A Planeswalker's Guide to Theros

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The Plane of Theros


The caprice of the gods, the destined hero, the great journey, the untamed wilds beyond the city walls, the raging sea, the birth of civilization, temples and burnt offerings, hoplites and phalanxes, hydras, gorgons, minotaurs, sacred and profane rites and rituals, great thinkers, enlightened despots, revels in the woods, the power of belief—Theros is a plane filled with divine magic and monstrous danger, where heroes are born and where legends are made.



Art by Zack Stella


The Land of Nyx


When mortals sleep and dream on Theros, they are said to "visit Nyx," the proverbial land of night and the home of the gods. Therefore, dreams are seen as gifts from the gods. When the gods appear to mortals, each is "infused" with Nyx itself. Where the god's features or form would be shadowed, instead the night sky is visible, as though the gods occupy the daylit world and the nighttime world at once.



Art by Sam Burley


Enchantments: Magic of the Gods


The gods themselves are living enchantments. For this reason, all enchantments are thought to be gifts from the gods—a unique form of magic enabled by divinities.


Additionally, when other creatures such as nymphs demonstrate the "infusion" of night sky that all the gods have in common, it's taken as evidence that the nymphs are servants of the gods, native to Nyx, and only visiting the sunlit, mortal world at the gods' behest.



Art by Volkan Baga


The Gods of Theros


Countless generations of stories and faiths have led to a pantheon of gods that oversees the most important aspects of Theran life.


Heliod, God of the Sun



Art by Jamie Jones


Domains: Heliod represents law, justice, retribution, and the bonds of kinship. Heliod presides over matters of family honor, questions of morality and virtue, speeches, marriages, acts of protective bravery, dawn meals, and self-sacrifice. Heliod's name is often part of legal proceedings, and sacrifices to him are made in times when the greatest aid—or the strictest justice—is needed.


Signature item: Heliod wields Khrusor, the Sun Spear, a weapon blessed with his power that can be pitched down from the heavens to any point on Theros. Obscure legends say that another major polis once existed, a coastal city known as Arixmethes, that Heliod smote with Khrusor and cast into the sea.



Art by Yeong-Hao Han


Personality: Heliod radiates with pride and self-assurance. His presence fills the sky with light, blocking mortal access to the dark, starry view of Nyx, and in person he has the same overwhelming aura of awe and brilliance. He is convivial and gregarious, making friends and forming bonds easily, and he sees himself as the ally to all. But others know that Heliod can be fickle in his loyalty. Heliod's greatest ally today might be the target of his retribution tomorrow.



Art by Nils Hamm


Worship: Heliod is the sun god, literally bringing the light of day to the world, so almost everyone on Theros pays at least tokenistic acknowledgment to him. Some families have a custom of winking in the direction of the dawn's light first thing in the morning, a gesture of respect to the sun god's luminous eye. Heliod's devoted worshippers are mainly humans and Laggona Band centaurs, who celebrate Heliod on the first clear-skied morning of every month. Temples to Heliod often feature stairs up to a rooftop courtyard, enabling sun worship. The largest holiday aligned with Heliod is the summer solstice, celebrated with three days of ceremonious feasting, weddings, and oaths of loyalty.


Thassa, God of the Sea



Art by Jason Chan


Domains: Thassa is the god of the sea and also presides over aquatic creatures and the secrets of the briny deep. But she is also the god of ancient knowledge, murmurs, gradual change, introspection, vast distances, long voyages, and far-ranging searches. Thassa might also be described as the god of patterns, such as those of tides, currents, ripples in water, and even the passage of time.


Signature item: Thassa wields Dekella, a two-pronged spear. Wielding Dekella allows her to control the tides and stir the seas into whirlpools. Legend has it that a mortal sailor once stole Dekella and used it to destroy an enemy fleet, and that Thassa punished the mortal by turning his entire family into eels.



Art by Yeong-Hao Han


Personality: Thassa is the god who is least likely to be satisfied with the status quo, but also the least likely to rush to change. She is constantly striving to resculpt the land, changing coastlines and upending institutions for the purpose of slow, eventual, unfolding change.


When she speaks, she often uses the future tense, always referring to what tomorrow will bring, forever uninterested with the reality of today. Thassa is slow to anger but implacable once roused. Her anger can grow like a rumbling, cresting, unstoppable wave, taking out whole villages with its fury—then subside with the tide, dragging the evidence of her wrath calmly out to sea.



Art by Clint Cearley


Worship: Tritons and the humans of Meletis comprise most of Thassa's worshippers, as well as all who venture out to sea, whether for exploration, commerce, or war. Although tritons exalt her above all other gods, she shows no favoritism toward them, seeming equally impassive to all mortals. She is worshipped with offerings of fish and salt by the poor, offerings of pearls and nacre by the rich, and with murmured prayers and quiet contemplation by all.


Erebos, God of the Underworld



Art by Peter Mohrbacher


When the sun first shone on Heliod, god of the sun, the first shadow was cast. When Heliod saw it, he feared and banished it, sending it beyond the so-called Rivers That Ring the World, the five rivers that form a boundary between Theros and its Underworld. That shadow became Erebos, the god of death. In time, Erebos accepted his role, knowing that although Heliod had banished him, he would always stand behind the sun god.


Domains: Erebos rules over death and the Underworld, but these aren't his only duties. Because of his own origins, he is also the god of misfortune, ill fate, begrudging acceptance, envy, and bitterness. And because he is lord of the Underworld, where gold is common and valueless, he is also the god of wealth.


Although it might seem as though Erebos is connected to Nyx more closely than the other gods, this isn't the case. Erebos's realm lacks both the sun and the night.


Signature item: Erebos wields Mastix, a golden-handled whip with an impossibly long lash, like a thin shadow that stretches on forever. The whip is a means of inflicting pain when he must, but its more frequent function is as a snare to pull the reluctant dead into—or back into—his realm.



Art by Yeong-Hao Han


Personality: Erebos is an effective warden and lord of the Underworld realm. He is not without compassion, but his compassion is limited to feeling on behalf of others what he himself feels, and his acceptance of his fate means that his lieges, the dead, must accept theirs. He idly envies the sunlit world of the living, but only in a daydream-like way. He knows that all mortal souls will eventually join him, which affords him a kind of satisfaction and certainty. When others suffer, it brings Erebos peace, but not glee, because the alienation and banishment of others enables them to identify with his own.



Art by Dan Scott


Worship: The god of the underworld is worshipped by three distinct sets of mortal beings: those who exalt death, those who desire wealth, and those who pray for acceptance of their fates. The first group is the smallest but most dangerous; they seek to bring about a confrontation between Heliod and his shadow. The second group is largest. Because the dead leave their earthly wealth behind, Erebos has become associated with that wealth, as well as with the abundance of (to him, pretty but valueless) gold in his realm. The final group is closest to Erebos's heart—those who have been cast out and who seek peace with their fate.


Purphoros, God of the Forge



Art by Eric Deschamps


Domains: Purphoros is the god of the forge, the restless earth, and fire. He rules the raw creative force of heat and energy that fills the souls of sentient beings. His energy emerges as chaos, something to be harnessed and shaped by labor and passion. For this reason, Purphoros is also the god of artisans, of obsession, and of the cycle of creation and destruction.


Signature item: Purphoros wields Akmon, a large hammer whose head slightly resembles an anvil. A blow from Akmon can render the earth molten, and when it strikes metal, each spark becomes a new enchantment, some of which even take on life.



Art by Yeong-Hao Han


Personality: To sit in the presence of Purphoros is to be inspired. He forges the most ornate and delicate items only to dash them into flame and start again. He is reasonable yet ultimately follows no rules save his own creative and destructive impulses. Sometimes, this can mean covering a whole area with lava to make way for something new. His main flaw is that of frustration, of feeling limited and constrained. He is forever pushing against the barriers of mortal imagination, sensing that there is much more to express. This can cause him to plummet into despondency and then lash out at the world with raw destruction.



Art by Mathias Kollros


Worship: Followers of Purphoros, the god of the forge, brought the secret of bronze to Theros, leading to stronger objects and armaments than any created previously. And the most sanctified shamans of Purphoros also possess small quantities of a new metal said to have come from Purphoros's forge: iron. But it's not only smiths who worship him. Artists, human and satyr especially, seek his aid, ascending to altars on volcanic slopes to breathe deeply of the creative vapors. Warriors give him homage when lighting a bonfire. Potters inscribe their works with markings meant to honor him.


Nylea, God of the Hunt



Art by Chris Rahn


Domains: Nylea is the god of the hunt, the seasons, and the forest. Because of her reign over the hunt, she is also associated with predation and hunger. And because of her rule of the seasons, she is also the god of metamorphosis and rebirth. Nylea receives strength and peace from sleeping inside the chrysalis at the center of her grove.


Signature item: Nylea is Theros's finest archer, and she wields a shortbow called Ephixis. Her companion, the nymph Theophila, conjures illusions for target practice, such as fireflies or miniscule silk worms. Nylea has no qualms with predation, but she loathes hunting for sport. She personally kills poachers in the Nistos Forest who have not asked for her blessing to hunt her animals.



Art by Yeong-Hao Han


Personality: Nylea is usually aloof and thoughtful, but with her companions she is playful and joyful. She has a feral, animalistic side and shoulders the responsibility of keeping the forest a haven for animals, preventing the spread of humans into her domain, and letting the natural world have free rein. Nylea is quick to anger and vengeance if something threatens her realm. The seasons change at her whim, and she delays the change if angered. She is allied with Purphoros, and permits him to unleash fires on the forest when it is in need of cleansing or when humans are encroaching too far into the wilds.


Nylea has a tumultuous relationship with Karametra, the god of the hearth. Karametra is infuriated by Nylea's interference in the seasons. In turn, Nylea is disgusted by agriculture, which she sees as an aberration from the natural cycle of the world.



Art by Mathias Kollros


Worship: Nylea doesn't have temples built in her honor. She dislikes the construction of temples and cities in general. Nymphs of all kinds pay homage to her, as do sentient humanoids such as satyrs, centaurs, and many citizens of Setessa. Her holy sites often consist of a tree surrounded by a cloud of butterflies. When one of these trees is spotted, people say she is near. Her human followers tend to be loners, outcasts, and those who choose to live in the wilds. Some city dwellers will come into the forest to honor her, especially to pray that the seasons will change in a timely manner. Nylea hates sacrifices and is notoriously hard to please.


Depending on their offerings, worshippers could as easily anger her as win her blessing. She enjoys seeing acts of kindness and protection of creatures both domesticated and wild.

So now we need to know who the hell Karametra is. It sounds like there's more than 5 gods on Theros. I wonder if they are just lesser players in the same Pantheon as the Big 5, or if they each serve one of main ones, and never become important.
woooooo!

There's a lot of information to digest, but a few points
-The art is fantastic! Of note, the piece of nyx with the griffin and the archer
-The black god isn't evil! Hooray! Although being the god of gold feels a little too parallel to Hades. He also has a nice origin story.
-There are more than just the five gods, like Karametra, god of the hearth.
-Gender might not mean much to them, but they are all referred to as 'god'; no distinction between god and goddess.
-The big 5 have signature weapons.
- I think the visual cue that Doug was referring to was nyx being in all the gods' blessings (auras?)
IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/3/39/Mirrodin_Loyalty.png) thanks to gamma-mage for the awesome banner

I'm glad Wizards went with a smith god instead of war god and we got a hint about more gods with Karametra. I also like the idea of having signature items. I love that is has so many greek elements but still feel original. 

I want to know whats up with that cat being burned by Purphoros.
At first, I thought it was Ajani, but it doesn't have hix axe
I don't recall any Greek myths about cat people...
Hah!
Im pretty sure Theophilia means "God Lover"
From the article:

The gods themselves are living enchantments. For this reason, all enchantments are thought to be gifts from the gods—a unique form of magic enabled by divinities.


Is that so?

Obscure legends say that another major polis once existed, a coastal city known as Arixmethes, that Heliod smote with Khrusor and cast into the sea.

So, a Magic twist on Atlantis?
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56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
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Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
First reaction before I go to work: Yes, Black isn't evil and Red isn't war!

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I love the gods so far, Erebos the most and Nylea the least. I love Erebos as a fatalist god and Purphoros as an artisan god. But also, I love how they also embody the cruelty of the Olympians, but in different ways. Heliod as the fickle frat boy and Thassa as being completely detached from the immediacy of mortal life.

The wealth aspect does seem to be thrown in there for Erebos, especially since the afterlife is no longer in the ground like with Hades.
I kinda liked the fact that he presided over wealth. It felt like something that isn't morbid but can also be associated with black flavor via pragmatism and self-betterment and brutal honesty that I think money is a pretty good embodiment of, seeing as black seldom gets to explore the more intricate abstractions of its color pie. It works because it furthers Erebos' total and utter alienation from mortality and life. The very pinnacle of value is completely meaningless, superficial and fake, just earthen material collecting dust, and no matter how much he collects, it will never allow him to fit in. He's a more conscientious Patrick Bateman god. I'm super happy with how they handled the character. I only thought Nylea was a bit half-baked.
So happy with the reveal of this~!

- Loving the not too CGI-ish arts, Jeremy Jarvis has done an amazing job again~! I do not know if this will expand for the whole set but I welcome it if ever it is.
- Loving all the background info on all the Gods, and specially will kneel in front of Purphoros. MAH LAWD SMITE ME~!
- The interaction of Nylea and My God Purphoros amuses me, at least they show that such a dynamic can exist between the main pantheon.
- IN before some people ship NyleaxTheophilia
- For once I am feeling for a black story figurehead, nice twist for this set. And I sort of lul-zed at his connection with wealth.

Cannot wait for more reveals in PAX. :D

Super-excited now. Love how they've handled the major deities and really intrigued to see what minor gods / nymphs we get, plus why there is a leonin in that art. It's looking really good again though - and to think I wasn't really excited by Theros when they first announced it. Now I can't wait :D

ETA: Just noticed the statue of Erebos in the background of the Volkan Baga purple nymph art. At least, I assume it's a statue.
Can't help but like the way they set up Purphoros' miracle metal: Iron! Works both to show the state of metal crafting on the plan and set it apart from planes with more advanced alloys/crafting materials (Dark steel, Mizzium, Etherium). Plus can't help but laugh a little.
Hah!
Im pretty sure Theophilia means "God Lover"

My first reaction to this was "Holy ****, are we finally getting some qveer representation in the form of A GODLY COUPLE?"

Please please please let this be a thing, Wizards. Please.



The Gods are great. I've been pretty neutral on this set so far, but Wizards is going in a unique direction here with these characters that I really dig. I also love the hint that there's more than the main five, which was sort of like... bleh, really? I thought we had gotten away from such literal interpretations of the five colors. So, I'm glad there's hints of more diversity than that.

Erebos definitely steals the show so far. I also like that Heliod has some of Zeus's capriciousness, and I love that Red is about destruction and creation and ART, but yeah, Erebos is going to make for some very interesting stories for sure.

I guess we have to finish the Innistrad Anthology before getting into Theros. ...I guess I have to find a place to live before I help finish the Innistrad anthology... >_> Back to wandering around Toronto I guess. Bluh. I AM RESIGNED TO MY FATE. EREBOS BLESS ME.

(Oh, and yeah, I got shivers when I got to the Iron bit. That's so cool.) 
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Erebos may not be cackling evil, but I'm 60% sure he'll be the villain of the block all the same (whether directly or because he has a very dangerous cult), because when dealing with greek myths in popular culture, Hades is almost always the bad guy.  And, you know, Greed, Envy, and confrontation with Heliod.

The other 40% is Bolas.

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
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Round 6: (8-7-1)

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Heliod being capricious and Elspeth becoming his champion hints at Heliod being the antagonist to me. Maybe like the whole Wonder Woman deposing Zeus for Athena storyline in Marvel. And I think Zeus' dickery is less established than like Disney's Hades but not foreign to popular culture.

At the very least, Zeus is known for his philandering a lot more than Hades is known as an evil god.

ETA: I do think it's funny that iron is the miracle metal of Prophuros, even though its usefulness was based on the fact that it's easier to mass produce at a "good enough" quality and not because it's better than bronze.
I have to say I'm really looking forward to a theme I've been waiting for in a block since...

...Well, since I started playing Magic, and so far it looks gorgeous, the promise of enchantment creatures is pretty exciting, and I'm looking forward to seeing how all this hero/monster business is executed mechanically. I like the quiet little follower-cue that SEEMS to be wielding the same kind of weapon/tool as one's god. (Cultist's whip, Elspeth's brand new spear, etc.)

Then we got to the gods. Black and White, as always, simply have to pull each other into a dipole thing that supercedes White vs. Red AND Black Vs. Green and makes the whole wheel feel wobbly. This is not a surprise. But when it's right next to all the effort they did show at representing the colors in a new way (Purphuros is the god of art, Erebos doesn't seem like a bad guy, Heliod is super friendly but a LITTLE bit of a jerk) it just demonstrates how little they care for changing this. How easy it would've been to fix. The negative effort, honestly, it would take to just. Not do that this time. And how little consideration it takes to actually fail to do so when one is already revamping so much else.

Similarly unsurprising but especially saddening: Nylea. Everyone else seems fairly well rounded, and I could very well just be grumping, but next to them Nylea appears to be the god of killing everything, also amanals, also *~she's nice.~* Sometimes it seems like Green has replaced Red as the color no one understands or cares to understand, favoring instead its most violent and exciting side, along with whatever else might happen make a cool card.

The worst part is the set DOES have a really cool god of Green, one that brilliantly exemplifies Green at its most basic, abstract essence in a way Magic has never put on its cards before.

Her name is Thassa.

But all my bellyaching has nearly spoiled the fact that we have a Greek block and it looks REALLY REALLY COOL. Seriously. I'm happy. I promise.
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69511863 wrote:
Sure, "the average person" might go see Transformers 3 if s/he wants a good story, but that doesn't stop people from making decent movies. Hell, they even managed to make Batman into a respectable movie. "The average" person might like American Idol or Jersey Shore, but people still made The Wire.
57722938 wrote:
I think the people who would sit down and listen to a minstrel reciting Homer, or thought that novels were art, or read poetry were always a minority. It's a common viewpoint that art was better in the past because everyone's forgotten the bad stuff, while we haven't had time to forget the awful stuff that is current.
56738148 wrote:
For almost all Magic fans, the "story" of Ravnica, for example, is that it's a city world with ten guilds -- yes, for most, that's a "story." All but a tiny fraction of the fan base are entirely unaware of an elaborate plot perpetrated by Augustin IV to trick Agrus Kos and Szadek into breaking the Guildpact, thereby enabling the Azorius to take control. Likewise, the vast majority of Magic players don't know who Harbin is, or Nivea, or Al-Hayat, or Feather, or Jared Carthalion, or Rebbec, or Zagorka ... the list goes on and on.
57916198 wrote:
I'm pulling this out of nowhere and it has nothing like fact attached to it, but it cannot be disproven without breaking the fourth wall, and this is going to be my headcanon because it makes perfect sense. I posit [Tamiyo, the Moon Sage] writes the Planeswalker's Guides to planes.
And one more thing...
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I don't get all the hate for Nylea.  She's my second favorite behind Purphuros.  I mean, I get that everyone wants to be all, "Let's super twist the intrinsic philosophies behind all the colors to show them in different forms," but what, really, about Nylea is not Green?  It's as if being the Green trope is suddenly not worthy of Green (the same could be said of feedback I typically see for any of the colors).

Green is wild, instinctual, and natural -- is Nylea not these things?

Also, I really don't see what isn't evil about Erebos: his extreme fatalism that he projects onto others is pretty much the outright denial of choice.  Yeah, he isn't mustache-twirling villainy, but he is certainly evil.

I agree with Yanmato that the dichotomy typically lopsides the color wheel, which is typical.  But, I won't complain too much, here -- there may yet be other aspects of Theros where we see the and tension outside of the Gods.

I'm not sure Thassa would make for the perfect Green example, mostly because of these two traits: ancient knowledge and introspection.  The others, though, I could see under either God.  But I also read things like "long voyages" with an air of discovery and desire for knowledge, while I would see a Green God's attitude towards "long voyages" to be more representative of things like migratory patterns for survival and mating.

I don't recall any Greek myths about cat people...


Maybe it wandered in with the Kraken?

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Just read the article, and I absolutely love it. They managed to place such depth and knowledge in a seemingly superficial presentation, which is more than I could ask for.

Particular comments:

- Heliod does have "zeusian" traits, but otherwise he resembles Apollon most closely (and since Apollon was occasionally revered as a judge that punishes cruelly, yeah). I like that there's a fickle nature to him, which so deliciously contrasts 's normal rigidity.

- Thassa is probably the only god I don't particularly like. I get what they were trying to do, the mixture of an athenian figure with Poseidon is just bipolar.

- Erebos comes across as their notion of Hades, and so far I like him: he truly is the non-malevolent, neutral aspect of , which that fatalistic edge (albeit appearently in a genuinely well meaning way). I like that he is empathetic, albeit in the usual self centered way, which is nice.

- Purphoros is a refined version of Hephaistos, and I really love the emphasis on creation and artistry. He still has the destruction aspect, but feels justified, and is not the main emphasis, so that's good.

- Nylea superficially resembles Artemis, but she does have many Gaia traits, particularly on her emphasis on the natural cycles, primal predation and dislike of non-hunger driven hunting. I like her hypocrisy of disliking hunters while killing insects for practise.

Also, I really don't see what isn't evil about Erebos: his extreme fatalism that he projects onto others is pretty much the outright denial of choice.  Yeah, he isn't mustache-twirling villainy, but he is certainly evil.



Except he only projects his fatalism on his followers, which supposedly would know what they're in for. "Certainly evil" is beyond stretching it.
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)


- Nylea superficially resembles Artemis, but she does have many Gaia traits, particularly on her emphasis on the natural cycles, primal predation and dislike of non-hunger driven hunting. I like her hypocrisy of disliking hunters while killing insects for practise.



She dislikes hunters who hunt for sport. The "bugs" she kills are illusions made from her attendent Theophila. 
Sorry if I copy-paste from the other thread, but maybe you guys can enlighten me more on what's there to like here...

"I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

So, your problem is that the red god has a red worldview and mortal creatures with red worldviews worship him?
You know, I just had an amusing thought. Elspeth chose the wrong place to try to lay low and not be a hero... because she's probably got the most advanced weapons and armor in the entire world since they're barely messing around with iron and she's already fully sheathed in refined steel.

Of COURSE she's going to draw attention.
So, your problem is that the red god has a red worldview and mortal creatures with red worldviews worship him?


First, that is only one of my problems. And it's not at all complete as you stated it. The problem is associating to these things an image that is at best a partial representation of all of that, only because it has "Greek feel". And tell me, how could these satyrs, who have never seen a forge for sure, worship the god of the forge? It seems like a bad joke to me.
And I said it's not the only problem because it's basically repeated all over in all the gods. The sea god is also intellectual only because yeah, Blue. Or if you want, the intellectual god is also the sea god because yeah, Islands, Blue. Basically all the gods have some contraddictions in their flavor that seem like cheesy parodies of the game's workings to me.

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 


The God of the forge has a deep inclination towards creativity and expression as a core philosophy.  While this is commonly manifest through the forge, it can manifest in other ways, and it draws worshippers who share the same spirit yet manifest that essence through different methods.

Purphoros's actions are the result of a deeper philosophy (and level of emotional control, and physical skill) than "God of the forge."

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com — A functioning forum

Sorry if I copy-paste from the other thread, but maybe you guys can enlighten me more on what's there to like here...

"I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 




Besides the rather narrow world perspective already pointed out above, I'm really curious about what you conisder "cliches". Artemis barely appears in greek myth based media, Hades is always depicted as Satan, Apollon is never connected to his judicial side, et cetera.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 


The God of the forge has a deep inclination towards creativity and expression as a core philosophy.  While this is commonly manifest through the forge, it can manifest in other ways, and it draws worshippers who share the same spirit yet manifest that essence through different methods.

Purphoros's actions are the result of a deeper philosophy (and level of emotional control, and physical skill) than "God of the forge."

We can desume that because we know the color pie, but the article doesn't talk about different manifestations of the gods, which would make sense to justify why would woodland creatures revere a forge god, when they probably don't even use metal, even less know how to forge it...

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Sorry if I copy-paste from the other thread, but maybe you guys can enlighten me more on what's there to like here...

"I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 




Besides the rather narrow world perspective already pointed out above, I'm really curious about what you conisder "cliches". Artemis barely appears in greek myth based media, Hades is always depicted as Satan, Apollon is never connected to his judicial side, et cetera.


What narrow world perspective? Please explain. Maybe it's because in Italy everybody knows that Hades was completely different from Satan, everybody knows Artemis, and I'm pretty sure Apollon never had a judicial side. (Cite sources?)


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

We can desume that because we know the color pie, but the article doesn't talk about different manifestations of the gods, which would make sense to justify why would woodland creatures revere a forge god, when they probably don't even use metal, even less know how to forge it...



Because he represents more than just the forge. You should probably reread their entire domains before you fixate so much on one aspect of their total character.

Besides that, you're also applying real world aspects that don't exist in Theros. That of the aloof god. The Theros pantheon actually DOES manifest directly and interact with their followers. They aren't made up in the same way the gods of Earth are, so they have a much more direct influence on those which choose to pay homage to them.

Maybe the satyrs just dig the passion Purphoros has when he shows up. He's all about creation and destruction, the constant renewal. Even then, we don't know enough about the Satyrs yet, so HOW COULD YOU KNOW what they value yet?
So, your problem is that the red god has a red worldview and mortal creatures with red worldviews worship him?


First, that is only one of my problems. And it's not at all complete as you stated it. The problem is associating to these things an image that is at best a partial representation of all of that, only because it has "Greek feel". And tell me, how could these satyrs, who have never seen a forge for sure, worship the god of the forge? It seems like a bad joke to me.
And I said it's not the only problem because it's basically repeated all over in all the gods. The sea god is also intellectual only because yeah, Blue. Or if you want, the intellectual god is also the sea god because yeah, Islands, Blue. Basically all the gods have some contraddictions in their flavor that seem like cheesy parodies of the game's workings to me.

So, the gods have a mix of portfolios (almost as crazy as war and weaving or horses and the sea or music and healing or commerce and sports) and those portfolios have associated aspects and elements, and different mortals worship the gods as appropriate to their lives? Like satyrs who are seeking creative inspiration worship the red god of artistry (as an aspect of being the forge god) while other satyrs worship the green god of nature (as an aspect of being the nature god).

You're right, it's totally contradictory that a sea god is also associated with knowledge when out of the astrological elements, intellectualism is associated with the air and that makes so much more sense.
We can desume that because we know the color pie, but the article doesn't talk about different manifestations of the gods, which would make sense to justify why would woodland creatures revere a forge god, when they probably don't even use metal, even less know how to forge it...


We can presume that because the description says as much, not because of our knowledge of the color pie.  And there are different manifestations right here:
He forges the most ornate and delicate items only to dash them into flame and start again. He is reasonable yet ultimately follows no rules save his own creative and destructive impulses. Sometimes, this can mean covering a whole area with lava to make way for something new. His main flaw is that of frustration, of feeling limited and constrained. He is forever pushing against the barriers of mortal imagination, sensing that there is much more to express.


I'm not sure if what I wrote came across clearly.

Purphoros happens to be God of the Forge, in addition to being God of many other things listed directly in his description.  It's clear that the "Forge" happens to be a manifestation of his more root mental and emotional drive towards creativity.

If you were a hedonistic satyr, and you had these five Gods to worship, which would you choose?  Which do you think many hedonists would choose, who generally view sexual expression as physical creativity?  Why wouldn't you worship the God of Creativity who simply happens to also be the God of the Forge?

I think you're getting wrapped up in the idea that the Gods are one-dimensional, when they aren't.  Or maybe you're thinking that satyrs are just simple woodland creatures like squirrels rather than sapient beings that may have ties to both the forests and to creative expression?

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com — A functioning forum

We can desume that because we know the color pie, but the article doesn't talk about different manifestations of the gods, which would make sense to justify why would woodland creatures revere a forge god, when they probably don't even use metal, even less know how to forge it...



Because he represents more than just the forge. You should probably reread their entire domains before you fixate so much on one aspect of their total character.

Besides that, you're also applying real world aspects that don't exist in Theros. That of the aloof god. The Theros pantheon actually DOES manifest directly and interact with their followers. They aren't made up in the same way the gods of Earth are, so they have a much more direct influence on those which choose to pay homage to them.

Maybe the satyrs just dig the passion Purphoros has when he shows up. He's all about creation and destruction, the constant renewal. Even then, we don't know enough about the Satyrs yet, so HOW COULD YOU KNOW what they value yet?

I read the domain completely, what I don't like is exactly that the manifestation, rightly because it should be so real on Theros, actually limits to a forge god. Even liking only part of his domain, or his passion as you say, the aspect of the god would be so alien to the woodland satyrs that they simply could not relate to it IMO.

And satyrs are not being reinvented: we saw satyr hedonists, we saw satyrs in Destructive Revelry. They are the classic satyrs, and the link between them and a god that manifests as a forge god is so forced that I can't understand how can you defend it.


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Sorry if I copy-paste from the other thread, but maybe you guys can enlighten me more on what's there to like here...

"I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 


Well, since the Gods are actually enchantments, it would kind of make since that the embody many different aspects of their color, since enchantments are most closely related to the mana they are made from. So yes, he is the God of Red stuff in a quite literal sense, it is just that the art of tending the forge and other forms of creation and destruction are his chosen forms of expression. THe reason people are excited is because most of the God's chosen forms of expression are different from how we normally see those colors percieved, and it makes them seem like actual characters. 
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
We can desume that because we know the color pie, but the article doesn't talk about different manifestations of the gods, which would make sense to justify why would woodland creatures revere a forge god, when they probably don't even use metal, even less know how to forge it...



Because he represents more than just the forge. You should probably reread their entire domains before you fixate so much on one aspect of their total character.

Besides that, you're also applying real world aspects that don't exist in Theros. That of the aloof god. The Theros pantheon actually DOES manifest directly and interact with their followers. They aren't made up in the same way the gods of Earth are, so they have a much more direct influence on those which choose to pay homage to them.

Maybe the satyrs just dig the passion Purphoros has when he shows up. He's all about creation and destruction, the constant renewal. Even then, we don't know enough about the Satyrs yet, so HOW COULD YOU KNOW what they value yet?

I read the domain completely, what I don't like is exactly that the manifestation, rightly because it should be so real on Theros, actually limits to a forge god. Even liking only part of his domain, or his passion as you say, the aspect of the god would be so alien to the woodland satyrs that they simply could not relate to it IMO.

And satyrs are not being reinvented: we saw satyr hedonists, we saw satyrs in Destructive Revelry. They are the classic satyrs, and the link between them and a god that manifests as a forge god is so forced that I can't understand how can you defend it.



The Planeswalker guide mentions Purphosos' perchant for massive ruination, perhaps the satyrs see him in the flames of their bonfire or other acts of great destruction. 
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
I read the domain completely, what I don't like is exactly that the manifestation, rightly because it should be so real on Theros, actually limits to a forge god. Even liking only part of his domain, or his passion as you say, the aspect of the god would be so alien to the woodland satyrs that they simply could not relate to it IMO.

And satyrs are not being reinvented: we saw satyr hedonists, we saw satyrs in Destructive Revelry. They are the classic satyrs, and the link between them and a god that manifests as a forge god is so forced that I can't understand how can you defend it.


He's a God of Passion, of Fire, of Chaos, of Expression, of Molten Destruction, of Ornate Jewelry (probably the God of Fabergé Eggs, even -- which he then destroys in a fit of rage over them not being expressive enough before remaking them) -- I'm not sure I see how the satyrs we've seen, or even classical satyrs, wouldn't provide at least some offering to him above the other four (or at least equal to Nylea).

Hedonist satyrs like things hot, as one might be inclined to say.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com — A functioning forum

Well, since the Gods are actually enchantments, it would kind of make since that the embody many different aspects of their color, since enchantments are most closely related to the mana they are made from. So yes, he is the God of Red stuff in a quite literal sense, it is just that the art of tending the forge and other forms of creation and destruction are his chosen forms of expression. THe reason people are excited is because most of the God's chosen forms of expression are different from how we normally see those colors percieved, and it makes them seem like actual characters. 

Ok, now I can state other points I don't like or I find underwhelming. As you say, they are basically the gods of a color. Lame concept to me. As you say, the represent colors' aspect that we normally don't see, but I always *perceived those aspects, so that basically doesn't impress me. They're like actual characters yes, and this contrasts a lot with their nature of embodiments of a mana color. It basically really feels cheesy to me. I guessed very soon that it was going to be very difficult for me to like a set with "greek flavor". You *have* to make things cheesy to do this.

Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

It basically really feels cheesy to me. I guessed very soon that it was going to be very difficult for me to like a set with "greek flavor". You *have* to make things cheesy to do this.



So, what you're essentially saying is that you didn't really want to like Theros to start with... in which case, I really have to question why you wanted to come here and tell us that you are disappointed in a setting that you're against in the first place.
We're not going to convince you, you've already made up your mind to dislike it.
It basically really feels cheesy to me. I guessed very soon that it was going to be very difficult for me to like a set with "greek flavor". You *have* to make things cheesy to do this.



So, what you're essentially saying is that you didn't really want to like Theros to start with... in which case, I really have to question why you wanted to come here and tell us that you are disappointed in a setting that you're against in the first place.
We're not going to convince you, you've already made up your mind to dislike it.

No, I was dubious. But i said I was underwhelmed. That means my expectations were not met. I thought "Ok, they will come up with something really cool if they really want to use Greek flavor in Magic. I mean that sounds difficult to do without resorting to really cheesy cliches, so they must have come up with something amazing." - So no, I didn't have negative prejudice, the opposite. And I'll be much happier if I'll end up liking Theros. More fun for me, why shouldn't I? What I see so far is laughable though.


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
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Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

No, I was dubious. But i said I was underwhelmed. That means my expectations were not met. I thought "Ok, they will come up with something really cool if they really want to use Greek flavor in Magic. I mean that sounds difficult to do without resorting to really cheesy cliches, do they must have come up with something amazing." - So no, I didn't have negative prejudice, the opposite.


Regardless, you certainly seem intent on disliking it now. Again, we still aren't going to change your mind, it's already made up.

As MaRo is fond of saying: "This set just isn't for you."

No, I was dubious. But i said I was underwhelmed. That means my expectations were not met. I thought "Ok, they will come up with something really cool if they really want to use Greek flavor in Magic. I mean that sounds difficult to do without resorting to really cheesy cliches, do they must have come up with something amazing." - So no, I didn't have negative prejudice, the opposite.


Regardless, you certainly seem intent on disliking it now. Again, we still aren't going to change your mind, it's already made up.

As MaRo is fond of saying: "This set just isn't for you."


Assumptions and more assumptions. I'll again copy-paste from the other thread:
"Have you read the actual Greek mythology or even just wikipedia pages about the gods? I can assure you they're far *less* monodimensional than these.
I'm going with an open mind here and I still can't see how they can *not* screw it up after this!  Well, don't want to ruin the fun anyway, glad to see that Wizards will apparently make money on this one too."


Join the Zendikar D&D Campaign Setting group: discover the fantastic world and contribute to make Zendikar a playable setting!
   - Warning! Spectacular visuals and lore ahead! ... Take a look...
Play-by-Post and my D&D blogging!

*All my latest rolls!*

Campaigns and Characters:
Zendikar: Covenant of The Forgotten Relics
- Cylonea: Merfolk (Elemental Priest) Shaman(World Speaker)/Artificer --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff
- Vurokk Dahvre: Shade (Escaped Slave) Blackguard of Fury --> Sheet, Obsidian Portal's, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)
Nature's Allies
- Carwyn Sihderfein: Half-Elf (Tuathan) Blackguard of Domination / Binder of Gloom --> Sheet, Fluff, Blogs (1, 2)

Sorry if I copy-paste from the other thread, but maybe you guys can enlighten me more on what's there to like here...

"I don't know if I'm more underwhelmed by the flavor (completely cliche, if any flavor at all) or by seeing many react positively to this kind of stuff. Diversity of opinions and tastes is good and all, but I expected a different reaction from Magic players, to what is just a plain deification of the color pie, with obvious Greek cliches attached. I would rather buy an artbook than the actual cards, even in the case mechanics turn out to be awesome. Because playing with the cards I would be too frustrated thinking how those good mechanics could have been matched to original and deep flavor instead of this. And even with the art, all those which represent the gods and their weapons would remind me the abscence of creativity of the flavor so much, that I would close the artbook and throw it away. I'd have to dodge those illustrations to actually enjoy the rest...

To those enjoying Greek stuff AND enjoying this, can you explain me how can you see compelling the link of the god of the forge with arts such as music, plus hedonism and satyrs? It really stinks of "oh, we have to give him these aspects of Red too, because we have satyrs who are hedonists, so yeah". I'm nauseated." 




Besides the rather narrow world perspective already pointed out above, I'm really curious about what you conisder "cliches". Artemis barely appears in greek myth based media, Hades is always depicted as Satan, Apollon is never connected to his judicial side, et cetera.


What narrow world perspective? Please explain. Maybe it's because in Italy everybody knows that Hades was completely different from Satan, everybody knows Artemis, and I'm pretty sure Apollon never had a judicial side. (Cite sources?)




You whine about satyrs venerating a smith god on the basis on superficial dichotomy, and that the gods aren't carbon copies.

As for the other query: Apollon's freacking Orphic Hymn as well as the play Oresteia, for starters. As well as most of his cultus: we best remember him as the god of music and prophecy, but to the hellenes he was more widely acknowledged as the averter of plague as well as the deliverer of divine justice. Both he and Zeus are prophetic gods and justice deliverers, after all.
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