4E Eberron

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Here’s the place to talk about the Eberron campaign setting and 4E.
Bring it on.

As long as Wayne Renyolds keeps up on doing the cover art, I don't care one bit.
What will happen to all of the books I have purchased over the past few years for Eberron? Specifically, is the Meta Plot going to be advanced any? And if so, by how many years?
What's the deal?

Eberron is what, three years old? It's a baby of a campaign setting with TONS of material that has yet to be fleshed out, but it's still been extremely successful.

What's going to happen now that it's going to be inevitably overhauled because of this (probably premature) announcing of an entirely new ruleset for D&D? FR I'm not worried about. The core D&D mythology, I'm not worried about, as long as it's preserved and carried along competently.

Eberron, I worry about.
All I can say is...

Restart the whole line, and work hard to prevent the thematic irregularities in the setting. The simplest way to so this is to give Keith Baker the final creative control and canon veto power this edition's Eberron. We like Keith Baker's work, we really do... Others, not necessarily as much.

Maybe I should promote this idea in my sig...

"Keith Baker for 4E!" maybe?
I mentioned in the 'Wish List' thread that I'm generally positive on the idea of a 4e (or at least, on the 4e that I think WotC will make). But I'm a little worried about Eberron -- which is where most of the D&D games I've played in the last few years have been set -- because if any setting is 3e, it's Eberron (much like FR is 2e, and Greyhawk is OD&D); it's the place where the assumptions of 3e make sense.

Still, one hopes that the transition to 4e will give WotC a chance to polish the rough edges, and fix the map scale for Khorvaire .
I have a request, can WotC please produce an official map with the official scale. Right now we have a few different maps and I'm not entirely sure which is the correct scale. Also can we have updated population figures based on the new canonized size of Khorvaire and Eberron itself? I mean a few million people inhabiting a continent the size of Asia is a tad ridiculous!
I stay away for the forums almost a year and have been hardly checking the regular site, just my link to upcoming Eberron books and I guess Im done with this company now too.

Im tired of investing my money in something that less than a couple years later is garbage, 3.0 to 3.5 was fine Since I basically only had the core 3, but now its going to 4 and the Books Ive just spent a bunch of money on are going to be useless, WOW its like Exalted all over again.
Keep Eberron Pure!
Don't let Eberron be hosed by the 4th ed change. Don't let them play havoc with the Meta-Plot.
Brew'N Games: A Homebrewing Blog, Both Games and Beer. "The Sky is Falling Like a Sock of Cocaine in the Ministry of Information..." - Man Man, Black Mission Goggles
Yeah I could care less about my other books (even though I just bought Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium), but I'm a little ticked that Eberron is being converted so short into its lifespan
Yes, there needs to be a way to reliably and official convert PrCs, feats, and monsters from 3rd into 4th edition. Something more strongly worded then the 3rd to 3.5 conversion document.
Eh the last 4 Eberron books were mostly fluff anyway so you know, still valid. Seems they've purposefully avoided crunch heavy books for awhile in the Eberron line so I'd relax, they have a plan.

I just hope they address some of the concerns regarding the Shifters.
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".
Eh the last 4 Eberron books were mostly fluff anyway so you know, still valid. Seems they've purposefully avoided crunch heavy books for awhile in the Eberron line so I'd relax, they have a plan.

I just hope they address some of the concerns regarding the Shifters.

What concerns would those be? I haven't really heard anything bad about shifters at all, so this is news to me...
Well its been brought up on the Eberron race/class boards several times to large effect that to make a shifter that takes advantage of their shifter trait on a regular basis (like someone that wants to use their razorclaws or longtooth on a regular basis) they have to devote every feat they have to shifter feats. This is seen as kind of a hassle and sucks.
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".
Well its been brought up on the Eberron race/class boards several times to large effect that to make a shifter that takes advantage of their shifter trait on a regular basis (like someone that wants to use their razorclaws or longtooth on a regular basis) they have to devote every feat they have to shifter feats. This is seen as kind of a hassle and sucks.

Oh, I see, I remember reading about that! :D

Yeah Shifters are feat intensive but from the rumors I've read, each 4e Class will have a ton of feats, something akin to a Bonus feat every other level and as well as the normal one every 3 levels. So Shifters become a lot more viable post-4e. Of course these are just rumors, but one can hope!
As I mentioned on the Eberron forum thread, the loss of a core race is what will hurt Eberron most (since it seems an update is at least a year down the road).

The loss of 4E support for the gnome, half-elf or half-orc will hurt conversions to 4E until we get official support.
Either shrink the continent or expand the population.
Well, I guess the whole country of Zilargo, the Library of Korranberg, House Sivis and its associated mark, and elemental binding are things that Eberron's 4e players won't need for a long time.


If gnomes are reintroduced later as new Eberron race, like Shifters and Warforged, does that mean they'll lose their Dragonmark?
Either shrink the continent or expand the population.

Theres also the fact that there will be one less dragonmark, which is big. Saying 'Well have one less dragonmark' is also going to be akin to saying 'Well have FR without the Weave'.

I hope Eberron gets updated ASAP without a fight or a struggle. Maybe the Tieflings will take up the bearer of the lost mark?
Will there be a way to get the "online" Eberron content as a collected and printed value? Will printed Eberron products be 'encouraging' the use of the fee based digital content, which I would find disgusting.
Even if some race isn't printed in the core book for some reason you can bet there will be a version online until the Eberron book comes out with will definitely have it.

Its not like they're going to retroactively take a race out of a setting.
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".
If gnomes are reintroduced later as new Eberron race, like Shifters and Warforged, does that mean they'll lose their Dragonmark?

A heard someone say they would be introduced in a supplement soon after the 3E release (whatever race it is, I think half-elf is as likely as gnomes). Still there will be some hiccups for those who want to convert immediately.
What is this about a race being left out of the core rules? I don't remember hearing that!
What is this about a race being left out of the core rules? I don't remember hearing that!

From an Inquest article.

The same thing will happen to the races covered in the core books, where the half-demon tieflings will claim a place at the expense of an undisclosed race—we’re guessing a half-elf, gnome and halfling were shut up in a dark cave with some paring knives, and no questions were asked of whoever came out…heck, there might even be three new races in the new edition! Not to worry; Slavicsek promises that any beloved races cut from the core books will appear in early Fourth Edition expansions.

We know the halfling is still there (a halfling cleric picture has been making the rounds).
Even if its not a core race you can bet they'll be in the Monster Manual
Aesop had it right 2,500 years ago, "By endeavoring to please everyone, he had pleased no one, and lost his ass in the bargain".
I stay away for the forums almost a year and have been hardly checking the regular site, just my link to upcoming Eberron books and I guess Im done with this company now too.

Im tired of investing my money in something that less than a couple years later is garbage, 3.0 to 3.5 was fine Since I basically only had the core 3, but now its going to 4 and the Books Ive just spent a bunch of money on are going to be useless, WOW its like Exalted all over again.

Yes, because as soon as they announce 4th edition, the text in your 3.5e books changes to that of an alien lanuage, their temperature rises to a flesh melting 4,000 degrees Celsius, and they are locked in an impenetrable safe and hurled into the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Get real. If you don't want to spend them money....YOU CAN STILL PLAY 3.5!!!

*gasp*
As I mentioned on the Eberron forum thread, the loss of a core race is what will hurt Eberron most (since it seems an update is at least a year down the road).

The loss of 4E support for the gnome, half-elf or half-orc will hurt conversions to 4E until we get official support.

Hrm...who playes Gnomes, Half Elves or Halforcs anyhow lol
Hrm...who playes Gnomes, Half Elves or Halforcs anyhow lol

Don't play much in Eberron, do you?
Yes, because as soon as they announce 4th edition, the text in your 3.5e books changes to that of an alien lanuage, their temperature rises to a flesh melting 4,000 degrees Celsius, and they are locked in an impenetrable safe and hurled into the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Get real. If you don't want to spend them money....YOU CAN STILL PLAY 3.5!!!

*gasp*

This is the internet. Every change is the worst change ever. Regardless of how much good it actually does.
I'm just here to make one quick note: I'm running a 4E playtest Eberron game right now. You'll hear more about it in next week's podcast and in some upcoming Insider articles.

Despite the fact that we don't have a complete, polished ruleset right now, we're moving along nicely. I'm specifically not going to touch "who's in and who's out" issues right now. But if my Eberron game is viable playing out of three-ring binders, yours should be just fine come next summer.

--David Noonan, game designer, Wizards of the Coast
...who wishes he had time to respond to every thread.
I'm really excited about this. I stopped playing my eberron campaign when Star Wars Saga came out because the rules were so much smoother for saga. going back to 3.5 hurt.
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I'm just here to make one quick note: I'm running a 4E playtest Eberron game right now. You'll hear more about it in next week's podcast and in some upcoming Insider articles.

Despite the fact that we don't have a complete, polished ruleset right now, we're moving along nicely. I'm specifically not going to touch "who's in and who's out" issues right now. But if my Eberron game is viable playing out of three-ring binders, yours should be just fine come next summer.

--David Noonan, game designer, Wizards of the Coast
...who wishes he had time to respond to every thread.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to help ease our fears!
I'm just here to make one quick note: I'm running a 4E playtest Eberron game right now. You'll hear more about it in next week's podcast and in some upcoming Insider articles.

Despite the fact that we don't have a complete, polished ruleset right now, we're moving along nicely. I'm specifically not going to touch "who's in and who's out" issues right now. But if my Eberron game is viable playing out of three-ring binders, yours should be just fine come next summer.

--David Noonan, game designer, Wizards of the Coast
...who wishes he had time to respond to every thread.

WOOT!

That fills my heart with the sound of Joy. HOY!

I am very glad to hear that.
I'm just here to make one quick note: I'm running a 4E playtest Eberron game right now. You'll hear more about it in next week's podcast and in some upcoming Insider articles.

Despite the fact that we don't have a complete, polished ruleset right now, we're moving along nicely. I'm specifically not going to touch "who's in and who's out" issues right now. But if my Eberron game is viable playing out of three-ring binders, yours should be just fine come next summer.

--David Noonan, game designer, Wizards of the Coast
...who wishes he had time to respond to every thread.

Woot!

[Long-Range-Hypnotism]
Scan the entire binder, and e-mail it to me. NOW!
[/Long-Range-Hypnotism]
Brew'N Games: A Homebrewing Blog, Both Games and Beer. "The Sky is Falling Like a Sock of Cocaine in the Ministry of Information..." - Man Man, Black Mission Goggles
My practical note: I would prefer if certain core Eberron concepts (the Warforged race, the Artificer class, dragonmarks, elemental binding, etc.) were given freely available conversion notes online to start with, before any new Eberron 4e books come out. I do think that having to buy new books to upgrade old material (rather than use genuinely new material) is a valid complaint.
My practical note: I would prefer if certain core Eberron concepts (the Warforged race, the Artificer class, dragonmarks, elemental binding, etc.) were given freely available conversion notes online to start with, before any new Eberron 4e books come out. I do think that having to buy new books to upgrade old material (rather than use genuinely new material) is a valid complaint.

Given that only the FR is getting an update in 2008, I assume that any conversion for Eberron will be done online. I assume it's too early to do a new setting book for Eberron. We do know it's one of the two settings they are supporting from the beginning.
The word is that 4th will be diffrent enough from 3rd that starting a new campaign is preferable to converting, because 2e-->3e conversion apparently "went over like a lead balloon".

Because of this, I doubt that dragonmarks, warforged and so on will get a conversion guide. Instead new rules will be posted, with the intent for those using them to rebuild for the new system.
Now, I wonder if there is any connection between the fact that Keith Baker has just quit his job at NetDevil to concentrate on his freelance work, and the upcoming need to convert Eberron to Fourth Edition . . . I hope there is.
Christopher Adams Religion must remain an outlet for people who say to themselves, "I am not the kind of person I want to be." It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied. - Frank Herbert, Dune
We know half elves won't be left out- they're mentioned explicitly in the races article. But really, why worry? It even says that any race cut will be brought back quickly. The dragonmarks will be less for the reasons that they were- to encourage people to play core races even with the new ones- but I see nothing wrong with that.
Look, while there is a lot of changes that are happening to the system (Can you smell what the WTOC's cooking?), there are a few support items that you are going to need as soon as the player's handbook is released for the Ebberon players, which should be made as a free download for ease of the converion.

1) Core Ebberon Races (Warforged, Changlings, and Shifters) need racial guidelines and class abilities for up to 8th level, so that the players have something to go on till you get the new ECS:4E out to presses.

2) You need whatever adjustments to the class that Artificers get assigned to to be accessable also up to 8th level of play available for download also.

3) A few sample monster conversions for DM's to use would be nice, but not completely nessicary. My personal preference for this will be the Iron Defender, and the Karrathen Skeleton (please forgive spelling).

I think with these three items, transition will go smoothlly for now for the new edition.
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The word is that 4th will be diffrent enough from 3rd that starting a new campaign is preferable to converting, because 2e-->3e conversion apparently "went over like a lead balloon".

On the other hand, 2e->3e was a total rebuild, from the ground up, by a completely different company, from the ashes of something that had become an acrimonious mess that even most fans agree was largely incomprehensible and unworkable at the end. (I guarantee you that there is not one AD&D DM who didn't houserule away at least half of the core rules and have to write whole houserule sets to deal with stuff like Player's Option.)

The situation is nothing like 3e->4e. I expect big changes for 4e, sure, but I don't expect the system to explode into pieces and have to be rebuilt the way 2e did. I expect something slightly more thoroughgoing than 3.0->3.5, but the core mechanics -- roll a d20 and add a modifier, count how many levels you have in each class, etc. -- to be basically the same.

I don't expect it to be fundamentally different from learning to play True20, I mean, and it's not really that hard to convert a D&D character to True20 if you really want to (compared to converting an AD&D character to a D&D 3.5 character).