New Class: The Blue Mage

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Holding to my new general policy with my work, the details of this class will no longer be available on site.

So, here is the link to the Blue Mage, all set up in a PDF. If you have any artwork you'd like to see in it, suggestions, or see any mistakes, please let me know. I'll still watch the thread for your comments.

The class, the Blue Mage, an arcane warrior with no set and determined role, able to copy his foes and his allies abilities.

Lugritor still has his PDf, the original, with pictures. Blue Mage. (Lugritor, if you take it down, let me know and I'll remove the link.)

Is has a few edits now.
- I removed the option to use ranged weapons on many of the powers
- I altered the name of Taste Some of your Own Medicine

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71235715 wrote:
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71235715 wrote:
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71235715 wrote:
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71235715 wrote:
Blue Mage

Role: Varies
Power Source: Arcane
Key Abilities: Charisma, Intelligence, Strength

So far its good, aside from natural leeriness about multiple roles in one class. Still I like the concept of the Blue Mage.
Armor: Cloth, Leather, Hide
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged
Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 Will

Still seems pretty decent.
Hit Points at 1st level: 12 + Constitution score
HP per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

12/6 is Striker HP/Healing Surge and the most middle of the line, I would be tempted to make him a full striker (in role typing) and let him dabble at the others, but I don't know to be honest.
Trained Skills: From the list below, choose four.
Arcana, Dungeoneering, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion, Streetwise

Add on Bluff or Diplomacy and Atheltics. That way he has some for all his abilities, and more than one for Charisma.
Build Options: Blue Warrior, Blue Wizard
Class Features: Vast Knowledge, I know That Trick, Blue Mage Tactics


Vast Knowledge
When making a skill check to identify an enemy, you gain a +2 bonus to the check. This increases to +4 at 11th level, and +6 at 21st level.

Doesn't seem unbalanced par say and interesting.
I Know That Trick
You have a +2 bonus to your defenses against any power or monster attack that you currently are able to use.

Fairly mundane I like it.
Blue Mage Tactics
Blue Warrior: You gain proficiency with one martial military weapon of your choice and a +1 bonus to hit when using this weapon.
Blue Wizard: You have the ability to use the wizard cantrips Light and Mage Hand.

I think this is pretty decent and even.
Implements
A Blue Mage is able to use wands, rods, and staffs as implements. When using a power gained through a power with the Enemy Skill keyword, a Blue Mage may apply the enhancmenet bonus from either his implement or his weapon at his discretion.

do you plan on making a 'Enemy Weapon' type thing like the Pact blade? Otherwise this puts the Blue Warrior behind a bit.
Mystic Strike
With a quick spell, you imbue your weapon with a small bit of magic to enhance it's accuracy.
At-Will * Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action * Melee or Ranged Weapon
Target: 1 creature
Attack: Strength +1 vs. AC
-----Increase to Strength +2 at 21st level.
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier
-----Increase to 2[W] + Strength modifier at 21st level.

Seems odd that it increases to Str+2 It seems like Sure Strike and that Ranger power, might be better to start it at Str+2
Mystic Blast
Gathering your magic, you launch an assault of your foe from a distance.
At-Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action * Range 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack: 2d4 + Charisma modifier damage.
-----Increase to 4d4 + Charisma modifier damage at 21st level.

Toss on 'counts a basic ranged attack'. Otherwise a bit underpar of the Magic Missile which is where it should be.
Melee Talent
At-Will * Arcane, Enemy Skill
After witnessing your foe attack, you completely understand how it was performed, enabling you to duplicate it.
Immediate Reaction * Personal
Prerequisite: You must have successfully identified the type of creature using the attack.
Trigger: You are struck by an at-will melee attack, or are adjacent to creature using an at-will attack or at-will power.
Effect: Make a skill check using the skill associated with the triggering creatures type. The DC for this check is 20 + 1/2 the creatures level. Add +1 to the DC for every 10 levels the creature has (+1 at 11. +2 at 21, +3 at 31). If you succeed on this check, you may use the power that triggered it until you use this power again.

As this is the heart of the class I will now induce Mathmode to test the DC
1st level creature: DC 20
1st level BlueMage bonus: 5(trained)+3(skillfocus)+2(racial)+5(attribute) = +15 at best 75% expected is 5(trained)+3(attribute) = +8 so 60% This stays more or less the expected, except that level 11 it drops to 55% (though the odds of having Skill Focus increases), and at level 21 drops to 50% (though I bet most will have skill focus for all the knowledge skills).

As it stands, Nature, Arcana, and Religion will almost always be selected by a blue mage.

Ranged Talent
At-Will * Arcane, Enemy Skill
After witnessing the wizard launch his attack, you completely understand how it was performed, and are able to duplicate it.
Immediate Reaction * Personal
Prerequisite: You must have successfully identified the type of creature using the attack.
Trigger: You are stuck by an at-will ranged power, or are adjacent to a creature using an at-will attack or at-will power.
Effect: Make a skill check using the skill associated with the triggering creatures type. The DC for this check is 20 + 1/2 the creatures level. Add +1 to the DC for every 10 levels the creature has (+1 at 11. +2 at 21, +3 at 31). If you succeed on this check, you may use the power that triggered it until you use this power again.

Merge this into the one above, unless its your intent to basically have no other at wills unless human. Really I am strongly tempted to say turn them into class features simply because of Dilettante.

Flaming Weapon
Encounter * Arcane, Weapon, Fire
Channelling fire magic through your blade, you set it aflame before you make your attack.
Standard Action * Melee or Ranged Weapon
Target: 1 creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier fire damage.

Minor thing, put Dex vs AC for ranged, heavy thrown specifically allows this to be overwritten but as is, for some reason when I am using a crossbow I get to use strength.
Thundering Attack
Encounter * Arcane, Weapon, Thunder
You enhance your weapon with the power of thunder before you attack.
Standard Action * Melee or Ranged Weapon
Target: 1 creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier thunder damage and the target is knocked prone and pushed 1 square.

Same with this one, knock prone or pushed 2 squares, I dislike both affects as prone remove movement.
Freezing Blast
Encounter * Arcane, Implement, Cold
You unleash a frezzing blast of cold air that slows your foes down.
Standard Action * Close Blast 5
Target: All creatures in the blast
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence cold damage and the targets are slowed.

Until your next turn or (save ends) after slowed. Blast 3 I would be more comfortable with, but its probably ok at blast 5.
Encounter Talent
Encounter * Arcane, Enemy Skill
Witnessing your foe using his powerful attack, you manipulate the magic around you to duplicate it.
Immediate Reaction * Personal
Prerequisite: You must have successfully identified the type of creature using the attack.
Trigger: You are stuck by an encounter power, or are adjacent to a creature using an encounter power.
Effect: Make a skill check using the skill associated with the triggering creatures type. The DC for this check is 20 + 1/2 the creatures level. Add +1 to the DC for every 10 levels the creature has (+1 at 11. +2 at 21, +3 at 31). If you succeed on this check, you may use the power that triggered it until you use this power again.

How about 10/15/20 for the DC for at will/encounter/daily. This way dailies are the hardest to pick up and at wills are pretty easy, then you can remove their other at wills and they have ot pick them up from a monster (except humans), and can really replace the encounter and daily too, make them earn it. Though thats probably a bit harsh.
1st level Daily Spells
Acid Blast
Daily * Arcane, Implement, Acid
You unleah a blast of acid.
Standard Action * Close Blast 3
Target: All creatures in the blast
Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier acid damage.
Miss: Half damage.

See this is why I think the cold one should be close blast 3. As is the freezing blast affects 16 more squares, and deals 2 less damage per target AND slows them.
Dazing Strike
Daily * Arcane, Weapon, Lightning
Your strike dazes your foe with a jolt of electricity.
Standard Action * Melee or Range Weapon
Target: 1 creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier lightning and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Miss: 1/2 damage and the target suffers a -1 penalty to hit until the end fo your next turn.

I would up this to Stunned on hit, Dazed on Miss, but I like Stunning things.
Daily Talent
Daily * Arcane, Enemy Skill
As your foe unleashes his most powerful ability, you are studying it, ready to unleash it yourself.
Immediate Reaction * Personal
Prerequisite: You must have successfully identified the type of creature using the attack.
Trigger: You are stuck by an encounter power with a recharge or by a daily power, or are adjacent to a creature using an encounter recharge power or daily power.
Effect: Make a skill check using the skill associated with the triggering creatures type. The DC for this check is 20 + 1/2 the creatures level. Add +1 to the DC for every 10 levels the creature has (+1 at 11. +2 at 21, +3 at 31). If you succeed on this check, you may use the power that triggered it until you use this power again.[/sblock]

See my notes above.
2nd Level Utility Spells
Skill Duplication
Encounter * Arcane, Enemy Skill
With a touch, you steal knowledge from your target, allowing you to be as capable as they are.
Minor Action * Adjacent creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
-----Special: A willing target is automatically affected by this power.
Hit: Pick one of the target's skill modifiers. You may use modifier in place of your own for your next skill check using that skill.

I dislike utilities with attacks in them, but this is still firmly a utility power, so I guess its alright.
Elemental Ward
Encounter * Arcane
You just manage to erect a ward in time to protect yourself from an attack.
Immediate Interrupt * Personal
Trigger: You are struck by an attack with the fire, cold, lightning, thunder, or acid keyword.
Effect: You gain resistance to the triggering damage type equal to your Charisma modifier until the beginning of your next turn. If the power has multiple damage types, you gain resistance to all of them.

Seems decent enough.
Just Close Enough
Encounter * Arcane, Teleportation
With a sudden teleport, you jump adjacent to an enemy so you can duplicate his ability.
Immediate Interrupt * Personal
Trigger: A creature within 3 squares makes an attack, or uses an at-will power or encounter power.
Effect: You may teleport up to three squares, and must be adjacent to the triggering creature.

and must end adjacent to the triggering creature (to keep it in line from what I recall of teleport powers).
Mystic Strike neede something interesting to make it different than a basic attack. Making it start as +2 actually makes it better than the ranger and fighter powers, since they don't add a stat to damage with them.

That was the idea with Thundering Attack. You knock them down and back, to ensure they can't counter attackmon the next turn.

Dropped Freezing Blast to blast 3 and correct the Dexterity issue on ranged attacks.

I wanted to keep the ranged and basic at-will skill thefts seperate to provide some diversity among the class. If you want to be fron-line, you grab the Blue Warrior tactics, take Melee Talent and Mystic Strike to specialize in picking in melee. The Blue Mage takes Mystic Blast and Ranged Talent to specialize in staying back. If you want to be nice and generic, you grab both talents and have only your basic attack until you steel something. Or you could have a warrior pick up Mystic Strike and Ranged Talent. Then he fights in the front line, byt when an enemy controller blasts him, he retaliates with the same attack.

Since the skill check is based on seperate skills I calculated the check as Intelligence based and having roughly 16 starting. Not counting Skill Focus and Racial bonuses, making these beneficial, and putting points into Intelligence keeps the necessary roll as roughly 11 to 12 throughout your career. Of course, the Wisdom based skills (Dungeoneering and Nature) would fall behind a bit, requiring Skill Focus to help keep up.

As for the roll, if you don't have good starting stats for the proper skill, mastering abilities could already be difficult. So leaving it flat across the board seems fair. Maybe a 5 point increase for Daily level powers.

Finally, the roll really can vary. With enough Healing Surges expended, you can maintain powers from any role. Though the natural nature of the class is probably strikerish. I am considering increasing the total healing surges to allow a bit more use of that part of the clas though.

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71235715 wrote:
Mystic Strike neede something interesting to make it different than a basic attack. Making it start as +2 actually makes it better than the ranger and fighter powers, since they don't add a stat to damage with them.

I always forget that is a personal houserule to make them useful.
That was the idea with Thundering Attack. You knock them down and back, to ensure they can't counter attackmon the next turn.

I'm just thinking compared to most powers at level 1 its a tad overpowered, but that's a little harder for me to gauge to be honest, as there is no true single target controller (which is where that power falls). In a way it makes up for the lack of marking. So it might be ok.
I wanted to keep the ranged and basic at-will skill thefts seperate to provide some diversity among the class. If you want to be fron-line, you grab the Blue Warrior tactics, take Melee Talent and Mystic Strike to specialize in picking in melee. The Blue Mage takes Mystic Blast and Ranged Talent to specialize in staying back. If you want to be nice and generic, you grab both talents and have only your basic attack until you steel something. Or you could have a warrior pick up Mystic Strike and Ranged Talent. Then he fights in the front line, byt when an enemy controller blasts him, he retaliates with the same attack.

See here is the underlying problem with them as at will attacks:
Half Elves now have the perfect power to hoist. Its like I tell people with their summons, at will attacks need to be pretty mundane, if you make something that is noticeably above the mark power wise, then you have just given the Half Elf race something that will Always been chosen. I would suggest moving them to class features (the two at wills), specifically because of Half Elves.
Since the skill check is based on seperate skills I calculated the check as Intelligence based and having roughly 16 starting. Not counting Skill Focus and Racial bonuses, making these beneficial, and putting points into Intelligence keeps the necessary roll as roughly 11 to 12 throughout your career. Of course, the Wisdom based skills (Dungeoneering and Nature) would fall behind a bit, requiring Skill Focus to help keep up.

Yeah, it generally stays 11-12 which is a 45-50% chance, at wills are noticeable weaker, allowing them on 15 (which would be 6+ or 75% of the time), probably wouldn't hurt too much. The encoutners at 20 then Daily at 25. Thoguh I worry about that, as I know if I played a blue mage I would select those abilities for Encounter and Daily powers, and it makes the Daily not useable much as people don't use dailies a lot, but with it allowing recharges it might be ok.
As for the roll, if you don't have good starting stats for the proper skill, mastering abilities could already be difficult. So leaving it flat across the board seems fair. Maybe a 5 point increase for Daily level powers.

MAybe, but I like the idea of the +5/type, simply because it adds flavor.
Finally, the roll really can vary. With enough Healing Surges expended, you can maintain powers from any role. Though the natural nature of the class is probably strikerish. I am considering increasing the total healing surges to allow a bit more use of that part of the clas though.

Why would you need to spend a healing surge? Its not listed in your powers to maintain it, and would make them substantially weaker if it was.
I see where I made a mistake. I didn't post the rule text behind the Enemy Skill keyword. It got cut out while I was pasting into the thread. I'll edit it back in, but here it is as well.

Enemy Skill - When using a skill with this keyword, you typically gain the use of an ability that targeted you. If the ability is an at-will, you use it as an at-will. If it an encounter power without a recharge, you use it as an encounter power. If the ability is an encounter power with a recharge or a daily power, you gain the use of the power as an encounter power with recharge or a daily as appropriate.
-----At the end of the encounter, you may expend a healing surge to maintain access to the power until your next extended rest. After an extended rest, you may again expend a healing surge to maintain access to the power.


I wouldn't think it would be too useful for a half-elf. You still need the skill check and your just getting access to an at-will power. I could make them class features though. Any suggestions for other at-wills to replace them? or maybe just a line specifying that half-elves can't take them?

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71235715 wrote:
Move them to class features, Wizards at the least get Arcana trained and a wizard with the buff of the Kobold Wyrmpriest is powerful.

As for replacements: Ummm, you need a minion power at will (as the defender, controller, and leader gets one from my books). So something to control minions by dealing a minor amount of damage to several targets.
*claps* I'm so glad, this takes on the concept that I wanted to do - a ditto thing where if you were, say attacked by a lion then you'd get claws and sharp teeth and stuff.

Keep at it, lets see Daily 5 -29 powers, haha!
Okay, they are class features now. Added the at-wills SHockwave Strike and Lightning Blast to replace them.

RoCkEtInToXiCaTe
The flavor as written isn't actually shape changing here, so much as magically reproducing the same effect. Still, thanks for the support.

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71235715 wrote:
Just a note on Mystic Strike; by level 21, it is too good. It beats Sure Strike by a mile, unarguably (usable with Ranged and you get to add your Str mod.)

Overall, this is a good attempt at the execution of a good idea. I prodded the idea of a Blue Mage for a while, but gave up because I couldn't think of a way to do it. Since I've only skimmed, I can't tell if this covers all the potential holes offered by copying monster abilities (polymorph is what broke 3.5, after all) but I can say good start at least.
Skimmed through real quick.

You have of course made an excellent choice in your next design.

Plus I love blue mages.

Prefer red though (hehe, I love killing things... Stupid damage obsession...)
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Changed Mystic Strike and Added 5-9th level powers.

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71235715 wrote:
Good change to Mystic Strike, I like it.

I've a question though -- when a Blue Mage uses an enemy's power, what does he use for his attack bonus on the attack? MM listings only have a number given for their attack bonus, (such as +7 or +22) so you can't really derive what ability modifier they are applying to it.

A viable solution might be to designate a single ability score to be used for all monster attacks, like Cha or Int.
You use the exact same numbers as the enemies. You are literally dupliating exactly what they did.

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71235715 wrote:
Added 10-19th level powers.

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71235715 wrote:
The only problem I can foresee is having "more" powers than others.

What happens if you take the same power from multiple creatures? Are they treated as one power for the purpose of use limits?
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Not entirely sure what you mean there. You get that at-will talents for free, but every other talent actually takes your power slot for it's level, and all the talent powers only give you a power until you use the talent power again. So at most you end of with 2 extra enemy at-wills, which doesn't really seem to be a big problem.

And I suppose if you use both encounter talents to nab the same power, you could use it twice.

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71235715 wrote:
I think you succeeded where I failed, in so far as a FF class: I tried a black mage but failed.

I'm getting much enjoyment out of this class! Keep up the good work.
OK. So the power can only steal one at a time?

Anyway, what I was saying was what happens if you have three or four enemies in play, then you steal an encounter power from an enemy, use it, then steal the same power from a different enemy.

I know it's more like copy but I use steal for simplicity's sake.
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Yeah. Each Power Steal specifies that you can use the stolen power until you use the power theft again.

And if you've made it to 13th level and have Encounter Talent and Expanded Encounter Talent and you steal a power twice, then you have two uses of that power.

Thanks for the support RoCkEtInToXiCaTe . I'll keep it up as long as people stay interested and I can manage to find concepts that don't fit within other classes.

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71235715 wrote:
So far, I'm really liking this class. Seems like a very good execution to me. Even though copying the exact attack bonus makes me leery of balance issues, I think it could work out. I have some more questions/comments though.

A lot of monster powers rely on other powers said monster possesses. For example, one at-will power might say "use (insert other power name) twice." Can a Blue Mage use such a power, or does he/she have to fulfill the requirements for the power?

Also, can they copy an enemy's basic melee/ranged attack?

I noticed that as-is, you can duplicate your allies' moves (creature=enemy/ally). I can't tell yet if that's totally broken or completely awesome. Did you intend for it to work like that?

One last question. When you, say, copy an enemy encounter power, can you use it that encounter, or is it expended?
Epic powers are up, and I adopted Alumans suggestion on altering the talents.

DC to learn an At-Will - 15 + 1/2 enemies level
DC to learn and Encounter - 20 + 1/2 enemies level
DC to learn a Daily or recharge - 25 + 1/2 enemies level.

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71235715 wrote:
There may be balance issue with copying the exact number, but only playtesting will tell.

As for a power that says use another power twice, you simply use the other power twice, even if you don't know it. I assume that entering the power with that formatting is more of a space saver than anything.

Yeah, even basic attacks can be duplicated as part of the at-will talents.

Copying an ally is no problem. Totally inteded it that way. Part of the reason I said the role was variable. You still have to pull the skill check to use it. Part of the more interesting fact is that is your standing beside an eladrin when he teleports, so can you if you blow your encounter talent to do it.

Copying the enemy encounter power lets you use it that encounter. Essentially, your expending your Encouter Talent for the ability to use the enemie skill you just learned in it's place. After the battle you can expend a healing surge to maintain the power until an extended rest. During the next battle you can use the stolen skill or the talent. The first one you use exhausts that encounter slot.


Edit: Just a quick question I want to ask. After the first few levels I started wholesale stealing of names from actual FF blue magic spells. Does this bother any one?

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71235715 wrote:
I like it that way.
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Feats are up now.

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71235715 wrote:
... How is Hybrid style different from normal proficiency?

Oh and I like your restrictions.:D Reminds me of something I saw once.
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The hybrid gives your part of the other tactic. The warrior picks up a cantrip anjd the wizard picks up a martial weapon.

And yeah, I was building the mastery and realized I wanted a hybrid too. Of course, it makes no sense for a master to be a hybrid, so I added the restirctions.

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71235715 wrote:
Are you stuck on one path once you begin, or can I get some wizard, and some warrior all in one character, so say, I can blast him with whatever, copy that, burning blade him and then white wind us all?
As long as you want to boost Strength and Charisma, you can pick whatever powers you please. Same as the paladin can pick Charisma or Strength powers to suit him. The tactics just give you a small nudge in one direction.

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71235715 wrote:
Added a paragon path and an epic destiny. Anyone have suggestions for other Paragon Paths?

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71235715 wrote:
Honestly, I think one for like people who WANT to only be warriors, people who ONLY want to be wizards and people who want a good mix so you get like Tank/Defender paragon, you know Wizard/Burst DMG/Controller paragon and sort of a "spellsword" or whatever paragon.
hey, Daily Prowess if it works on a creature within 2 squares of you only needs to say:

Trigger: A creature within 2 squares of you uses an encounter power.

The other lines are moot aren't they? ... Oh wait now that I think I just got it...
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It if your get hit from 20 square, you can steal it. An adjacetn creature gets hit from 20 square, you can steal it. Or an ally 2 squares away strikes and enemy 20 squares away, you can steal it. Covers multiple situations.

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71235715 wrote:
Added two new paragon paths.

The Azure Blade - For a melee specialist
The Cerulean Adept - For a spell specialist

Thanks for the ideas RoCkEtInToXiCaTe.

Also added the power Scan at Utility 6 and the power Libra at Utility 16.

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71235715 wrote:
Another update here.

07/26/06 - - 10:48
-----Removed the section from Implements that added weapon or implement enhancment bonus to enemy skills.
-----Lightning Burst's attack penalty now lasts until end of your next turn.
-----Shockwave Strike is now a Blast 2 instead of a Blast 3
-----Elemental Ward now protects from a single element from the attack instead of all the elements.
-----Just Close Enough has been rewritten to work properly now.
-----Laser now does 3d6 damage instead of 4d6.
-----Spark Spin now does 5 ongoing fire damage.
-----Damage on all 5th level Daily powers was doubled.

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71235715 wrote:
Cool, nice updates.

I like the paragon paths, do you think you'll do a hybrid paragon path where you get like a melee attack bonus, some extra spell dmg or something and then like i don't know a miscellaneous and then for powers you could do an attack power for the sword, the level 20 can be a spell from ranged and the utility can do whatever it is the blue mage utilities generally do?