Post-Rotation Blue

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Post-Rotation, what do you think the deck of choice will be for blue players, Faeries/Wizards or NLU? They both have their advantages and drawbacks, but I really like NLU - mainly for the reason that the fetchland fixing will be gone, and you're going to have to play additional colors to support Explosives anyways (likely red and green).
NLU will be better completely because of the loss of Riptide Lab, which was Faeries only big advantage this season.
NLU will be better completely because of the loss of Riptide Lab, which was Faeries only big advantage this season.

Well... The NLU and Faeries lists were pretty similar (they both played lab), but I do think you're right though.
Well... The NLU and Faeries lists were pretty similar (they both played lab), but I do think you're right though.

Riptide Lab was far more important to Faeries, though.
I'm not sure. There is still no new dramatic permission spell for NLU to make for the loss of Counterspell and Force Spike while Faeries still have the Spellstutter. Maybe the Faeries will turn into a UB Tempo list more reminiscent of Standard (luckily, both decks matchup against Affinity will be far worse without the easiness to splash RG for Grudge).

Without the fetchlands, do you think Vedalken shackles will still be playable?
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
Yah, if Faeries stays it will indeed probably be the UB lists we have seen at the beginning of the season, probably with Bob. The choice will now be between Tarmogoyf and Bob/Bitterblossom
Well... The NLU and Faeries lists were pretty similar (they both played lab), but I do think you're right though.

Riptide Lab was far more important to Faeries, though.

Twins is right. Sure they both ran riptide, but riptide was the true engine which made faeries click. So yes, I agree with both of you and think NLU will be better.

@: javert: What are you talking about? NLU didn't have force spike or counterspell this year anyway...
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I think a Ugw list with Path to Exile will be pretty good. I haven't tested it, but I'm sure there's a way to make the manabase work.

On counters: 4 Mana Leak, 4 Spell Snare, and 2-3 Cryptic Command is great. There's nothing wrong with not having Spellstutter Sprite, especially with Elves most likely leaving the format. M10 or Zendikar could even have something good, though that seems unlikely.
I think a Ugw list with Path to Exile will be pretty good. I haven't tested it, but I'm sure there's a way to make the manabase work.

On counters: 4 Mana Leak, 4 Spell Snare, and 2-3 Cryptic Command is great. There's nothing wrong with not having Spellstutter Sprite, especially with Elves most likely leaving the format. M10 or Zendikar could even have something good, though that seems unlikely.

Fingers crossed for this. I'm kind of bored of Wizards saying, "hey, let's kill classic blue control!" I mean, I understand the need to keep evolving concepts and such, but I miss simpler Draw-Go lists.
Fingers crossed for this. I'm kind of bored of Wizards saying, "hey, let's kill classic blue control!" I mean, I understand the need to keep evolving concepts and such, but I miss simpler Draw-Go lists.

I'm sure they will, if only to keep at least one good counter available in Standard.
I'm sure they will, if only to keep at least one good counter available in Standard.

Yeah, this is probably true. Fortunately, it's unlikely to be Cryptic good. Unfortunately, it's unlikely to be Cryptic good.
Strung together this post-rotation W/U Control list...
That list is missing card draw. You could also either cut three lands or Chrome Mox, as you currently have 29 mana sources. Meloku is definitely good enough to be played alongside Battlegrace Angel.

I don't think that Silence is optimal in the maindeck, to be honest. Great in the sideboard, though.
Strung together this post-rotation W/U Control list...

You don't need that many lands. 24 seems ok. Chrome Mox is card disadvantage. You need draw. There are better choices than battlegrace; ie, goyf. This style of control really isn't very good in the current meta. There are, and will continue to be, too many too fast decks. Otherwise, I would be playing Draw-Go at my next tourney.
You don't need that many lands. 24 seems ok. Chrome Mox is card disadvantage. You need draw. There are better choices than battlegrace; ie, goyf. This style of control really isn't very good in the current meta. There are, and will continue to be, too many too fast decks. Otherwise, I would be playing Draw-Go at my next tourney.

Well... Chrome Mox is fine with TfK, which would fix his need of card draw. And Battlegrace is bad.
Chrome Mox is essential for the speed control needs to keep up in a very fast format like Extended.
Chrome Mox is essential for the speed control needs to keep up in a very fast format like Extended.

Not really. Faeries and NLU did fine without Chrome Mox this season, and the format will most likely be slowing down after rotation.
Um, the synergy between the various Faeries cards is too strong for it NOT to be the most dominant control deck in the format come rotation.

I predict Wizards/Faeries to be #1 for a while. Mistbind/Vendilion/Spellstutter are just too good.
Um, the synergy between the various Faeries cards is too strong for it NOT to be the most dominant control deck in the format come rotation.

I predict Wizards/Faeries to be #1 for a while. Mistbind/Vendilion/Spellstutter are just too good.

Have you been paying attention to Extended recently? NLU has been seeing plenty of play and success, and Faeries is hit harder by the rotation.
Between the 2 I think NLU has a better game right now. Fae is on the decline. The new hotness control deck on the scene is Bant, I would strongly recommend blue mages to look into that deck since it has plenty of room for as many control spells as you need and has some really fun creatures.
Please refrain from personal attacks and flaming, these are violations of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
Please refrain from personal attacks and flaming, these are violations of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

Hold up, who was making personal attacks? mntwins may have been a bit condescending, but he genuinely deos know better.
Perhaps something along this lines of:

4 Breeding Pool
4 Flooded Grove
1 Academy Ruins
15 Other Lands

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Kitchen Finks

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Cryptic Command
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Faeries is likely to return to being a blue-black deck, as it's gonna be an inferior control deck to NLU. And yes, the format will slow significantly, with Storm, Elves, and Zoo all getting dealt severe blows by the rotation.

6 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Secluded Glen
2 Underground River/Swamp

4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Removal Spells/Control Magics

I could see Voidslime seeing play as well.
Faeries is likely to return to being a blue-black deck, as it's gonna be an inferior control deck to NLU. And yes, the format will slow significantly, with Storm, Elves, and Zoo all getting dealt severe blows by the rotation.

6 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
4 Sunken Ruins
4 Secluded Glen
2 Underground River/Swamp

4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Mistbind Clique
3 Vendilion Clique

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Removal Spells/Control Magics

I could see Voidslime seeing play as well.

This looks like a pretty decent post-rotation Faeries. I probably wouldn't be playing Cryptic Command though, and replacing Bitterblossom with Dark Confidant (or playing both).

I wonder if it would be possible to tweak the manabase to play Vedalken Shackles... Maybe something along the lines of:

4 Watery Grave
4 Secluded Glen
11 Island
2 Swamp

It gives you a total of 21 lands, including 10 black mana sources, 19 blue mana sources, and 15 islands. You don't really need any more black than this, because all of your black spells are mana-costed with a single .

The real question is: is it really a better tempo deck than Bant?
Perhaps something along this lines of:

4 Breeding Pool
4 Flooded Grove
1 Academy Ruins
15 Other Lands

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Kitchen Finks

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Cryptic Command
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Looks pretty good. I do think that 4 AV and 4 TfK is overkill, though.

3 Removal Spells/Control Magics

Sower?

This looks like a pretty decent post-rotation Faeries. I probably wouldn't be playing Cryptic Command though, and replacing Bitterblossom with Dark Confidant (or playing both).

I wonder if it would be possible to tweak the manabase to play Vedalken Shackles... Maybe something along the lines of:

4 Watery Grave
4 Secluded Glen
11 Island
2 Swamp

It gives you a total of 21 lands, including 10 black mana sources, 19 blue mana sources, and 15 islands. You don't really need any more black than this, because all of your black spells are mana-costed with a single .

The real question is: is it really a better tempo deck than Bant?

Honestly, I'd rather have Mutavault and a more stable manabase over Vedalken Shackles.

I don't think that Faeries will be better than Bant post-rotation. It may have a few matchups that are better (so it could be better in certain metagames), but overall I feel that Bant will be better.
I agree that 4 AV and 4 TfK is overkill, what should the 4th TFK be?
Isn't Bant more of an Aggro deck?

22 Lands

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Loxodon Hierarch
4 Mana Leak/Qasali Pridemage
4 Bant Charm
3 Spell Snare
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile

While I'm on aggro, here's a deck I think will do quite well

15 Other Lands
4 Treetop Village
4 Murmuring Bosk

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler/Qasali Pridemage
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Hierarch

4 Thoughtseize
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile/Pridemage/Sculler
2 Profane Command/Pridemage/Sculler
I agree that 4 AV and 4 TfK is overkill, what should the 4th TFK be?

Honestly, I don't know. I think that NLU will actually be better off splashing White for Path to Exile. The manabase can handle it, as you wouldn't be playing Shackles with Path.
Isn't Bant more of an Aggro deck?

Bant can take many different forms. Aggro, control, and even that weird control list with 8 mana accelerators that Vizier posted. It's quite good, actually.

While I'm on aggro, here's a deck I think will do quite well

15 Other Lands
4 Treetop Village
4 Murmuring Bosk

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler/Qasali Pridemage
4 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Hierarch

4 Thoughtseize
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Path to Exile/Pridemage/Sculler
2 Profane Command/Pridemage/Sculler

Looks very good. Good job on cutting the mana acceleration; it won't really be needed, IMO.

I think you may want -1 Profane Command +1 Path to Exile. Path is just so good, and you won't have nearly as much mana available as previous incarnations of the deck.
Honestly, I don't know. I think that NLU will actually be better off splashing White for Path to Exile. The manabase can handle it, as you wouldn't be playing Shackles with Path.

I came to the same conclusion but if we start getting into splashing white why not take full advantage of it and run some form of BANT??
Not to be relevent, but you could even call it Bant-Level Blue which has a nice ring to it.

And Tezzerator seems like a killer control deck until Mirrodin rotates out...
Bant isn't a control deck, nor an aggro deck. It's a tempo deck, a.k.a. aggro-control.
Bant isn't a control deck, nor an aggro deck. It's a tempo deck, a.k.a. aggro-control.

I would argue that an aggro-control deck is both aggro and control simultaneously. It's a control deck diluted by aggro components, and an aggro deck bolstered by control elements.
Bant isn't a control deck, nor an aggro deck. It's a tempo deck, a.k.a. aggro-control.

I would argue that the spells are in place to make Bant aggro or control as you want or anything in between I predict as the archetype matures you will end up seeing a couple variant themes ie full control vs aggro control. THey both have their places.
Bant isn't a control deck, nor an aggro deck. It's a tempo deck, a.k.a. aggro-control.

Or, if I may summarize:
Bant isn't a control deck, nor an aggro deck. It's an aggro-control deck.

Unless you meant that it is neither solely an aggro deck nor solely a control deck, this is somewhat contradictory. Either that of aggro-control is very confusingly named.
Or, if I may summarize:


Unless you meant that it is neither solely an aggro deck nor solely a control deck, this is somewhat contradictory. Either that of aggro-control is very confusingly named.

Yah that's what I meant. It's not pure control nor pure aggro.
Yah that's what I meant. It's not pure control nor pure aggro.

But youre ignoring the fact that a competent deck builder CAN make it either pure control or pure aggro or ANYTHING in between to fit his personality perfectly.

There have been a lot of cards over the years that control has always wished it could play and those cards are now finding a home in Bant. Gross cards like Troll Ascetic and Wrath. Cards Like troll cant be stopped with counterspell defenses, and then you get acceleration to boot?! Wtf.com. Troll isnt your style? How about eternal witness in a control deck? Can you say yum?

I sometimes play my standard format bant deck in Extended and it wins all the time. WHy? Because its a pure aggro deck that plays like a Bant colored Zoo deck.
But youre ignoring the fact that a competent deck builder CAN make it either pure control or pure aggro or ANYTHING in between to fit his personality perfectly.

There have been a lot of cards over the years that control has always wished it could play and those cards are now finding a home in Bant. Gross cards like Troll Ascetic and Wrath. Cards Like troll cant be stopped with counterspell defenses, and then you get acceleration to boot?! Wtf.com. Troll isnt your style? How about eternal witness in a control deck? Can you say yum?

I sometimes play my standard format bant deck in Extended and it wins all the time. WHy? Because its a pure aggro deck that plays like a Bant colored Zoo deck.

Of course you can make it into pure control. But then, it isn't really the same deck, it's more like Next-Level Blue. But I do agree that Bant Tempo is probably the deck to go if you want to play Aggro-Control, I haven't tried it yet, but it IS pretty powerful indeed, from what I can see.