is why Constitution is considered a Key ability and the Staff ability can grant your Temporary HP.

The identical defenses were just a simplification made to reduce bookkeeping. All you have to do is know your own defenss and you can easily keep track of your summons abilities as well. Various creatures, if I feel they should have a defensive advantage over a typical summoner will have bonuses to their defenses. An example is the Daily 5 Young Black Dragon which grants you a +2 to your defenses, making it's defenses better as well. Then again, the Zombie Hulk has a -1 penalty to it's defense.

And Wyld has it right on balance issues with expanding the list to any monster of a certain level. This is part of the reason a Druid's Wild Shape and Polymorph were so broken in 3.5. Not all monster abilities are safe in the hands of players, and every new book with monsters in it would increase the versatility and power of the class.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Just trying to keep things unique for each class.

Immortals... Maybe Give them Channel divinity? Seriously. A single-use Channel Divinity, one with no alignment.

Of course that's just a thought.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Finished heroic powers ant Paragon powers through 15th level. Still working now, just thought I'd drop an update.

The question is, which Channel Divinity then? The only common thing I can find among the immortals is that they frequently have auras.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Make one.

If not then give them a minor aura. That would be pretty cool.

You spelled "Brute" wrong. I'm going over your stuff for open codes and misspellings.

Unoccupied is misspelled in mutiple places, and Carbunkle's recharge is misspelled.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
I have been using summoning as a daily power that summons one standard creature of your level. This has to be sustained (standard) but seems to work fine so far. I do not see anything in the monster manual that looks like it could break it, yet. I used the penalty of expending a healing surge when summoning a creature, but your idea of taking damage as the creature takes damage sounds better. I did not notice your bonuses/penalties to defense for the various creatures at first, that could make a difference, but it still seems easier to me to simply use the monsters stats.
I just have to say WOW
My only thought at the momnet is maybe a slight change to the Summoning Keyword.
My changes are in bold

A power with the Summoning keyword conjures a creature to fight for you. This creature or creatures acts on your turn, and must use your actions to function. To summon a creature you must first sacrifice at least 1 hp, this allows you to summon the creature as a minnion, you may sacrifine additional hps to add to it's at a 1 to 1 ratio. You may sacrifice HP in this manner as a free action. You and you allies may pass through their squaresunhindered and may flank enemies with them. Unless a power says otherwise, your summoned creatures use your defenses, movements speed, skill checks, and ability scores.You can use a minor action to dissmiss a creature you have summoned, removing it from the battle field.
-----Any effect capable of destroying a conjuration or a zone with destory a summoned creature.
That is already kinda figured in by the HP connection thing...

Just add "You may dismiss a summonig effect at any time even when not your turn (no action)" That would work...
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Kodyboy
Probably isn't anything right now, but it's safer this way, and it keeps things in check when more Monster Manuals come out. Additionally, it creates a situation where the summoner is the most versatile class available.

Lugritor
Wyld is right, the HP thing is already factored in.

Wyld Mutation
The dissmiss feature is built into the summoning keyword. I made it a minor action since, some the encounter summons remain for a turn as well. Dissmissing them for free removes this minor side effect.

Paragon powers are finished.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Just a way to make you less likely to get yourself killed on accident.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
All part of the risk characters take every day.

http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there

Cookie Collection
71235715 wrote:
Very, Very true...

This guy is coming along nicely.
I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both rational and instinctive. I value self-knowledge and understanding of the world; my ultimate goal is self-improvement and improvement of the world around me. At best, I am focused and methodical; at worst, I am obsessive and amoral.
Sign In to post comments