Stuff to buy in H1 - missing from the mod

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So I started running H1 at my FLGS for the manager and his employees and when they got to town a couple places have stuff for sale like gear from the PHB and some petty magic items. Unfortunately I do not have the new 4e PHB so I will end up using the old prices for items but I would like to allow to buy from the new list.

Any chance the fine folks at Wizards of the Coast could fill us in on what the PCs can actually buy?

Please? Help?
Is h1 already out?
Game stores across the country received their store copies for display this week.
This is the inherent problem of releasing a starter pack/adventure before the core rule books. You can't cover everything in the quick-rules pamphlet.

I'd second the call for a web enhancement with item prices/descriptions for the stuff available in KoS.
I hate to say it, but the stuff to buy isn't going to be released in a web document, but in the PHB which comes out in June. But to ask for a web enhancement for stuff that will be in another book, is well.. I think pretty damn arrogant. I think the developers have better things to do that put up a web enhancement detailing stuff that will be in the book they are trying to sell. Not to mention they are giving us a wealth of previews already. 'Don't look a gift horse in the mouth' is the saying that is appropriate here. WotC isn't under an obligation to tell you a damn thing about 4e before it's released. Like it or not, they are more or less doing it as a favour to the fans, and to show off the new rules. I was really surprised to learn that they gave the module to FLGS, and think that is pretty damn cool of them.
Remember, you're getting a chance to play 4e earlier than most people.

I really think that you should just be happy that you're getting a chance to do something that many out there won't get, even if it is only a week or so before others can play it.
I hate to say it, but the stuff to buy isn't going to be released in a web document, but in the PHB which comes out in June. But to ask for a web enhancement for stuff that will be in another book, is well.. I think pretty damn arrogant. I think the developers have better things to do that put up a web enhancement detailing stuff that will be in the book they are trying to sell. Not to mention they are giving us a wealth of previews already. 'Don't look a gift horse in the mouth' is the saying that is appropriate here. WotC isn't under an obligation to tell you a damn thing about 4e before it's released. Like it or not, they are more or less doing it as a favour to the fans, and to show off the new rules. I was really surprised to learn that they gave the module to FLGS, and think that is pretty damn cool of them.
Remember, you're getting a chance to play 4e earlier than most people.

I really think that you should just be happy that you're getting a chance to do something that many out there won't get, even if it is only a week or so before others can play it.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but though WOTC is under no obligation to give us anything, it is to their benefit to TEASE us with stuff to get us all amped up so we go buy the books. Basic business strategy, really. It would be like trying to get people to go see a movie without releasing a trailer. Not that I would be like the OP and demand additional releases of stuff on a product that hasn't even been officially released yet.
Uh, WotC did tell us that H1 was a full mod playable using the quick start rules. Well there are times in the mod when you need the full rules - or at least more rules than were provided. If WotC wanted to release a preview mod then they should have made sure to include only those aspects of the game covered by the quick start rules.

H1 kicks off an adventure path. It is not just a preview - its a full-blown real-deal mod. I am hesitant to keep running it since I do not know what the rituals could do for my players, and if they need them to succeed, and what items they could have purchased, and if they need them to succeed.

I think WotC should have either produced a true preview product or they should provided everything required to run the mod they did release.

Seems fair to me.
I've been really impressed with the amount of stuff being done for 4e - I've found it all positive and great fun: design & dev; the Monsters/Worlds/ Races preview books; the flash animations; the DDXP; the ads; the excerpts etc

However, I think it a real shame when some things don't work as perfectly as they could've (I'm sure WotC feel the same way - but that's life). Ideally, H1 would have been released at the same time as the core books and prior to that there would have been a real preview quick-start adventure available for purchase (or download) - possibly an adventure which could feed easily into H1.

Oh, well. Never mind. I wish I had a copy of H1, imperfect as it is.
Playing Scales of War

Rogue.jpg

I think the OP makes a good point. From everything I've seen and heard about KotS, I get the impression that it's a full-blown 4th Edition adventure that assumes the people playing it have access to the full core ruleset. The only thing that makes it a "preview" is the fact that it's being released before the core rules are out and, on account of that, it also contains a cobbled-together set of pregenerated characters and a "quick start" guide that apparently fails to address everything that might come up in the adventure itself.

It seems to me like if you really want to get the full benefit of the adventure, you'll have to wait until the core books come out.
"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G Allen

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but though WOTC is under no obligation to give us anything, it is to their benefit to TEASE us with stuff to get us all amped up so we go buy the books. Basic business strategy, really. It would be like trying to get people to go see a movie without releasing a trailer. Not that I would be like the OP and demand additional releases of stuff on a product that hasn't even been officially released yet.

I fully agree, and I think that they are doing a good job, even with KotS with teasing us. The problem I had, is the OP is almost demanding more info for using the quick start game. I fully agree that the rules are not complete, there are things left out, but after reading the whole adventure, I don't think you need to buy equipment or have any rituals to complete it. Sure that may help, but it is NOT required.

I think many people are spoiled when it comes to the new edition, they are expecting everything that was in 3.5 to come out the first day 4e is released. It's not. It will be slow at first, and yes most of us will be chomping at the bit -some more so than others, for new info that brings more options to the game. Another thing to consider is the quick start, for what it is to do, is to get you somewhat used to the mechanics. And to quote Tony Stark, "Sometimes you have to run before you can walk" before you can run, you'll still need to learn to crawl first. Another thing is that if you have NEVER played D&D before and wanted to give it a try for the first time EVER this module will be fine with the quick start rules, incompleteness and all. If you run KotS and like it, you'll probably get the other books.

Now, while those of us who have played before do feel that the game is missing something - and for the record I feel that the module is missing things as well but I can deal with it. I plan on running the module again, with the pregens, possibly with the ones from D&DXP as well, letting the players keep the treasure and xp they get for the adventure and when the PHB comes out letting them build new characters and transferring the loot/xp over. If they players don't want to do that, well at the very least they've spend time learning the system before it fully comes out so when we get the books we can jump right into gameplay without having to read the rules, because we've already been playing them. Sure somethings may come up but most of the stuff we'll know.

I think that's a great thing, considering my FLGS is letting me use the module, for free, to do all this. I said it before, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
after reading the whole adventure, I don't think you need to buy equipment or have any rituals to complete it. Sure that may help, but it is NOT required.

That certainly eases my mind a bit. Thanks for mentioning that.
"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G Allen

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Welcome to Icewind Dale (Legacy of the Crystal Shard)

DMing for My Wife (and Our Friends) (Lost Mine of Phandelver)

 

WotC is not a gift horse - they are a corporation. The designed H1 as an introduction to the game to use with quick start rules. Those rules are insufficient to use the full contents of the mod. My players will not be able to run the mod again once all the rules are available. I am simply asking that they throw us a bone and give us a hand to run their mod.

Just wait until the mod hits wide circulation - people will see the gaps and complain even louder. People are already on edge about the whole 3e to 4e transition as it is. Folks are already questioning Wizards ability to create quality products.

This product has holes that will not be filled until the rule come out yet it goes on sale 18 day ahead of the core rules. Why should my FLGS recommend H1 to anyone if it is an incomplete product and not the preview mod we were expecting?

Yes - we can look past the holes but what if the party finds that they are in need of one of the ritual like
Show
raise dead
which is available in Winterhaven?

Remember - this is not just a "preview". H1 is a mod that starts an adventure path. I, and many like me, will be using it to start a campaign. For me it's not just a play test. All I am looking for is a little customer support to better utilize their product.
Uh, WotC did tell us that H1 was a full mod playable using the quick start rules. Well there are times in the mod when you need the full rules - or at least more rules than were provided. If WotC wanted to release a preview mod then they should have made sure to include only those aspects of the game covered by the quick start rules.

No offense, but I think a lot of us are treating H1 as a fully functional module that we will run after we get our core books and make characters, not a "preview module" that "only includes aspects of the game covered by quick start rules".
Those rules are insufficient to use the full contents of the mod. My players will not be able to run the mod again once all the rules are available. I am simply asking that they throw us a bone and give us a hand to run their mod.

You knew that you would not have all the rules and would have a limited set of rules. If your concern is really "playtesting" rather than simply "playing this new adventure as soon as possible!", I do no see how this module stops that or playtesting one of the many player-made adventures designed for D&D XP characters.

I don't know how good a module would be, if it could all be completed with "quick rules". I'm not sure how you could expect them to turn the quick rules into a mini-PHB just to make sure that players would NEVER need to refer to their PHB while running this adventure.
H1 was originally designed to come out at the same time as the core books if I remember correctly. The core books got pushed back and quick start rules were added to H1 in an effort to give people a taste of 4E before it came out. I'm not sure how anyone would expect it to function as a complete experience of the rules before they're even out. Yes I understand that there are certain things offered that you don't have rules for yet, but those rules weren't intended to be included in the first place. If it's a huge issue to your experience, why not just wait until the rules are actually released?
I dont think the OP was being demanding at all. He/She simply made a request. I dont think that request has a chance in Archon of being fullfilled, but he can ask. The most I would expect is something up on DDI-I mean how hard would it be? Whether it is in WotC's best interest to publish the list NOW is another very good question. I would guess no.

After the books are out, the DM should be able to fix the problems with very little hassle. Another point is that these are promo's and are probably free. It works in WotC's best interest to put out an enticing product for stores and gamers to sample, but it is not being touted as a 4E finnished product at this point. Frankly, I do not think WotC is bound to fix anything until the core books for the module are officially released.

Ian
WotC is not a gift horse - they are a corporation. The designed H1 as an introduction to the game to use with quick start rules. Those rules are insufficient to use the full contents of the mod. My players will not be able to run the mod again once all the rules are available. I am simply asking that they throw us a bone and give us a hand to run their mod.

Why can't they run it again? Does it self-destruct upon completion? I understand that you want more, so do I, but it's not going to happen. Having read the quick start rules, and the entire adventure, I am confident that you can complete it without having the full rule set. Yes, somethings may be left out and some encounters could certainly be made easier with the full rules, but I am convinced that it can be completed.
Just wait until the mod hits wide circulation - people will see the gaps and complain even louder. People are already on edge about the whole 3e to 4e transition as it is. Folks are already questioning Wizards ability to create quality products.

People who buy it and expect it to be complete are being foolish. It is a module, not a complete ruleset. The quick start rules may have been put in, more or less as an after thought. If you pick up the module and play it before you buy the rules you should be doing so knowing it's not complete, and just trying to get a feel for the rules. The quick start rules do a fine job with this as far as I'm concerned.
This product has holes that will not be filled until the rule come out yet it goes on sale 18 day ahead of the core rules. Why should my FLGS recommend H1 to anyone if it is an incomplete product and not the preview mod we were expecting?

Of course it's an incomplete product! It's a MODULE. I've never seen a module that comes with the complete rules of a RPG. Really, are you the type of person that would get a expansion pack for a computer game and complain that it wasn't the full game? I used to manage a video game store, and every now and then people would do this. They'd then try to return the open game. I'd refuse. The reason is they didn't read the box that said expansion pack. Yes I could have volunteered the info that it was an expansion, but I try to think that the person buying something should have a little bit of brain power to either know what an expansion (or adventure module) is before purchasing it. I shouldn't have to spell it out for them. If you know about RPG's and have been playing them for a while you probably know that a module is just an adventure not a complete game. You also will probably not want to play the quick start characters, you'd prefer to play your own.
Yes - we can look past the holes but what if the party finds that they are in need of one of the ritual like
Show
raise dead
which is available in Winterhaven?

What if the players want to make their own character rather than use one of the pre-gens? Should WotC then put out the character construction chapters of the PHB in a pdf download so you can play this module? I would say no, because that would be stupid on their part. Though it is usually referencing something else, 'why by the cow when you can get the milk for free?'
What if the above ritual is available for purchase but it requires components that can't be purchased in the town? The ritual could be like a DVD you buy from a store that only sells DVD movies. You need to buy the DVD player some place else and it may not be available at another store in the mall.
Remember - this is not just a "preview". H1 is a mod that starts an adventure path. I, and many like me, will be using it to start a campaign. For me it's not just a play test. All I am looking for is a little customer support to better utilize their product.

First of all, if you are playing or have recently played Keep on the Shadowfell, you are not a customer. You most likely have not payed for the module. You have either have a copy or have access to a copy gratis. I touched on this above, but are your players going to continue a campaign playing the quick start characters that have no choice of options for the first 3 levels? I would think not.

You should remember that you're lucky you're playing it early before the module is officially released on the 20th. Anyone who buys this module and runs it before the PHB, DMG and MM come out is probably just trying to learn the basic mechanics to the game, either to stop thinking in terms of 3.5 rules, such as is the case with my party, or because they have never played D&D before. The quick start rules give you a taste of what 4e (or D&D for the uninitiated) is like, and it is my opinion that they do a good job of it.
Hear, hear!

Actually, I am not going to be playing to "try it out" - I've been playing since 1978 and this time I'll be playing because I CAN'T WAIT TO START 4E! :D

What's the option for WotC now that the books have been pushed back? Why, they could push back the module, too. But, I'm sure that would have cost them some $ and, really, why do it? So, just PRETEND that WotC HAS pushed back the module so it lines up with the books and start playing the whole shebang on June 6 (or as close thereafter as you can snag all the above).

Me? I'm jumping in and running with the module, quick start rules, and Prerelease compilation. I'm sure I can wing it with regards to buying armor and we'll overlook rituals completely until they come out. Happy gaming!
The 3.5 PHB list of common gear should work well. The rituals certainly can't be faked because we don't know what rules are, at all. I'll just not even mention them - another surprise gift to the players when the books come out. Of course, I am not going to be playing through the entire module in that time. If I even dream of doing all three levels in the interim, that would stink. But that will be the price of having an enviable gaming schedule. :D
Egad.

It seems my point has been missed badly.

If H1 was supposed to be released with the full rules then they should have delayed it.

Instead they encouraged us to buy it (which I will one my FLGS gets more than the sample copy) and run it with the quickstart rules.

So I start to run it and find that there are some holes that could easily be plugged with little effort. Filling those holes would go a long way with customer relations - a shaky spot at the moment.

I was not asking for the whole PHB - just a price list and possibly some hint at what the rituals that are listed as being available in Winterhaven can actually do.

Sure - I can and will gloss over the rough spots. But that is what they are. They are holes in the repurposed "intro" mod that make it look less than polished. All I am asking is that Wizards help out and make this intro to 4e a little less frustrating to GM.
I have played through this almost all the way using basic gear for my Rogue. Daggers, short sword, light leather, adventures kit and have not bought a thing.

The adventure is supposed to be a overview of the rules and is playable as is. If you want to run it with blinged out gear you'll have to wait for the PHB to come out.

There will be web enhancements that will be released next week and the following.
Egad.

It seems my point has been missed badly.

If H1 was supposed to be released with the full rules then they should have delayed it.

Instead they encouraged us to buy it (which I will one my FLGS gets more than the sample copy) and run it with the quickstart rules.

So I start to run it and find that there are some holes that could easily be plugged with little effort. Filling those holes would go a long way with customer relations - a shaky spot at the moment.

I was not asking for the whole PHB - just a price list and possibly some hint at what the rituals that are listed as being available in Winterhaven can actually do.

Sure - I can and will gloss over the rough spots. But that is what they are. They are holes in the repurposed "intro" mod that make it look less than polished. All I am asking is that Wizards help out and make this intro to 4e a little less frustrating to GM.

Just asking for prices of equipment isn't going to help. So you can buy a shield, what does that shield give you? How about the sword or axe? What bonus' do they give you for being proficient? Every item that is for sale will also have to have the details about it. In essence, to fill in a gap with a price list you're going to get other gaps. You'd need the ENTIRE equipment section from the PHB to go a long with the price list, otherwise you're back at the same problem you have with the module right now. Not all the info. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Considering the amount of previews WotC is giving us, I think they are doing a great job with 'customer' relations. Especially since 4e isn't out yet so none of us can possibly be customers yet. I really get the feeling from how things play, how everything is written, that the people designing the game actually play D&D and care about the game. Sure they're trying to make money for Hasbro, but they're doing it something they enjoy. At least, that's how I feel about it. If that's the case, then it's good for us and the developers. I know how good it feels to actually make some money doing something you love. Not the easiest thing to do in todays society.

As a hint to what the
Show
Raise dead
ritual does, I would say it
Show
brings someone dead back to life
:P

I have played through this almost all the way using basic gear for my Rogue. Daggers, short sword, light leather, adventures kit and have not bought a thing.

The adventure is supposed to be a overview of the rules and is playable as is. If you want to run it with blinged out gear you'll have to wait for the PHB to come out.

There will be web enhancements that will be released next week and the following.

It's nice to see someone who knows more about 4e re-iterating what I said. You don't need extra equipment, just what they give you. I like validation. :D
It seems my point has been missed badly.

Nope, I don't think it has been.

There will be web enhancements that will be released next week and the following.

Hey, there's some good news for you.
There will be web enhancements that will be released next week and the following.

Thank you. I appreciate any help you guys can provide.
Nope, I don't think it has been.

No, not really. WotC does not always poop rainbows but the sycophants would have us all bow down and thank WotC rather than dare to ask for a little help.
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