Eilistraee dead in FR 4e???

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Anyone know where I can find information on Eilistraee in 4e Forgotten Realms. Thanks...
Dead.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/6.jpg)

Dead, together with the whole drow pantheon except Lolth and Slimer. The only way to make Eilistraee work again is either houseruling new stuff for her, or saying that she's an exarch of Corellon and can use his feats etc.
Technically she died in 3rd-Edition Personally I like to think that she only lost her deity status, living on as an archfey in the Feywild.
Brian R. James Freelance Game Designer
Funny idea, that would enable warlock priests. I thought about making vestige pact warlocks (dead power). But in the end I like her best as a living goddess. I'm no fan of the conversion of gods to primordials and primal spirits, the main purpose of gods isn't that they make you cast spells but that you have a place where your soul goes, otherwise you're stuck in a wall in the fugue plane.
Technically she died in 3rd-Edition Personally I like to think that she only lost her deity status, living on as an archfey in the Feywild.

Thankyou for providing me a nice neat way to also save Sehanine. Hanali Celanil and Aerdrie Faeyna, should I ever run the Realms. Facing either battle and/or a threat to their worshippers they slipped into the shadows and are already planning their return! ;)

Cheers!

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

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I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
All, thanks for the info. Thought that was the case since I did not see anything in print about her!

Cheers.
Technically she died in 3rd-Edition Personally I like to think that she only lost her deity status, living on as an archfey in the Feywild.

You are my hero, Brian. I don't know why I never thought of that...

I honestly never got the sense of "finality" from her death scenes anyway...just seemed too strange, especially since the weapon that killed her was one of her own making.
Technically she died in 3rd-Edition Personally I like to think that she only lost her deity status, living on as an archfey in the Feywild.

Thats a great idea.
Praise Shar!


Ignore the official lore...in a world based on a game that is basically a game of "let's pretend", there is absolutely no reason to follow someone else's imagination... unless you lack your own. ;)

As far as I'm concerned, Lady Penitent was nothing more then a pack of lies - crappy propaganda released by the church of Lolth to convnce all the 'wayward' drow to come back to her.
While I think making them archfey, exarchs and even nature spirits is a good way to save most of the Seldarine into 4e, the specific way in which Eilistraee was dealt with in 3.5 just is too final to make her anything but dead.
I honestly disagree. It didn't strike me as all that final. She died, yes...that happened, but keep in mind that the Crescent Blade was supposed to destroy the soul of something decapitated by it. And yet...Cavatina went to the fugue plain when she died. So my guess is that the crescent blade, at least in a few instances, isn't as final as one might think. And honestly, gods have died and come back before, and the ending of the book could be interpreted many ways...death with a supposed "god-killing" sword wasn't enough to stop Bane, after all.
I actually don't even think that the crescent blade has power over deities at all. It's just a shiny toy. She died because she chose to tie her fate to the divine sava game and that's what killed her, just like Selvetarm and Kiaranshalee. Puny mortals with a puny blade or a funny spell can't do such harm to divine beings. Selvetarm was also still standind behind Lolth after receiving his "killing" blow from Cavatina and only died after being removed from the board.

My point is that, unlike other seldarine who just have not been mentioned yet in 4e, Eilistraee had a deathscene at the end of 3.5
Well, each can have their own interpretation, and that's perfectly fine. In my rendition of the Realms, she'll live on, but I know that in some versions she won't. That's okay ^_^
They just wanted to simplify the Drow going into 4e so they killed off a lot of people/cities/gods. Elistraee was killed, and her good drow followers were absolved of the original curse of the drow. Their skin went from shiny ebony to a more human-like dark brown/black, there hair was no longer white, and they just became regular elves (technically eladrin, I suppose).

There, now it's just Lolth, the Slimester, and a more concentrated population of evil drow. Back to basics.
Technically she died in 3rd-Edition Personally I like to think that she only lost her deity status, living on as an archfey in the Feywild.

make it so- Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
All, thanks for the info. Thought that was the case since I did not see anything in print about her!

Cheers.

Just in case, the story of her decline and the loss of The Promenade is told in the Lady Penitent novel series by Lisa Smedman. The novels as such are fine, the story which is told (and how) ain't. While we are at it, Selvetarm, Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee all bit the bullet too, thus smoothing the drow pantheon to the simplistic version as described in the late 3,5E's Core Drow of the Underdark. As has been said, much like the end of Mask, her death was pretty special and thus final, so by default it would be hard to retcon her back into Realmspace going by the current rules et al. Going by the outcry that her decline caused, her "death as a deity" might still not be as final as some would hope. Then again, WotC turned the Realms and D&D upside down with 4E and I doubt that they'll harken the outcry this caused.
My point is that, unlike other seldarine who just have not been mentioned yet in 4e, Eilistraee had a deathscene at the end of 3.5

Right.

We also saw both Mystra and Bane die during the ToT... whats your point? ;)

Moander's come back multiple times, and other gods have 'come and gone' many times, including recently Waukeen, who was missing for quite awhile, along with Aumanator who has re-emerged in 4e.

Even Myrkul yet lives, stuck in that crown...

Death for gods does not mean the same thing as it does for mortals (and not even for mortals, in a D&D setting)... its just a 'temporary setback' in most cases.
did you see a body??

all I saw was feign death, then poof dear old daddy appeared
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
i really want to find the guy/dev who made the final call on this...

dev 1 "okay we are keeping lolth and taking everything in the realms back to basics, what other deity whould we keep alive? Selvetarm, Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee have to go, they outshadow lolth in the 'coolness' aspect. "

dev 2 "that leaves Eilistraee, should we keep her?"

dev 3 " no wai! drow should be eevilz k thx bai!!!11lolzz" drizzit should be the only good drowz in fiction, otherwise hes not unique and leetz hax skillzzz ftw"

dev 2 "thats right he won't be the only one, we got two ways to do this then, we can do this subtle and maybe salvage the fans who-"

dev 3 "noobz! we nuke the place hahahahszlolz! we makee the whole place explode. no! a plague we make everyone sick!... -wait both we do both.! ka-bboom! lets!!! that way we make a clean slate to put in dranie- erm i mean dragon born. "

dev 4 " uh guys i don't think this is the - "

dev 1, pointing at 4 " your fired. pack your crap and get outta here"

dev 2 "so, um, is Eilistraee is dead?"

dev 1 "well keep slimer, i like his name. and we will never mention 'her' name again!"

yeah lets find dev 3
Funny stuff - I was going to post something along those lines myself way back when, but #4 was "The Janitor" who was emptying a waste can and the only voice of reason in the room. :D

Then I thought about making the 'script' into a video - my kid has this really cool mask of Davy Jones from PotC (tentacles and all!) that I was going to use for Bruce Cordell, and just have him froth and scream "Cthulhu!" anytime anyone asked him a question.

I had other concepts (and masks) for the rest, but then I decided it was way too much work for a joke... but it lives on in my imagination, and still gives me a chuckle every now and then (especially whenever I see that tentacled mask).
Wow, ILL never see Davy Jones The same way again
Then I thought about making the 'script' into a video - my kid has this really cool mask of Davy Jones from PotC (tentacles and all!) that I was going to use for Bruce Cordell, and just have him froth and scream "Cthulhu!" anytime anyone asked him a question.

Nice idea, MT. I played Call of Cthulu for the first time last week. An interesting system. Seems to be about 90% investigating so you have an in-game reason for the action you already know you need to take... and then 10% "Ahhhh! It's a monster"... Player Death... Player Death.... Player Death... Player Insane.... Player Death. It has to be the first game that I considered fainting through terror and taking almost no part in the final encounter a lucky occurance.

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
Wow, ILL never see Davy Jones The same way again

was going to make a monkees reference, but it was lame =]
Funny stuff - I was going to post something along those lines myself way back when, but #4 was "The Janitor" who was emptying a waste can and the only voice of reason in the room. :D

Then I thought about making the 'script' into a video - my kid has this really cool mask of Davy Jones from PotC (tentacles and all!) that I was going to use for Bruce Cordell, and just have him froth and scream "Cthulhu!" anytime anyone asked him a question.

I had other concepts (and masks) for the rest, but then I decided it was way too much work for a joke... but it lives on in my imagination, and still gives me a chuckle every now and then (especially whenever I see that tentacled mask).

LMAO i want to do somthing like that, maybe edit many video conference vids of people in this post, posing as various devs and personalities of the game in many masks or cuts from cartoons. got an idea for dev 3, who shall remain unnamed, a pic of a bald nekked gnome from wow dancing.
Lolth beat the crap out of her!! :D
-Eilistraee wasn't killed with "a stick", lucky for her.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
-Eilistraee wasn't killed with "a stick", lucky for her.

no, she just got spanked.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Eilistrae was my favorite goddess in the Realms, most of the clerics I played were clerics of Eilistrae, but seriously, her stunt possessing Qilué was so stupid and useless that I almost cheered when she got killed.
I hate how authors portray gods in the Forgotten Realms. They're all supposed to be tremendously intelligent, but they act so dumb it makes me want to cry.
Eilistrae was my favorite goddess in the Realms, most of the clerics I played were clerics of Eilistrae, but seriously, her stunt possessing Qilué was so stupid and useless that I almost cheered when she got killed.
I hate how authors portray gods in the Forgotten Realms. They're all supposed to be tremendously intelligent, but they act so dumb it makes me want to cry.

i have a theory that this is something to do with an author deficiency.

i havn't figured out how or why they combine the dumbest actions a mentally defeated human, that was drooling on exposed electric work would know better then not to do, vs the lame "knowing look" or otherwise lame "hearth wisdom" which of course most of the time has nothing to do with the situation other then a broadly vague "answer" to why they chose to do the stupidest thing they possiblly could. and its not just these books though this line of forgotten realms books do it more often then others.

i could name three that did it all the freakin time. everyone in the imperian oddesy, every drow written by RAS, and every god in the avatar trilogy at some point acted as if they knew somthing somone else didn't, and it was painfully obvious that they were wrong.
did you see a body??

all I saw was feign death, then poof dear old daddy appeared

It is actually quite explicitly told at the end of Ascendency of the Last. Breaking umpteen standing game rules along the way, but both the priestesses as well as the angels taking the soul of Cavatina (?) "home" definitely say that she was gone. And at least the latter would know.

As has been said before: nothing that can't be undone by a fanciful story in an upcoming book. Possibly to save the designers et al from loosing even more readers and players.
It is actually quite explicitly told at the end of Ascendency of the Last. Breaking umpteen standing game rules along the way, but both the priestesses as well as the angels taking the soul of Cavatina (?) "home" definitely say that she was gone. And at least the latter would know.

As has been said before: nothing that can't be undone by a fanciful story in an upcoming book. Possibly to save the designers et al from loosing even more readers and players.

I haven't read the novels, only what I could find about them on the internet (I have no intention of paying for the killing of my favourite goddess), but wouldn't it be possible that Qilué, Eilistraee and Halisstra are stuck together in the Crescent Blade?
yeah... .its possible, its also possible that the crescent blade was one of the imaskarcan too....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Well, my whole point was that the crescent blade didn't exactly work as intended at that final confrontation, being that Cavatina still had a soul that could go to the afterlife, rather than having it be destroyed. So...leaves things a bit open. I, for one, will be taking Brian R. James' suggestion
the archfey one, me too
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Well, my whole point was that the crescent blade didn't exactly work as intended at that final confrontation, being that Cavatina still had a soul that could go to the afterlife, rather than having it be destroyed. So...leaves things a bit open.

There are more inconsistencies with that blade. In the War of Spider Queen we were told that the CSB got it's power to cut through almost everything and by the way also gods from Eilistraee itself. Then it got lost in the realm of Lolth and was broken (something that could only happen if Eilistraee fueled it no longer with her "blessings", so she must have known that the blade no longer hold any powers).

In the LP series the blade came back, surprise, surprise. But now it was redone and later we came to know that it was possessed by the demon Wendonai (who fueled it now, instead of Eilistraee with the powers, but it is quite funny that the goddess seemed not to know it, one would think that gods had more brain than mortals).
The problem with that is, if a demon uses his ability to ride or possess something or someone, his body will sleep in the Abyss. Wendonai did not sleep, he even was walking around there in persona and was killed in the Abyss (what would destroy even a demon once and for all). But he survived because his soul was still in the blade (huh? ). Nothing of that goes with the rules of the game, but who cares?
The illogical part is, that Eilistraee seemed not to realize who was fueling her sword but at the end she should have known, that it was no longer her weapon, and if she still fueled it, than she just could have withdrawn her blessing from it at the moment the LP tried to cut her neck, so that it would be an ordinary sword. I mean if she had known that Wendonai or some other power was in the blade, why did she not tell it her priestesses, esp. Qilué at the moment the LP came to them and told them that the blade was still in the realm of Lolth. That would have spared them some big trouble and maybe they would not have run blind into the trap Lolth had put in place for them.
i didn't read the trilogy first before buying the 4th edition forgotten realms books. i scoured both the players guide and the campaign setting for one mention of the name. none. i jump on the forums to find out anything.

i then saw ( way back in the day) that they killed off eilistraee in the trilogy which was already again bought, because i never thought in any logical way that they would be rid of such a popular goddess. during the search for more info i bumped into a interview from either a fansite or somthing in which the author received the "order to kill" from the devs/editors but she herself worked some loophole for those fans to make it all good. but nothing is concrete. basically its one of those "interpitation" endings, if you want her dead shes dead sort of thing.

somehow it didn't make things better for me, it made things worse. 3 things made her my fave elf god.
1 she is the underdog. a lesser goddess in a drow pantheon that hated her.
2 she is the most "fey" of all the elf gods.
3 unlike most "fey" female gods she was the only one that didn't seem to cop out to an anti sex/virgin females need apply sort of lame-ness

im also kinda miffed she got no lip service from the new forgotten realms article introducing old gods as exarks. a perfect oppertunity to make a start to the fans to make amends.

clearly she is one of the top 3 reasons i gave up on the realms for 4th.
1 spell plague is a lame dues ex machina/retcon.
2 eilistraee and other gods are dead to fill a qouta of simplification. is killing mystra when starting a new edition, similar to the same tradition of knocking a perfectly good wine bottle on a ships hull to cristen it? seriously wth???
3 while its perfectly acceptible in art to have a minimalist fashion, it doesn't help in the least with world building.

my rant for the morning.
i have a theory that this is something to do with an author deficiency.

I don't even think it's the fault of the author. Likely the WotC bosses told her "Write three books, slay a deity in each of them" and it's not easy to come up with a well thought out story in merely one book per deicide
-"Author deficiency" seems a bit strong, because, from a technical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with Lida Smedman's books. I would, however, definitley agree with the idea that there's a bit of deficiency in the amount and/or depth of research that was done in regards to the writing of this novel series. It's hard, sure, when there's a lot of information, and topics that have been covered by plenty of different authors and designers over the years, but that's no "excuse"- especially for someone who is contracted by WotC to write, and as such, has access to WotC people.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
Bottemline is Eilistraees death shouldn't have stopped everyone from playing their Sworddancer and Eilistraean cleric PC's, and it doesn't with a little help from your DM.

Whats worse is the supposed disappearance of her clergy. It seems they have given up on the remaining drow. I find it unlikely Corellon would not sponsor the last remaining organisation capable of shaping drow society from within.
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