A note to whomever writes adventures for 4th ed:

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i think published adventure in 4th edition need to make a drastic 180 degree turn.

if we take a look at a majority of 3rd editions published adventure we see an array of different situations... a fight with kobolds in a cave, a fight with ogres in a swamp, a fight with goblins in the mountains, a fight with x in y location. sometimes they delved into slightly more interesting situations, a fight with orcs on a bridge spanning a chasm, a fight with giants in a flooding room, a fight with x in y with z situational obstacle. etc

Honestly who cant come up with something like this, this isn't what DMs need. any self respecting dm or player can figure out mosters stats and put them into a setting, we need plot ideas, we need skill based encounters, we need strange situations to push our pcs through!

if one takes a look at 2nd ed adventures they were full of this, roleplaying encounters, trap rooms, plot twists, interesting stuff etc.

i am seeing less and less of this kindo of juicy stuff in todays adventures.

so i am asking whoever has any authority over this kind of stuff, give us real substantial ideas to work off of, we dont need crunched numbers in the form of monster stats, we can do this on our own. (this does not meen dont include stats in adventures this is an awesome time saver, im mearly trying to say dont make that the focus of the adventures)

((sorry about the spelling and stuff im posting this from a blackberry))

any comments?
I would have to agree. I think some of the best published adventures during 3e's reign were those that involved a very interesting storyline with some fantastic plot twists. I cannot actually recall the name of the adventure now, but there was one published that had to do with a strange horseman who allegedly haunted a small village in the woods, and there were wood elves allegedly attack the village... I think it was called the Standing Stone or something like that...

Anyway, it was brilliant. I would love to see more adventures like that.
any comments?

Agreed.

I believe that the delve format encourages that type of mind-set, which is one of the reasons why I dislike it so much. Creating a delve adventure that maps out everything from positioning of the mobs to their round by round actions like a sketch board on a movie set, does not lend itself to creative, fast and exciting combats. At least IMO it doesn't.
That info was designed for DMs who might lack the time to properly plan monster attack routines and the like. Nothing is forcing you to use those monsters, or adhere to the battle sequence action for action.

Though I am inclined to agree with the OP. Seems like quite a few of the modules today are simply "move from X to Y while killing everything in your way" style of blender adventures, with no real depth. This was why I was somewhat dissapointed with "tearing of the weave". Somehow, I felt like I was being led around the nose with no real way of influencing the setting.
Agreed.

A good "set encounter" should have maps (printable), stats, expected tactics, and soem pictures for players to see of the enemy, but also clever terrain issues and possibilities for players, personal player related issues/opportunities and some useful ties to the main plot. Knowing clearly the objectives of the critters, their morale and how coordinated they really are helps for flexibility in fights.

A good "adventure" needs to make people have strong feelings about the enemy and/or victims. Just like a good novel or movie does. For this to work players need to feel connected with the enemy; have a personal connection as part of a subplot, have reason to want the enemy dead for example. The enemy needs to have personality, usually a leader and a lieutenant to stand out and help players have a relationship with the enemy. Avoiding cliches is always good as well. Possible rewards tailored to a character are another good tie to focus players; magic items being an obvious choice and one that is better anticipated and earned through struggle than found in an old chest. And most of all the opportunity for players to shine at what they do best always makes for a memorable moments.
And this is why I fell in hate with Dungeon magazine and haven't bought an adventure module since The Apocalypse Stone. Almost from the beginning of 3E, adventures lost a lot of plot depth. Its not even just WotC's adventures, which, IMO the worst offenders, even 3PP adventures such as Dragon. I hated the "Adventure Paths" they felt like a bunch of Fetch Quests and Kill X number of Monster Y and then talk to person Z strung together with a backstory the adventures themselves did a poor job conveying.
You want a real good Adventure Path/Mega-adventure, check out Umbra dron Dragon Magazine, early 1995. That is an awesome adventure, and well, nothing I've seen since it has stood up.

The adventures I write for 4E will try to be more like Umbra than Age of Worms. Like I keep saying D&D is 90% PLOT and 10% numbers.
so i am asking whoever has any authority over this kind of stuff, give us real substantial ideas to work off of, we dont need crunched numbers in the form of monster stats, we can do this on our own. (this does not meen dont include stats in adventures this is an awesome time saver, im mearly trying to say dont make that the focus of the adventures)

While I understand where your coming from, and would certainly like to see more creative adventures myself, there are a lot of people that disagree.

A lot of the DMs that buy adventures are short of time or inexperienced. Those DMs are happy to see fairly simple adventures that are balanced and easy to run.

Jay
A lot of the DMs that buy adventures are short of time or inexperienced. Those DMs are happy to see fairly simple adventures that are balanced and easy to run.

It is even more important for the inexperienced DMs to be able to buy adventures that have plot ideas, skill based encounters and depth. That way they learn that good adventures have these elements.
i think published adventure in 4th edition need to make a drastic 180 degree turn.

if we take a look at a majority of 3rd editions published adventure we see an array of different situations... a fight with kobolds in a cave, a fight with ogres in a swamp, a fight with goblins in the mountains, a fight with x in y location. sometimes they delved into slightly more interesting situations, a fight with orcs on a bridge spanning a chasm, a fight with giants in a flooding room, a fight with x in y with z situational obstacle. etc

Honestly who cant come up with something like this, this isn't what DMs need. any self respecting dm or player can figure out mosters stats and put them into a setting, we need plot ideas, we need skill based encounters, we need strange situations to push our pcs through!

if one takes a look at 2nd ed adventures they were full of this, roleplaying encounters, trap rooms, plot twists, interesting stuff etc.

i am seeing less and less of this kindo of juicy stuff in todays adventures.

so i am asking whoever has any authority over this kind of stuff, give us real substantial ideas to work off of, we dont need crunched numbers in the form of monster stats, we can do this on our own. (this does not meen dont include stats in adventures this is an awesome time saver, im mearly trying to say dont make that the focus of the adventures)

((sorry about the spelling and stuff im posting this from a blackberry))

any comments?

I don't know about other publishers, but Magique Productions promises that the adventures we will be publishing for 4e shall indeed have much more than monster x in environment y. Interesting plots and characters are what make an adventure worthwhile. In addition to our published works for OSRIC, which shall be upgraded and expanded for 4e, we plan to release many more modules with great stories.
My LFR Modules:
Show
EAST1-3 Unbidden (H3) EAST2-3 Nightmares (P1) NETH3-1 Secrets and Shadows (Paragon Tier) (Author) ELTU3-6 True Blue (Heroic Tier) (Author) EPIC3-3 The Tangled Skein of Destiny (Co-Author) ABER4-3 A Little Rebellion (Paragon Tier) (Author) WATE4-1 Paying the Piper (Heroic Tier) (Co-Author)
I think and hope that the Skill Challenge mechanic will offer a new era in adventure writing.
Tastes are tastes, there is many kinds of adventures - and a battles-heavy one is as worthy as a dramatic WW-grade one.
One of my favourite preprinted adventures was some old Ravenloft thing I downloaded a long while back. There was a murder in a little town in Kartakass (a big forested region, with small lumberjack towns and and dark moonlit nights filled with howling wolves). The only potential fights were some wolfweres stalking from the forest (just to increase tension, and make the players assume that it must have been one of them invovled in the murder), a ghost, and the actual killer, right at end

The rest of it was pure roleplaying, and it must have been one of my most memorable times DMing. The players really took to the game, questioned the NPCs, thought about motives- and I had a blast playign all these NPCs and trying to convey their personalities...


I really hope we can get some solid RP style adventures like this, and I really think this Skill Challenge mechanic will encourage more producers to include RP sections in their game, since its now possible to actually write an encounter for the situation, rather than just saying "okay. heres some NPCs. roleplay them"