Dragonlance vs. Forgotten Realms

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I am thinking over where I want to play my D&D 4e campaign at as to what setting. What do you all prefer for D&D setting for a campaign? Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms. Please state why you think one is better than the other and the pros and cons of each if you want.

Thanks in advance!
Play or GM?

Only those two choices?

GAMMA WORLD Wuv D&D: Beyond the RPG - Transcript This is a complete transcript. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/22329697?sdb=1&pg=last#390668593 The audio file is in this News Archive http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/DNDXP 2010 D&D Product Overview (47 minutes into the Audio) http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/22329697?sdb=1&pg=last#390928045
My vote is for Dragon Lance. It just feels more epic in scope. I always felt FR adventures were fun but in the end you never made much of a difference with all of the Hero NPC groups such as the Chosen of Mystra and the Harpers :P running around. I enjoy fighting draconians since they are unique antagonists and I like the history of the world. Not too happy with their divine pantheon at the moment, (Boo Mina! :rolleye2: ) but overall I feel that it is a campaign world where quests seem important and the choices I mak can have a real impact on the world.
Play or GM?

Only those two choices?


Well, these were the two I kind of was thinking of the most. The ones that I have been considering setting my campaign in are Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, the default Points of Light 4e setting, Ravenloft, or Greyhawk. Feel free to discuss these ones and the pros vs. cons of each or you can also chime in about other settings you love as well like Mystara, Al Qadim, Kara-Tur, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, etc.
If you're going to expand the thread to more settings I'd change the title. I'd also take out the "vs." notation, since that'll draw some unnecessary ire to the thread.

* Greyhawk with 3.x rules because I'm not done with Living Greyhawk quite yet.
* I'll be trying out Living Forgotten Realms I'm sure, but I've been losing enthusiasm for it.
* DM in my homebrew campaign world with 4th edition rules.
* I'd like to try some other settings out, but I don't know that my time will stretch too much beyond the above goals.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
I've been a long time Dragonlance fan and never really liked FR (ever since I found out it wasn't about dinosaurs, but was actually about some emo elf with scimitars) and that right there is the root of the problem of this thread: so many people are just right out biased because they "chose sides" a decade or two ago.

One of the reasons I like Dragonlance as a campaign setting is in large measure its emptiness. There are key locations, but the key locations haven't entirely overwhelmed the vast unknown, and many of the key locations aren't definitively friendly. Of course I haven't touched DL in a while, since 5th age made me throw up in my mouth.

FR has the benefit of an equally rabid fanbase that may also be a larger fanbase, plus WotC production values (though DL may be "back in house" for 4e, but I don't want to touch that wasp nest with a ten foot clown pole).

My honest suggestion is to use PoL.

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."

What, no Birthright?

More seriously, between the two I'd have to go DL as well, but I've hashed through my reasons over on the EN World thread, so I won't repeat them here.

Actually, though, now that LFK has brought it up, I have to say the "implied setting" is really growing on me. Sure, you have to make up the points of light, but there's much to be said for that in the first place, and there's supposed to be a fully fleshed out town in the 4E DMG that would be a great place to start.
Umm neither.... I liked some of the age of mortals books for DL to read but have no desire to run or play in those worlds, Give me Greyhawk or Eberron.
I'll go the other way and say FR.
The first reason is because it is more supported then DL
however on the flip side there is allot of canon to deal with the sheer amount of novels written about mid to high level adventurers its hard to avoid them (especially if you are playing anywhere at all close to Waterdeep).
So turn the harpers and the chosen of Mystra into background fluff (or host it in a place that isn't run by them or there affiliates) and that campaign has potential.

That said for perspective I have read all of Weis's dragonlance books but have never played it. And have only lightly touched Greyhawk so I won't say don't use them
I'd say Forgotten Realms. FR will be supported for 4th ed right away and will have more options for players. I personally like FR more but in any case DL will require more work without a 4th ed campaign book, sure the fluff is there but you'll have to invent some of the crunch. Most of the realms problems such as the powerful npcs stealing the show or how "bloated" it is are going to be fixed in 4th ed from what we've seen. However no one has mentioned the very best 4th edition campaign setting yet... the one you make yourself. So in any case whatever you decide don't think that you have to do something just because the books say so if you don't like Elminster or Drizzt or Tanis (especially Tanis) then don't use them. You know what is best for your game.
I like the Realms myself, mostly because you have a choice as to whether or not your players meet any of the more powerful NPC's in the setting. I've played some DL, and my perspective is likely colored by the quality of the game I played in. That said, it's a really well done world.

As another poster said though, FR will be supported right away when 4e launches, so you can get right into it.

I had thought of something though. Everyone who is saying that the reboot will help with the large number of powerful NPC's is basically forgetting something. Whether it's 10 years or 100 years, most of those powerful NPC's are very long-lived. Think about how long Elminster has been alive. If all the Chosen, of Mystra or another god (See Mask's Chosen) are granted immortality/longer lives, they should still be around for the most part. Then we have Drizzt and Bruenor, an elf and a dwarf. 100 years to them isn't really a big deal. Only some of the heroes and villains will be gone, barring death by plague, combat or poisoning. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I was looking through some older D&D stuff also the other day and was intriguied by the Birthright setting but I do not know that much about it. Can any of you please break down this setting in detail and tell me all about it and its flavor? It might be good to bring back an old and neglected D&D setting like this one in 4e. What races and creatures do not exist in Birthright and are there dragons in Birthright?

Thanks in advance!
My issue with DL, is the same as I have with running Star Wars games. The "epic" feel of Dragonlance seems inextricably tied to the adventures of Tanis, Caramon and crew.

Playing in DL for me, is the same as playing in post-Luke Skywalker Star Wars. The best, coolest thing to ever happen in the setting has already happened. If you play during those time period, you are then by definition in the backseat as Tanis/Luke are the ones that are going to get to do the most epic, most defining things in the setting and not the PCs.

However, if you want to run a game where the PCs are the movers and shakers, and are engaged in saving the world, I feel that both settings have bloat in that regard.

'So, wait; the world is about to be destroyed by mystical forces again? Didn't some group of plucky adventurers already save the world from imminent destruction or restructuring a few years ago?'

The answer to that question in both settings is unfortunately 'Yes'.

1st Ed FR was great (and early 2e to an extent as well). It was before all of the realms shaking events; it was before TSR decided in 2e that every setting could take up part of the FR globe, it was before Drizzt, it was before the Time of Troubles, the Empire of Shade, the Spellplague, the return of Netheril, and whatever other number of RSE that happened over the past 30 years of publications.

I honestly prefer homebrew campaign settings now, as any official DnD setting is going to have books published around it, that are unfortunately canon, and they are also going to be developed with the assumption 'If it is published by WotC it has a place in the setting'. It is actually part of at least the FR and Eberron CS that if it is in a DnD book, it has a place in the setting. Every monster from every MM, every class and PrC, and every race from every splatbook all can go into one world. Not a good model for any campaign setting.

FR reboot will take a top down look at what is already in the game system and make sense of it (like Eberron did in 3e) and present something reasonably cohesive. Give it enough time though, and the FR reboot will turn back into FR because the issue with bloat isn't to 'reboot', but to reign in the elements that caused that bloat in the first place, which they are not doing and have no intention of doing apparently.

This indictment can apply to DL as well. Most campaigns do not run at the speed of a dozen and a half novelists and a dozen game designers working for profit.
As much as I dislike Eberron in tone and feel, I have to admit it works better as a campaign setting than any other I have read. There is just a whole lot less wrong with it.

If Eberron isn't your bag, I'll dig deep into the past and recommend Mystara.
...whatever