Open discussion: BUILD A CITY 4.0!!!

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I'm going to toss in my opnion that having a ready-to-go mineral supply seems, well too easy. We incorperated things in other threads that seemed to at least follow a timeline, giving the residents something as large as an existing mine just waiting.....

I love the idea of a geothermal spring, this would be a true asset to the residents (read cold frozen winters) and its implication would be minimum in the long run.

I see some of the hardships facing the settlers being weather, wandering monsters, whatever forced the last residents to leave, and possibly resource competition.

If we are going to place no PC types in the begining than those 'living' in the caves should be either defeatable, or able to be cajoled or bargined with. This would make a great oppertunity for interaction or introduction of another sub-set within the town.

Just as a side note on the Moss (not sure where we stand on this) but it's a wonderful concept, my only suggestion is that aside from 'leeching' iron from the ore, fantastic idea, would this moss then by be an enemy of another metal..mabey corroding steel only to get to the iron...? This would mean all the metalwork in the area would be possibly cold-forged iron, or brass or bronze or something even more exotic.

Just tossin' some stuff out
In defense of the seasonal access scenario, it is not the geothermal source that varies seasonally. The underground stream/river, which is (theoretically) primarily fed by the snow thaws and would rise and fall depending on the season.

(Just a voice of reason, not specifically trying to kill this idea.)

If the geothermal spring is fed by a outside source, then during a particularly bad winter, when the spring is needed most, there is a possibility of the stream freezing up altogether. This would negate the original purpose of the thermal spring (helping the refugees survive harsh winters). I would also note that the survival of our giant tortoises will depend greatly on the geothermal spring, unless they are warm blooded...

We don't have official votes for the iron vein a day's journey (into the mountains?) from the redoubt, but it has some strong support. It gives plenty of ore to be exploited when the city is large enough, but allows us to limit when and how the refugees find the ore. The idea seems to have the support to pass, but to make it official...

I propose that the iron that was in the caves behind the redoubt was extensively mined out by the dwarves long ago, and that the nearest source of iron ore be in a vein that is one day's journey by horseback from the redoubt.

Also, I propose that the vein be marked by ferrousleech moss, a rare, iron-extracting moss that is native to the vein, making it identifiable by someone with some sort of nature or survival knowledge, as well as prospectors.

Three votes either way will get this taken care of, and anyone but me can vote (since they are technically my proposals).

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I support the vote.
We don't have official votes for the iron vein a day's journey (into the mountains?) from the redoubt, but it has some strong support. It gives plenty of ore to be exploited when the city is large enough, but allows us to limit when and how the refugees find the ore. The idea seems to have the support to pass, but to make it official...

I propose that the iron that was in the caves behind the redoubt was extensively mined out by the dwarves long ago, and that the nearest source of iron ore be in a vein that is one day's journey by horseback from the redoubt.

Also, I propose that the vein be marked by ferrousleech moss, a rare, iron-extracting moss that is native to the vein, making it identifiable by someone with some sort of nature or survival knowledge, as well as prospectors.

Three votes either way will get this taken care of, and anyone but me can vote (since they are technically my proposals).

I'll vote for the vein a day's journey away from the redoubt, and I'll vote for the moss marking the vein, however I'm still ambivalent towards iron as the ore in question. It's just too broadly useful for my tastes.
(Just a voice of reason, not specifically trying to kill this idea.)

If the geothermal spring is fed by a outside source, then during a particularly bad winter, when the spring is needed most, there is a possibility of the stream freezing up altogether. This would negate the original purpose of the thermal spring (helping the refugees survive harsh winters). I would also note that the survival of our giant tortoises will depend greatly on the geothermal spring, unless they are warm blooded...

I agree, changing the nature of the geothermal spring would change the flavor of the valley completely. If it were brought to a vote, I'd be against it.

We don't have official votes for the iron vein a day's journey (into the mountains?) from the redoubt, but it has some strong support. It gives plenty of ore to be exploited when the city is large enough, but allows us to limit when and how the refugees find the ore. The idea seems to have the support to pass, but to make it official...

I propose that the iron that was in the caves behind the redoubt was extensively mined out by the dwarves long ago, and that the nearest source of iron ore be in a vein that is one day's journey by horseback from the redoubt.

Also, I propose that the vein be marked by ferrousleech moss, a rare, iron-extracting moss that is native to the vein, making it identifiable by someone with some sort of nature or survival knowledge, as well as prospectors.

Three votes either way will get this taken care of, and anyone but me can vote (since they are technically my proposals).

I vote yes:
There is no more iron (silver, gold, mithral) to be mined in the caves; the supply has been completely depleted by the the redoubts former inhabitants (dwarves.) Instead, a vein of ore may be found in one-day's travel through the valley above the redoubt.

I also vote yeah, sure!:
A new plant, ferrousleach moss, grows on the surface of iron deposits. I'd like to further extend the idea by suggesting that the herbalists and apothecaries are able to find some use for the moss. (You know, if we keep this up, Wizards may have to start paying us. :D )
I support the vote.

To clarify, do you mean that you are voting yes? If so, the propositions are carried.
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I'll support the ore idea, if it's slightly further than a day away. Perhaps a day with good mounts, but further via walking.

I also think it would be interesting of a vein of fools gold was located near the same area as the iron. This could attract some sort of creatures which have made their home in the area of the ore vein. Whether or not they would be friendly remains to be seen.

I like the moss idea.

My main concern is that we're making a lot of things too readily available right from the start.
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I agree with what Johnny says so what do we add to make life in the area a little more tricky....?

What if.....

ferrousleech moss does exist but aside frm leeching ore it also leeches from worked iron...this could be a monor reason that the settlement left, nothing would remain "leech-free" and all door knobs, hinges, chain, cooking pots, strength plates on all major construction, weapons and armor would begin to decay slowly........

No biggie for a passing through adventure party, but think of your home or business with constantly rusting and coroding or "leeching" iron......?

PS love the name of the moss...!
What if.....

ferrousleech moss does exist but aside frm leeching ore it also leeches from worked iron...this could be a monor reason that the settlement left, nothing would remain "leech-free" and all door knobs, hinges, chain, cooking pots, strength plates on all major construction, weapons and armor would begin to decay slowly........

That is along the lines of my origional thoughts when I saw the ferrousleech moss. But then I started thinking about what that would mean. If iron is deposited in the outer crust, what is there to stop the moss from feeding off of the moss. Then it occured to me, the moss isn't after the iron, but rather it is a biproduct. Iron ore is most commonly found in the form of the iron oxide hematite (Fe2O3), or iron (Fe2) and ozone (O3). This got me thinking that perhaps the moss thrives off of ozone, which it derives from the hematite iron ore, and the pure iron is a byproduct.

The process is so slow that the only real use is to identify a rich vein of hematite (iron ore), and provide a quick source of iron which has been produced over the centuries, but which is also quickly depleted.

Edit: :lightbulb The moss would eat rust (with a byproduct of water and pure iron)! The moss, instead of being a nuisance, could be used to remove rust, from which the iron can be reharvested! Holy crap!

Ferrousleech moss is often found growing on rust monsters, which might at first seem odd, but in fact the two lifeforms have a very symbiotic relationship. The rust monster produces rust, though will not put forth the effort to eat all of the flakes of rust. This is where the ferrousleech moss comes in, converting the rust back into edible sized chunks of iron, which rustmonsters clean off of eachother.

Or maybe I need more sleep...
PS love the name of the moss...!

It seemed obvious. :shrug:
That is along the lines of my origional thoughts when I saw the ferrousleech moss. But then I started thinking about what that would mean. If iron is deposited in the outer crust, what is there to stop the moss from feeding off of the moss. Then it occured to me, the moss isn't after the iron, but rather it is a biproduct. Iron ore is most commonly found in the form of the iron oxide hematite (Fe2O3), or iron (Fe2) and ozone (O3). This got me thinking that perhaps the moss thrives off of ozone, which it derives from the hematite iron ore, and the pure iron is a byproduct.

The process is so slow that the only real use is to identify a rich vein of hematite (iron ore), and provide a quick source of iron which has been produced over the centuries, but which is also quickly depleted.

Edit: :lightbulb The moss would eat rust (with a byproduct of water and pure iron)! The moss, instead of being a nuisance, could be used to remove rust, from which the iron can be reharvested! Holy crap!

Ferrousleech moss is often found growing on rust monsters, which might at first seem odd, but in fact the two lifeforms have a very symbiotic relationship. The rust monster produces rust, though will not put forth the effort to eat all of the flakes of rust. This is where the ferrousleech moss comes in, converting the rust back into edible sized chunks of iron, which rustmonsters clean off of eachother.

Or maybe I need more sleep...

It seemed obvious. :shrug:

It may seem obvious, but it sounds wonderful! I might even steal it, if you don't mind.
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It may seem obvious, but it sounds wonderful! I might even steal it, if you don't mind.

The name? Sure, but the idea was graddlin's:
The iron ore is deep in the rock and nearly impossible to get to by conventional means. However, a rare type of moss grows in the cave. This moss leeches minerals from the stone around it. Waste, such as ferrous material, is depostied upon the moss' surface.

While it takes a little while to gather mass amounts of iron (perhaps a month per pound) the ability to do so is there. The price of iron ore and iron products, if this idea were to be implemented, would be high.

FYI, I gave Jessie the stablegirl a blue dress just for you. ;)
Great point on the Moss, and by my post last night I was more tired than I thought, (D*** spellcheck.!) I could see all the benefits associated with the moss clearly now.

I was thinking on the geothermal spring, and doing some quick checking is there any reason it wouldn't be anything like those in Yellowstone...? Complete with the blubbling mud and constant........well smell.? Something like sulphur and or old gym socks, it would make the pro vs con debate level out right..?

Imagine a mineral rich hot spring, that provides everything a spring could including a warm spot for the turtles, but with a unique aroma....?

Benefit or Hinderance....?
Hi, firstly want to say that this is an amazing thread

I wish I had gotten into early enough to suggest a refugee idea

as far as the hot spring, I think that it could serve as a benefit and a hindrance
The D.S.T would need a winter heat source, but being dire it wouldn't always be the friendliest creature. I can see the hot spring as a resource for use by the community, but there is an omni-present danger there of facing a territorial dire snapping turtle

just my thought

I think I am going to add this city right into my campaign

its freaking amazing
I am most pleased that many of you enjoy the idea of the mineral-leeching moss. Dougan's proposals for the herbalist inclusions and mineral deposits that enrich the valley are most pleasing to my ears.

The moss, being rich in minerals, could very well be a remedy used by the town folk to cure certain ailments.
Or we could go with something a little darker: perhaps the moss causes hemophilia if ingested due to its high concentrations of iron and other minerals that both inrich and break down red blood cells when in high concentrations.

Of course, we could go with the old-hat idea that the moss produces a natural light source. Perhaps the minerals the moss extracts from the surounding rock fuels this biological glow. Perhaps the town folk sell live colonies of the moss to prospectors from the outside world, proclaiming that it will prosper in areas rich in ore ("Ye'll ne'er have ta' toil long seeking yer ore with this.").

Take care, friends.
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I agree with what Johnny says so what do we add to make life in the area a little more tricky....?

What if.....

ferrousleech moss does exist but aside frm leeching ore it also leeches from worked iron...this could be a monor reason that the settlement left, nothing would remain "leech-free" and all door knobs, hinges, chain, cooking pots, strength plates on all major construction, weapons and armor would begin to decay slowly........

No biggie for a passing through adventure party, but think of your home or business with constantly rusting and coroding or "leeching" iron......?

PS love the name of the moss...!

Show
That is along the lines of my origional thoughts when I saw the ferrousleech moss. But then I started thinking about what that would mean. If iron is deposited in the outer crust, what is there to stop the moss from feeding off of the moss. Then it occured to me, the moss isn't after the iron, but rather it is a biproduct. Iron ore is most commonly found in the form of the iron oxide hematite (Fe2O3), or iron (Fe2) and ozone (O3). This got me thinking that perhaps the moss thrives off of ozone, which it derives from the hematite iron ore, and the pure iron is a byproduct.

The process is so slow that the only real use is to identify a rich vein of hematite (iron ore), and provide a quick source of iron which has been produced over the centuries, but which is also quickly depleted.

Edit: :lightbulb The moss would eat rust (with a byproduct of water and pure iron)! The moss, instead of being a nuisance, could be used to remove rust, from which the iron can be reharvested! Holy crap!

Ferrousleech moss is often found growing on rust monsters, which might at first seem odd, but in fact the two lifeforms have a very symbiotic relationship. The rust monster produces rust, though will not put forth the effort to eat all of the flakes of rust. This is where the ferrousleech moss comes in, converting the rust back into edible sized chunks of iron, which rustmonsters clean off of eachother.

You know... with a little creativity, we could utilize both ideas for the moss: it cleans rust and can be used to find ore, but if it isn't kept in check it reak havoc on a supply of iron. I think that would make for an interesting duality with the moss.

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Hi, firstly want to say that this is an amazing thread

I wish I had gotten into early enough to suggest a refugee idea

as far as the hot spring, I think that it could serve as a benefit and a hindrance
The D.S.T would need a winter heat source, but being dire it wouldn't always be the friendliest creature. I can see the hot spring as a resource for use by the community, but there is an omni-present danger there of facing a territorial dire snapping turtle

just my thought

I think I am going to add this city right into my campaign

its freaking amazing

Welcome to the thread, and we welcome your ideas. It isn't too late to make suggestions about anything; nothing's final until July when the BACT thread receives its first post (and even then we'll have vote to make everything truly official.)

Great idea with the tortoise too. A tempermental D.S.T. (possibly a bull, or pregnant female; or even a pod) could even be the resident 'cave dweller' as the villagers first antagonist in the valley. (Just furthering the idea.)
I was thinking about the possible ways to make life 'hard' in this new enviroment, now before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not looking to wreck this, only to add some reality or more importantly to add to the flavor.

Some of the things I rumbled around in my head were:

1) Mobility, more or less the ability to move from the bottom of the hill to the top. It may seem simple but looking at the drawings (*excellent drawings by the way) it indeed looks steep....How would a limited number of residents effectivly move from the bottom up without expending too much energy to make it worth while. or in converse how to move from the top down say with a heavy load....?

2) Livestock, have we considered the fact that most of the farmers and hearders will need to live in the valley, only to be closer to thier herds and tend thier harvests.....How big and far away is the valley anyway...?

3) Bandits, this one can be tricky either the bandits are using the area as a 'hideout' and would be surprised to find several new people living in thier comfortable little get away, or even worse they just capture and enslave the populace.....remember with no real fighting classes, at the start, it wouldn't be hard for only a few bandits to put a big hurt on the people....

4) Wandering Monsters, yes we have great big turtles, but stop to consider. What would consider a giant turtle.............................A really good snack...!

Just for thought
I was thinking about the possible ways to make life 'hard' in this new enviroment, now before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not looking to wreck this, only to add some reality or more importantly to add to the flavor.

Some of the things I rumbled around in my head were:

1) Mobility, more or less the ability to move from the bottom of the hill to the top. It may seem simple but looking at the drawings (*excellent drawings by the way) it indeed looks steep....How would a limited number of residents effectivly move from the bottom up without expending too much energy to make it worth while. or in converse how to move from the top down say with a heavy load....?

2) Livestock, have we considered the fact that most of the farmers and hearders will need to live in the valley, only to be closer to thier herds and tend thier harvests.....How big and far away is the valley anyway...?

3) Bandits, this one can be tricky either the bandits are using the area as a 'hideout' and would be surprised to find several new people living in thier comfortable little get away, or even worse they just capture and enslave the populace.....remember with no real fighting classes, at the start, it wouldn't be hard for only a few bandits to put a big hurt on the people....

4) Wandering Monsters, yes we have great big turtles, but stop to consider. What would consider a giant turtle.............................A really good snack...!

Just for thought

Giant Wasps that, much like the Tarantual-killing wasps of southwest and Central America, kill and lay their eggs within the giant turtles. What better protection for your young than an armored carrapace?
The wasps might even defend the turtles against individuals interested in killing them off; they might be a rare or nearly extinct form of insect that absolutely cannot afford to have the incubators for their eggs destroyed.

Take care, friend.
Giant Wasps that, much like the Tarantual-killing wasps of southwest and Central America, kill and lay their eggs within the giant turtles. What better protection for your young than an armored carrapace?
The wasps might even defend the turtles against individuals interested in killing them off; they might be a rare or nearly extinct form of insect that absolutely cannot afford to have the incubators for their eggs destroyed.

Take care, friend.

That spawned the image, in my head, of giant Botflys that implant eggs which grow to football sized maggots in the host.

Then I really, reeeally wanted a stiff drink or two to forget that image.

If you don't know what a botfly is, short version is that it is similar to the flies that lay maggot eggs, with the notable, horrifying exception that these eggs are planted in living creatures and the maggots feed on living tissue.

Reeeealy want that drink now.
I like that idea of the giant wasps! Perhaps they have nests either in the ground or in the surrounding cave system.
I like that idea of the giant wasps! Perhaps they have nests either in the ground or in the surrounding cave system.

That is the first thing I would torch... first winter when they are all hibernating, any refugee with enough survival skill should know how to take care of the problem.

Is there any reason why the surrounding wildlife is extremely vulnerable to giantism? Perhaps the geothermal mineral water has special properties that may lead to heightened stature of our future residents...

The other consideration is what human-sized, highly aggressive, natural born, carnivorous killers would mean to our small group of refugees, which is why I vote against the giant wasps and highly aggressive dire giant snapping tortoises, though gods save you if you provoke one...

As always, my opinions are subject to change in the face of a good argument.
Is there any reason why the surrounding wildlife is extremely vulnerable to giantism? Perhaps the geothermal mineral water has special properties that may lead to heightened stature of our future residents...

That... could be interesting... though hopefully it would take a few years, or a few generations, to affect change.

If that idea was used, it could be that the well of worlds (are we still using that?) inside the cave could infuse the water with extraplanar essence, that could have a cumulative effect on inhabitants of the valley.

As a further perhaps, it may be 'Dire'-ism at first followed by giantism.

The flora of the valley would start to get rather impressive... In a few seasons crop yields could get comparatively impressive for the little valley.

The other consideration is what human-sized, highly aggressive, natural born, carnivorous killers would mean to our small group of refugees, which is why I vote against the giant wasps and highly aggressive dire giant snapping tortoises, though gods save you if you provoke one...

I vote against giant wasps for the same reason... too imminently lethal and too quickly defeated when the weather changes.

I have no problem with the DSTs being highly agressive when provoked or threatened. Fortunately for the refugees, the DSTs, being armored like an abrams tank and armed with the Jaws of Life, probably have a fairly short list of what it considers threatening or provocational, and a much longer list of what can simply be ignored.
I am considering starting a play-by-post commoner campaign surrounding the foundation of Thorast Kax, or Nesbith as it was first called before Thorsat imprisoned the gold dragon and the city was renamed. I don't think I am going to start the campaign until the release of 4E, but I wanted to see if there was any interest here in the TBACT4 prep thread.

My thoughts are that it would cover one month's time every week of play, and require two postings a week from active players. All actions would be taken into consideration in a weekly chronicling of events done by me, the DM. It would be very much in the spirit of the TBACT and the Commoner Campaign, where each player would control the actions of one NPC. I imagine the OOC post to be almost as active as a normal TBACT, with suggestions and discussion relevant to the month's events and any upcoming events.

The Tale of Nesbith would begin at the arrival of the town's first inhabitants, and most likely play through the birth of Thorast Kax, the building of the lighthouse, battles with gnoll raiders, the arrival of the gold dragon, and many more historical events.

If I garner enough interest I may start a separate thread for continued discussions, much like this thread for the TBACT.
Color me interested.

I didn't like the idea of aggressive turtles either. And for the wasps I didn't think of them as carnivorous, just deadly if you say run up to a nest and throw rocks. What -do- wasps eat anyway? * goes to wikipedia*
A common,non-monstrous predator that could be a potential threat to travelers and villagers that stray beyond the safety of the village and well-traveled roads is the Mountain Lion or a form of great cat much like the Snow Leopard.
Such animals are not necessarily a threat if they are given a wide birth, however, they very easily could become a problem if they start killing and making-off with livestock.

Hmmm...,maybe something akin to the prehistoric Cave Lion would fill the role of "natural predator" around the community's region. Such creatures, while large, are not abnormal and could provide the villagers with rare pelts that can be sold or worn as trophies. Who knows? Perhaps one of the "tests of manhood" amongst the villagers is for young men to go forth in a hunting group to take down one of the large cats and bring back its claws, skin, and teeth. The claws of such a cat could be made of ivory; a rare and valuable prize for anyone willing to tempt fate to aquire them.

Take care, friends.
I'd say that we don't need a specific large predator. A local pack of wolves and a bear or two might fulfill the role of natural predators nicely. It doesn't have to be exotic to be a nuisance and a threat.

Also, if we still wanted to use a singular monster, maybe it should be a single individual or extremely small population, like a grey render and child or a single old displacer beast that lives nearby. I feel like that would lend a bit more power to the monster (because a rare monster will never become everyday) and also keep open an plot hook in a way that a large population wouldn't (would you rather: Face the powerful Grey Render that keeps harrasing the miners or kill a small pack of lions that's been hanging around for a couple of months?)

Also, I agree with the non-aggresive tortoises. I'd imagine that they would be dangerous if hunted but would probably ignore pretty much everything (including being pestered by small children). They'd be a definite danger if angered, but other wise would be content to sit in the water for a while (Also, why can't the tortoises just hibernate in the winter?).
(Also, why can't the tortoises just hibernate in the winter?).

A combination of a lack of the ability to hide itself with the ever more desperate hungry wolves of winter make hibernation problematic for the tortoise.

Also, I think that pumas/cougars/mountain lions work just as well, and are just as rare, as wolves and bears. I'm not so sure about a "cave lion" however...
I have to say I'd vote against making the only threat from something like lions or wolves. Such animals rarely go near large groups of humans such as a settlement. They might prove a threat to children wandering the woods and livestock, but nothing else.

I like the idea of something rare. A single or small group of rare monsters sounds good. On another note, the majority of wasps/hornets are not carnivorous and would actually be about as dangerous to the general population as a wolf. They eat the same stuff that bees do: nectar. Or they feed off secretions the children make...creeepy.
4) Wandering Monsters, yes we have great big turtles, but stop to consider. What would consider a giant turtle.............................A really good snack...!

What about a mated pair of giant eagles? Since normal sized eagles sometimes prey on normal tortoises, giant ones might do the same.
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If you think commoners can't do anything, you should meet Joe Wood! The pen is mightier than the sword - but only if the sword is very small and the pen is very sharp - Terry Pratchett Methinks (still) wizards bit off more than they can chew. fantasy-28.gif
I like that idea. It's singular enough to be interesting, but not too weird to be totally out of place. I'd vote for a pair of giant eagles.

Also, makes me think of the philosopher (sorry, can't remember his name) who was killed by having a tortoise dropped on him.

Also, on the hibernation thing: A lot of turtles will hibernate underwater. "The turtle will seek cover in the bottom of its pond and reduce its oxygen requirement by reducing its body processes, taking in oxygen through the mucous membranes of its throat and cloaca." I know they're tortoises, but if we can accept that they'd hang out in hotsprings, we can accept that they hibernate underwater.
I have to say I'd vote against making the only threat from something like lions or wolves. Such animals rarely go near large groups of humans such as a settlement. They might prove a threat to children wandering the woods and livestock, but nothing else.

I like the idea of something rare. A single or small group of rare monsters sounds good.

I was really only saying that it makes sense for cougars to be in the area. As for an appropriate first encounter/resident of the redoubt, I think that (in honor of Stephen Colbert, arguably the most famous D&D player) it should be the home of a grizzly bear.

The important thing to remember is that there is no PC class characters in our group of refugees, the best we'll have are the 4E equivalent of warriors. Also, I believe it was mentioned that it would work well if the resident could provide some fresh food for our refugees, who will arrive after a long month on the trail.

On another note, the majority of wasps/hornets are not carnivorous and would actually be about as dangerous to the general population as a wolf. They eat the same stuff that bees do: nectar. Or they feed off secretions the children make...creeepy.

Wolfs don't fly and don't have nests to protect. Most wasps (including hornets, yellow jackets ["meat bees"], and their close relatives ants) kill and eat other insects, and are omnivorous. Were a wasp the size of a human (or a human child) it would consider them to be food.

A type of giant (basketball sized) honey-bee could fill vast caverns with honey, still attack when defending it's nest, but be far less aggressive. In the dead of winter, a few well prepared residents might be able to manage stealing a few gallons worth of honeycomb, a sweet treat for a deal of risk.

In order for any species of bee to build wax nests we will need a source of nectar/pollen that is accessible to giant bees. I am liking the whole giantism aspect, so mayhaps the grapes that have been mentioned growing in the valley could be of a giant variety (the opposite of dwarf grapes!), like big sweet watery pears.

Can you tell I'm hungry?
I like that idea. It's singular enough to be interesting, but not too weird to be totally out of place. I'd vote for a pair of giant eagles.

I vote yes on giant eagles, who live high up in the mountains and prey on young turtles and unguarded livestock, though are wary of humanoids (an aversion to the gnoll hunters of the plains perhaps).
Also, on the hibernation thing: A lot of turtles will hibernate underwater. "The turtle will seek cover in the bottom of its pond and reduce its oxygen requirement by reducing its body processes, taking in oxygen through the mucous membranes of its throat and cloaca." I know their tortoises, but if we can accept that they'd hang out in hotsprings, we can accept that they hibernate underwater.

I can buy that. The super oxygenated water (from the waterfall) of the pond/lake would be perfect for just such a setup.
I gotta say that I also vote yes for the giant eagles, thats just too cool...

I also like the thought of the 'spring' causing the growth of both the plants and the animals, but I don't want this to become a Lost World type of thing. Nothing aginst those settings but if we were inclined in a direction to ingrain the spring and its special properties to the area I coud invision something like a Common Pathway Community that includes the larger animals.

The thought of the spring possibly causing amazingly large harvests has some possibilities also.......think of the instant commerce boost of showing up to market with potatoes that are as large as basketballs, and carrots as long as your arm. An entire sub-plot could be developed around this alone, how to market it, how to protect it, ect., ect.,

As always more good stuff from the posters on the board.

Thank You for the creativity..........
I would support the area being especially fertile, but I would not support a magical spring. Hot springs ok, but I feel that we should try to avoid having a plethora of unusual things nearby. Not that potatoes the size of basketballs isn't interesting (and could work in another setting) just that I don't want this to detract from the things we already have. It's like a novel: It's generally best to have a few well defined characters than a large group of less examined ones.
Nevermind.
Just adding ideas for the last seven people.

???

I think we have all 69 people, including 4 fully fleshed out wranglers and an eladrin family. I'm not sure where you're getting the missing people. Is the front page updated?

I'm not sure on people's thoughts regarding adding more refugees...
Here is the latest update:
Updated refugee, resource, and skill breakdown:
HUMANS:
Carpenter's Family
Koren (carpenter), plus wife and two sons (2 Adults, 2 Children; 3m, 1f).

Description: Koren grew up in a seaside city, learning his father's trade and becoming an accomplished shipwright. When he lost both of his brothers to the sea, he closed up shop and moved inland, where he as worked as a carpenter in [Old City]. While much work was available in [Old City] after the dragon attack, Moses convinced him that the attack was not over. Since moving to [Old City], he has bowed to the demands of his customers and kept to the prevailing styles of the city, but now he feels a renewal of his youthful ambitions and dreams, and Koren thinks he can make a mark in this new settlement, artistically speaking.

Skills: Carpentry (Koren and his sons), wicker weaving (wife).

Resources: Carpenter's tools, a cart (for hauling lumber) and mule.
Nan Kya's Orphans
Nan Kya (cook and herbalist), Jessie (stablegirl), Tam (linkboy) and Rat (mudlarker and occasional pickpocket) who currently has a badly sprained leg. (1 elderly, 3 children; 2m, 2f).

Description: Nan Kya is unofficial third granny to many of the children in the slum quarter of [Old City] and when disaster struck and scattered their families, it was Nan Kya that the lost children gravitated to. In the days that followed, most of the children were reclaimed by their parents, older siblings and street gangs, but three remain with nowhere else to go and Kya has taken them under her wing.

Although justifiably renowned for her ability to make even the poorest food taste good, it is in fact the medical side of her herb lore that the local adults revere. Nan Kya, they say, is the person to turn to when you can't go to the temples and the official healers or alchemists - for whatever reason, be it cost, or fear, or simply having a bounty on your head.

Skills: Cooking, healing, and herbalism.

Resources: Spices, herbs, and a grand old black cauldron.
Noble Swine
Lyndon Merriweather a noble, his wife Fionna, and two daughters (2 adults, 2 children; 1m, 3f).

Description: Lyndon Merriweather had come from a prestigious, well-to-do family. His family holdings were spread far across the city, with monetary influence in almost every walk of life. Lyn had it all. And he wasted it daily. He was a spoiled, rich brat, never having to work a day in his life for anything. Everything that he wanted he could purchase, from his clothes, to his house, to his "education", to his every whim. Typically, he could be seen at one of the local taverns, frittering away coin on boozing, gambling, and whoring. No one really liked him, not that he cared; with all of his money and power, no one could really do anything about it. This was a life that he was used to.

He had an arranged marriage, and wasn't even old enough to speak up for himself when the deal was made. With his own inheritance and the dowry of his wife, he would have been able to drink away the next fifty years, had he lived that long. Fionna was pretty, though not as stunning as some of the women that he frequented. They had two daughters who barely knew their father.

Lyndon became the unwilling financier of the refugees, when he tactlessly threw himself at Ariana, not realizing that she too was of noble birth. The fact that his money had bought many of the provisions was a fact that he would not soon forget, and would lord over any who questioned his slothfulness.

Skills: None.

Resources: (TBD)
Wranglers
Jackson, Uther "Bear" Daar, Mikael "Mikey" Karlsson, and Puma Felidae, cattle wranglers and ranch hands (4 adults; 3m, 1f).

Description: The distant flames seemed to light up Jackson's eyes against the canvas of his dark skin in the shadows of the night. His first thoughts were of Ariana. He thought she had said she was coming back to the city today. For once he hoped that she was late.

Jackson found Bear, his face buried in his meaty paws. A man who could bare knuckle coldcock a horse, reduced to a whimpering child. Bear's horse was a heavy clod, too dumb to flee.

Puma, arguably the most cunning wrangler, had managed to wrangle a dozen head of cattle up into a draw, trusting (correctly) that the others would find her.

The three found Mikael, the youngest, smallest of the wranglers, still sound asleep back at camp.

That Mikey...

Skills: Handling animals and martial training.

Resources: Four well bred riding horses, riding gear, whips and other weaponry.
The Farmer's Family
Costran, Farm Family Patriarch, plus wife Dhalitha and sons Dexis and Lorten (1 elderly, 3 adult; 3m, 1f).

Description: Costran has farmed all his life, and is rather successful about it. He oversees large farming plots outside the city, growing crops on rotating years, and even trying his hand at winemaking as a hobby. He has four three strong sons from his first (late) wife, and has remarried Dhalitha , an attractive young foreign-born dancer Costran met in the city, much to the dismay of his sons who think she might be after his land and money. In his youthful days, Costran became a devoted follower of the local religion, converted by the newly-confirmed priestess Moses. When he heard that Moses was having a bit of a crisis of faith, he decided to follow her on her pilgrimage, and make sure these "danged younguns who ain't known a hard days work" didn't get themselves in trouble. He turned his farm over to his eldest son and his wife to take care of while he went on this little trip, and took his two younger sons Dexis and Lorten along with him.

Skills: Farming (Costran and his sons), wood-cutting (Lorten) and entertainment (Dhalitha).

Resources: Farming implements (plow, etc.), (?) seed and a couple of good draft horses.
Hoffman Family
Randell, wife Jacqueline, brother Jarett, and son Payton (3 adults, 1 Child; 3m 1f)

Description:With their parents recently deceased, Randell and Jarett maintained a small potato farm far outside of [Old City]. On [Old City's] fateful day, the Hoffman family only saw brief glimpses of the life altering event. When refugees started making their way out, they threw the farmstead open to help those in need. Sticking together and helping out where ever they can, they joined the refugees out to a future unknown.

Skills: Potato farming (Randell), wood-cutting (Jarett) and mending (Jacqueline).

Resources: Mule, cart, plow and potatoes.
Ariana the Falconer
Ariana: falconer and prodigal noble (1 adult; 1f).

Description: Born the unexpected fourth child to the noble Aquila family allowed Ariana to be freed of most of the obligations and expectations of her older siblings. Lacking a strong hand to guide her into being a typical noble, Ariana found herself drawn to the wilderness and the freedom to be found there. Though considered uncouth and snubbed by her noble peers, it was this relaxed nature that allows her to interact easily with commoners and has allowed her to stand forward in these times of troubles.
Full Description Found Here

Skills: Wilderness survival, diplomacy and martial training.

Resources: (TBD)
Urchin Bandon
Urchin, once homeless (1 adult; 1m)

Description: Like any street kid, Klein "the Urchin" Bandon had had a hard life, one which nearly doubled his apparent age. Now sixteen, he looked nearly thirty, which had played to his favor. He was uncommonly strong for his age, which could be attributed mostly to his iron will and good cooking. His strength, combined with his older looks, had allowed him to work at the docks since he was only twelve. The wages barely paid for food, so what food he bought was usually in the form of raw ingredients, which Nan Kya, his adopted grandmother, was more than willing to cook up.

The docks were closed for solstice, which left Klein to his other "profession", spending the day collecting on the generosity of others. He was at the temple pavilion when the lighthouse gave birth to the cursewarped terror, and was one of the many ushered inside the safety of the temple walls.

In the aftermath, there were not enough common labor jobs for even those that were recently made homeless, let alone those who had spent a lifetime in poverty. When Moses approached him about going with the small group of refugees, he knew his bargaining chip. Thanks to Nan Kya's kindness, he was an ox. It was no surprise that his agreement came with the condition that Nan Kya be allowed to go as well.

Skills: Heavy lifting, jack-of-all-trades.

Resources: None.
DWARVES:
Axebreaker Clan
Bofbin Axebreaker (cartographer and scholar) and his wife Darea (2 elderly; 1m, 1f).
Helthal (soldier), Bofbin's son, and his wife and children (1 elderly, 2 adults, 1 child; 2m, 2f).
Orion (barkeep), Bofbin's grandson, and his wife (2 Adults; 2m, 2f).

Description: Bobfin has seen his children succumb to the wandering nature of his youth, and without much success. He has committed too many of his children and grandchildren to the earth long before their time, and except one son, a daughter, and his grandson, his few living decedents are scattered to the winds.

Full Description Found Here

Skills: Various.

Resources: Charts and maps, a small collection of books, axes, armor, etc...
Dirt Farmers
Darryl One-eye (retired mercenary) with his farmer father, his wife Deurana and baby daughter (1 elderly, 2 adults, 1 child; 2m, 2f).

Description: Darryl heard the dragon wings before his remaining eye spotted the fires springing up in its wake. He managed to get down into the cellar with his wife, his baby daughter and his doom-and-gloom father before the dragon reached them - along with a goat that was about to kid. The group huddled at the back of the cellar and waited for the beast to go away.

When they finally emerged again, there were 4 goats to lift out of the cellar and all the grain fields were burnt flat.

Skills: Farming and masonry.

Resources: 1 goat, 4 kids, and the miscellaneous contents of the cellar (everything else was burnt to the ground).
HALFLINGS:
Garfunkle's Gang
Garfunkel (prospector) and Ginger Rabbitsnare and Garf's tag-along "little" brother Benji (3 adults; 2m, 1f).

Description: What happens when you cross a stream loving halfling and a stream of good luck? A halfling gold prospector! Sifting gold from the very streams he lives on, the young gold-seeking halfling, his newlywed wife, and brother make a fine addition to our group!

Skills: Prospecting (Garfunkel), mining (Garf), and trapping (Ginger).

Resources: Pickax, snares, and a gold pan.
Janis and Sons
Janis (woodswoman), and her two twin sons (1 adult, 2 children; 2m, 1f).

Description: Janis and her late husband spent a lot of time in on the rivers and in the nearby forests, but when her husband died when her sons were infants, Janis settled down to care for them. Janis found a friend in Ariana the falconer, and taught her much of what she knows of the forests.

Skills: Wilderness survival (including fishing and trapping).

Resources: Fishing lures, twine, a hatchet, and skinning knife.
The Lucky Trio
Gillybloom (f), Taffle (m), Tansy (f child) (2 adults, 1 child; 1m, 2f).

Description: It was originally part dare, part coming of age celebration (apart from someone's tag-along kid sister determined to prove she was just as good as the rest of them). They were all going to climb the lighthouse and wave flags from the top. Gillybloom was leading the way when the beast broke out, hurling them all in different directions. Gillybloom and two others were lucky enough to land in the softish mud of the riverbank, but they haven't seen any of their friends since. These three, Gillybloom, Taffle and Tansy, now stick together as a personal reminder not to be so foolish again.

Before the [Old City] was attacked, Gillybloom was learning to scout ahead and around and Taffle is an apprentice sail & rope-maker. Tansy is still a generalist, used to pitching in with any task that needs help.

Skills: Scouting (Gillybloom) and rope/sail making (Taffle)

Resources: None.
DRAGONBORN:
Yorcha and Yishi
Yorcha (mercenary warrior), and Yishi, her 11 yr old squire with dreams of working magic(1 adult, 1 child; 2f)

Description: This was supposed to be an easy hire. Or so the recruiter had claimed. Just standing guard in a city where the threat had already left. No problems, just routine watches from battered walls.

That's why Yorcha had brought her young cousin Yishi as her squire, hoping that the youngling would gain enough experience in the trade that she would actually settle down and work instead of craning her neck after every mage that walked past.

If only she had known that it wasn't over...

Skills: Martial training.

Resources: Weapons and armor.
Double Dragons
Ghoros, first out of the egg, and Ghent, who followed (2 children; 2m).

Description: A rarity indeed, twin dragonborn are almost unheard of. Born of the same shell, Ghoros is the stronger of the brothers, while Ghent is more clever. The two are in constant competition, and had been in a footrace (Ghoros leading, of course) when the cursewarped dragon shook the world. They never found their father.

While Ghoros leans more towards the martial persuasion, leaning to the hand-and-a-half swords like their father, Ghent keeps his head in books, trying to wrap his intellect around the concepts of the arcane arts. However, without a teacher, it would be a surprise if Ghent ever mastered more than the most basic of cantrips.

The twins soon come of age, a time of power for dragonborn when inherent abilities manifest. Only the gods know the fates of the double dragons.

Skills: Arcane (Ghent) and martial training (Ghoros).

Resources: A book on arcane magic and a relic katana.
Deethra, new mother
Deethra, inactive dragonborn mercenary, and her unhatched egg, name undecided. (1 adult, 1 child; 1f, 1 unknown)

Description: Deethra had entered [Old City] a few weeks before solstice. After years of mercenary service, she needed to settle down for a bit. Gestation would soon be over, and she needed a place to rest, lay her egg, and raise her child. She spoke with the elders of the temple near the lighthouse, and they did what they could to accommodate her.

Her labor began on the eve of summer solstice. Feasts and festivities were well under way already, and it seemed to be a glorious day to birth her young. The labor was long, too be sure, but no matter for her; young born on solstice was an auspicious event. She was excited, both for herself and her child. That is, until it happened.

The egg began to crown at dusk on solstice, and as the sun set the ground began to shake. Everyone stopped what they were doing, and when the sun dropped beneath the horizon, a tremendous explosion shattered the lighthouse. All that could be seen was smoke and flame. And at that moment, the egg was laid, and Deethra collapsed from exhaustion.

When she awoke the following morning, many of the priests were unconscious, if not dead, though her egg seemed healthy. She was still exhausted from her delivery, but was compelled to investigate. It was then she met Moses, as the visibly shaken priest insisted that Deethra lay back down; Deethra was in no condition to do anything at the moment. The priest then presented Deethra’s egg to her, and was directed to care and watch over it.

As the days past, there was much discussion over the events of solistice; the curse-warped gold dragon laid waste to much of the city. Leaders promised that everything would be fine, and that rebuilding is already underway. But there were some who were unconvinced, and after listening to Moses, she had to agree. This place would not be a safe location to raise her child. She would join the refugees; it was time to leave.

Skills: Martial training.

Resources: None.
The Smiths
Vharas and Senzer (2 adults, 2m).

Description: By all that is just and true in Dragonborn society, Vharas should have grown up to be an incredible warrior. However, strong blood and great apprenticeships did not overcome his pacifism. After he was formally recognized as an adult, he took the rare step of reapprenticing himself to Senzer, an older dragonborn mercenery who had retired from campaigning and worked as a weapon and armorsmith.

Senzer, not being one for celebrations, was working with Vharas in his shop when the Golden Death struck. Half of the building collapsed, pinning Senzer's left arm to the burning forge-coals. Vharas freed himself from the rubble quickly, and struck off Senzer's arm with a recently forged axe to free his master from his torment and escape the spreading fire.

Senzer has been a shell of his former self since the attack, and with the shop destroyed, there has been little to occupy his time. Vharas heard about this foolish band of refugees, and decided to drag Senzer on one last, and Vharas' first, campaign, in order to rekindle his spirits.

Skills: Blacksmithing, weapon and armor smithing, and martial training.

Resources: Smithing tools, iron ore, and a variety of weaponry and other metal implements.
ELVES:
Twin Sisters Pomi and Loti
Sisters Pomi and Loti, wanderers who had most recently been florists in [Old City] (2 adults; 2f).

Description: Pomi and Loti grew up in an elven community built around a small hillock in the woods. Born as twins they were inseparable, often getting into trouble for finding themselves in places they adults feared they were to young to visit. In truth this was as much due to egging each other on as much as their natural curiosity. As they grew their wanders took them farther and farther afield, so it was no surprise when they announced they had decided to see the world beyond their forests. Traveling mostly by foot on the few roads available for over five years they were lucky to pass by most of their potential obstacles, but eventually news of their elder sister's declining health directed their travels to [old city]. Upon arriving in [old city] they found their sister had passed on and a niece, Mililani (half-elf), in need of a family so they agreed to take a short break. Two years later they had their florists business thriving but were starting to feel the need to wander again when the dragon broke free...

Skills: Various.

Resources: Gardening tools and exotic seeds.
Marlola
Marlola and her infant, half-dragon son, Acharis (draconic, meaning emerald hope) or "Chris" (adult 1, child 1; 1f, 1m).

Description: With the sun on her face and the smell of the forest enveloping her, Marlola realized she was free. She wondered the forest, praying to find her village, but no stream or tree ever looked familiar. She survived as best she could and gathered what food she found when the time for her son's birth approached.

When the refugees found her by following the cries of her child, they found her half starved and near death. The baby boy was well nurtured and healthy, for Marlola gave the boy all she could. They took her in and cared for her. The secret of the boy's father remains hidden away in the her nightmares, while she remains fearful of what others may think of him if they knew the truth.
Full Description Found Here

Skills: None.

Resources: None.
HALF-ELVES:
Mililani
Mililani the young niece of Pomi and Loti, and barwench from the Dragon's Berth (1 adult; 1f).

Description: Mililani is a young half-elf (16 years old) living with aunts Pomi and Loti while working at the bar her mother worked in, the Dragon's Berth. Though her father is not publicly known Mililani has lived a life of love and joy, surrounded by the friendly patrons of the bar. Forced to live alone when her mother died three years ago, she was eventually reunited with her elven heritage when her aunts arrived a year later. Though independent and somewhat brash, her ready smile and lively wit has allowed Mililani to avoid most of the troubles that could be expected of a young girl in a large city.
Full Description Found Here

Skills: Diplomacy.

Resources: None.
Jeffers
Jeffers, retired guard, co-owner of the Dragon's Berth (1 adult; 1m).

Description: During his last patrol as city guard, a group of burglars had shattered his right leg, and he had been forced to retire from service. Taking what savings he had, Jeffers found common cause at the Dragon’s Berth. Owned by Bobfin’s grandson, Boffin (?), the bar had become seedy and run down, typically losing money to drinks unpaid. Now as co-owner and cook/part-time bouncer of the Dragon's Berth, he has helped turn it into a well-established tavern and inn that typically caters to both city-folk and wayward travelers. On occasion, his right leg would courses with pain, and it always foretelling of a bad day to come. He has a gruff, somewhat reserved demeanor, but is always honest and helpful, and loves to recount his days as a guard.

Skills: Martial training.

Resources: His old weapon (the armor belonged to the city).
ELADRIN:
Aust's Entourage
Aust Amakiir (lorekeeper), his "nephew" Tier (escort), and Sylvia (2 adult, 1 venerable; 2m, 1f).

Description: Aust Amakiir lives only half in the world. As his body passes into the ether his soul seems to shine through it like a light. He is not long for the world, which may explain why he seemed as serene as ever while the dragon streaked like a bright golden meteor above the darkened streets of the city.

Amakiir [meaning: beautiful silence of dusk] fancies himself a loremaster, which offers the other explanation as to why he was so calm. He knew. Though it is only speculation, it would explain his timely arrival in the city, the countless hours in the library, and how some books just happened to be in his possession rather than at the library when it burned to the ground.

He arrived in town with two young eladrin, Tier, who he introduced as a nephew, and Sylvia his nephew's bride. Tier has a quick wit, and a quick blade, and never strays far from the company of his uncle. Tier seems to be more of guard and escort than young nephew, though Sylvia seems to genuinely be espoused to Tier.

Skills: Various.

Resources: Carriage with two good horses, a collection of books saved from the [Old City] library along with many of his own scripts and a light riding horse with gear.
Neya Family
Ovien Neya a noble eladrin with a swashbuckler style, his wife [b]Sooraya[b] (silversmith) and Layla, their tomboyish daughter who is soon to be apprenticed (2 adult, 1 child; 1m, 2f).

Description: Ovien desperately wants to re-establish his family's name. However, rather then acting as an arrogante noble he has decided to hide his background and try to start anew. He knows that others may distrust his noble heritage but he hopes to directly help the people rather then become some overbearing tyrant.

Ovien is tall, with blond hair and fair skin. Purple eyes. Dresses in subdued swashbuckler-esque dress. He has some skill at dueling and training horses but his primary skill lies in diplomacy.

Sooraya is a good hand at silversmithing since she originally came from a poor noble line that had to work hard for a living. She is a moderately attractive woman who emphasizes the strange fey-like qualities of the Eladrin. She walks with a strange grace. Her hair is long and shimmers like silver. Her eyes are as bright as emeralds. She dresses in blue and gold silk gowns still wearing the colors of the Neya family.

Layla is of an eladrin age equivalent to a fourteen year old human. Before the disaster in [Old City], she had been learning various etiquettes involved with being a noble. Now, Sooraya has been trying to keep up those lessons while emphasizing the need to learn a good trade. Sooraya is looking to apprentice her daughter so that she can learn to be her own person. The decision on what trade to learn is up to Layla.

Layla is lithe, quick eladrin with curly blonde hair. She has her father's purple eyes. Layla is the only member of the family to run around in what her parents call 'undignified' dress. She wears leather pants, linen shirts and likes to rough-house with the local children. Her friendly personality has made her several friends.

Full Description Found Here

Skills: Diplomacy (all) and silversmithing (Sooraya).

Resources: A treasure chest with the family fortune, a few well bred horses, to include Ovien's prizewinning stud and mare.
The Orphaned Child
Silaqui (1 child, 1f)

Description: Silaqui had moved to [Old City] with her parents several years ago, while she was still very young. In the aftermath of the first attack, she found herself alone; both parents were slain, and she had no family to care for her. Now a youth, and with noone else to turn to, she joins Nan Kya with the refugees.

Skills: None.

Resources: None.
TIEFLING:
Moses
Moses, the tiefling priestess (1 adult; 1f).

Skills: Diplomacy, healing, divine abilities and religious knowledge.

Resources: None (due to an aesthetic lifestyle).


And some images I have been working on:
It may be time for another front page update however.
Ok, I see, yeah, the front page wasn't updated. Ok, my bad, disregard that last post.
Let's put the giant issue to a vote. It will help us narrow down what to use as a 'foe' for the area and let us move on.

I propose a vote that the river does not cause unnaturally large vegetation, animals, insects, etc and that it does not contain any other magical effects.
Hmm...,I like the idea of the giant eagles. However, the notion of the spring causing gigantism is a little too exotic for my tastes.

On the subject of the eagles: perhaps they are migratory creatures that show up during the warmer months.

The massive birds could resemble Harpy Eagles (just to make them stand out a bit) and might be possessed of greater than normal intelligence. Who knows? They could be capable of speech and may have worked out some sort of sibiotic relationship with the refugees. Maybe the villagers keep the location of the eagles' nest a secret and the eagles occasionally provide deer or other large game animals when the villagers are in need.

Take care, friends.
Giant Eagles: Ok

Giant Intelligent Eagles: Maybe, I assume that giant eagles would be relatively intelligent, might buy that they have the reasoning skills of a man.

Giant Intelligent Talking Eagles: No. This is the same problem as the giant spring, too exotic, too crowded.