goyf, a problem in extended

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Now, this is isn't one of those useless spam post saying goyf is overpowered and needs to be banned.... it is really saying tarmgoyf is bad for the because is prevents many of wood-be players from entering without shelling out the 140$ for goyf. Alot of players have a fairly decent collection of extended cards they've just picked up over the the years, but not alot of people ever picked up a set of goyfs unless they were determined to win a PTQ or something. I think formats are healthiest when many players and access to them and the meta game is so diverse that no one SB can cover it all. goyf prevents a level i diversity that extended could have.

sadly banning goyf is not the solution seeing as many players already do indeed have that 35$ card and would be furious to see it banned. what do you think would be a good solution?

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There are a lot of archetypes that don't play Goyf and he's pretty easily replaceable in most archetypes that do use him. Obviously if you want to play competitively and seriously you should buy a playset if your deck calls for it but otherwise it's not a big deal at all.
Playing Magic competitively takes money. Banning Goyf or reprinting it as an uncommon or whatever would do nothing to change this.

Also, saying that Goyf prevents Extended from being diverse is a ridiculously ignorant statement. In fact, Extended is one of the most diverse formats.
Playing Magic competitively takes money. Banning Goyf or reprinting it as an uncommon or whatever would do nothing to change this.

Also, saying that Goyf prevents Extended from being diverse is a ridiculously ignorant statement. In fact, Extended is one of the most diverse formats.

qft
I'd love an Extended without Goyf, and I have 5 copies, but I doubt we'll see that. Buy him or play one of the many decks were he's not needed if you're cheap/poor.
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There are plenty of good decks in Extended that don't require a Goyf playset.

At least it's not like Legacy where 80% of the decks run Goyf.
At least it's not like Legacy where 80% of the decks run Goyf.

I'm sure it's not nearly this high. And it's just smart to run Goyf in any green deck. Playing green and not running Goyf is like sticking your hand in the oven and grabbing a hot pan without a glove.
There are a lot of archetypes that don't play Goyf and he's pretty easily replaceable in most archetypes that do use him. Obviously if you want to play competitively and seriously you should buy a playset if your deck calls for it but otherwise it's not a big deal at all.

Easily replaceable? Really? What card(s) can I replace him with? Can I run BOTH? :D

I'm sure it's not nearly this high. And it's just smart to run Goyf in any green deck. Playing green and not running Goyf is like sticking your hand in the oven and grabbing a hot pan without a glove.

Correction - any green deck that wants to attack with fatties. It's quite possible to build a control deck with green that doesn't necessarily want him.
Correction - any green deck that wants to attack with fatties. It's quite possible to build a control deck with green that doesn't necessarily want him.

Hmm. UG Tron, I suppose. NLU and The Rock both play Goyf.
UG tron plays goyf too.
UG tron plays goyf too.

UG Tron definitely doesn't play Goyf, but people don't play UG Tron either.
I found one UG Tron list on deckcheck.net, and it didn't play Goyf. I do remember Goyf being played in the sideboard of some Tron decks last season, though.
I found one UG Tron list on deckcheck.net, and it didn't play Goyf. I do remember Goyf being played in the sideboard of some Tron decks last season, though.

Maybe, but in general, Tron wasn't played that much this season, and in general, people don't play Tarmogoyfs in Tron. The goyfs in the sideboard aren't something very common either, I've seen it only once.
Maybe, but in general, Tron wasn't played that much this season, and in general, people don't play Tarmogoyfs in Tron. The goyfs in the sideboard aren't something very common either, I've seen it only once.

Uh... really, do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Cards aren't banned because they get too expensive. I think banning a card because it is worth too much money would create so many problems the format and the entire game of magic would be worse off. Decks can win without goyf he just makes your deck better. Also there are good decks that don't run goyf so people who can't afford 4x goyf can play those or just use something else instead of goyf.
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I find jitte more of an issue. goyf, while more expensive, requires the player to make certain color commitments, while jitte can be played in any deck.
Tron might not see much play any more, but it (and other G control decks) could be played by anyone who doesn't have Goyf, and those decks can be quite good.

I find jitte more of an issue. goyf, while more expensive, requires the player to make certain color commitments, while jitte can be played in any deck.

True, but again, any deck without many creatures (or without early creatures) won't play Jitte.
Goyf isn't it. My lack of money is the real problem.
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Goyf isn't it. My lack of money is the real problem.

This.
Uh... really, do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Yes, I do.
To sum up my thoughts on this issue once again:

4*Goyf = 100$ = no problem. Anyone can get a playset of Goyfs if they really want them. The end.

Top 10 most played cards in Extended:
# 2741 Island
# 2485 Tarmogoyf
# 2106 Windswept Heath
# 1832 Forest
# 1804 Wooded Foothills
# 1775 Mountain
# 1672 Umezawa's Jitte
# 1602 Spell Snare
# 1535 Polluted Delta
# 1523 Flooded Strand
= A problem.
To sum up my thoughts on this issue once again:

4*Goyf = 100$ = no problem. Anyone can get a playset of Goyfs if they really want them. The end.

Top 10 most played cards in Extended:
# 2741 Island
# 2485 Tarmogoyf
# 2106 Windswept Heath
# 1832 Forest
# 1804 Wooded Foothills
# 1775 Mountain
# 1672 Umezawa's Jitte
# 1602 Spell Snare
# 1535 Polluted Delta
# 1523 Flooded Strand
= A problem.

Well, Island clearly has to go.
The end is always nigh.
To sum up my thoughts on this issue once again:

4*Goyf = 100$ = no problem. Anyone can get a playset of Goyfs if they really want them. The end.

Top 10 most played cards in Extended:
# 2741 Island
# 2485 Tarmogoyf
# 2106 Windswept Heath
# 1832 Forest
# 1804 Wooded Foothills
# 1775 Mountain
# 1672 Umezawa's Jitte
# 1602 Spell Snare
# 1535 Polluted Delta
# 1523 Flooded Strand
= A problem.

You might want to remove those numbers as they make no sense without the deckcheck reference.

:P
They see me trollin', they hatin'. Only 31.0% of the playerbase actually prefers Standard to the other formats, yet it is the format that gets the most attention. PATHETIC. If you had millions of loyal customers who adore and admire you, and you could raise your middle finger at them, wouldn't you? **** YOU TOO, WIZARDS. You are Red/Blue!
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Well, Island clearly has to go.

Everyone knows Island is the most broken card in any format[/oldjoke]

You might want to remove those numbers as they make no sense without the deckcheck reference.

:P

I just assumed people would get it. Silly. To clarify: the numbers are taken from deckcheck.net
To sum up my thoughts on this issue once again:

4*Goyf = 100$ = no problem. Anyone can get a playset of Goyfs if they really want them. The end.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not paying $100 for 4 pieces of cardboard.

Of course, in my case, I made sure to trade for as many Goyfs as I could when Future Sight was first released... so I'm sitting on a stack of about 12 of them right now.
This is silly conversation, Goyf isn't even that good anymore-- without the fetchlands he is consitently -1/-1 making him still decent but not omgwtf gigantic. Probably comes out of the gate in bolt range most of the time now, the dreaded goyf won't be the ultimate house that he used to be.

If he really irks you that much just play faeries and run md threads of disloyalty, a $2.00 card, and relish in the joy of stealing other people's goyfs and killing them with em.
To sum up my thoughts on this issue once again:

4*Goyf = 100$ = no problem. Anyone can get a playset of Goyfs if they really want them. The end.

That's an awfully ignorant perspective.
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That's an awfully ignorant perspective.

How so?
I'm going to agree with bastow on this one. Anyone going to a tournament seriously will have invested much more than $100 in their deck, and many of them probably invested about that much on just getting one playset of cards, much like they would with goyf.

Goyf is a good card but is in no way format warping. Goyf is hit by almost every single spot removal in the format, if you can't find something in your color to kill it, splash. If it's really giving you that much trouble and you're not playing tournaments, ask your playgroup not to use it. If that still doesn't work then just play standard instead, where Goyf will no longer be usable in a couple months.

Goyf is not a card like disciple of the vault that basically forced everyone to either play affinity, or specifically play against it. Or like vial that forced every control deck to play MD artifact hate so they didn't auto-lose game one to aggro, and made aggro decks much more consistent and able to dodge removal by playing anything they want EOT.

I have no problems with goyf at all, smothers and threads have made sure I don't have problems with it.
This is silly conversation, Goyf isn't even that good anymore-- without the fetchlands he is consitently -1/-1 making him still decent but not omgwtf gigantic. Probably comes out of the gate in bolt range most of the time now, the dreaded goyf won't be the ultimate house that he used to be.

If he really irks you that much just play faeries and run md threads of disloyalty, a $2.00 card, and relish in the joy of stealing other people's goyfs and killing them with em.

o.0 Goyf is played in every format he is legal. I would say he is that good.
How so?

If $100 dollars is not a problem to me or the several to hundreds of other people I know, then it is not a problem for anyone.



And to forestall anybody from wrongly assuming that I think that Goyf's price is the problem, I don't. It's just that ignorant ripostes to complaints that Goyf costs too much do not resolve the issue at all; they often just aggravate the situation.
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If $100 dollars is not a problem to me or the several to hundreds of other people I know, then it is not a problem for anyone.



And to forestall anybody from wrongly assuming that I think that Goyf's price is the problem, I don't. It's just that ignorant ripostes to complaints that Goyf costs too much do not resolve the issue at all; they often just aggravate the situation.

You still haven't explained why my opinion is ignorant. You just made an empty postulate. An average 12-year old could save up the hundred dollars with ease. It's a case of not wanting it bad enough if you aren't able to. If you can't save up a 100 $, then you aren't in a posistion to have a somewhat expensive hobby anyway. I'm not saying that because I think it's cool to say, quite the opposite actually, but it does hold true. Whether you have to spend 1000$ or 1100$ doesn't matter that much.
You still haven't explained why my opinion is ignorant. You just made an empty postulate. An average 12-year old could save up the hundred dollars with ease. It's a case of not wanting it bad enough if you aren't able to. If you can't save up a 100 $, then you aren't in a posistion to have a somewhat expensive hobby anyway. I'm not saying that because I think it's cool to say, quite the opposite actually, but it does hold true. Whether you have to spend 1000$ or 1100$ doesn't matter that much.

Now that I've had some time to really think about it, I think my response was a knee-jerk reaction against the "no problem" almost flippantly tacked on at the end, so really I quite agree with you after I thought about what you were really saying.

I'm in a position right now where 100 USD is quite a big deal of money since one of my parents is out of a job and I've loads of student loans awaiting payment, yet it is definitely not impossible for me to save a bit here and there and get a set of Goyfs in a month or two. The money isn't really the problem but rather just a matter of wanting it enough, as you've said. It is, however, a problem if the money spent on Goyf should have been spent elsewhere (say, rent) and you've unwisely spent it on cards.
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Rules Advisor Don't assume I have read any response you might have made directed toward me in a thread or post. The best method to contact me is Private Message as I will always check there upon logging on Please review the Code of Conduct or the Comprehensive Rules when in doubt. Also, please use Google for your easy-to-answer questions. Read this for a bit on game mathematics. This is information on game psychology and the infamous term "scrub." Autocard:
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Start playing limited or buy budget decks.
You still haven't explained why my opinion is ignorant. You just made an empty postulate. An average 12-year old could save up the hundred dollars with ease. It's a case of not wanting it bad enough if you aren't able to. If you can't save up a 100 $, then you aren't in a posistion to have a somewhat expensive hobby anyway. I'm not saying that because I think it's cool to say, quite the opposite actually, but it does hold true. Whether you have to spend 1000$ or 1100$ doesn't matter that much.

Average 12 year old doesn't have a mortgage, car payments, and other bills.

But that's ok I can see your next response..

"You need to rethink your priorities then!"
Jobs r gud
You still haven't explained why my opinion is ignorant. You just made an empty postulate. An average 12-year old could save up the hundred dollars with ease. It's a case of not wanting it bad enough if you aren't able to. If you can't save up a 100 $, then you aren't in a posistion to have a somewhat expensive hobby anyway. I'm not saying that because I think it's cool to say, quite the opposite actually, but it does hold true. Whether you have to spend 1000$ or 1100$ doesn't matter that much.

Honestly though, there is really no reason that anybody should be spending hundreds of dollars on just a few cards.

This game should be playable with less expensive cards. There shouldn't be like, a playset of cards you absolutely NEED to be competitive... It would be a healthier game if you could make competitive decks from a wider variety of cards.
It would be a healthier game if you could make competitive decks from a wider variety of cards.

Go tell that to MaRo and his cronies instead. I doubt he (Bastow) or anyone else here disagrees with your opinion about too expensive cards (I can even reveal the stunning fact that Bastow himself doesn't have a playset of Tarmogoyfs), but every game has its flaws, and here's it's the clash of "rare" cards being needed by just about everyone (oh, and a bunch of **** suckers buying more of a card than they need to inflate the prices).
They see me trollin', they hatin'. Only 31.0% of the playerbase actually prefers Standard to the other formats, yet it is the format that gets the most attention. PATHETIC. If you had millions of loyal customers who adore and admire you, and you could raise your middle finger at them, wouldn't you? **** YOU TOO, WIZARDS. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what you create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
There's also Wizard's option of making really good counter cards against Goyf. I'm not sure if there's a good way to punish his use though that wouldn't be overpowered in itself.

Anyways I think Goofy would have been perfectly costed at 1GG:. I don't know why they thought 2 mana would have been fine, but alas it is too late to change it now.
The solution is easy if you can't afford goyfs. Play non goyf decks. It's not like goyf decks are dominating the format. Yeah they are top tier but so are other decks. Yes I am one who can't afford goyf. I don't support banning it, I support playing other decks.
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