[GH] Any 4e Greyhawk material?

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So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?

Divinity feats?

Rituals?

Monsters?

I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.
Whaaa...?

anyone?

Hmm I guess Greyhawk is truly dead.

Time to get working on its ressurection.
Aside from the fact that 4e has only just come out, I would suggest that a high proportion of Greyhawk fans are like myself planning to stick with 3.5 or an earlier edition.
Aside from the fact that 4e has only just come out, I would suggest that a high proportion of Greyhawk fans are like myself planning to stick with 3.5 or an earlier edition.

Hmm...,ok I will ask this again in a months time.
;)
So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?

Divinity feats?

Rituals?

Monsters?

I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.

I have not done anything yet, but I'll probably take the easy way out and just rename some of the stuff out of the phb. I'm hoping that living greyhawk will continue with 4e, so we get the gods updated. I have been playing in greyhawk since the early 80's and have no plans to change now.
I have not done anything yet, but I'll probably take the easy way out and just rename some of the stuff out of the phb. I'm hoping that living greyhawk will continue with 4e, so we get the gods updated. I have been playing in greyhawk since the early 80's and have no plans to change now.

IIRC LG dies with 3.5, it will not be upgraded to 4e.
From the 4e PHB Page 11

[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]

It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.

I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.
From the 4e PHB Page 11

[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]

It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.

I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.

Glaring error, mostly. let's not fall to that territory.
From the 4e PHB Page 11

[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]

either this was a HUGE error, or greyhawk was not considered a "campaign setting" but more of just a premade world.

still no love from WOTC for greyhawk fans. I doubt we will see errata on this either.
It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.

Phooey. I've still got maps, gazetteers, adventures, notes...

I was hoping the Canonfire 4e forum would be useful, but it's, so far anyway, filled with people whingeing that "4e destroyed Greyhawk, 4e destroyed D&D," on and on. (For what it's worth, I think 4e feels much more like 'classic' D&D than 3e ever did.)

So, anyone got a good suggestion of where we can go to work? (I'd rather not here -- sorry WotC, but having all of us old-worlders jammed in here together, it's a bit crowded...) Maybe we should just hop over to Canonfire and shove the naysayers off the 4e board...
Hey, the Barrier Peaks are mentioned twice in the Worldwide Gameday adventure Into the Shadowhaunt. The Shadowhaunt Mausoleum sits "in the shade of the Barrier Peaks..." And the white dragon raids caravans as they pass through Barrier Peaks.

So, maybe someone is thinking about Greyhawk in 4th Edition...

-------- Don (Greyson) --------

Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S.-American

Whaaa...?

anyone?

Hmm I guess Greyhawk is truly dead.

Time to get working on its ressurection.

Phooey. I've still got maps, gazetteers, adventures, notes...

I was hoping the Canonfire 4e forum would be useful, but it's, so far anyway, filled with people whingeing that "4e destroyed Greyhawk, 4e destroyed D&D," on and on. (For what it's worth, I think 4e feels much more like 'classic' D&D than 3e ever did.)

So, anyone got a good suggestion of where we can go to work? (I'd rather not here -- sorry WotC, but having all of us old-worlders jammed in here together, it's a bit crowded...) Maybe we should just hop over to Canonfire and shove the naysayers off the 4e board...

As one website I just now stumbled across put it:
At first I thought Fourth Edition was just 3.5 dumbed down, but now I realize, Fourth Edition is 1st Edition AD&D ON STEROIDS

After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!

Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)

And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!
The sycophants and EULA quoters aren't worth our time. 4E =/= Essentials; Essentials =/= 4E. To WotC/DDI: GO "SOON" YOURSELVES. Internet Rule #41. Needs moar Desu. No exceptions.
Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!




We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).

We have had the world in our own hands to make or break as we saw fit. I'm glad there are those of us who want to continue to make it.

Thanks everyone!
Great gaming
Be well in all things,
Rave
Answers never come to those who refuse to face the fact that there are questions. -R. Ryder
We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).

Maybe it hasn't needed them, but the World of Greyhawk has had published fiction ("Expedition Into the Black Reservoir", "Gnome Cache" appeared before other TSR settings'), plenty of high-level characters, SF elements (indeed, some of its spirit is drawn from early-20th-century fiction from before fantasy and SF were seen as distinct), and planar wandering (EX1-2, Q1, S4's pocket planes, the quasi-deities, the Gord novels, Rob Kuntz's City of Brass, and so on) from its beginning.
-Wiping the tears away-


As one website I just now stumbled across put it:


After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!

Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)

And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!

So have you guys come up with greyhawk conversions for 4e?

Divinity feats?

Rituals?

Monsters?

I am working on my own and wanted to take a look at other people have done.

Not come up with any of the above yet but despite my skepticism prior to release, I intend to use 4E in Greyhawk. Currently am working on converting Red Hand of Doom to be set in western Sterich in 579CY and to cover the whole of the Heroic Tier. Intend to follow this with conversions of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits for Paragon at least. Not got a campaign conclusion yet but working on it.
Well, I've converted and Dmd the Champions Belt (Age of Worms) for 4e (some notes are over on Canonfire). A tournament was a good way to playtest our 4e builds of our 3e characters but it is actually harder than I thought to convert the monsters.

I split the first round into 3 separate fights and this was actually the most fun part. What we found was that without a controller, the elves were really hard to pin down and bloodied one of the pcs. I think some of the villains' stats (or at least their attack rolls) need to be modified to remain consistent threats to the pcs as the arcane archer (ranger & warlock powers) was far easier to take down despite being higher level. The other groups were much easier to defeat because they had to get into melee to shine. My recommendation would probably be to increase the levels of the npcs by one or just increase their attack rolls by one or two to enhance the threat a bit.

The sons of Kyuss were ok at level 5 as long as they have a reasonable chance of hitting with one or two worms. The pcs need to inflict radiant damage before the worms burrow under the skin to destroy them. With limited ways to cure disease in combat, they become a little scarier once they're under your skin (ongoing necrotic damage is good, with nasty effects once pc becomes bloodied).

The elite dwarves I converted using the barbarian playtest and they were quite fun but didn't deal as much in the way of damage as I had hoped. I think adding a third elite dwarf, possibly a controller, would make the fight more interesting if the dwarf could slow down the pcs and give the lads a chance to gang up.

Madtooth the Hungry was a bit dull. He is so stupid that I didn't feel I could justify playing him too tactically and this made the fight a bit dull as his damage was a bit too low. It did end up being a slugfest but they cleverly outfoxed his bite using a Ring of Blink and forced movement.

Fighting the Apostle of Kyuss was the most fun but focusing on Auric minimised the risks for the pcs. You need to spend no more than 2 rounds before swallowing him so you can focus on the pcs. I'd recommend using dramatic licence to keep the npcs out of the fight there.

The only Greyhawk specific thing I've done so far is Olidammara's Laughing Rogue - a Divinity Fat akin to the Bard Hideous Laughter Power but with no damage and confined to the end of the next round.

Next we're hunting down Lareth and then off to the Keep of Adlerweg for a holiday. Fun!
either this was a HUGE error, or greyhawk was not considered a "campaign setting" but more of just a premade world.

still no love from WOTC for greyhawk fans. I doubt we will see errata on this either.

I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't. It was treated as the core setting in those days.
I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't.

Yes it was. I can see my boxed World of Greyhawk fantasy game setting and my boxed From the Ashes on the shelf as I type this.
Why WotC dropped Greyhawk never made any sense to me. As pointed out, it has had several boxed sets published and numerous modules.

http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/modules.html

Worse, a lot of the lore that originated in Greyhak was passed to other worlds with no mention. Drizzt would be nothing without Lloth and Lloth came from Greyhawk! And, that is only the tip of the iceberg.

It's unfortunate a decision was made to not continue Greyhawk.
As one website I just now stumbled across put it:


After all , who're we to let the Misbegotten Realms and EberWrong edge us out of D&D mainstream???
We Greyhawkers CREATED the idea of a published campaign World!

Where were Drow first allowed as Player Characters?
Greyhawk! (Unearthed Arcana, 1st ed AD&D)
Which campaign world FIRST introduced the Monk, the Bard, the Paladin, the Barbarian, the Half-Orc, and Half-Ogres?
Greyhawk! (1st ed AD&D PHB, Unearthed Arcana, & Dragon Magazine #29 & 73)
Which game world first introduced Lovecraftian elements such as The Elder Elemental God and Tharizdun?
Greyhawk!
Which World was the first to feature an adventure module which crossed a sci-fi setting there?
Greyhawk! (Expedition To The Barrier Peaks, and thank you, Greyson for reminding me)

And Which world's fans are not going to let the screw up of marketing (or WHOEVER did that sidebar, which is on page 7 of my 4E PHB-1 book, incidentally) shuffle us off into obscurity?
GREYHAWK, THAT'S WHO!!!

Sir, you are an inspiration for us all.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

(snip) (snip)
We, the fans of Greyhawk, have not needed novels to support our world. Neither have we needed tons of UberNPCs (just makes having actual PCs pointless IMHO), Machina (When I want sci-fi, I play Gamma World!), planejumping (can be fun, but as a setting? Not for me.), or any of the fluff that has been dolled out over the course of 20 years (note: only 20 compared to about 30 for the original setting).

We have had the world in our own hands to make or break as we saw fit. I'm glad there are those of us who want to continue to make it.

Thanks everyone!
Great gaming
Be well in all things,
Rave

-Wiping the tears away-

Sir, you are an inspiration for us all.

Thanks.
It's just that I started gaming back in the EARLY 1980's, just a year after the WoG boxed set first came out, and ever since then, Greyhawk has been "home" to me, far more so than Mystara (where I actually started, playing out of the old blue Expert Set box) or the Forgotten Realms.

Don't get me wrong, I actually bear no ill will towards the Realms or Eberron, having had quite a bit of fun playing there, too, over the years, but it irks me a bit to see folks forget just where most of those "innovations" actually started out at, in the rush to look at the "new and shiny".

Like I said, for me, Greyhawk is just plain home.
The sycophants and EULA quoters aren't worth our time. 4E =/= Essentials; Essentials =/= 4E. To WotC/DDI: GO "SOON" YOURSELVES. Internet Rule #41. Needs moar Desu. No exceptions.
I would like a reprint of the old boxed Greyhwak set with the two big maps, with stats for 4E.
But I can do without the Hollywood stuff and cataclysms around every corner as happened in the FR. A more rational historical development would be more to my liking.

Vatras

 

Not exactly Greyhawk, but Blackmoor will be converted to 4e and have quite a few 4E books published for it later this year by Code Monkey Publishing. Should be fairly easy to use with the corresponding part of Blackmoor....

Havard
I think they just forgot the word "boxed". FR and DragonLance were sold as a pre-made packaged world in a box Greyhawk wasn't. It was treated as the core setting in those days.

Greyhawk was sold in a box too. In 1983, the World of Greyhawk boxed set was published. I bought my copy in 1990 or thereabouts at Waldenbooks, and it's sitting on my shelf right now. It was very much a pre-made, packaged world in a box. The Forgotten Realms boxed set didn't come out until four years later.

The difference between a campaign setting and a "pre-made world" is nonexistent anyway; they're the same thing - that's what a campaign setting is. There's no real difference in the way that Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms campaign settings were presented; both contained gazetteers of the countries, descriptions of different races, and accompanying adventures and novels.
From the 4e PHB Page 11

[INDENT]Throughout the 1980s, the game experienced remarkable
growth. Novels, a cartoon series, computer games, and the
first campaign settings (FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE)
were released[/INDENT]

It seems Greyhawk cannnot be discontinued or abandoned - because now it never existed.

I'm a bit ****** at the abandonment myself - Greyhawk has always seemed a good setting for DnD games, especially for low level parties.

Personally, I suspect that this is not intended to be a deliberate sign that Greyhawk has been abandoned, nor is it an absent-minded slip up. I suspect that when this part of the PHB was written, there were not yet any firm plans to make Greyhawk a 4E setting and there still may not be.

FR was confirmed as the first setting and DL has ongoing novel coverage but GH at the moment has not confirmed future products. Listing it in the intro could have raised expectations among the fan base (ie. us) that may not be realised. Equally, new players may have been confused by a reference to a setting that for all intents and purposes does not exist at present in 4E.

Personally, I have not given up hope that we will see 4E GH in 2010 or 2011 but if not, I've got material that I can convert to last me through at least half a dozen campaigns. As long as we keep the setting alive from previous published material and fan-created material, it will never die.
Alot of Points of Light and PHB stuff fits in with Greyhawk with little problems

Elsir Vale from the Scales of War - Dungeon magazine adventure path can be inserted into Ahlissa. Change the town names and off you go.

Nentir Vale from the DMG could fit into Perrenland or Ket, or Duchy of Tehn if you are running a Pre War campaign.

Avandra = Halfing name for Fharlaghn.
Bane = Dwarven name for Hextor.
Erathis = Dwarven name for St Cuthbert.
Ioun = Elven name for Boccob.
Melora = Elven name for Beory.
Raven Queen = Halfling name for Istus.
Sehanine = Halfling name for Ehlonnah.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

Isn't the 'official' location in the vale is Sterich from the adventure featuring the Azure Prince? The map itself needs a small amount of tweaking and the major cities need to be scaled down but it's otherwise a good fit. You can always check out Anna's maps (link on Canonfire). She hasn't got as far as Sterich yet but it is her intention to convert the locations used as part of the LG campaign in her map. The LG maps from Dungeon have quite a lot of spare settlements listed and very little 'official' background. Just remember that Sterich is an Earldom so npcs should be downgraded to barons, viscounts, baronets, and lordlings.

I agree with some of your deity conversions but Ioun and Sehanine exist in their own right in Greyhawk. In some ways I like the idea of there being no 'racial' deities because it makes more sense to have different 'aspects' of a god rather than hundreds of deities for every race and far too much human love. Since the Raven Queen officially killed Nerull (!) I think we're going to have to persuade some fans to write him up.

Raven Queen exhibits some traits of both Istus and Wee Jas but isn't really a good fit for either. I think Wee Jas (being a death goddess) is a closer fit and she is also the lover of Kord. I really dislike the way Vecna has been catapaulted into deity mega-stardom while other major deities like Nerull has been killed off. Some tradtional deities are also cropping up as exarchs. Maglubyet has turned up as a level 30 solo Exarch of Bane. It will take a lot of time, but we might even get some articles on Greyhawk specific deities in Dragon as time goes on.
I think i'll go with Istus being the Raven Queen, and Wee Jas works for her.

As for Nerull being killed off, well alot of time has past, you can always have Nerull injured and returns but weaker, greater to intermediate status etc

With Vecna I can't find a reference to the power level of the standard gods from the PHB, so some may be greater gods like Pelor while others like Vecna may be only lesser gods or demi gods.

I can't justify Vecna or Torog being more than lesser gods, they just would not have that many followers or widespread influence.

Greyhawk is great and I will continue to run games in it regardless whether WOTC support it or not.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

I've notice each edition of D&D has it own world they focus on. In 1st edition it was Greyhawk. In Second edition is was forgotten Realms. In 3rd they have eberron. 4th edition who knows what it will be. Sure each edition except 1st had other worlds but there was always on world they supported more. Now I have quite few books for 3rd edition Forgotten Realms but it always seemed there was more for Eberron. That could be just my perception seeing about small stack of FR books for 3rd edition compared to my 2nd edition books then seeing whole display case of Eberron books in the gaming store. Could be they were more even but that's how it seemed to me. A lot of my old greyhawk stuff has disappeard over the years. I still have the core but a lot of adventures have gone missing. Probably in some box covered with dusk in storage I'm guessing.

So I wonder which setting 4th edition will favor most?
With Vecna I can't find a reference to the power level of the standard gods from the PHB, so some may be greater gods like Pelor while others like Vecna may be only lesser gods or demi gods.

I can't justify Vecna or Torog being more than lesser gods, they just would not have that many followers or widespread influence.

Some gods, particularly Lolth and Vecna gained massive power boosts as time went on. Lolth because she was upgraded from demon lord to full deity in Forgotten Realms and Vecna because his quest for power was detailed in a series of modules.

It will be quite easy to keep Lolth as a demon in 4e since the gods and demon lords are build in an identical fashion. As demon lords go Lolth was probably roughly equal in power to Yeenoghu so it shouldn't be too hard to tweak her if she needs tweaking at all.

I think that if you are faithful to the Greyhawk setting and haven't run the Vecna modules then Vecna should remain a demi-god whose principle reputation is as an infamous lich of legend, worshipped only by a handful of underground cultists.

Demi-gods tend to be statted as elite low-to mid-epic level monsters. I had a look at Vecna's aspect, which is probably closer in power to his demi-god status but it looks so boring. I think I'd be inclined to give him some magical spells or magical items more suitable for one of the most powerful liches of all time, particularly recognisable utility spells while possibly putting some spell-like overlay onto his more basic blasting powers just to make them more interesting.
Vecna was statted up in Open Graves as a 35 Solo - which is on par with a lesser god. They have stated the greater gods won't get statted, only 35th or so will, as that is a top opponent for 30th level characters.

On the god's list, I was using Melora as Ehlonna. I like Erathis as Cuthbert - that fits nicely. I too was having trouble with the Raven Queen. I think I am going to use Wee Jas, but a particular aspect of her - the LN branch of her church knows her as that, and ignores the "evil" side of here.

I made Ioun Istus in my Scales of War conversion - Ioun exists in GH, but is too weak for the role 4E seems to give her. Boccob is another good choice, but as the Uncaring one, he doesn't seem to fit the personality.

ROB
First time I read the raven Queen entry in PHB1 i said to myself "neat, they managed to sneak wee jas into the game" Thats how I see it any ways.
Some gods, particularly Lolth and Vecna gained massive power boosts as time went on. Lolth because she was upgraded from demon lord to full deity in Forgotten Realms

No, she was noted as having the powers of a lesser deity way back in Deities & Demigods (1980) - as all demon lords, slaad lords, Princes of Elemental Evil and so on were.

In Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits (also published in 1980), we have the line: "As a lesser goddess, Lolth has certain attributes common to all divine beings." (page 32) It's a myth that she somehow wasn't always portrayed as a true goddess as well as a queen of demons. It does note that the DM may optionally choose not to include these powers if it makes her too tough an opponent.

It's just that gods in general got massive power boosts in 2nd edition and 3rd edition, so only then did we get a distinction between demon lords and deities so that some demon lords (like Graz'zt and Pazrael in Iuz the Evil and Planes of Chaos, and all the fiendish lords in Book of Vile Darkness and subsequent books) would still be within the power of player characters to fight.
Partially true, but a lesser goddess of the drow with 66hp upgraded to an intermediate goddess with strong ties to the elven pantheon and, how many was it in the end, over 1,000hp? That counts as a power increase to me!

The new rules seem to be headed more towards 1e power levels but some of the gods, like Vecna seem a bit dull and limited as a result. As a god he seems to have less interesting abilities than his Hand and Eye. It seems quite tricky to retain the flavour of the old deities within the new mechanics. Lolth will probably be easier to mimic than most.
It's a power increase, but it's on par with the power increase all lesser deities got. Compare Hextor's 1e stats with his 3e stats, for example. Since the "intermediate" rank didn't exist in 1e, many lesser deities got "promoted" to account for it (Fharlanghn, Heironeous, Hextor, etc. among them).
Raven Queen exhibits some traits of both Istus and Wee Jas but isn't really a good fit for either.

The Raven Queen is very likely an aspect of Wee Jas.

From 4e MotP:
"hers is a mighty stronghold, cut from black ice that sparkles with new snow"

from 3e MotP:
"Ocanthus, a sheet of infinite, magically charged black ice."
"Wee Jas, the Witch Goddess of Death and Magic, keeps her realm on Ocanthus. Built on the surface of the boundary ice is a crystalline castle"
I am all for 4e Greyhawk. I have my old stuff. Maybe I'll snuffle through it and throw some things together for PEACHes.
Thats what I am doing also.
I'm not sure if I plan to start with the Crystalmists (the site of the death of my first ever PC) or the Valley of the Mage.
There was a place on the map that I never really had much info on. That was "The Horned Society." I suppose if Tieflings were from there, it would explain the name. *heh*

What was the canonical story about that place?
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