Post-Rotation Format Discussion

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Discuss the post-Onslaught Extended format here.



[deck=Faeries by gamegeek2]
6 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Secluded Glen
2 Underground River/Swamp

4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Removal Spells/Control Magics
[/deck]

[deck=Bant Aggro-Control by gamegeek2]
22 Lands

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Meddling Mage
3 Mana Leak/Qasali Pridemage
4 Bant Charm
2 Spell Snare
3 Umezawa's Jitte
[/deck]

[deck=Doran by gamegeek2]
15 Other Lands
4 Treetop Village
4 Murmuring Bosk

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler/Qasali Pridemage
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Hierarch

4 Thoughtseize
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile/Pridemage/Sculler
2 Profane Command/Pridemage/Sculler
[/deck]

[deck=Burn by gamegeek2]
21 Mountain

4 Spark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Ball Lightning

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Incinerate
3 Flames of the Blood Hand
[/deck]

[deck=Death Cloud by mntwinsfan]
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Twilight Mire
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Treetop Village
2 Golgari Rot-Farm
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
2 Forest

4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness

4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
3 Death Cloud
3 Damnation
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Putrefy
2 Crime//Punishment
[/deck]

[deck=Naya Zoo by mntwinsfan]
23 Land
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Mountain
4 Plains
3 Forest

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wooly Thoctar
3-4 Keldon Marauders/Teeg/Canonist/Pridemage
3 Ranger of Eos

4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2-3 Umezawa's Jitte
[/deck]

Though it's lost fetchlands, Naya Zoo will definitely continue to be a player.

[deck=Affinity by gamegeek2]
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
2 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer

4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Chromatic Star
2 Fatal Frenzy/Soul's Fire
[/deck]

The obvious...

[deck=Dragonstorm by gamegeek2]

4 Island
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
3 Cascade Bluffs
3 Dreadship Reef
2 Mountain

4 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Hellkite Overlord
1 Karrthus, Dragon Tyrant

4 Peer through Depths
4 Ponder
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Remand
4 Dragonstorm
[/deck]

Dragonstorm comes with some baggage, but it's a 9 mana Desire that will always win you the game.

[deck=Dredge by mntwinsfan]
15 Land

26 Creatures
4 Magus of the Bazaar
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug/Darkblast
3 Fatestitcher
2 Mulldrifter
1 Angel of Despair
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

19 Other Spells
4 Chrome Mox
4 Bridge From Below
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Dread Return[/deck]

Actually, I'm not sure if Chrome Mox will be needed in Dredge. The format will be slowing down, after all.

[deck=Dragonstorm by mntwinsfan]
23 Land
4 Steam Vents
4 Shivan Reef
4 Cascade Bluffs
3 Calciform Pools
8 Other

5 Creatures
4 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Hellkite Overlord/whatever

32 Other Spells
4 Ponder
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Dragonstorm
4 Remand[/deck]

This one is obviously very rough; I haven't really done any testing with Dragonstorm. In theory, though, it seems like it could do very well. Consistent turn 4, sometimes 5, kill, with plenty of good options for protection.
Dragonstorm will probably want a sideboard plan of Warrens, etc.

Goblin Lore is very, very good in Dredge.

You need a backup loot effect.
Dragonstorm will probably want a sideboard plan of Warrens, etc.

Goblin Lore is very, very good in Dredge.

You need a backup loot effect.

Goblin Lore is fine, but it's hard to support a third color.

Like Merfolk Looter? What would you take out for it?
I was thinking Drowned Rusalka, as it lets you discard then dredge, or get rid of dudes for draw.

Black isn't that necessary to the deck, unless you intend to hard-cast Dread Return, etc.
you can pretty much pull off monoU dredge if you use the Rusalka. (I cobbled together my list for the last ptq I played in, and ended up with a manabase of like 12 Island, 4 gemstone mine and it played fine.)
I was thinking Drowned Rusalka, as it lets you discard then dredge, or get rid of dudes for draw.

Black isn't that necessary to the deck, unless you intend to hard-cast Dread Return, etc.

That would work.

You might be right, actually. I guess the real question is if Goblin Lore is better than Glimpse the Unthinkable.
you can pretty much pull off monoU dredge if you use the Rusalka. (I cobbled together my list for the last ptq I played in, and ended up with a manabase of like 12 Island, 4 gemstone mine and it played fine.)

Could I see your decklist?

That would work.

You might be right, actually. I guess the real question is if Goblin Lore is better than Glimpse the Unthinkable.

I think Lore is better only because I don't feel like dishing out 9$ each for glimpse. I'm even more apprehensive about investing in Glimpse because it seems it's falling out of favor.

My friend won an extended tourny awhile ago with dragonstorm. He beat stuff like affinity, burn, slide, and some other top tier decks.
True post count: 9,900 Thanks Wotc for not counting archived posts. If I post without capital letters than means I'm posting from my phone. For some reason it hates typing capital letters. Go_Texans on MTGO. Texans 12-4 Wildcard: W Texans 19 Bengals 13 Divisional: L Texans 28 Patriots 41 Another awesome season!
That would work.

You might be right, actually. I guess the real question is if Goblin Lore is better than Glimpse the Unthinkable.

They serve 2 different tasks. Glimpse puts dredgers in your graveyard, a.k.a. sets up the win, and Goblin Lore dredges a LOT of cards, a.k.a. win.
Goblin Lore is the best replacement for Breakthrough available in terms of raw dredging power.
Goblin Lore is the best replacement for Breakthrough available in terms of raw dredging power.

Yah, that's pretty much my way of seeing it. It isn't really a discard outlet (though when you need it to be it hypothetically can be).
Goblin Lore is more powerful than Glimpse the Unthinkable, but you really need Glimpse as a "discard outlet." I could see cutting an Angel of Despair and a Mulldrifter and using a 3/3 split of Goblin Lore and Glimpse.
Dredge and Storm will be the premier combo decks, they are the most consistent available. Unless something stupid comes out in Zendikar.
Dredge and Storm will be the premier combo decks, they are the most consistent available. Unless something stupid comes out in Zendikar.

MTGO is a pretty good microcosm for the tier1 scene and im already seeing a ton cascade decks, a few touting the post-rotation tag as well. I havent played dredge more than one time in the last month or so and I play quite a bit.

I predict D-storm and Cascade to be the mainstay combo decks. Fringe combo might be dredge and Time Sieve variants.
MTGO is a pretty good microcosm for the tier1 scene and im already seeing a ton cascade decks, a few touting the post-rotation tag as well. I havent played dredge more than one time in the last month or so and I play quite a bit.

I predict D-storm and Cascade to be the mainstay combo decks. Fringe combo might be dredge and Time Sieve variants.

The main reason you're not seeing Dredge right now is because it isn't as fast as Elves or TEPS and is hurt by grave hate for Loam decks. After rotation, both of those things will most likely be gone, which is why I think that Dredge will be a solid combo deck.
You know, since the format will be slowing down I kinda wanna bring back the timespiral/ravnica MGA deck. Admittedly I have no idea if its at all viable. But there is that fact that if it works you will be beating decks that have 3 times the rares and cost. That was one of my favorite things to do back when this was legal.

Creatures
4x Giant Solifuge
4x Boggart Ram-gang/Troll Ascetic
4x Dryad Sophisticate
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Llanowar Elves
1-2x Birds of Paradise/Boreal Druid

2-3 Umezawa's Jitte/Keen Sense
2 Stonewood Invocation
4 Blanchwood Armor
4 Moldervine Cloak
4 Giant Growth/Might of Old Krosa

18 forest
2 Treetop Village
1 Pendalhaven
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
The main reason you're not seeing Dredge right now is because it isn't as fast as Elves or TEPS and is hurt by grave hate for Loam decks. After rotation, both of those things will most likely be gone, which is why I think that Dredge will be a solid combo deck.

Could be right about this, im not a dredge expert by any stretch. From a purely deckbuilding standpoint, having dredge on the scene really only impacts the size of your side board though since you cant effectively maindeck protection from dredge. I am at heart a deckbuilder.

Hmm dredge + dstorm + cascade. Aggro decks to have a tough time of things maybe?
@Anon Eon, needs moar Goyf. Best creature in the game, easily the best creature in Extended
Hmm dredge + dstorm + cascade. Aggro decks to have a tough time of things maybe?

It's a possibility, certainly. I think that aggro has enough combo hate (Teeg, Cannonist, Fanatic for Dredge, etc.) to keep combo in check, though.
It's a possibility, certainly. I think that aggro has enough combo hate (Teeg, Cannonist, Fanatic for Dredge, etc.) to keep combo in check, though.

I agree but i think the interesting part of this is that you need different hate for each deck if you are aggro. Aggro decks would probably run Cannonist over Rule of Law, but cannonist is fragile. Teeg doesnt stop cascade. Fanatic is about to get a small nerf so it might be less appealing to play. Meddling Mage can potentially be annoying to all 3 but most aggro decks arent running blue...
I agree but i think the interesting part of this is that you need different hate for each deck if you are aggro. Aggro decks would probably run Cannonist over Rule of Law, but cannonist is fragile. Teeg doesnt stop cascade. Fanatic is about to get a small nerf so it might be less appealing to play. Meddling Mage can potentially be annoying to all 3 but most aggro decks arent running blue...

I was thinking Teeg maindeck because it's good against Dredge and Dragonstorm, and you bring in Canonists against Storm and Cascade. I probably won't be playing Mogg Fanatic maindeck, but if Dredge or another graveyard-based deck becomes popular I'll have either it or Crypt/Relic in the board.
Soooooo hey everyone! I'm not dead. What happened to extended? Seriously the last deckcheck post-alara reborn tournament I looked at had 2 cascade decks and a bunch of R/W!!!

I'm really looking forward the rotation. I really feel like Dredge is going to be viable deck again which excited me beyond belief.
Soooooo hey everyone! I'm not dead. What happened to extended? Seriously the last deckcheck post-alara reborn tournament I looked at had 2 cascade decks and a bunch of R/W!!!

I'm really looking forward the rotation. I really feel like Dredge is going to be viable deck again which excited me beyond belief.

Indeed, it's a pretty fast deck, much faster than the post-rotation format.
@Anon Eon, needs moar Goyf. Best creature in the game, easily the best creature in Extended

Eh depends on what you put him in, MGA could theoretically put him in but all he is is a big body, he does not quasi fly, he does not land walk, he does not trample, he can be targeted by removal when half the deck can't. Is he aggresive enough that he cant be chump blocked by apes and nactal? I would have to add things to the deck to make him do those things, and while the format will be somewhat slower I would still need to race zoo in some respects. So will he be big enough to be relevent in turn 1-4/5 where MGA is trying to go off? Not really in my book.

I could very well be wrong about how he would apply considering that counters, burn and other things affect him and pump his base stats but to MGA he just another body just sitting there wating for his pump spell to make him relevant when other cards can do what he does that much better in this deck.
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
That would work.

You might be right, actually. I guess the real question is if Goblin Lore is better than Glimpse the Unthinkable.

Sorry for the double post, but I had to post my 2 cents since I'm a huge Dredge player. I think Goblin Lore is 10000x better than glimpse. Goblin Lore allows for Draw, Dredging, AND dumping cards into the graveyard. Glimpse only does one of those.



EDIT: Guess this wasn't a double post afterall. Wow these boards have really picked up some steam in posts!
Eh depends on what you put him in, MGA could theoretically put him in but all he is is a big body, he does not quasi fly, he does not land walk, he does not trample, he can be targeted by removal when half the deck can't. Is he aggresive enough that he cant be chump blocked by apes and nactal? I would have to add things to the deck to make him do those things, and while the format will be somewhat slower I would still need to race zoo in some respects. So will he be big enough to be relevent in turn 1-4/5 where MGA is trying to go off? Not really in my book.

I could very well be wrong about how he would apply considering that counters, burn and other things affect him and pump his base stats but to MGA he just another body just sitting there wating for his pump spell to make him relevant when other cards can do what he does that much better in this deck.

Lol at discussing whether Tarmogoyf is dominant or not. Also, read my sig.
Lol at discussing whether Tarmogoyf is dominant or not. Also, read my sig.

Can we have an auto-ban policy for anyone who does not recognize Goyf as king of magic?
Sorry for the double post, but I had to post my 2 cents since I'm a huge Dredge player. I think Goblin Lore is 10000x better than glimpse. Goblin Lore allows for Draw, Dredging, AND dumping cards into the graveyard. Glimpse only does one of those.

I guess that settles it, then. When it comes to Dredge, I'll just listen to you.

Welcome back, by the way.
Can we have an auto-ban policy for anyone who does not recognize Goyf as king of magic?

please tell me your joking? While I freely admit that goyf in 98% of all decks is a good choice, you know there ARE decks out there that see him more as in the way, than needful.
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
This is the thread to talk about post-ZEN Extended, right? Because I don't feel like making a new thread.

What does everyone think of the new duals? For reference:

Ally Colored Duals

Land Name (R)
Land
~ comes into play tapped unless you control a (C basic land type) or (D basic land type).
: Add C or D to your mana pool.


It's only an ally-color cycle, which is kinda lame, but the lands themselves aren't too bad with Shocklands around. They're no fetchlands but they'll make do.
This is the thread to talk about post-ZEN Extended, right? Because I don't feel like making a new thread.

What does everyone think of the new duals? For reference:

Ally Colored Duals

Land Name (R)
Land
~ comes into play tapped unless you control a (C basic land type) or (D basic land type).
: Add C or D to your mana pool.


It's only an ally-color cycle, which is kinda lame, but the lands themselves aren't too bad with Shocklands around. They're no fetchlands but they'll make do.

I think it could go one of two ways for lands.

1- Shock + New Zend Duals

2- Pain + Lorwyn Duals.

The domain users will go the first route possibly. Pain + Lorwyn duals is 99% as good as fetch + shock already when you look at the way things average out. It might be possible to mix and match duals from all over the place and get the same net effect. More duals = the better imo.
No one's going to use the painlands if there are shocklands around.
No one's going to use the painlands if there are shocklands around.

Umm why not? Pain + lorwyn lands is pretty darn good at mana fixing 3 colors at least. I know this cuz I use them already even though I have all the fetch and shocklands.

I dont consider it "jank/budget" to use something thats just as effective as a more expensive alternative...

In fat you could even make the case that its better than the shock due to the gross life loss these lands create.
No one's going to use the painlands if there are shocklands around.

Is this an acceptable mana base?

10 * Island
9 * Swamp
4 * Watery Grave

Pain (and some filters) will be played.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
It all depends on the deck. Shocklands, filters, pains, and M10 duals will all be played to some extent.
It all depends on the deck. Shocklands, filters, pains, and M10 duals will all be played to some extent.

Ahh filter thats what those lands are called. Yes filters are great but in small quantities. Best when mixed with some pains also work fine with basics usually. The nice thing about the filers is that a lot of times you can get an advantage in life total.
I forgot for a moment that we were talking about post-ZEN.

Filters will definitely be played because they're very good at fixing mana for cards that need multiple instances of colored mana.

Pains will most likely only be played in addition to shocks which are strictly better.
Pains will most likely only be played in addition to shocks which are strictly better.

Overstatement by a long shot, but yes, they will most likely be played in addition to.

p.s. Filters will not be a first pick. The lack of a turn one play can hurt quite a few decks.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
p.s. Filters will not be a first pick. The lack of a turn one play can hurt quite a few decks.

Oh, most definitely. They're still very good at producing RW for Helix or WW for WoG though.

And that bit about the shock/painlands isn't a gross overstatement; if you tap for colored mana three or more times with a painland it's worse than a shockland. At two taps it's the same but without basic land types.
The misconception that shocks are stictly better than duals comes from when Ravinca first came out and Zoo was the first deck to seriously take advantage of Domain effects. In that instance, in that deck, yes shock lands were strictly better when COMBINED with fetch.

Fetch are finally gone, theres no reason to keep touting shocklands as "strictly better" than painlands any more, and Im not entirely convinced they ever were beyond Zoo decks.
Your argument really only addresses the basic land types side of the argument. Taking 3 points of damage is unarguably worse than taking 2 (or even none).

The only time I would ever want a painland over a shockland is if the deck I'm playing against has Sundering Titan.