AngelFire

104 posts / 0 new
Last post
any ideas on a red white angel deck
any ideas on a red white angel deck

Not really, because there are only two playable angels in the format: Exalted Angel and Lightning Angel, and even Lightning Angel isn't overly good.

Angelfire generally refers to a URW Control deck, not an angel deck.
Yeah angelfire was a URW control deck in RAV/TSP std (originally at least) that maybe ran a little bit more beats than an average control deck. I feel like it would have no chance in extended now. It wouldn't have enough answers for combo, the beats wouldn't do anything, and because of the beats it would have less cards to deal with aggro and the control mirror. In other words, every deck would beat it...
Yeah angelfire was a URW control deck in RAV/TSP std (originally at least) that maybe ran a little bit more beats than an average control deck. I feel like it would have no chance in extended now. It wouldn't have enough answers for combo, the beats wouldn't do anything, and because of the beats it would have less cards to deal with aggro and the control mirror. In other words, every deck would beat it...

Not true. Those colors are good control colors. I have a friend that's running a WUR control deck featuring Firemane Angel+Gifts Ungiven. It's pretty good. I think that a control deck of this kind can be made. It's just gonna take some brain storming. I wouldn't particularly call it an angel deck though.
Not true. Those colors are good control colors. I have a friend that's running a WUR control deck featuring Firemane Angel+Gifts Ungiven. 'Its pretty good. I think that a control deck of this kind can be made. It's just gonna take some brain storming. I wouldn't particularly call it an angel deck though.

Enigmata and I are talking about making Angelfire for Extended right now, actually. I'll try to get a list up tonight or tomorrow.
Enigmata and I are talking about making Angelfire for Extended right now, actually. I'll try to get a list up tonight or tomorrow.

That would be awesome. I'll get my friends list. It's pretty good.
Enigmata and I are talking about making Angelfire for Extended right now, actually. I'll try to get a list up tonight or tomorrow.

This definitely sounds like something I'll be following/contributing to. It sounds like a sweet idea.
That would be awesome. I'll get my friends list. It's pretty good.

I'm interested to see how he used Gifts effectively; I've been thinking about that myself.
Note that i didn't mean that a RWU control deck wasn't viable. I said that a traditional angelfire deck, as used in RAV/TSP std, is not viable. I am interested to see your deck though MnT. Get it up quick!
I had the idea for a deck with Zur's Weirding + Firemanes for a lock, a while back.
I had the idea for a deck with Zur's Weirding + Firemanes for a lock, a while back.

Well there was 2004(?) Worlds with akira asahara playing that sick zur's+enduring ideal deck. With form of the dragon as the win-con. The cool thing about form is unless your opponent can deal more than 5 damage with his stuff on the board, he can't win.
I had the idea for a deck with Zur's Weirding + Firemanes for a lock, a while back.

A buddy of mine runs a Zur's Firemane deck. It has Honden of Cleasing Fire to complete the lock if Firemane is not available. He is also running Searing Meditation to finish out the removal package. Now its morefo a casual deck but you might be able to tune a deck like this to fight the meta.
You do have a ton of good new red and white cards you could try to add in.
3 Eternal Dragon
3 Firemane Angel/Exalted Angel

4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Wrath of God
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lightning Helix
4 Remand/Mana Leak
3 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives

2 Steam Vents
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
3 Island
2 Mountain

Rough sketch... thoughts?

Edit: got rid of the 8th Chrome Mox...
57860688 wrote:
121183109 wrote:
57074928 wrote:
So when UR Delver came out to win a GP, did Christian Calcano email/call you and thank you personally, or was there just a mutual understanding?
Legitimately laughed at this...haha
No kidding. +1 internets for a hidden gem in the standard deck help.
Gifts seems pretty underwhelming; also, it's brokenness quotient is too low.
I you want to keep Gifts, I would go for a singleton Firemane and two Exalted. Or maybe 2 Eternal, 1 Firemane and 3 Exalted. I would also include a Firespout, so you can pull off the 'gifts for three sweepers move' that was, in my opinion, one of the better features in Chapin's Gifts deck. Angelfire could also be a home for Scepter with both Mana Leak and Helix there already.
I have been working on a Lightning/Trinket Angel variant for a while now, but I'm not sure if it would fit in with the metagame. Tell me what you guys think:

4x Lightning Angel
3x Trinket Mage
3x Vendilion Clique

4x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
2x Stifle
3x Firespout
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Lightning Helix

2x Chalice of the Void
1x Pithing Needle
2x Engineered Explosives

24 Lands including Riptide Laboratory
Enigmata: When I was testing the list similar to yours that I showed you a few days ago, I found that EE was usually better than Wrath. I recommend switching the numbers.

If you keep Gifts:
-1 Wog or EE if you make the switch, +1 Firespout.
Use a 3-2-1 setup for finishers so you can have Firemane Angel.
3 Eternal Dragon
1 Firemane Angel
2 Exalted Angel

4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Wrath of God
1 Firespout
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
2 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
3 Engineered Explosives

2 Steam Vents
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Academy Ruins

3 Chalice of the Void
1 Wrath of God
2 Stifle
4 Canonist
2 Isochron Scepter
3 Something...?

Changed it up a bit.
57860688 wrote:
121183109 wrote:
57074928 wrote:
So when UR Delver came out to win a GP, did Christian Calcano email/call you and thank you personally, or was there just a mutual understanding?
Legitimately laughed at this...haha
No kidding. +1 internets for a hidden gem in the standard deck help.
Not sure how I feel about Scepters in the s/b. Here's my idea:

3 Chalice of the Void
1 Wrath of God
2 Stifle
4 Canonist
2 Leyline of the Void/Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle

With all the decks using a LftL engine, and with the return of Dredge, I think some amount of gravehate is important. Also, I'd go -1 Hallowed Fountain +1 Tolaria West in your main deck. Maybe also -1 Spell Snare +1 Stifle? Stifle doesn't really seem to have any flaws...
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stifle
1 Wrath of God

Thoughts on this board? It seems to have answers to most of the commonly played decks, though it might be a little heavy of Elf hate and light on stuff for Blue control.
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stifle
1 Wrath of God

Thoughts on this board? It seems to have answers to most of the commonly played decks, though it might be a little heavy of Elf hate and light on stuff for Blue control.

Yeah... I like the extra chalice now that I'm thinking about it.. Chalice is good against basically everything. I think it's a strong board. Have you playtested the deck yet?
Yeah... I like the extra chalice now that I'm thinking about it.. Chalice is good against basically everything. I think it's a strong board. Have you playtested the deck yet?

A little. Zoo is a good matchup. Elves and Storm are decent in Game 1 and improve after boarding. Blue control decks are pretty tough, but that's the only problem matchup and, if you play better than them, you still have a good shot at winning.
I like the other boards more than the first proposed.
I like the other boards more than the first proposed.

Mine has been working out really well.
Is anyone going to experiment with it in our upcoming tourny?
Is anyone going to experiment with it in our upcoming tourny?

Thought about it but opted for something tested.
57860688 wrote:
121183109 wrote:
57074928 wrote:
So when UR Delver came out to win a GP, did Christian Calcano email/call you and thank you personally, or was there just a mutual understanding?
Legitimately laughed at this...haha
No kidding. +1 internets for a hidden gem in the standard deck help.
I've been playing online with this for about an hour now, and I'm 2-0. Each person quit after the first round, and each round lasted almost a half hour. I played 2 control decks, NLU and Tezz. I beat them both eventually because they couldn't deal with recursive Engineered Explosives from Academy Ruins, and eventually when I hit 10 mana, they couldn't stop firemane.

I really like this deck, although you have to be willing to play games that last a while... especially against control.
By far, URW is my favourite tri-color combination, and I had attempted to build a rogue-ish URW Solution deck for this Extended season.

It's just that... the current power level of Extended is too skewed towards Green and Blue. Green having Tarmogoyf (especially), Kitchen Finks, Rhox War Monk, Gaddock Teeg, Bant Charm. Blue having all the Faeries, counterspells, Shackles and Threads.

I can't help but subconsciously think to myself "Why aren't I splashing green for Goyf?" and before I know it, red faded into the distance to becoming the splash color, while green overtook it to be the main focus.

A control Firemane build seems interesting. It would evade all the common aggro-control hate, most notably EE, Threads, Shackles. Perhaps I'll attempt one more time in tackling a viable URW deck for Extended.

By the way, I still think a light green splash will make the deck better. Firespout over Wrath (at least in the MD numbers) would evade Teeg much better (can't always rely on Lightning Helix, can we?). And SB Ancient Grudge would give much gas against Affinity and artifact-based control.

By the way, how is Firemane working out? Mustering 6 mana in Extended is already a feat. What's more, 10 mana for a recursion engine? How reliable is that? The poster above make it sound rather easy. =P
The deck can work out very prison-esque. And I may make mine moreso than it already is. 10 mana isn't bad if you're set up around it.
Forgive my skepticism, but the general trend for this deck's mana base seem to be 21-23 lands + 4 Chrome Mox. Out of these 21-23 lands, 7-10 of them are fetchlands, constituting at least half of the manabase.

I just can't fathom how is it possible to draw 8-9 lands (assuming 1-2 Chrome Moxes on the board) out of the remaining 10-ish real mana-producing lands.

And besides this fact, do u really want to draw into 10 mana just for Firemane's recursion? This format is so darn fast that an ill topdeck of a land almost spells instant doom.

Even Control lists skimp on their lands. The common range being 22-24 lands, depending on how many Chrome Moxes they play, with the inclusion of at least 8 fetchlands as well.

U might have time to plainscycle Eternal Dragon once in the early going, but I doubt u'll have any breather to perform any of the Firemane/Dragon shenanigans from Turn 2 onwards.

Just some honest opinions.
Forgive my skepticism, but the general trend for this deck's mana base seem to be 21-23 lands + 4 Chrome Mox. Out of these 21-23 lands, 7-10 of them are fetchlands, constituting at least half of the manabase.

I just can't fathom how is it possible to draw 8-9 lands (assuming 1-2 Chrome Moxes on the board) out of the remaining 10-ish real mana-producing lands.

And besides this fact, do u really want to draw into 10 mana just for Firemane's recursion? This format is so darn fast that an ill topdeck of a land almost spells instant doom.

Even Control lists skimp on their lands. The common range being 22-24 lands, depending on how many Chrome Moxes they play, with the inclusion of at least 8 fetchlands as well.

U might have time to plainscycle Eternal Dragon once in the early going, but I doubt u'll have any breather to perform any of the Firemane/Dragon shenanigans from Turn 2 onwards.

Just some honest opinions.

The deck isn't meant to be fast at all. It's an attrition deck where your primary win condition is whering down your opponents after spells liek wrath of god and engineered explosives. Once you get an eternal dragon, you can plainscycle it multiple times until you hit 10 mana sources so you can return the angel from grave to play, although ususally if you cast Gifts Ungiven and pull Eternal Dragon, firemane angel, Exalted Angel, and another Gifts and Ungiven, they'll give you eternal dragon and firemane angel since they are the lesser of two evils.

It's a solid deck that keeps up by being a total pain in the *** to everyone else.
The deck isn't meant to be fast at all. It's an attrition deck where your primary win condition is whering down your opponents after spells liek wrath of god and engineered explosives. Once you get an eternal dragon, you can plainscycle it multiple times until you hit 10 mana sources so you can return the angel from grave to play, although ususally if you cast Gifts Ungiven and pull Eternal Dragon, firemane angel, Exalted Angel, and another Gifts and Ungiven, they'll give you eternal dragon and firemane angel since they are the lesser of two evils.

It's a solid deck that keeps up by being a total pain in the *** to everyone else.

I understand what u guys are getting at. It's a new take on Control never seen before in Extended. The only similar deck which wants more lands would probably be Tron, and it has lost favor for this season.

Fair enough. If u can get the Academy Ruins/EE combo going on, u'll be in good shape against most of the field. I'm just not too sure about combo, especially Dredge, with nothing to stop them except a pre-emptive EE set on 0 for Bridge tokens. And then, they would reanimate Akroma instead of Flame-kin for a slow but steady kill.

And u can't rely on drawing Stifle every game against TEPS, Swath Combo. U're giving them 10+ whole turns in assembling their combo. Besides that, they'll be steadily building their hands with anti-combo hate. Thoughtseize, Pithing Needle, Pact of Negation etc.

This deck has potential. I just don't think a recurring Firemane would do the job well. Eternal Dragon is fine. And if a resolved Shackles stick around, the recurring combo fails. They'll catch them and beat u with it. Ur only out is to fry them with ur own removals. What a waste, wouldn't it be? U'll have to SB alot of artifact hate to deal with that.

Just some considerations noted for u guys to ponder upon.
Fair enough. If u can get the Academy Ruins/EE combo going on, u'll be in good shape against most of the field. I'm just not too sure about combo, especially Dredge, with nothing to stop them except a pre-emptive EE set on 0 for Bridge tokens. And then, they would reanimate Akroma instead of Flame-kin for a slow but steady kill.

Trust me, as a Dredge player, I would be scared to face this deck. It's early creature control would crush my Magus of the Bazaar, and as soon as I play anything that is characteristic of dredge (like magus, or any draw/discard), then a clever angelfire player WILL set up an EE to 0. Then, if Akroma hits, all that is needed is a Wrath of God. Plus, chances are they won't be able to successfully cast Dread Return because it will just be countered... as will Flame-Kin Zealot's triggered ability. Once it's countered, wrath next turn and gg.

Also, shackles cost 2 mana.. that would be SO easy to destroy with EE. It's not even a fair situation to imagine shackles taking a dragon.

And against TEPS, play gifts ungiven and grab Stifle, Remand, Mana Leak, and another Gifts in game 1. In game two, you have all the tools you need to use Gifts to its fullest potential.

I must say, I am falling in love with this deck. Even though I will always be a Dredge player, this is a helluva cool deck to play.
Note: in game 1, this has major problems with Riptide Lab + V. Clique and/or Venser.
Trust me, as a Dredge player, I would be scared to face this deck. It's early creature control would crush my Magus of the Bazaar, and as soon as I play anything that is characteristic of dredge (like magus, or any draw/discard), then a clever angelfire player WILL set up an EE to 0. Then, if Akroma hits, all that is needed is a Wrath of God. Plus, chances are they won't be able to successfully cast Dread Return because it will just be countered... as will Flame-Kin Zealot's triggered ability. Once it's countered, wrath next turn and gg.

Also, shackles cost 2 mana.. that would be SO easy to destroy with EE. It's not even a fair situation to imagine shackles taking a dragon.

And against TEPS, play gifts ungiven and grab Stifle, Remand, Mana Leak, and another Gifts in game 1. In game two, you have all the tools you need to use Gifts to its fullest potential.

I must say, I am falling in love with this deck. Even though I will always be a Dredge player, this is a helluva cool deck to play.

I'm not sure about the Dredge combo now, but it runs Glimpse and Goblin Lore for redundancy, right? Of cos' u might make the point that they can be countered by Spell Snare, but in real MTG games, there's no perfect situation.

Most builds on this thread run only 4 Mana Leaks right? It's kinda optimistic to claim that Dread Return can be reliably countered every game. If u run another set, perhaps Rune Snag, then I'll take that statement seriously...

Wrath against Akroma kinda stinks as well. I'd prefer something such as Condemn. Coincidentally, it helps against All-in-Red, which is potentially the worst matchup for this deck.

Shackles cost 3 mana. 2 mana would be broken lol. Still within range for EE since u play 3c, but don't expect it to resolve. NLU potentially run up to 2 more playsets of counterspells more than u.

I think it's a fair situation to consider. U can't always assume u'll draw or Gifts into the Ruins/EE combo. It sounds easy but a recursion engine requires tons of mana, board stabilization and little to NO disruption from ur opponent.

Even when I had a brief stint with Tron with that combo, trust me, I was busy settling the opponent's side of the board consistently, until I can cast a Sundering Titan late-game, cripple his mana, and set up my engine. It's not easy.

If u're too focused on that combo now, play against Zoo, although Apes and Cats get dunked in the graveyard, u'll get fried by Tribal Flames in no time.

And besides, since this deck stalls out till Firemane's recursion, the NLU player should have more than 5 islands in play to catch both Firemane and Dragon. Why isn't it a fair situation to consider?
I don't get worried about blue countering dread return, because sac'ing the three creatures is part of the COST. Therefore I still get the zombies, then I can play ANOTHER dread return, sac'ing whatever creatures I have left and some zombie tokens for a slightly less effective attack.

Global removal is definitely a problem though.

Anyways this is the Angelfire Thread, not the dredge thread, and as far as I can tell angelfire has a pretty good mathup against dredge, although in my biased opinion I'd say 50/50 since I would never give anything but Zoo the benefit of the doubt over Dredge.
I think this deck needs an actual archetype thread. It might become a force to reckon with in the near future.
I think this deck needs an actual archetype thread. It might become a force to reckon with in the near future.

Maybe, but I think we should start fine-tuning it first. Basically make this into a make-shift team thread for it.
3 Eternal Dragon
1 Firemane Angel
2 Exalted Angel

4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Wrath of God
1 Firespout
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lightning Helix
4 Mana Leak
2 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
3 Engineered Explosives

2 Steam Vents
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Academy Ruins

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stifle
1 Wrath of God

Testing has been going really well. I haven't changed anything about the deck for several days; it has been working great. Especially the sideboard.

I have been thinking about a build without Gifts, just to explore all of the options that we have. I don't see it being better than a deck with Gifts, though.

The decks that I have tested the most against are Elves and Zoo, both of which are pretty easy. Storm is a pretty good one as well, especially after boarding. Canonist and Chalice are both good against it.

I haven't had any meaningful testing against the various Blue control decks, mostly because I haven't found any competent players to test against. I've won every match, but I also outplayed all of my opponents, so it probably isn't that good of a matchup.
I haven't had any meaningful testing against the various Blue control decks, mostly because I haven't found any competent players to test against. I've won every match, but I also outplayed all of my opponents, so it probably isn't that good of a matchup.

It's quite easy to win, as they won't really be able to play a wincon if you get recursive EE, but the problem is the games take FOREVER. I hate playing blue with this deck, just because of how frustrating it is.

I'm running the same list as you mntwin, and I must say it's working remarkably. This might just be one of the best original decks I've ever seen.
It's quite easy to win, as they won't really be able to play a wincon if you get recursive EE, but the problem is the games take FOREVER. I hate playing blue with this deck, just because of how frustrating it is.

I'm running the same list as you mntwin, and I must say it's working remarkably. This might just be one of the best original decks I've ever seen.

I was playing a guy yesterday, and recurring EE was trumped by Riptide Labs + Vendilion Clique.