wow kots sucked

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there were just too many fights that it got so freakin boring. Its like ok, another room another fight, what a surprise. The fights usually had too many monsters that made each fight overwhelmingly boring. I don't know who decided what these encounter levels were but they were too difficult. Its like they made a dungeon for DDO and just put it to paper thinking it would be good. Its kind of sad that this is 4's first real adventure. This adventure is also missing some of the new things that 4 ed has like non-combat encounters. I think the only room that was fun was the statue room. The town itself was fun too. Hopefully in future adventures they will put more thought into something other than fighting non stop.
well.... one would remark; start with something simple, basic and archetypal. Low on complexity and subtility.

Like a dungeon crawl.

Like that?
I pretty much have to agree. "Keep" killed any interest my group had in 4E. The Premade characters were dull sterotypes and it was a very typical dungeon crawl. IE: A really bad choice to introduce my group to the game.

But I do not think it is an adventure meant for Old hands at the game. It's a hook to show the new players what the game can be like before they commit to the $100+ for the core books.

A year or so down the road I'm going to try 4E again, only this time I'll make the adventure myself and my group will make their own characters, the game will have a better shot of being interesting to them that way.

But yeah, I have to wait a year or more, after Keep I could buy them each their own 4E PHB and they still wouldn't play the game except as one shots when our normal games aren't running.
My group has had and continues to have great fun with it, the straightforwardness of the adventure lets us get a chance to learn the flow and mechanics of 4th edition before we start getting into meaty adventures, one of which seems to be Thunderpire Labyrinth. I dont know how often you play or how long your sessions are, but my group never gets into more than 2 fights per session and they also have been very inventive about avoiding combat altogether (jamming locks on rooms full of badies, activating the runes so the zombies would flock to that area and then running around the other side of them, pushing badies into wells). The PCs are loving it.
I pretty much have to agree. "Keep" killed any interest my group had in 4E. The Premade characters were dull sterotypes and it was a very typical dungeon crawl. IE: A really bad choice to introduce my group to the game.

But I do not think it is an adventure meant for Old hands at the game. It's a hook to show the new players what the game can be like before they commit to the $100+ for the core books.

A year or so down the road I'm going to try 4E again, only this time I'll make the adventure myself and my group will make their own characters, the game will have a better shot of being interesting to them that way.

But yeah, I have to wait a year or more, after Keep I could buy them each their own 4E PHB and they still wouldn't play the game except as one shots when our normal games aren't running.

Just for one adventure that would be of course something simple and uncomplicated like that?

It's a bit... unfair.
Just for one adventure that would be of course something simple and uncomplicated like that?

It's a bit... unfair.

We found it boring, why play a game we find boring when there are plenty of games to play that we don't find boring. We gave it a shot didn't like it and moved on to other games.

When one of the two we started up after dropping Keep on the Shadowfell winds down (IE: a year or so from now) I'll run it for them. I've started roughing out a war/horror story that involves some decent political intrigue. It'll be more the sort of game my group enjoys and if 4E lets us play that style of game successfully we'll probably keep playing, if not it's on to Exalted.

But like I said, at the moment we have other games to play, A city to protect, Supervillains to foil, an Empire to save and evil Eunuchs to slay with our mighty Kung Fu.
Oh my!?! A dungeon in a Dungeons and Dragons game.
Not to sound mean, but it almost sounds to me like you have a dull gaming group if the encounters in KotS...(that or a dull GM). I know when me and my friends did it, we enjoyed it quite well, even when things didn't go our way. And yes, the fights in KotS are difficult for low level, but that illustrates that you can through a level 6 encounter at a level 1 party and they can live.

I even had one new player in on the group, and he was resourceful and inginuitive(sp) enough, though he did need some guiding.

I'll admit that the adventure arc (the story part) could've been more fleshed out, but I even think in the KotS book, they mention certain things you can do as a GM to make it more intriquing.
Not to sound mean, but it almost sounds to me like you have a dull gaming group if the encounters in KotS...(that or a dull GM). I know when me and my friends did it, we enjoyed it quite well, even when things didn't go our way. And yes, the fights in KotS are difficult for low level, but that illustrates that you can through a level 6 encounter at a level 1 party and they can live.

I even had one new player in on the group, and he was resourceful and inginuitive(sp) enough, though he did need some guiding.

I'll admit that the adventure arc (the story part) could've been more fleshed out, but I even think in the KotS book, they mention certain things you can do as a GM to make it more intriquing.

sigh... yes of course, because we did not fall instantly in love with 4E my group is obviously a bunch of dull players with a lousy GM. All Praise 4E, yada yada yada.


We just aren't big fans of the beat up the monsters and take their stuff style of game. The encounters were entertaining little board games but the premade characters and the adventure itself were dull and boring. Dungeon Crawls are quite frankly the style of adventure we find least fun. KotS was a Dungeon Crawl, it got dull really fast so we stopped playing it and moved on to more interesting games.
Like I said KotS is not the kind of adventure that is made with long time players in mind. It is meant for new players. My group has been playing since 1st edition we got sick of dungeon crawls a long long time ago.

That is why I am taking the time to write an adventure that is more the style my group plays to give the system a better chance of being interesting to my group. Eventually we will try playing 4E again.

But I am not going to go up to them and say "Hey guys lets stop playing the M&M game that we have been enjoying for the last few weeks to give that game we didn't enjoy a 2nd chance".

When one of our other games wraps up we'll give it another go, but not before that.
our group looks for more than just fighting and thats all this adventure really was. Fighting is fun but to a point and kots went way past that point. like greylurker said it is not meant for players from original d&d games as it is too much of a dungeon crawl and nothing else. i was just surprised that this would be 4th ed's first game as i was expecting much better. i am a big fan of 4th edition too. as far as this being made to teach the game, i still don't think you need this many fights to teach it at all. I'm only making a point of this because i am afraid d&d is leaning towards just being dungeons crawls and fighting.
Dang it I just got my post eaten.

Long story short: 4e is new and will hopefully have some great adventures published for it on par with Red Hand of Doom. OD&D and 1e were almost exclusively plotless dungeon crawls for a long time.

I dislike 4e for many, many reasons, but I'll give them that much of a chance (although I don't know why; they've failed on delivering my expectations almost every time since Gleemax was announced).
sigh... yes of course, because we did not fall instantly in love with 4E my group is obviously a bunch of dull players with a lousy GM. All Praise 4E, yada yada yada.


We just aren't big fans of the beat up the monsters and take their stuff style of game. The encounters were entertaining little board games but the premade characters and the adventure itself were dull and boring. Dungeon Crawls are quite frankly the style of adventure we find least fun. KotS was a Dungeon Crawl, it got dull really fast so we stopped playing it and moved on to more interesting games.
Like I said KotS is not the kind of adventure that is made with long time players in mind. It is meant for new players. My group has been playing since 1st edition we got sick of dungeon crawls a long long time ago.

That is why I am taking the time to write an adventure that is more the style my group plays to give the system a better chance of being interesting to my group. Eventually we will try playing 4E again.

But I am not going to go up to them and say "Hey guys lets stop playing the M&M game that we have been enjoying for the last few weeks to give that game we didn't enjoy a 2nd chance".

When one of our other games wraps up we'll give it another go, but not before that.

So my question is, if you like a better story, and you like intrigue, and you dont like dungeon crawls, why play through Kots to begin with when it tells you that its a dungeon crawl? You didnt enjoy the pace and fluff of the adventure, that has nothing to do with the 4th edition mechanics. If you usually play homebrew, then you are right to say that homebrew is the best way for you to go if you want to properly evaluate whether 4th edition is right for you. To you Kots sucked, to me it doesnt. I hope your next go at 4th edition is more enjoyable. ;)
So my question is, if you like a better story, and you like intrigue, and you dont like dungeon crawls, why play through Kots to begin with when it tells you that its a dungeon crawl? You didnt enjoy the pace and fluff of the adventure, that has nothing to do with the 4th edition mechanics. If you usually play homebrew, then you are right to say that homebrew is the best way for you to go if you want to properly evaluate whether 4th edition is right for you. To you Kots sucked, to me it doesnt. I hope your next go at 4th edition is more enjoyable. ;)

would you pay $100+ just to try out a system?

KotS was used by us to see what the system was like. Most of the people playing agreed the system was ok but the adventure was so dull it turned us off the system. We'll give it another shot just not anytime soon is all.
would you pay $100+ just to try out a system?

KotS was used by us to see what the system was like. Most of the people playing agreed the system was ok but the adventure was so dull it turned us off the system. We'll give it another shot just not anytime soon is all.

We didnt pay $100 (by the way hopefully if you you choose to jump into 4th edition amazon will still have the set at $66) to try the system, we played parts of Kots. For my group i told them from the get go, this is a dungeon crawl through and through especially when it says it in the first few pages. I also told them not to expect an epic story because thats not what Kots was about, it was about putting the mechanics to the test. None of my players had a problem with that, they all agree that the mechanics are far cleaner and allow us to play however we want without all the clutter which was great, they also understood that the story wasnt meant to be anything out of the ordinary or even good for that matter.

Granted I did spice it up by placing it in Eberron with the Dungeon Article. Either way a dull story doesnt equal game mechanics, if your group thought the story was dull then maybe spicing it up a bit would have helped as many of us did. Kots' story wasnt great or even good for that matter, but that wasnt the point of the adventure, it tells you that from the get go. If your players evaluate a game mechanics based on the story (even though they are unrelated) then i'm sure when you run that homebrew they will enjoy it. Otherwise you are totally right, why play something you dont enjoy.
Wow, my group is having the exact opposite response. We have all been playing more 10 or more years with two of us gaming for more than 20 each. We are having so much fun. As DM, I throw a lot of extras into the adventure so it keeps their interest. As players they like to be inventive. Some things that I do:

1) Keep running total of the party treasure which they receive at the start of the next session (this is to compare what they have written down).
2) Keep track of the "quests" they are on and who to report back to when the quest is done along with the potential rewards.
3) Each NPC has his or her own mini bio with a picture. I give a list of the information they have learned from each person and the general demeanor.
4) I give the party a list of things they have learned about the various monsters they have encountered.

The players have done things like:
1) Scout ahead and set an ambush for the enemy using the gear they have acquired.
2) Work as a team to set each other up for successful combat. They pay close attention to who is marked and attempt to maximize that potential.
3) They customized their characters when they leveled up. They dropped feats or powers they didn't like and picked up new ones. They didn't follow the sample character progression unless they liked it.

We are having a blast getting used to the new rules. We decided from the beginning that we would focus more on mechanics right now since roleplaying is something we can do at any time.

Of course, if you are having fun playing another game, then you should be playing that game. Mutants and Masterminds is a ton of fun and I wish I could find a group with someone who wants to run it. I am so itching to build me a superhero.
They don't mention anything about it being a dungeon crawl until after you buy it and open it up. But like i said i am a fan of 4th edition. I do expect there to be better adventures in the future. Are there any reviews on thunderspire yet?
I wouldn't say it sucked, but it could have used a little help. Many of the encounters were too similar and I think that is what resulted in some boredom. For example, two Kobold encounters on the same map back-to-back to start the game.

But there are also some neat encounters like the terror runes and the endless supply of skeletons in the sarcophagi. Since then, I've also spiced things up with ideas from page 42 of the DMG by having people flip tables for cover, throw torches, and other mayhem. I've also tried to bring in elements of terrain to make it more interesting.

The one good thing about keeping it straight forward is it makes the rules easier to learn and practice. Now that my group has them down and I'm more comfortable DMing, it is time spice things up.
sigh... yes of course, because we did not fall instantly in love with 4E my group is obviously a bunch of dull players with a lousy GM. All Praise 4E, yada yada yada.


We just aren't big fans of the beat up the monsters and take their stuff style of game. The encounters were entertaining little board games but the premade characters and the adventure itself were dull and boring. Dungeon Crawls are quite frankly the style of adventure we find least fun. KotS was a Dungeon Crawl, it got dull really fast so we stopped playing it and moved on to more interesting games.
Like I said KotS is not the kind of adventure that is made with long time players in mind. It is meant for new players. My group has been playing since 1st edition we got sick of dungeon crawls a long long time ago.

That is why I am taking the time to write an adventure that is more the style my group plays to give the system a better chance of being interesting to my group. Eventually we will try playing 4E again.

But I am not going to go up to them and say "Hey guys lets stop playing the M&M game that we have been enjoying for the last few weeks to give that game we didn't enjoy a 2nd chance".

When one of our other games wraps up we'll give it another go, but not before that.

For KotS we actually worked on the characters from the premade adventure, like the fighter was a dwarf, he was a human fighter, and was from Winterhaven. He was a former bodyguard, who's charge was killed by Irontooth (thats the goblins name right?). It made going out to find Irontooth much more engaging for the party, and I did similiar things with each member of the party so that they'd actually enjoy playing it.

Don't patronize me because you've played since 1st edition; or that your group as been. Its not like I've not played for a long time too. I wasn't like 4e ZOMG must buy. Most of the campaigns I DM'd were wilderness adventures, because Dungeon Crawl are actually counter intuitive to me (with a few exceptions). I spent a week with KotS, setting up all sorts of things within to make it more interesting for the players I knew would be in it.

Yes, it is pretty combat heavy, but there was plenty of opportunity to spice up Winterhaven too.

KotS run stock, like any adventure I've run, would be pretty bad, they're usually not engaging enough, so its not surprising that it seemed boring.
Right. On it's own KotS is not a great mission.
That is pretty much what we are talking about in this thread.
Spicing it up, changing the premade characters, etc... would kind of require having the Core 4E books, which my group did not have. We ran KotS with nothing but KotS and a bit of spice from the Forgotten Realms version on line.

KotS exists to introduce people to the most basic version of the game. That is why I said it was a bad choice to introduce my group to the game. Even you have said you had to make changes to the Premade characters to get people more invested in them.

For people new to the game I think it will be fine. It just wasn't for my group and it kind of soured us on 4e for the short term. I still think the system is good enough that if we try it again with a homebrew mission it'll go over better plus Today a couple of guys heard Earthdawn is being remade as a 4E setting so their interest has been peaked again
Right. On it's own KotS is not a great mission.
That is pretty much what we are talking about in this thread.
Spicing it up, changing the premade characters, etc... would kind of require having the Core 4E books, which my group did not have. We ran KotS with nothing but KotS and a bit of spice from the Forgotten Realms version on line.

KotS exists to introduce people to the most basic version of the game. That is why I said it was a bad choice to introduce my group to the game. Even you have said you had to make changes to the Premade characters to get people more invested in them.

For people new to the game I think it will be fine. It just wasn't for my group and it kind of soured us on 4e for the short term. I still think the system is good enough that if we try it again with a homebrew mission it'll go over better plus Today a couple of guys heard Earthdawn is being remade as a 4E setting so their interest has been peaked again

Having 1 been there in the KOTS lolwatzors ran we did not actually have the Player's handbook. We played it before release. It wasn't like the info for the races wasn't already floating around out there by the time we got to playing KOTS.

It's meant to get people familiar with the rules, as well as give a taste of how the system plays out. On that note I think KoTs was designed pretty well.
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I agree that Kots is pretty run of the mill as adventures go. It was designed afterall as an introduction to the D&D game.

Was your DM also a veteran gamer? If he was he clearly failed you. I've been a DM since the 1981 basic set and I've never run a «bought» adventure as is. The DM must make the adventure his own and adjust it to the «taste» of is gaming group. Some adventures need more tweaking than others. For me Kots needed an average amount of prep work.

I'm currently running H1 with veteran players and they are having lots of fun with it. Feel free to check out session 1 and 2 report at the link under my sig.
Read my DD4E campaign blog
I will agree that it is a quasi-crawl and I too am not fond with those types of adventures. On the other hand I am using it to learn how to run my 11th level 3E to 4E conversion that will take place in a month. It has helped me learning how to run a 4E game when it comes to encounters.

While I agree that it is a rather mundane crawl I think dropping the 4E game because of the one adventure is a tad premature. I have been working on my campaign for over a month or so and am very excited about useing the
4E rules for the continuation of my Eberron camapign. I will add alot more substance than the premade of course but that is because it is coming from my noggin and not "out of the can". It will be tailored for my group and they should have fun with it, and if they are not I will spin it around to fit their needs. Some people seem to have a problem with doing that for Premades.

Anyway I think the 4E rules are alot of fun and the adventure is so so. That is because I wish we did not have to make min-maxed pcs just to survived Irontooth. (Which we did beat down with no fatalities, again due to min-maxing)
what would you like me to do, put a gun to their heads and say "Lets stop playing one of the games we are all enjoying right now and give the one you didn't enjoy another shot"

It'll get another shot, just not any time soon.

If you want to help me win my group over offer me advice on this thread
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1061939

It's the campaign I am working one for when I eventually do run 4E for them.
My one main critique of KotS is that the writers had a love affair with Minions. The concept of minions is great, the functionality of minions is great, but when Every. Last. Encounter. is half a dozen minions it starts getting lame. This is mostly a problem with the first floor of the Keep, as the second floor runs a lot more normals. Oh, and the other big problem with the first floor is that they frequently chose to put the minions in front, with the normal melee monsters in back. The room full of zombies in between the runes of terror and the never-ending-sarcophagi is a great example of horrible placement.

The never-ending-sarcophagi, on the other hand, was great.

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."

I am someone that loves to make my own adventures. However KotSF is very handy as an introduction. Chances are I am using forgotten realms.

I am running this adventure contrary to all my philosophies about DMing. I am running this with next to NO background of the surrounding area, and there is very little placement in the mileu.

basically we are all 'learning' 4e with this adventure. My focus is on navigating the rules right now. WHen the FR system comes out I will determine whether or not to continue with realms, or restart my own campaign world.

So I am OK with this Module for now. It is handy in figuring out the rules.
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"the premade characters ... were dull and boring."

I've heard this particular refrain before. And I find it perplexing. It seems to me that it all boils down to how you play the character, not the nuts and bolts behind it's construciton. Give the pregen characters a personality, some quirks, something that defines them outside of their stats. For my money that's where the fun of an RPG lies, the imagination you use to imbue your characters with unique personality.

Cheers!
Wollstonecraft
They don't mention anything about it being a dungeon crawl until after you buy it and open it up. But like i said i am a fan of 4th edition. I do expect there to be better adventures in the future. Are there any reviews on thunderspire yet?

One wonders WHY you are a fan of 4E, if you dislike lots of combat encounters.

This iteration of D&D is more combat-oriented than any past version.

I have H2. It is the same sort of fare as H1. Lots and lots of combat. They are interesting combats with lots of tactical variety, just like H1. However, if you didn't appreciate it in H1, I doubt you will appreciate it in H2. Or H3. Or the overwhelming majority of 4E adventures that will come down the pike.

If I wanted a combat-lite system, 4E would not be my system of choice.
I've been running KOTS and its been the funnest adventure I've ever run. The problem I think is that when you run this adventure against veteran players. The adventure assumes that the players are using conventional adventurer tactics, but seasoned adventurers have developed their own strategies. So while they are trying to do interesting things, the monsters are following ordinary tactics.

Also, in my game, the players are trying to screw up the plot. Their reasoning was that if they hide the relic from the burial site, then Kalarel won't be able to finish what he is doing.

This has made for some fun times for me. What did they think the badass evil guy would do if were trying to play keep away from him?
MY PLAYERS LOVED THE ROOM WITH THE SARCOPHOGI....

sorry caps

That has to be the most fun encounter I've EVER DM'd...they were literally held together but strands of flesh by the end of that fight, it was spectacular.
I have to agree with rainbowcannon on this, KotS was meant to introduce players to the new game mechanics of 4e, especially the combat. I DMed the first session of it for four of my friends last night, and they loved it. Combat is now something that keeps you on your toes, and it made them realize that they have to work as a team in order to survive, they need to learn to utilize their powers as well as the powers of their allies. The fighter of the party tried taking on three dragonshields by himself, and he was getting slaughtered until he got some help from the pally and the rogue. So far the game seems so much more interesting, and I think it's only going to get better once we get all the rules down path, and don't need to look something up in the PHB for every action someone takes.
My group seems to be having fun with it so far. they have only done 2 encounters yet though, the first and second ambushes. Already I can see a fun situation developing. One of the players tried to "pick-up" a certain half-elven ranger.

This is so rich because I ran a couple small pre-adventure to give them a leg-up on KOTS since I have 4 players, in one they were rescuing a girl who turns out to be a shape-shifted hag. He put his cloak around her and was making the moves and everything when she attacked. :D
I think you have to take KotS as what it was intended to be: an introductory advetnure for the purposes of learning the new rules. The characters were intentionally straight forward to give players a look at new classes. The plot was basic and the adventure combat centered for the same reason; it was supposed to be instructive. Exotic multiclass characters with esoteric builds and complex plots with immersive role playing would have been confusing. Taken on its own merits I have no major criticism of it.
One wonders WHY you are a fan of 4E, if you dislike lots of combat encounters.

This iteration of D&D is more combat-oriented than any past version.

I have H2. It is the same sort of fare as H1. Lots and lots of combat. They are interesting combats with lots of tactical variety, just like H1. However, if you didn't appreciate it in H1, I doubt you will appreciate it in H2. Or H3. Or the overwhelming majority of 4E adventures that will come down the pike.

If I wanted a combat-lite system, 4E would not be my system of choice.

Game Mechanics are just that "MECHANICS" and have nothing to do with making the system more or less combat oriented. This is a common misconception and therefore should be nipped in the bud. 4e has better fluff and therefore better RP material then 3e had in my opinion but once again that doesn't matter because it is up to the DM and group to make the RP.

KOTS maybe a 4e Adventure but it doesn't HAVE to be all encounters. It doesn't have to be encounters every room. I personally love the 4e mechanics and fluff and therefore will be using and abusing the beautiful system but I will not be doing it the same way that Wizards seems to think should be done. I will probably be playing alot of 3e modules or 2e modules whereas I can just rip the awesome fluffy stories out and build my own encounters within the map and you can be assured that it will be ripe with encounters but it will not be in every single room of the dungeon because I am not actually playing a tabletop minitures game but a tabletop role-playing game.

EDIT: Does no one remember the 3e Introductory Adventure boxset which was something like a seven small adventures that were almost completely combat.
I think it's fair to say that KOTS was meant to be simple and action-packed. WotC wants to bring more players into the game with 4th edition, and their first product was designed to be easy on the brain, particularly for newbies. Some bad editing and confusing writing nearly ruined that goal, but that's neither here nor there. They wanted KotS to be un-complex. They wanted it to be easy to pick up and play, and easy to understand for people unfamiliar with common RPG concepts. They wanted it to "inclusive" rather then "exclusive".

Yes, the adventure is chock-full of combat, but I can see why. It's because they want people to get to know the system. Also, they do give some advice and broadening the scope of the adventure and doing some role-playing. But I don't think they really wanted to give people a lengthy explanation of how a DM can personalize and spice up the relatively bare-bones adventure. That's for the DM to figure out on his own. WotC provided you with the rules and structure of a simple but fun adventure, you're supposed to suppy the role-playing and creativity to make it your own.
I ran my first proper session of KOTS last night and I have to say it was immensely fun!

We left off last time (after character creation and an introductory scrap) with them finding the kobold tracks so went straight into the ambush this time.

We had 4 hours to play and I was expecting them to get through at least 4 encounters in that time, but we barely had time to finish the 2nd ambush!

We just had way too much fun role-playing in Winterhaven, gathering info on the kobolds and Douven and trying to subtly root out the cult of Shar (using the FR conversion). It was very easy to flesh out the npc's and make it seem like a believable community.

Eilian was the most fun to play as a dm. The pc's led off with a question about the kobolds so I took his confused 'redcaps' comments and just ran with it. The conversation went round and round in a confused spiral until Eilian dropped a wink to his fellow farmers behind the pc's and they realised they were being messed with. :D

Even in combat, the role-playing was a lot of fun. The power system seems to fuel descriptive actions from the pc's, which helped make the encounters vivid and fun. The kobolds were in total awe of the dragonborn fighter and were lining each other up to take his hits.

KOTS is what you make of it. Yes, there's a lot of combat but there's more than enough there to drive your imagination and nothing to stop you role-playing!
We're greatly enjoying KotS so far. i'm DMing it, but i've been running games for a long time so i'm taking some liberties with the plot and NPCs to flesh it out.

We've played 4 times and not reached the Keep yet, so they'll probably be 2nd level by then. I think that the straight forward plot enables us to learn the rules slowly, and there really are a lot of aspects of the game that are radically different than 3.x. i'm not fully sold on 4e (i don't like the graphic design and art for example) but the rules seem solid enough. The only thing i can say is that we're having a blast with the combat.

I hope combat stays fun in the long haul though and doesn't get repetitive, although i can't imagine it any more repetitive than prior editions of D&D: swing- miss, swing-hit, swing-hit...
Hey don't feel bad OP.. we didn't start 4e until our last Season of M&M wrapped up.

It's a fun game.. very techinically challenging. But if your group is into fun and inventive encounters where creativity rather than rules-mastery is the name of the game, I suggest you stay with M&M (or True20).

4e is fairly open I'll admit.. but it's got nothing on APing with fatigue or a hero point.
Modules and other pre-gen material should be handled with a modicum of care and creativity. A 1st level module alone, in any campaign, is going to be basic and not too in-depth, especially the first release for a new system. The whole goal of an RPG is first and foremost-ROLEPLAYING. If your DM is not getting creative with dull material, maybe its time to get a new DM, and if pre-made characters are "lame" or "boring" create new ones or ADD something to them.
Yes I have found 4e to be a lot more simplified and streamlined than previous editions, however I as a DM find this very stress relieving. Combat seems to run smoother, battles have more depth for players to RP their rolls rather than get bogged down flipping thru tomes for rules clarifications...
All in all, 4e has a lot of potential for more cinematic roleplaying IMHO.
But hey, everyone has their tastes and there's no accounting for it. So, if you don't like the way things are run, you always have the options of 3.5 and below to fall back on.
So the problem here is that people bought a dungeon crawl module and are complaining that it's a dungeon crawl?

I mean, what?
there were just too many fights that it got so freakin boring. Its like ok, another room another fight, what a surprise. The fights usually had too many monsters that made each fight overwhelmingly boring.

I don't know if its because we're running the Eberron conversion, but we've had quite a bit of roleplaying and story.

After the very first fight, the players captured a kobold and questioned it, then they heard a far off scream so they chased towards it, to find an elven woman tied up. Although her circumstances were extremely suspicious. They took the kobold to Winterhaven, handed it over to the town militia and got invited to dinner with Lord Padraig.

After talking with the Lord and his wife in the manor, they were offered some gold to take care of the kobolds. Just as they were saying their goodbyes a guard stormed in and announced someone had been killed. The players followed the lord and guard to discover the kobold was dead along with the guard who was watching over it in a small cell in the barracks. As they learned this Valthraun the wizard stormed in and announced that the head must be removed or else the bodies would rise again. The Lord walked off telling Valthraun to stop spouting nonsense.

The players went to the inn to rest for the night to learn that their rooms were free because the innkeeper was grateful for them rescuing the elven woman (whose name is Delphina). The next day they headed out to the Burial Site, and were ambushed by kobolds again.

Upon reaching the burial site they saw Delphina and some humans digging the dragon up along with a couple of drakes standing guard. After some talking and the players failed at getting Delphina to go with them to Winterhaven so they could have a talk. Battle ensued.

Just before Delphina was about to die, she surrendered and revealed that she was a member of the Blood of Vol and needed a part of the dragon as a component. She also revealed the kobolds on the road the previous day had been working for her and that she had the kobolds in the waterfall take Douven Staul (the person they were there to rescue) away.

She attempted to bluff about which bone was the component and failed. After spending the rest of the day digging up the dragon bones, the players destroyed the bone and took Delphina with them to the kobold lair. Outside they had Delphina go with them and threatened to kill her if the kobolds didn't surrender. The kobolds attacked, so they killed Delphina, who turned out to be a doppleganger.

It was midnight before they returned to Winterhaven, and so the players had to convince the gate guards to let them in, and that no, the players weren't imposters. They had to answer a couple of questions like who did they have dinner with (they got it wrong and said mayor) and who did they rescue (they got that right, although one player pointed out "You know, the one we just killed.") Ultimately the captain was gotten and the players were let in. One player suggested that they didn't actually kill Delphina, they killed the doppleganger who was impersonating Delphina. While that's a nice theory, they have absolutely no proof to back it up. So it will be interesting to see if they just keep quiet on the whole killing Delphina part.

There's also been personal conflict as the NPCs react poorly to the Warforged, and one of our players doesn't like the Warforged at all.

My players have thwarted Kalarel and his ritual so we won't be going into the Keep, however the Keep would have had just as much story to it as before it did.

This has made for some fun times for me. What did they think the badass evil guy would do if were trying to play keep away from him?

Heh, my players avoided this problem completely by destroying the relic (or the dragon bone in my case).
What I want to know is this;

Ok, so you bought KotS. And some of you did so right there when it was released prior to the rest of the books.
But am I wrong in making the assumption that whoever was going to DM sat down & read it through???
In wich case, I'd expect the reaction from some of you would have been "Whoa! This thing just won't work for my groups play-style...."

So, if you knew it wouldn't suit your group, why'd you run it as-is anyways???
Why didn't you do your best to alter it?
Granted, maybe you couldn't change some stuff because you were trying to play it prior to the other books. But it's also not that hard to rearange the pieces given, write up some background detail, etc etc etc.

So all I see here are a bunch of DMs who don't know how to do thier job.