Pandorym and Imaskar

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I've just read something in the Elder Evils book mentioning novel "Darkvision" and Pandorym. Can someone provide further information?

Like a sphere of annihilation,
Pandorym’s non body destroys
everything
it touches, aside
from deities


I'm not a native speaker, but does it mean that gods are immune to this touching effect? If I understand correctly, Pandorym's job is to "eat" gods... but how can he do that if they're immune?

In 4th ed. there is no Great Wheel, so there is no realm perpendicular to the wheel (a reality which Pandorym inhabited before being brought to the planes). So, he would be a Far Realm creature now?

I'm a sking, because we plan a 4th ed FR campaign with Pandorym at the end. Of course we (players) want to kick his ass. ;)
Well, read the Darkvision novel for information about it. It's a decent novel, though I didn't find it to be very "Realms-ish."

As for Pandorym's statistical information, I can't really help you there, sorry.
I'm not a native speaker, but does it mean that gods are immune to this touching effect?

-If that was the exact quote, then I'd say yes.

If I understand correctly, Pandorym's job is to "eat" gods... but how can he do that if they're immune?

-By using a different method, obviously! ;)

So, he would be a Far Realm creature now?

-If I am not mistaken, Pandorym was always a Far Realm creature.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
I think if Pandorym's body and mind were reunited, THEN it could destroy any deity, but as of now, it's divided existence makes it lesser than it would otherwise be, and thus unable to actually kill gods.

Also, Pandorym is just about the only Elder Evil who ISN'T Far Realmsian in nature. He's from a "quasi-reality" that is "perpendicular to the Great Wheel," which I have always found intriguing, which is why I remember it. It seems like he's a sentient black hole of some kind, which makes the nature of his universe fascinating to contemplate.
He's from a "quasi-reality" that is "perpendicular to the Great Wheel," which I have always found intriguing, which is why I remember it.

-Isn't that what the Far Realm is, or originally was? The only reason I remember remotely caring about The Far Realm to begin with, when I read of it in The Manual of the Planes was because it was not in the Great Wheel cosmology, and instead, was outside of it; next to it ("perpendicular" to it).
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
-Isn't that what the Far Realm is, or originally was? The only reason I remember remotely caring about The Far Realm to begin with, when I read of it in The Manual of the Planes was because it was not in the Great Wheel cosmology, and instead, was outside of it; next to it ("perpendicular" to it).

I'm not a developer, so obviously I can't be authoritative, but I'm pretty sure they're not the same. "Next to" and "perpendicular" are different things. The Far Realm is "outside" the Great Wheel, but parallel to it, apparently. Let's say the Great Wheel is a circle cut out of a piece of construction paper sitting on a table. The Far Realm is an ovoid blob cutout next to it on the table. Pandorym's reality would be a pair of scissors that cuts through the piece of paper. Or it's like the Great Wheel is a round table, and Pandorym's reality is a pole drilled through the middle of it. That's how I see it, anyway.

Plus, Pandorym is, like I said, apparently some kind of sentient black hole, and that really doesn't sound like a Far Realm thing to me. The Far Realm and its denizens are always described as very organic, with lots of tentacles flailing about. No tentacles = not from the Far Realm! *LOL* (Actually, I find the "anything with a tentacle is a hideous monster from beyond the universe!" thing a little overdone, reductive, and uncreative, but like I said, I'm not a developer.)

So, basically, I don't know, but I think I'm right! ;)
But in 4th ed the Great Wheel is gone. So it must be the Far Realm, where Pandorym comes form. However, I have to admit that I am against the whole concept of "there is always something greater in terms of power". Greater gods should be the most powerful beings. It's the essence of divinity. It doesn't make sense that mere mortal Imaskar wizards are able to bind and imprison Pandorym (and divide his body and mind!), but the gods are unable to undone the harm and destroy the creature. And what with Ao? It's strange that he allowed such an entity to enter Realmspace.

Pandormym's mind has some "tentacles", actually. ;) They' re clearly visible, though a little foggy.
-If I am not mistaken, Pandorym was always a Far Realm creature.

Being from a tangent multiverse isn't the same as being from the Far Realms though. There have been multiple adjacent realities hinted at in 2e and 3e, of which the Great Wheel, the Far Realm, the nameless reality that spawned the Keepers, Pandorym's reality, etc are just a few examples. They could potentially be thought of as self-contained bubbles of calcified probability floating within the raw potential of the deep ethereal (or what the deep ethereal is just the shallows of in a larger scale structure of reality).
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
The gods Pandorym was called to destroy (or threaten to destroy) were not actual gods like the other FR deities, but avatars of the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities. They existed only as material entities in the Realms, and probably would have been destroyed when Pandorym touched them.

Another way of getting rid of gods is killing their worshippers. But I don't know if that applies here.
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
But in 4th ed the Great Wheel is gone.

-We're talking about now, not later.

Being from a tangent multiverse isn't the same as being from the Far Realms though. There have been multiple adjacent realities hinted at in 2e and 3e, of which the Great Wheel, the Far Realm, the nameless reality that spawned the Keepers, Pandorym's reality, etc are just a few examples. They could potentially be thought of as self-contained bubbles of calcified probability floating within the raw potential of the deep ethereal (or what the deep ethereal is just the shallows of in a larger scale structure of reality).

-Ahhh...

Another way of getting rid of gods is killing their worshippers. But I don't know if that applies here.

-Specifically concerning the Mulhorandi and Untheric "avatar deities", I don't think so. They became more than metaphorical, metaphysical entites, when they took the form of flesh.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
But he is correct in the fact that Pandorym would have been able to 'eat' the now-mortal 'fleshy' gods.

Pandorym being from 'outside reality', but NOT from the Far Realms makes my head hurt. I always assumed their was the multi-verse, and their was the stuff outside of it, which is called ''The Far Realms' in D&D lingo.

Notice the terms 'Realms' - it's plural. Why can't the 'Far Realms' be ALL those other places outside of reality? Abeerations come from the Far Realms - but perhaps just one, or a few, of them. Maybe Pandorym comes from a 'Far' Realm that doesn't have Aberrations, but where the stars themselves have evolved sentience.

So, the D&D 'Megaverse' would include the Multiverse (all those D&D/D20 worlds/settings), AND the Far Realms, which would be all those settings that do not fit into the normal Megaverse - different laws of physics and what-not (like Fluidic Space in Star Trek). There could be just as many 'Far Realms' as their are 'regular worlds' then.
Pandorym being from 'outside reality', but NOT from the Far Realms makes my head hurt. I always assumed their was the multi-verse, and their was the stuff outside of it, which is called ''The Far Realms' in D&D lingo.

Notice the terms 'Realms' - it's plural. Why can't the 'Far Realms' be ALL those other places outside of reality?

-That's how I always saw it. There is/was the Great Wheel/Great Tree/4e Cosmic Soup and then there is/was everything else, ie., the Far Realms.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
Right - its not A place, its a group of places, so it's easy to see how Pandorym could have come from one of them - tentacles not withsatnding. ;)
Notice the terms 'Realms' - it's plural. Why can't the 'Far Realms' be ALL those other places outside of reality?

Because to this point, everything we've seen from the "Far Realms" has been mostly lovecraftian pastiche. Anything that doesn't fit that mold really gets diminished by being included within its locational rubric. It's too limiting in a sense.

In-game I also want to say the name "Far Realms" was coined by a single race of mortal elves, so their name might not even be accurate in the sense that they didn't know what they'd found and opened a door to till it almost killed them all.

Abeerations come from the Far Realms - but perhaps just one, or a few, of them.

I can't actually think of a single major abberation race that's from the Far Realms. Mind Flayers are entirely from the Great Wheel/multiverse, Aboleths were potentially the first intelligent mortal life within the local multiverse (though they were incidentally created by something lairing within the Far Realms which had a tendency to wander -and meddle- between various tangent realities), Tsochar are just from another distant planet in the mundane material plane, and beholders were the creations of a mad god from the Abyss.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
Okay, so to better explain what I meant -

Maybe the Aberrations themselves didn't come from the Far Realms (after all, we know they came from Abeir now), but perhaps things from the Far Realms created the Aberrations that are native to the prime material.

Even in Lovecraft's cosmology, their were various 'factions' of evil things - the Elder Evils can all come from the Far Realms, but that doesn't neccessarily mean they all 'dabble' in Aberration creation. Perhaps Pandorym prefers creating 'energy creatures', like the Nilshai, or any of the other energy-draining types.

The Far Realms, to me, has always meant 'outside of the normal universe', which means it could very well be an infinite number of Realms where the Elder Evils reside. To shackle all of them to the Lovecraftian Psuedo-natural template is rather limiting, IMHO.

So, I think to move away from being a mere Lovecraft derivitive, the Far Realms could evolve in 4e to be so much more... and include things that have NO relation to Aberrations (at least, the 'normal' ones we already know of).

If the lower planes were once able to house multiple races of fiends, then why can't the far Realms be much the same? Besides, aren't Demons just supposed to be 'corrupted' elementals come 4e? Corrupted by WHAT? The only thing I can think of that would turn anthropomorphic creatures like Djenn and Devils into the abominations that some demons and ghereliths look like would be to slap the 'psuedo-natural' template on them.

So there you go - the Demons are just Devils that went over to the 'wild side' and absorbed to much pure chaos. :D

Not sure if I went off on a tangent here...

Any way, I feel the Elder Evils (ALL of them) should be originally from the 'Far Realms', which I certainly hope they don't try to better define in 4e - how does one define 'pure chaos'?
Even in Lovecraft's cosmology, their were various 'factions' of evil things - the Elder Evils can all come from the Far Realms, but that doesn't neccessarily mean they all 'dabble' in Aberration creation. Perhaps Pandorym prefers creating 'energy creatures', like the Nilshai, or any of the other energy-draining types.

Or Derleth's poorly written abomination of an attempt to codify a Lovecraftian cosmology at least. (Not an August Derleth fan here).

Well the "Elder Evils" worshipped by the Aboleths are all from or linked to the Far Realms. The "Elder Evils" from the book of the same name aren't linked to that original group, and I think it was probably a mistake to use the term given that it risks blurring some very different critters (the "Elder Evil" that's an ancient baatorian for instance is radically different from say Piscithes the Blood Queen "Elder Evil" of the Aboleths).

Some notion of factions among a previously monolithic far realmsian antipathy to anything else was introduced by 'Lords of Madness'. It was a good step, but given the authors of that book (Jacobs, other freelancers, etc) and the composition of WotC's 4e design team, I really don't see WotC continuing along that path. I expect more slime, tentacles, and pseudo-Lovecraft for better or for worse.

The Far Realms, to me, has always meant 'outside of the normal universe', which means it could very well be an infinite number of Realms where the Elder Evils reside. To shackle all of them to the Lovecraftian Psuedo-natural template is rather limiting, IMHO.

Very true, but so far that's how WotC has handled things. It's unfortunate.

So, I think to move away from being a mere Lovecraft derivitive, the Far Realms could evolve in 4e to be so much more... and include things that have NO relation to Aberrations (at least, the 'normal' ones we already know of).

But then the Far Realms lose a cohesive character, 4e has gone around with anesthetic and a wood chipper to remove anything remotely sharing traits with something else for fear of it being too complex to distinguish. God forbid we have humanoid demons, succubi and erinyes that look even vaguely alike, etc

I don't see them departing from the 3e/Cordell description of the Far Realms.

Any way, I feel the Elder Evils (ALL of them) should be originally from the 'Far Realms', which I certainly hope they don't try to better define in 4e - how does one define 'pure chaos'?

I define pure chaos as the Slaadi. The Far Realms aren't chaotic, they just operate by their own self-consistant rule set that happens to be incomprehensible to non-Far Realms creatures. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
-MT, don't accidentally confuse the Far Realms and "Abeir". Right now- at least- they two are distinctly seperate entities. The Far Realms has Pseudonatural creatures, and "Abeir" has Abberations. There is, at least I think, a fine line of differentiation between the two.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
I'm with Shemeska (surprise!): as presented heretofore, the Far Realms are an organic, Lovecraftian landscape of goo and tentacles. Lots and lots of tentacles. I do take your point, MarkusTay and Lord Karsus, that it could be, and even should be, a more general term for any cosmology outside of the standard one of the game setting, but nothing I've seen from previous editions or the previews of 4E indicates that the term is used that way. Also, the Far Realms could be plural just because there are different layers and planes to it. They're just a lot more porous and interactive, with some creatures existed simultaneously in several, while others regularly pop in and out of them.

The Far Realms has Pseudonatural creatures, and "Abeir" has Abberations. There is, at least I think, a fine line of differentiation between the two.

What IS the difference? Seriously, I want to know, because I've never really understood all the categories, like "abomination" and "abberation" and "psuedonatural" and all that, and the difference between them.
What IS the difference? Seriously, I want to know, because I've never really understood all the categories, like "abomination" and "abberation" and "psuedonatural" and all that, and the difference between them.

Aberration: A deviation from the proper or expected course; A departure from the normal or typical
Pseudo: False; Not Genuine
Natural: Present in or produced by nature; Occurring in conformity with the ordinary course of nature

-Basically, as I see it, Aberrations are creatures that, for whatever reason, simply aren't natural. Pseudonatural Creatures are not natural to the Great Wheel cosmology, but are natural to their own Far Realms. An argument could be made, I guess, that Pseudonatural Creatures are Aberrations. Aberrations wouldn't necessarily be Pseudonatural Creatures, though.

...but nothing I've seen from previous editions or the previews of 4E indicates that the term is used that way.

-As I pointed out to MT, concerning the 4e Forgotten Realms, a lot of the "Lovecraftian" stuff is from 'Abeir', which isn't the Far Realms.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature

:88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul




18D:P

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

-Those would be Aberrations. ;)
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
And here I thought they were just realy ugly 'smilies'. ;)
-They don't look like they are smiling...
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
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