[DtB] UGr/Ur Dreadstill

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UGr/Ur Dreadstill


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Ur/UGr Dreadstill is an Control/Aggro deck that is designed to control the board state with Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top, counter and deny your opponents spells and mana with Force of Will, Daze, Spell Snare, Stifle, Trickbind. Gain card advantage through Standstill/Mishra's Factory, and play huge creatures like Phyrexian Dreadnoguht+Stifle and Tarmogoyf. Basically sit back, watch your opponent, counter their spells, and disrupt their board until you can lay down a beater and deal enough damage to win.

Some Main deck explanations:
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Phyrexian Dreadnought - This guy can end the game in two turns. When he enters the Battlefield use Stifle to counter his Triggered Ability and you essentially get a 12/12 with trample for 1U.

Tarmogoyf - For 1G this is one of the strongest creatures in the format for his casting cost. Normally you do not want to play this guy on second turn as for he will only be a 2/3 or 3/4 that early in the game against most decks but, he has the potential of normally being a 4/5 or 5/6 when he is played.

Trinket Mage - A watered down 2/2 version of Tinker that allows you to search your library for a Phyrexian Dreadnought, Sensei's Divining Top, or an Engineered Explosives. This is a great utility card.

Brainstorm - Drawing is everything in this deck and at this point in time Brainstorm is one the most efficient ways to do so. It also acts like a counterspell by being able to put cards on top of your library when you have a Counterbalance on the Battlefield with no Divining Top.

Force of Will - This card defines the Legacy format. The strongest free counterspell in the game. When used right it's your ultimate answer.

Daze - Perhaps one of the most versatile counterspells ever printed. The ability to pull back an Island and counter something for free when tapped out is amazing. Especially when your opponent is tapped out, save a Force of Will and Daze.

Spell Snare - Is a great overall counter that hits a huge chunk of the Legacy meta's vital cards. Tarmogoyf, Daze, Counterspell, Remand, Mana Leak, Umezawa's Jitte, Arcbound Ravager, Cranial Plating, Counterbalance, Bitterblossom, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, Infernal Tutor, Pyroclasm, Smash to Smithereens, Incinerate, Keldon Marauders, Fork, Powder Keg, Null Rod, Transmute Artifact, Life From the Loam, Meddling Mage, Standstill, Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Terror, Smother, Dark Confidant, Echoing Truth, Suppression Field, Lightning Helix, Nantoko Shade, Chalice of the Void @ 1, Engineered Explosives @ 2, Serra Avenger, Jotun Grunt, I can go on. And if it does become a dead card it makes great fodder to Force of Will.

Stifle - Play Dreadnought, then play Stifle countering the Dreadnought's triggered ability and your set. This can also be a nasty card if used to counter your opponents Fetchland activated abilities or, Wasteland, or one of your opponents creatures that has a come into the Battlefield triggered ability.

Trickbind - Same as Stifle, just can't be countered by normal spells, only by a Counterbalance effect.

Standstill - Great card advantage engine when used the right way. On your second turn (if you do not have Dreadnought+Stifle or Counterbalance) you will normally want to play Mishra's Factory followed by a Standstill. If they haven't played a creature yet this forces them to play something allowing you to draw 3 cards or they will just sit there and get hit with the Mishra's Factory. This is a really efficient drawing engine for this deck, Legacy doesn't have much better to offer at the moment for this deck.

Counterbalance - The majority of the Legacy meta's casting cost for cards is between 1 and 3, most of the cards in this deck have a 1-3 casting cost so it can be easy at times to match casting costs with an opposing spell making it easy to wreck a lot of decks. Combine it with Sensei's Divining Top you have a countering engine that can control the board. Cards like Krosan Grip or Wipe Away that have Split Second can be hard to counter but remember, Counterbalance has a Triggered Ability so it still goes on the stack even with a Split Second Spell on it.

Sensei's Divining Top - Use this to filter through your deck and draw out the cards you need. With Counterbalance in play you can pretty much counter anything that costs 1 mana, for 1 mana you can look at the top 3 cards of your library and counter "almost" any spell.

Engineered Explosives - This is your bomb spell. Just playing it for 0 can blow up Chalice of the Void, Chrome Mox, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Petal, Ornithopter, any tokens on the Battlefield, etc.. Depending on the colors your running you can play this for 0,1,2, or 3. A nice trick against other control decks is you can play this for (example) to get two counters on it and dodge a Spell Snare, or 1 for 1 counter and still dodge it.

Mishra's Factory - A 2/2 for 1 mana until end of turn, that can pump itself up or other Factories you have in play to a 3/3 until end of turn. Play this on second turn and play Standstill.

Polluted Delta - The cost for being able to thin out your deck is 1 Life, possible waste if Stifled, but an amazing advantage for any deck. It also helps with having a Counterbalance but no top with the shuffling affect, or just getting rid of the cards you don't that need on the top of your library. You don't get to choose what shows up on top but the shuffle helps out a lot.

Flooded Strand - See above.

Wasteland - This really is a hateful card. With all the non-basic lands being used in an assortment of decks at least 3 are essential to the mana denial strategy of this deck.


Some Sideboard explanations:
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Propaganda - A different way to deal with Aggro decks and decks that like create a lot of tokens, and has a three casting cost(great at slipping through Counterbalance).

Magus of the Moon - Three casting cost 2/2 creature that can wreck decks like Landstill, Threshold, 43land, and other decks that use a large number of non-basic lands.

Blood Moon - Before there was Magus there was this. Three casting cost enchantment that does the same thing as Magus against the same decks. Depending on what your playing against either Magus or Blood Moon can be better than the other.

Back to Basics - Not quite as potent as the above two cards but can still wreck decks using non-basic lands if you are packing quite a few basics. The abilities of non-basic lands will still be able to be used but they won't be able to untap.

Sower of Temptation - With a four casting cost this can easily slip passed Counterbalance when having troubles with a resolved fattie like Tombstalker for an example or an opposing Dreadnought. It's easily killed by some decks because of the two defense but provides a 2/2 flying beater that just stole their bigest threat.

Control Magic - Before Sower there was this for the same reaons. Four casting cost, steals biggest threat, the only drawback/advantage it has to Sower is that it's an Enchantment and is easily destroyed by most decks sideboarding Krosan Grip.

Pithing Needle - Is the answer for so many cards in Legacy. Wasteland, Fetchlands(Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire, Windswept Heath), Arcbound Ravager, Pernicious Deed, Powder Keg, Aether Vial, Mutavault, Riptide Laboratory, Cursecatcher, Umezawa's Jitte, Mogg Fanatic, Rishaden Port, Dustbowl, Maze of Ith, Seige-Gang Commander, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, I can go on. Can also be tutored for with Trinket Mage.

Crucible of Worlds - Crucible has a 3 casting cost as well and is used as way to mainly re-play Mishra's Factory and Wasteland(or any other land) due to you using them or them being destroyed. Crucible+Wasteland lock against some decks can = win, and being able to bring back Factory can help long enough for you to find that Nought+Stifle. But this is also considered a win-more card. The deck can work just fine without it.

Pyroclasm - 2 mana for 2 damage to all annoying 2/2's and weaker, also can be used to finish off bigger creatures.

Firespout - Optional card depending on the color you run. Is great for taking out some of the bigger creatures that have a defense of 3 like Trygon Predator, Nimble Mongoose, Mishra's Factory, etc..

Blue Elemental Blast - Can majorly help against builds such as Mono Red Burn, Goblins, Dragon Stompy, or any deck that can majorly utilize Red. It also counters/destroys such spells as shattering Spree, Smash to Smithereens, Goblin Lackey, Lightning Bolt, Fireblast, Fire/Ice, and other Red spells that this deck doesn't like.

Red Elemental Blast - Can majorly help against builds such as Dreadstill, Merfolk, Mono Blue Control(MUC), Solidarity, Threshold, and slightly versatile against Ichorid and Ad Naseum Tendrils(ANT). Great for counter wars against Force of Will, Spell Snare, Daze, and other Blue spells this deck doesn't like.

Tormod's Crypt -The best 0 casting cost graveyard hate Legacy has to offer and is a must in most general metas. It hurts Goyf, Ichorid, Threshold, and others.

Relic of Progenitus - Next best thing to Crypt but costs one because you can pay another one and exile all graveyards then draw a card. It costs two mana to do what Crypt does for free but in a lot of match ups like AggroLoam for instance, this can be dropped first turn and just rip their graveyard apart throughout the game.

Krosan Grip - Essential for destroying opposing Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top, Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, Moat, Pernicious Deed, Humility, the list goes on. It also adds to the 3 casting cost for Counterbalance.

Ancient Grudge - Destroys two artifacts for a total of three mana. Even if it's countered the first time you play it, pay it's Flashback cost for one G.

Echoing Truth - This can be a main deck card or a sideboard card depending on your meta and preference. It's used to return multiples or just one of a permanent back to it's owner's hand like Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker, Chalice of the Void, Goblin or Elf tokens. Most of the time you will be able to counter the bounced card if they try and replay it.

Submerge - This can be a great card against any deck that uses any type of Forest. Wait until they try and Fetch and in response bounce their big threat back on top of their library.

Trygon Predator - Great artifact/enchantment removal on a 2/3 flying stick, the only drawback is you must do combat damage first. Three casting cost helps to get by Counterbalance.



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Matchup Analysis:
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Goblins Preboard 50/50- Do whatever you can do to counter a first turn Goblin Lackey, if they resolves it can be an ugly game unless you follow that up with a Factory. Use Top/Brainstorm/Standstill to try and find Dreadnought+Stifle as fast as possible. G splash has Goyf as another option. Most Goblin builds lack main deck ansers to Dreadnought and really can't stand up to most Goyf's, resolving one of the two real early on will ususlly win you the game.

Postboard 55/45- The match up gets better but follow the same plan as game one. Bring in Blue Elemental blast for first turn Lackey, Firespout/Pyroclasm/Echoing Truth for all of their creatures, Pithing Needle/Krosan Grip for Aether Vial/Rishaden Port. They can bring in Red Elemental Blast, Cabal Therapy, some builds run Krosan Grip or Tin-Street Hooligan that can make some matchs a pain. This match up is very winnable but it's a tough one.

Threshold Preboard 60/40- Thresh can tend to be a little more controlling than you spell wise but you usually make up for it with Counterbalnace/Top even though you both have close to the same counter package. You have a much quicker win condition with Dreadnought, but that can be stalled with their main deck bounce spells. Standstills can bury them if you can keep them creatureless long enough to drop it, they play more reactively than you do so you can force them to play spells under it netting you card advantage. Resolving a Counterbalance and Top can wreck them as most of their deck costs one to two mana with a couple of three casting cost spells. Use Stifle and wasteland to deny their sources, keeping them from playing Nimble MOngoose, Goyf, or Trygon Predator.

Postboard 50/50- They bring in Krosan Grip or Submerge depending on their build and wether or not your playing to deal with Dreadnought and Counterbalance/Top. Play like you would game 1 and resolve Counterbalance/Top, Stifle/Wasteland to deny sources, Dreadnought+Stifle as soon as possible. You can bring in Red Elemental Blast's, depending on the build Pithing Needle for Wooded Foothills, and maybe Echoing Truth for pesky Trygon's. If they are playing Counterbalance/Top as well you will need to bring in Krosan Grip's.

DragonStompy Preboard 50/50- Try to resolve Dreadnought+Stifle as soon as possible. A resolved Trinisphere will hinder this plan and can make the game go either way, so make sure you counter it, Magus of the Moon really doesn't affect us. Chalice of the Void really isn't too much of a problem as we still have other counters to use, Trinket Mage to tutor for Engineered Explosives, and the splash has Goyf. Stifle their Chrome Mox's whenever possible to slow them down. Echiong Truth main deck is nice here.

Postboard 60/40- Bring in Blue Elemental Blast's for Rakdos Pit Dragon/Taurean Mauler/Gathan Raiders/Seething Song, Echoing Truths also for the creatures, splash can bring in Krosan Grip for Trinisphere/Chalice of the Void/Umezawa'a Jitte. You can also bring in Pithing Needle is desired to hose Pit Dragon/Jitte/Powder Keg. They will most likely bring in Red Elemental Blast's, Shattering Spree's, and possibly Powder Keg.

Ichorid Preboard 50/50- When playing this match up put them on a two turn clock before they combo just to be safe. Keep your mana open turn one so you can Force of Will their Breakthrough and Stifle their Deep Analysis if possible, or Stifle the activated ability of Cephalid Coliseum to keep them from dredging. Find anyway possible to Exile their Bridge from Below's like play Dreadnought and sacrifice him, acvtivate Mishra's Factory to make it a 2/2 creature and target it with Wasteland. Use Trinket Mage to tutor out an Engineered Explosives and play it at 0 to take care of the tokens they do create if you can't Exile the Bridge's. Smart Ichorid players can trick you though and make you counter things you probabaly should not have, so pick your spots wisely. Watch out for the Ichorid part of Ichorid too, recurring those 3/1's every turn can take their tole. Resolve a Dreadnought fast while leaving your counter options open because they can combo when you least expect them to.

PostBoard 55/45- You bring in Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus to Exile their graveyard. Echoing Truth for their 2/2 Zombie Tokens. And you will use Trinket Mage again hopefuly to tutor for Explosives/Relic/Crypt. They will more likely than not bring in Chalice of the Void and play it for 0 to stop you from playing Crypt, Pithing Needle to stop you from activating Relic or Crypt, and most likely Chain of vapor to bounce your Dreadnought or your Goyf.

TES/ANT Preboard 70/30- Resolve Counterbalance(wrecks combo) or [s]Standstill[/c](they have to play spells netting you card advantage) fast, Force of Will/Daze Orim's Chant above all then go for Ad Naseum and keep a Stifle open for the Storm trigger on Tendrils of Agony/Empty the Warrens/Grapeshot (whatever they decide to use). [c]Spell Snare[c] is really only good for Infernal Tutor.

Postboard 70/30- Bring in Blue Elemental Blast's to counter random win conditions (example:Grapeshot/Empty the Warrens) and accelaeration like Rite of Flame if needed. Red Elemental Blast's for Mystical Tutor/Brainstorm/Ponder. Echoing Truth to bounce Empty the Warren tokens is a crushing blow and very hard to recover from. They bring in Pyroblast's for your Counterbalance, Vexing Shusher as a back up for Orim's Chant, and possibly a few Shattering Spree's for Dreadbought/Top.

The Rock Preboard 40/60- This match up is terrible for us but not unbeatable. Every card in the deck is an answer to what we are doing. Qasali Pridemage, Smother, Swords to Plowshares, Vindicate, Pernicious Deed.... I can keep going, the hate this deck has for us is amazing. It won't be worth much Counterbalance/Top can save you a little trouble if you can manage to keep a Trinket Mage somewhere in the top 3 cards of your library. Getting Standstill established here before they can get a creature online can also really help you gain a card advantage on them (your going to need it with all the discard).

PostBoard 35/65- They bring in Krosan Grip adding to the massive amount of hate they have for us already. Your best bet is to bring in Pithing Needle for Deed/Pridemage/Loxodon Hierarch, resolve Counterbalnce/Top and keep a three casting cost card in the top three somewhere. Take advantage of Standstill to get your hand loaded.

Goyf Sligh Preboard 75/25- Great match up for us. They don't play any cards main deck that can deal with Dreadnought. Some builds can main deck Vexing Shusher wich can get annoying but nothing to really worry about as you can destroy it with Engineered Explosives and all of their relavent spells are easily countered. Stifle their Fetchland's and your all set.

Postboard 70/30- You bring in Firespout/Pyroclasm for Vexing Shusher/Figure of Destiny/Grim Lavamancer. Pithing Needle targeting Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire, Figure of Destiny, Shusher, Lavamancer. They can bring in Krosan Grip/Shattering spree to make things a little difficult but we have too many answer for them.

Suicide Black/Eva Green Preboard 50/50- Resolving Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top are key here. If Counterbalance/Top is not available to you counter their discard and try to resolve a Dreadnought as soo as possible. It can get hard if they make you discard early on so Standstill wil become your best friend if you own the Battlefield. Spell Snare Dark Confidant when at all possible. Eching Truth Tombstalker and the creature they made you discard that they Reanimated(for those who main deck Truth).

Postboard 50/50- Resolve Counterbalance/Top! Bring in Needle for Bloodstained Mire, Umezawa's Jitte, and possible Pernicious Deed. Echoing Truth if you have more. Firespout/Pyroclasm for Hypnotic Specter, Dark Confidant, Nantuko Shade. Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus to keep Goyf's managable with the burn and slow down Tombstalker from hitting the board. Standstill is your best bet for any fuel.

Landstill Preboard 45/55- This is a close match up, they have a lot of answer for us in the form of Vindicate, Swords to Plowshares, Moat, Humility. Both decks run the Mishra's Factory and Wasteland so it's hard for either player to utilize Standstill. Main deck Echoing Trith and Goyf's will help out here.

Postboard 55/45- The Ur build will usually have Magus of the Moon or Blood Moon in the sideboard and that can usually shut them down. Builds packing Crucible of the Worlds will find it handy also for recurring Wasteland/Factory. Pithing Needle is a must for Pernicious Deed, Dust Bowl, Academy Ruins, and other Manlands they might use.

AggroLoam Preboard 60/40- This can actually be a good match up for us. We play the control roll so resolve a Counterbalance, Force Terravore/Knight of the Reliquary/Countryside Crusher/Devastating Dreams, resolve Dreadnought and the game should be yours. Spel Snare is great here with most builds running Goyf's, Dark Confidant's, Burning Wish, Dreams.

Postboard 55/45- Really about the same. They bring in Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge so things get a little tricky for Dreadnought and Counterbalance. But stick to the same game plan as game one, resolve Counterbalance and Dreadnought to beat face. You can bring in Echoing Truth/Sower of Tempation for the random creatures you couldn't counter and Blue Elemental Blast for thier Red cards like Burning Wish, Dreams, Seismic Assualt, Crusher, and some builds Taurean Mauler.

Survival Variants Preboard 55/45- Do whatever you can to counter Survival of the Fittest. It's one of the main ways they can deal with Dreadnought by getting out a Big Game Hunter or Qasali Pridemage(which you will want to Stifle). Along with their regular removal like Swords to Plowshares and Pernicious Deed it can be hard to get a Dreadnought to stick (Goyf is a big help here considering this fact). For those that run Pithing Needle main board this match up can be pretty easy naming Survival. Try and resolve Counterbalance/Top against them and Brainstorm can save the game with the discard spells they pack.

Postboard 50/50- Of course everyone brings in Grips against us, if you have extra Needle's bring them in along with some Grips of your own. Try to get Dreadnought to stick and use Goyf/Factories as a back up plan.


Affinity Variants Preboard 55/45- This deck has absolutely no way to deal with Dreadnought main deck at all unless they resolve a Master of Etherium with multiple artifacts on the battlefield (but even then they can really only hold Dreadnought at bay). But even with Dreadnought and Goyf's on board they can still sacrifice to Arcbound Ravager with a Disciple of the Vault in play for the win. Counter Aether Vial with whatever you have, if one resolves countering thier creatures becomes null turn 3-4 unless you play Needle main board to stop Vial from being used. Needle is also good for Cranial Plating and Ravager. Keep the pressure on with Goyf's and resolve Dreadnought as soon as posible.

Postboard 60/40- You bring in Pyroclasm/Firespout/Propaganda/Grip/Red Elemental Blast for the creatures you can't counter. Extra Needle's for Ravager/Atog(if they run it)/Plating. Propaganda slows them down but not by much. They pretty much run the same but bring in Grip's, possible Chalice of the Void, Duress, and Needle's of their own to stop Top/Wasteland/Fetchland's/Factory.

Mono Red Burn Variants Preboard 55/45- Resolve Counterbalance/Top as soon as possible if you can't cast Dreadnought on second turn. The average build doesn't run artifact removal main deck so often game 1 they have no way to deal with Dreanought. Just like you, they can put you on a 4 turn clock as well. Most of the burn you will just have to take. Try and get Counterbalance/Top lock as soon as possible or second turn Dreadnought/Stifle. Really only care about hard countering Price of Progress, Fireblast, and Flamebreak/Browbeat, maybe a Fork.

Postboard 60/40- You bring in Hydroblast, Blue Elemental Blast, and Chill(if you run Chill). They bring in Shattering Spree/Smash to Smithereens, and Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, maybe even Tormod's Crypt to hate on Goyf. Basically stick to the same gameplan but now you have to deal with countering Dreadnought hate with Hydroblast/BEB/Snare/Force and Pyroblast targeting your counters. Again Counter/Top is your friend here. Use Stifle to stop Shattering Spree's replicate ability. And watch out for Fireblast!


Some ways to win are:
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1. Second turn cast Phyrexian Dreadnought then Stifle the Dreadnought's triggered ability, and swing on third turn, will usually have your opponent scoop before your 4th turn in a lot of situations.

2. First turn cast Sensei's Divining Top, second turn cast Counterbalance to lock the game down. Use Top to filter through the deck and draw into Dreadnought + Stifle or Goyf's.

3. Play Mishra's Factory on second turn then cast Standstill. This play can net you card advantage when your opponent casts anything on their turn. When done right using Factory this can lead to wins.

4. If Factory/Standstill doesnt get the win Standstill usually nets you a Goyf or two, the missing Dreadnought you need for that Stifle/Trickbind in your hand, and maybe even extra Factory or two to keep agggro at bay long enought to get your other win conditions.

5. This deck can win in many ways depending on your draw, but overall skill and practice is what makes this deck win.


Some cards that simply weren't good enough to make the cut:


All other cards that weren't mentioned are either self-explanitory or meta choices by the people that ran them. Feel free to ask any questions about said cards or anything I might have missed and i will fix the problem.


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This is my current UGr list and some other builds.(Will update frequently)
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[deck=UGr Dreadstill by Scott Blumenthal 1st out of 187]
Creatures
3* Phyrexian Dreadnought
4* Tarmogoyf
2* Trinket Mage

Spells
4* Brainstorm
2* Daze
4* Force of Will
3* Spell Snare
4* Stifle
1* Trickbind
3* Standstill
4* Counterbalance
3* Sensei's Divining Top
2* Engineered Explosives

Land
3* Mishra's Factory
3* Wasteland
3* Polluted Delta
3* Flooded Strand
4* Island
3* Tropical Island
2* Volcanic Island

SB:
2* Sower of Temptation
2* Blue Elemental Blast
3* Krosan Grip
2* Pyroblast
1* Red Elemental Blast
3* Firespout
2* Tormod's Crypt
[/deck]

[deck=UGr Dreadstill by Rich Shay 3rd out of 187]
Creatures
3* Phyrexian Dreadnought
4* Tarmogoyf
2* Trinket Mage

Spells
4* Brainstorm
2* Daze
1* Fire/Ice
4* Force of Will
2* Lightning Bolt
4* Stifle
1* Trickbind
1* Ponder
3* Standstill
3* Counterbalance
3* Sensei's Divining Top
2* Engineered Explosives

Land
4* Mishra's Factory
3* Wasteland
3* Flooded Strand
2* Polluted Delta
3* Island
3* Tropical Island
3* Volcanic Island

SB:
1* Ancient Grudge
2* Blue Elemental Blast
1* Hydroblast
2* Krosan Grip
1* Pyroblast
1* Red Elemental Blast
2* Submerge
3* Firespout
2* Relic of Progenitus
[/deck]

[deck=Dreadstill by Andrea Milillo 1st out of 116]
Creatures
2* Phyrexian Dreadnought
2* Sower of Temptation
4* Tarmogoyf
3* Trinket Mage

Spells
4* Brainstorm
3* Daze
4* Force of Will
4* Stifle
1* Trickbind
4* Standstill
4* Counterbalance
2* Sensei's Divining Top

Lands
1* Academy Ruins
3* Wasteland
3* Flooded Strand
3* Polluted Delta
4* Mishra's Factory
3* Island
3* Tropical Island
2* Volcanic Island

SB:
1* Phyrexian Dreadnought
1* Trygon Predator
2* Blue Elemental Blast
2* Krosan Grip
1* Pyroblast
1* Red Elemental Blast
3* Firespout
2* Pithing Needle
1* Relic of Progenitus
1* Tormod's Crypt
[/deck]

[deck=UGrDreadstill by Rich Shay 12th out of 1228 at GP Chicago2009]
Creatures
3 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Tarmogoyf
2 * Trinket Mage

Spells
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
2 * Daze
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind
3 * Counterbalance
3 * Standstill
2 * Ponder
2 * Sensei's Divining Top
2 * Engineered Explosives

Land
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Wasteland
3 * Flooded Strand
2 * Polluted Delta
3 * Island
3 * Tropical Island
3 * Volcanic Island

SB:
3 * Firespout
3 * Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
2 * Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
2 * Krosan Grip
2 * Ancient Grudge
2 * Relic of Progenitus
1 * Tormod's Crypt
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Nicolò Battistuzzi 1st place of 55]
Creatures [9]
3 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Tarmogoyf
2 * Trinket Mage

instant [20]
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [3]
1 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
3 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland

60 cards
Sideboard:
2 * Magus of the Moon
1 * Ancient Grudge
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
1 * Hydroblast
2 * Krosan Grip
3 * Firespout
3 * Tormod's Crypt
[/deck]

[deck=TarmoDreadstill by Eugenio Capocasale 1st place of 86]
creature [8]
2 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [19]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [6]
2 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [7]
2 * Crucible of Worlds
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Sensei's Divining Top
1 * Tormod's Crypt

land [21]
1 * Academy Ruins
3 * Flooded Strand
3 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland

61 cards
Sideboard:
2 * Gilded Drake
2 * Echoing Truth
3 * Krosan Grip
2 * Pyroclasm
3 * Propaganda
1 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=TarmoDreadstill by Nicola Landoni 2nd place of 86]
creature [8]
2 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [19]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [6]
2 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [7]
2 * Crucible of Worlds
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Sensei's Divining Top
1 * Tormod's Crypt

land [21]
1 * Academy Ruins
3 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
1 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
61 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Echoing Truth
3 * Krosan Grip
2 * Pyroclasm
2 * Propaganda
2 * Threads of Disloyalty
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Urg Dreadstill by Alex Mateu 2nd of 76]
creature [9]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
2 * Trinket Mage

instant [19]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
3 * Fire / Ice
4 * Force of Will
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
1 * Engineered Explosives
3 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
3 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Ancient Grudge
1 * Blue Elemental Blast
1 * Hydroblast
2 * Krosan Grip
2 * Firespout
2 * Threads of Disloyalty
1 * Engineered Explosives
4 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Ben Lukas 3rd of 127]
creature [10]
3 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Tarmogoyf
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [18]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
2 * Krosan Grip
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
2 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
2 * Flooded Strand
3 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
3 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
4 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Vexing Shusher
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
1 * Krosan Grip
3 * Red Elemental Blast
2 * Firespout
1 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Roni Ahonen 3rd of 47]
creature [9]
3 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [20]
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [3]
1 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
3 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
2 * Krosan Grip
3 * Red Elemental Blast
2 * Firespout
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Thomas MacDonald 3rd of 42]
creature [10]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [18]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
2 * Krosan Grip
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
2 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
2 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
3 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Vexing Shusher
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
1 * Krosan Grip
3 * Red Elemental Blast
2 * Firespout
1 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Rich Shay 4th of 58]
creature [7]
3 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Tarmogoyf

instant [19]
4 * Brainstorm
1 * Cryptic Command
1 * Daze
1 * Fire / Ice
4 * Force of Will
3 * Krosan Grip
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [8]
4 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
1 * Crucible of Worlds
3 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [22]
3 * Flooded Strand
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
3 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Vexing Shusher
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
2 * Red Elemental Blast
3 * Firespout
3 * Relic of Progenitus
2 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ugr Dreadstill by Damien Colomb 4th of 44]
creature [9]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Tarmogoyf
2 * Trinket Mage

instant [20]
4 * Brainstorm
3 * Daze
3 * Fire / Ice
4 * Force of Will
4 * Stifle
2 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
2 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [20]
3 * Flooded Strand
3 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Tropical Island
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
2 * Echoing Truth
3 * Krosan Grip
2 * Firespout
2 * Chill
3 * Propaganda
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]


My Ur Dreadstill list and others:
Show


[deck=UrDreadstill by Xero_2285]
Creatures
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Trinket Mage

Spells
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
2 * Trickbind
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill
2 * Sensei's Divining Top
2 * Engineered Explosives

Land
3 * Flooded Strand
6 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland

SB:
2 * Magus of the Moon
2 * Blue Elemental Blast
1 * Hydroblast
2 * Echoing Truth
2 * Red Elemental Blast
1 * Pyroblast
2 * Pyroclasm
1 * Tormod's Crypt
1 * Relic of Progenitus
1 * Pithing Needle
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ur Dreadstill by Rodney Hannigan 1st of 127]
creature [7]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 * Trinket Mage

instant [21]
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
2 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
2 * Engineered Explosives
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [21]
3 * Flooded Strand
6 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
2 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
3 * Blue Elemental Blast
2 * Echoing Truth
3 * Red Elemental Blast
2 * Pyroclasm
2 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Ur Dreadstill by Rodney Hannigan 1st of 32]
creature [8]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Trinket Mage

instant [21]
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
2 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [20]
3 * Flooded Strand
6 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
1 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
3 * Echoing Truth
4 * Red Elemental Blast
3 * Chill
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]

[deck=Dreadstill by roodabagel 1st of 62]
creature [8]
4 * Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 * Trinket Mage

instant [21]
4 * Brainstorm
4 * Daze
1 * Echoing Truth
4 * Force of Will
3 * Spell Snare
4 * Stifle
1 * Trickbind

enchantment [7]
3 * Counterbalance
4 * Standstill

artifact [4]
1 * Engineered Explosives
1 * Pithing Needle
2 * Sensei's Divining Top

land [20]
3 * Flooded Strand
2 * Island
4 * Island
4 * Mishra's Factory
3 * Polluted Delta
1 * Volcanic Island
3 * Wasteland
60 cards

Sideboard:
3 * Echoing Truth
3 * Back to Basics
3 * Chill
3 * Pithing Needle
3 * Tormod's Crypt
15 cards
[/deck]


I have to thank Zarkuu for the cool borders and gamegeek2 for the opening banner. PM me if you see any typos or something that needs to be addressed. If there is a match up you would like to see that is not posted here PM me and I will get some testing done for it.

Let the discussion begin.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
Affinity seems a tad innacurate, I've beaten dreadstill every time. I've beaten turn 2 dreadnought followed by standstill, with force of will on my turn 1 vial. Postboard both sides have Grips, potentially Needles help out but any blue deck has a fundamental disadvantage against Affinity. Tarmogoyf is made a pansy against Plating and Master. Postboard beating multiple grips isn't too hard. And Counterbalance is trash, too.
Affinity seems a tad innacurate, I've beaten dreadstill every time. I've beaten turn 2 dreadnought followed by standstill, with force of will on my turn 1 vial. Postboard both sides have Grips, potentially Needles help out but any blue deck has a fundamental disadvantage against Affinity. Tarmogoyf is made a pansy against Plating and Master. Postboard beating multiple grips isn't too hard. And Counterbalance is trash, too.

That's odd, because I have never lost a round to Affinity with Dreadstill. I go -3 Counterbalance, -3 Standstill, and -2 Daze I believe for +2 REB, +1 Pyroblast, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Firespout. This is an example sideboard, I can go more in depth after the WFLT.

There have been games where I can't get a Dreadnought out fast enough and they can get me. But post board the match up is just unfair for them.

I'm heading off to a tournament here in less than an hour, I'll give a small report when I get back. I might report a little on my win last week too.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
...suppose I mention I've beaten David Gerheart playing Dreadstill, when he drew 3 Krosan Grips?

At any rate, this is the hardest of the blue matchups for Affinity, it's close but I'd say 55-45 in favor of the robots.

EDIT: Reading one of Stephen Menendian's tournament reports, has anyone but the Japanese considered Vision Charm? It's less versatile than Trickbind, but is cheaper. Phasing does not triger CIP abilities.
...suppose I mention I've beaten David Gerheart playing Dreadstill, when he drew 3 Krosan Grips?

At any rate, this is the hardest of the blue matchups for Affinity, it's close but I'd say 55-45 in favor of the robots.

EDIT: Reading one of Stephen Menendian's tournament reports, has anyone but the Japanese considered Vision Charm? It's less versatile than Trickbind, but is cheaper. Phasing does not triger CIP abilities.

Then I would say congrats on your win sir, but you are wrong my friend, we destroy Affinity. The tourney I got to today was weak sauce because only 5 people showed, no report really needed. So I got somebody to play my Affinity list today for kicks.... destroyed him 2-0, and this guy plays Affinity so he knew what he was doing, he even complemented my build. Grip's, REB's, Needle, E.E's, bounce of choice (mine was E.Truth today). It's almost unfair post board.

I have thought about Charm lately. Great when Dreadnought is targeted with removal, but I don't think it can replace Trickbind. So many games I've resolved a Dreadnought because they thought they was going to counter my Stifle... ahh, good times. But I haven't tested it so I can't be for sure, just on paper it doesn't look like it's worth the inclusion.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
...say what you want. I'll say this is the worst of blue matchups, but we're favored game 1. Your list seems rough on us...but others' lists, I would say, are different. Most people do not pack 4 Dreadnoughts, and have Goyfs instead.

Please note, however that I may board Chalices, it really catches people off guard. And Krosan Grip.

Also, I notice the usual "post board we're more favored" bias that everyone gets. Less than most, though.
Also, here's a banner I made:

IMAGE(<a href="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9061/dreadstill.jpg" title="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9061/dreadstill.jpg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">img189.imageshack.us/img189/9061/dreadst...</a>)

It may need shrinking.
...say what you want. I'll say this is the worst of blue matchups, but we're favored game 1. Your list seems rough on us...but others' lists, I would say, are different. Most people do not pack 4 Dreadnoughts, and have Goyfs instead.

Please note, however that I may board Chalices, it really catches people off guard. And Krosan Grip.

Also, I notice the usual "post board we're more favored" bias that everyone gets. Less than most, though.

...say what you want. I'll say we STOMP Affinity because I know this to be true, I've tested it and destroyed it. Funny, the list I've been talking about is my UGr list (I run Goyf's as well) and no one besides my friend Chris (which I'm willing to bet my whole deck you don't know) has seen the list besides the people getting beat by it lately. The only recent list of mine anyone has seen is my Ur list because I have it posted in the op.

I will admit, another buddy of mine did beat me today twice during the small tourney I was at, round 3 was 2-0 him and round 4 was 2-1 him. I can't reveal any of his list for he has been working on it a long time now and plans on bringing it to Gen-Con. It is a force to be reckoned with though, my Dreadnought's were sad pandas.

Please read. I noted Chalice, Grip, Duress, and Needle's as cards that Affinity would bring in against us. The amount of hate we have for Affinity is... for a lack of a better term... unfair. Small cards like REB destroy Master, we don't always need Grip. Heck today I E.E.'d for 1 to pop Vial and Disciple, then cast Needle and said Plating, Wasteland wrecked his destructible lands so all he had was a Citadel, game was over from there and that was main deck no sideboard. That's not bias, those are facts. If your destroying Dreadstill that means you are playing against inferior Dreadstill pilots no matter what big name you can type up..... he did something wrong or you got lucky. And winning one game against a big player doesn't make the whole match up terrible for Dreadstill game 1, we have answers, it's all about whether or not you know how to use them. We only get stronger game 2.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
Fair enough...go ahead with that. Your sideboard I admit is a nightmare. I'd put the matchup at 50/50, give or take 5 points. Much worse for us than the blowout we get vs CounterTop.

As for Affinity...well that's not very relevant in the MWS tourney, is it?

What do you think of the banner.
Fair enough...go ahead with that. Your sideboard I admit is a nightmare. I'd put the matchup at 50/50, give or take 5 points. Much worse for us than the blowout we get vs CounterTop.

As for Affinity...well that's not very relevant in the MWS tourney, is it?

What do you think of the banner.

We need to sit down some time and bust out like 20 games preboard and sideboard.

Hmm, not sure. I don't know if anyone is playing it.

I like it. I don't know how to re-size it though, of course I haven't tried yet.

I get to go to the constructed Legacy event at Nationals here in a little bit. I didn't get to go last night because I just couldn't make it but that Foil set of Mirrodin is calling my name.

Has anyone heard anything about the event last night?
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
How do you find the Zoo matchup to be? It wasn't in the OP. My Zoo build seems to be around even against Dreadstill (more testing is needed, though), but it also has a lot more hate than most (Shusher, Grip, and REB in the board, maindeck PtE, etc.).
How do you guys handle decks with alot of discard? Specifically if you are on the draw? Like eva green, or pox.
How do you find the Zoo matchup to be? It wasn't in the OP. My Zoo build seems to be around even against Dreadstill (more testing is needed, though), but it also has a lot more hate than most (Shusher, Grip, and REB in the board, maindeck PtE, etc.).



I actually need to test this match up more before I can give a solid percentage for it. I've played against it a few times here in my meta to success. Last week I beat it 2-0 in the semi-finals but he didn't draw a single Qasali Pridemage or Grip. His Vexing Shusher was destroyed by E.E., REB's we're a small bump but he never hit anything major with it. And I don't remember seeing his Swords. So more testing is still needed but I would have to say maybe a 55/45 preboard in Dreadstill's favor and probably 50/50 post. Don't quote me on it though.

How do you guys handle decks with alot of discard? Specifically if you are on the draw? Like eva green, or pox.



Very carefully. I hate Eva Green and don't see Pox in my meta. Eva is another match up I need to test against more. Their discard spells have the ability to cripple our first three turns (Dreadnought/Stifle, Counterbalance/Top). I can't say much more about this match up, I need to test it more. On to brighter news. I placed first at the Legacy constructed event and got myself a Foil set of Mirrodin playing this going 5-1-0:



The Wash Out is only in there because I thought I was going to play against Progenitus but I don't think it even showed up.

R1: UGb Counterbalance Coatl? 0-1
G1: I had to mull to 5. He resolved Dark Confidant on turn two and kept flipping lands off of him and then drawing business spells for the turn. Shortly after he resolves a Goyf, Lorescale Coatl, and a Umezawa's Jitte (I drew no counters). My Goyf can't stand up to his and he removes counter off Jitte to give it +4/+4 to start game 2.

G2: I draw all my answer this time and resolve Dreadnought/Trickbind on third turn, he scoops before my fifth turn.

G3: Was a close one, we kept each other at least 1 life point away from each other every turn until he manages to resolve another Jitte, equips to Goyf, I can't find my answers, and game one was repeated.

R2: Mono R Burn 1-1
G1: I showed up 13 minutes before sign ups closed, I was in a mad rush and forgot to write down the single Echoing Truth I had main board on my decklist sheet and was informed right before game one and recieved a game loss for it. They let me write it in and continue on since it was obvious I wasn't trying to cheat.

G2: He burns me down to 12 life while I'm beating face with a 4/5 Goyf and 2 Factory's.

G3: He manages to burn me to 1 through a Fork'd Fireblast and a Volcanic Fallout. I had manage to get him 10 life through Trinket Mage's and double Factory when I resolve Dreadnought and he draws a land instead of a burn spell.

R3: Ichorid 2-1
G1: He apparently has no choice but to mull to 5. I play real slow with my Stifle's and Daze's. Turn 4 I resolve a Mage and tutor for E.E., cast it for 0. Next turn Dreadnought/Sifle, he scoops before my next.

G2: I mull to 6 so I can get more counters and it pays off. He tries to Lion's Eye Diamond and Breakthrough turn 1 but Force says no. I Mage again for E.E. and drop it at 0, cast Dreadnought and sac it to remove the 2 Bridge from below he did have. He manages to get Ichorid in for 3 damage twice but he falls to Mage and double Factory.

R4: Mono R burn - different person than round 2, 3-1
G1: This is the meanest Mono R Burn I have ever played against. I resolved Dreadnought on third and kill on fifth but he got me to 4 life.

G2: My counters couldn't keep up with the burn. I resolve Dreadnought but he REB's my Stifle on turn 2. I cast Goyf the next turn but it's just not enough and Fireblast does me in.

G3: Was real close. He managed to get me to 2 life before the 2nd turn Dreadnought does him in.

R5: Semi-Finals Mono U Merfolk 4-1
G1: Turn 1 Aether Vial is Daze'd. Next he casts Cursecatcher followed by Merrow Reejerey the next turn. I manage to cast double Goyf by fourth turn and he Waste's my Trop (with another Goyf in hand) and can't find a fetch or another Trop. Combat goes back and forth until we eventually kill each others creatures and the board is clean. I finally resolve Dreadnought with Force back up 3 turns later ftw. I was at 6 and he was at 4.

G2: This is a fast game. Second or third turn Dreadnought/Trickbind does him in.

R6: BGRW Survival 5-1
G1: For some reason I can't remember too much about game 1. I know I Snare'd his Survival of the Fittest and Force'd the next one. I belive it was a single 5/6 Goyf and a Factory that does it for me.

G2: Was crazy. Turn 1 I cast Needle and name Survival. Turn 2 I cast Counterbalance. His Turn 3 he tries to resolve a Choke I blind flip a Trinket Mage (LSV chuckles in the background and makes a Counterbalance joke, everyone laughs). Turn 4 he cast Pernicious Deed and it gets a Daze, turn 5 another Deed that meets a Force, Turn 6 his Goyf meets a blind flipped Trickbind (more chuckles). I use that Bind to cast Dreadnought and 2 turns later... we all know what happened.

PS: Don't knock on my 3 Goyf, 3 has been amazing for me. And the fourth Dreadnought and second Bind are insane topdecks. Let me know what you think.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I actually need to test this match up more before I can give a solid percentage for it. I've played against it a few times here in my meta to success. Last week I beat it 2-0 in the semi-finals but he didn't draw a single Qasali Pridemage or Grip. His Vexing Shusher was destroyed by E.E., REB's we're a small bump but he never hit anything major with it. And I don't remember seeing his Swords. So more testing is still needed but I would have to say maybe a 55/45 preboard in Dreadstill's favor and probably 50/50 post. Don't quote me on it though.

Sounds about right.

Grats on the win, btw. I'm no Dreadstill expert, but I have to question a full set of Nought vs. only 3 Tarmogoyf.
Grats on the win, btw. I'm no Dreadstill expert, but I have to question a full set of Nought vs. only 3 Tarmogoyf.

Thank you, that foil set was a nice addition to my Mirrodin block book. I've been playing UGr for quite a while now and I have noticed that Goyf is almost like Daze, Standstill, or even Counterbalance in a way for this deck. You want to see them and cast them but too many in hand can weaken your overall game.

I always used to play 4 Goyf and would either end up with too many in my opening hand forcing me to pull out my Trop's leaving me open to Wasteland earlier than I wanted to, normally only being able to drop one before the Trop is destroyed (in some situations) forcing me to fall back on the Dreadnought plan. But with only 3 Dreadnought drawing one was somewhat difficult leaving me to tutor one out with Trinket Mage tipping my opponent off about my next turn play. I normally want to pull out a Needle/E.E. or get my Top when I dropped my CB the turn before. It's also really nice when you can resolve a Dreadnought, your opponent Swords it or something, and you drop another the following turn... it's hilarious.

So basically for the same reason I finally dropped down to 2 Daze (which is great by the way) I came down to 3 Goyf, and with the extra room it just made sense for me to go back up to 4 Dreadnought, 2 Trickbind, either one is like topdecking gold with the other in hand. Goyf is great back up for this deck but I want to see Dreadnought more. They both die to the same destruction, they both cost me a total of 2 (sometimes 3 for Dreadnought) mana to get them on the board, but one is a 12/12 with trample that gives the other +2/+2 when it hits the yard and so far has been working out great, I hope it catches on.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
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I can definitely see that reasoning. Does it end up giving you dead cards in hand more often than you would like?

Why the 1-of Echoing Truth?
I can definitely see that reasoning. Does it end up giving you dead cards in hand more often than you would like?

Why the 1-of Echoing Truth?

Not really, Stifle and Trickbind are useful for other things besides Dreadnought, and with Dreadnought in hand one of those two cards is always a great topdeck.

Well, I really wanted some bounce main board and couldn't find a place for it, the second E.E. at times would be... meh, so I figured Truth and E.E. are similar cards in a way. I use the E.E. at 0 for tokens, 1 for annoying creatures like Lackey/Mongoose or whatever, 2 for Goyf's/slivers or a Jitte/opposing CB even. Truth hits tokens, name Goyf or something they have multiples of, or just bounce that Tombstalker. I've won a couple of games being able to bounce double Goyf and swing with Mage and Factory. I like it, but I kind of want to replace it with Wipe Away for the split second and 3 casting cost, but that would take from my main board cards against decks like Ichorid/Belcher or Merfolk even (bounce double Reejerey, lol).
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Hi Xero, thanks for the list.

3 Tarmo/4 Dread makes sense, the extra trickbind is quite versatile as well.


You prefer 3 Counterbalance/2 Top to 4 and 3? Counterbalance seems so strong to me.

1 Needle main over an EE is also interesting.

Would you play the Echoing truth again? How would you feel about cutting it for a 22nd land (a 3rd Volcanic Island probably). Seems helpful for consistency and to reduce how much you are hurt by things like Wasteland, Stifle, Sinkhole.

How do you feel about lightning bolts in the deck (or sideboard)?
Hi Xero, thanks for the list.

3 Tarmo/4 Dread makes sense, the extra trickbind is quite versatile as well.


You prefer 3 Counterbalance/2 Top to 4 and 3? Counterbalance seems so strong to me.

1 Needle main over an EE is also interesting.

Would you play the Echoing truth again? How would you feel about cutting it for a 22nd land (a 3rd Volcanic Island probably). Seems helpful for consistency and to reduce how much you are hurt by things like Wasteland, Stifle, Sinkhole.

How do you feel about lightning bolts in the deck (or sideboard)?

Hello Alexfrog, no problem.

Counterbalance is really strong, your right there. I think it's just my preference to run the 3/2 split. The 4/3 split does increase your consistency of drawing and resolving them but I don't think they are necessarily needed to make sure you do drop them. If it's not online by second turn you have other routes to victory/control like Factory/Standstill or Dreadnought/Stifle.

Well I have the Truth over E.E. because they can basically do the same thing for me. The Needle main is great and in a lot of situations it can wreck some decks like Survival or Affinity. Or a good example is 2 weeks ago I knew I was going to play RGW Zoo, turn 1 he drops Delta and digs out a land, my turn 1 I cast Needle and name Wooded Foothills, his second turn he drops Foothills as his second land and says go with a 2/2 Nacatl.

At the moment I'm going to continue top play the Truth main as it's my second card main board against deck like Ichorid/Belcher. I've tried 20 lands and think it works fine, I've also tried 22 lands and you can kind of get land heavy going that route. I think 21 is the sweet spot for lands in this deck. The 3rd Volc isn't needed with no R main board, and if you get basic lands out early the only thing you have to worry about (normally) is Sinkhole, playing control we know how to avoid our fetchland's from being Stifle'd, I can't remember the last time my Delta or Strand was Stifle'd.

Bolt is interesting and have been thinking for a while now about how to get additional reach but I'm just not sure about Bolt. Normally Goyf is all the extra reach we need, I've also thought about Fire/Ice but not sure about it's consistency. We have Firespout/Pyroclasm in the board already for creatures and the normal 1 for 1 trade between Bolt and a creature of choice doesn't seem too enticing for me, but I guess it could use some testing.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Not really, Stifle and Trickbind are useful for other things besides Dreadnought, and with Dreadnought in hand one of those two cards is always a great topdeck.

Well, I really wanted some bounce main board and couldn't find a place for it, the second E.E. at times would be... meh, so I figured Truth and E.E. are similar cards in a way. I use the E.E. at 0 for tokens, 1 for annoying creatures like Lackey/Mongoose or whatever, 2 for Goyf's/slivers or a Jitte/opposing CB even. Truth hits tokens, name Goyf or something they have multiples of, or just bounce that Tombstalker. I've won a couple of games being able to bounce double Goyf and swing with Mage and Factory. I like it, but I kind of want to replace it with Wipe Away for the split second and 3 casting cost, but that would take from my main board cards against decks like Ichorid/Belcher or Merfolk even (bounce double Reejerey, lol).

I suppose. It just seems like having 4 Dreadnoughts means you always want to have a Stifle effect in hand, but you also want to be playing Stifle because it's just such a good card.
I suppose. It just seems like having 4 Dreadnoughts means you always want to have a Stifle effect in hand, but you also want to be playing Stifle because it's just such a good card.

You are correct sir, that's why there is two Trickbind.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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You are correct sir, that's why there is two Trickbind.

Yeah, I noticed. I'm still not sure that 6 Stifle effects are enough for 4 Dreadnought, but whatever. If it works, then it works.
Yeah, I noticed. I'm still not sure that 6 Stifle effects are enough for 4 Dreadnought, but whatever. If it works, then it works.

I believe you said it best sir.

I'm no Dreadstill expert

Just took 1st again with this going 5-1-0:



R1: Elf Combo? 1-0

G1: I can't remember all the names of the elves he was playing because they were sub-par. Turn 1 Essence Warden, turn 2 some elf that when you tap it you gain 1 life for each Elf you control, turn 3 another one that put 1/1 elf tokens into play. No Wirewood Symbiote or the normal elf combo cards. I resolve Dreadnought on turn 3 and we go for about another 4 turns with him gaining life and I eventually dwindle him down.

G2: I make huge play mistakes the whole game but manage to wipe the board twice with Firespout and Wash Out but it's not enough, Jagged-Scar Archers and Drove of Elves are huge and do me in.

G3: I resolve Dreadnought second and third turn ftw.

R2: Progenitus 2-0

G1: I've been sworn to secrecy about this list so I can't give details. I finally get a Dreadnought to stick like turn 8 or 9 right before he resolves a Progenitus when he is at 6 life. I play Factory the following turn to keep it bay another turn while the Dreadnought does 2 each turn and he scoops for game 2.

G2: Grr, I can't give details but he wins this game.

G3: Now apparently there was a house rule for this shop, at time if there is no winner instead of drawing the person with the highest life total at the end of the 5 turns wins. He had tapped himself out and I got in with double Factory to make me the higher life total. I drew Wash Out twice in this match up.

R3: Landstill 3-0

G1: This match up (or just his deck at least) has a hard time dealing with Dreadnought on third turn. He never drew Swords to Plowshares and resolved Pernicious Deed too late.

G2: Third turn Dreadnought with Force back up and no Swords, ftw.

R4: Eva Green 3-1

R1: Was way too long. I resolve Dreadnought on third turn and get in with it once before he Diabolic Edict's me with no other creature on board. I get in with Factory a couple of turns before he Wastes it. I resolve CB/Top, double Force on double Tombstalker. I have him at 1 when I cast Goyf, then he cast Goyf, then I cast another Goyf, then so does he. I'm fetching and Toping to find answer then he cast E.E. @ 2 and blows up all 4 Goyf and my CB. He resolves Nantuko Shade and my factory hold it off a turn but he gets in with it.

R2: He Dark Rituals into Thoughtseize and I Force to keep my hand and he uses the other 2 to cast Umezawa'a Jitte. I resolve Goyf and two turns later Dreadnought and he just has no answers.

R3: Getting close to time. He gets Jitte on a Goyf and I chump with Factory while I'm at 18, he's at 16, he removes the counters off of Jitte to gain 4 life and put him at 20. My turn is the 5th turn after time, I resolve Dradnought and Goyf through drawing with Top but he has the higher life total.

Top4 R5: Progenitus again 4-1

G1: I come out aggressive as heck. Turn 2 Dreadnought, turn 3 Goyf, he has no answers, we go to game 2.

G2: Surprisingly the same as game 1. Aggressive second turn Dreadnought and third turn Goyf before he gets anything. This was a really fast and quite surprising turn out because I did not expect to win so easily.

R6: ZeroCool 5-1

G1: I draw E.E., Dreadnought and 5 lands. Cast E.E. @ 0 and pass. He casts turn 1 Xantid Swarm. His turn 3 he starts to combo by Glimpse of Nature then drops all these 0 casting cost Kobolds and Ornithopter's, Shield Sphere's, Phyrexian Walker's then tries to Retract them all but in response I blow E.E. destroying them all. Next turn Dreadnought and with extra Stifle's/Trickbind and half of his combo pieces gone we go to game 2.

G2: Simian Spirit Guide+Chrome Mox to cast Vexing Shusher turn 1 and at his End Step I destroy it with Blue Elemental Blast. With Stifle and a Trickbind in hand I slow play and watch him. He tries to go off again and Grapeshot's me for like 28 but I Stifle the storm. I resolve Goyf but it almost doesn't matter because has like 15 creaures all 0/1, 0/2, 0/3, and a 0/6 Shield Sphere. Echoing Truth on double Xantid Swarm so I can Stifle. I topdeck a Firespout to sweep his board and Goyf gets in for 5. He keeps trying to combo but can't get anything together or find another Storm combo piece. I resolve Dreadnought the next turn and he scoops on his turn at 15 life because he can't combo.

I believe the whole store voted to drop the highest life total wins rule because it wasn't really fair I guess. 4 Dreadnought 6 Stifle affects and 3 Goyf are still working great . The Truth comes in handy as bounce and double removal so I'm sticking with it. Thoughts?
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Needs moar goyf (though if it works go for it)

Aside from that, looks good. I like 2 Trinket Mages...is there a reason for the low fetch count? More basic Islands I assume?
Needs moar goyf (though if it works go for it)

Aside from that, looks good. I like 2 Trinket Mages...is there a reason for the low fetch count? More basic Islands I assume?

Lol, I hear that from everyone. I hope someone who can make it to big events on a more regular basis can test it out to see how it does in a bigger field.

That would be correct. I've always ran 6 fetch anyway and with the extra Islands... you got it.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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This should help answer some questions about Lightning Bolt and Fire/Ice main board:

www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=28370

With 4-5 other decks in the Top 8 being aggro based.... the extra reach does not look like it pulls it's weight for the deck. Thoughts?
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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I wanted to create a composite list for Ugr Dreadstill (in the manner of Karsten's Composite Fairies), combining the most common elements of all the decks that Xero linked above. I included his new list, but inlcuded only one fo the two duplicate lists that were 1st/2nd at some tournament, and had wierd stuff like Crucible of Worlds.

I created this composite list by taking the average of all 10 lists, and including the most common cards.

To get to the conclusion first, here is the final decklist:


Composite Ugr Dreadstill (60 cards):

3 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Trickbind
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Fire/Ice

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island

Sideboard (15):

3 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle


Here is how I created the list:

Lands:

The following cards were near universal, at least 9 decks:
3 Mishras Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical
2 Volcanic
3 Island

That is 18 lands. Since 21 land was by far the most common number, we have 3 slots to fill.
For those missing three lands, the most common fill ins are:

4th Mishra's Factory (8/10 decks)
3rd Polluted Delta (8/10 decks)
3rd Tropical Island (6/10 decks)
4th Island (5/10 decks)
3rd Volcanic Island (3/10 decks)
1 Academy Ruins (1/10 decks)

The most common configuration for the deck is:
4 Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island

If a 22nd land is included, it would probably be a basic island.\
The 4th basic island barely missed the cut, but it was present in half the decklists.

Spells:
The following spells were nearly universal (at least 9 decks)

3 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Trickbind
4 Stifle
3 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
(32)

This is the deck's core, and when combined with 21 lands, it accounts for 53 cards.
We have 7 slots remaining.

The most common additional cards of these types are:

4th Tarmogoyph (6/10)
3rd Daze (5/10)
4th Standstill (5/10)
2nd Engineered Explosives (4/10)
3rd Trinket Mage (4/10)
4th Counterbalance (3/10)
3rd Top (3/10)
4th Dreadnaught (2/10)
4th Daze (2/10)
22nd Land (2/10)
2nd Trickbind (1/10)

And for cards which we have 0 in the list so far, this many copies of those cards were present among the 10 lists:
Cardname Total Copies
Spell Snare 12
Ponder 5
Fire/Ice 4
LightningBlt 2
SowerofTempt 2
CrucibleOfW 2
PithingNeedl 2
Tormod's 1
EchoingTruth 1

Filling the 7 slots with the most common cards gives us:

1 Spell Snare (12/10)
4th Tarmogoyf (6/10)
3rd Daze (5/10)
4th Standstill (5/10)
1 Ponder (5/10)

And two of:
2nd EngineeredExplosives (4/10)
3rd Trinket Mage (4/10)
1 Fire/Ice (4/10)

Since most decks used 9 creatures, and we have 9 already, I will not choose the Trinket Mage.

Here is the final maindeck list:

3 Dreadnaught
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 Force of WIll
1 Trickbind
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Fire/Ice

4 Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island


Sideboard:
While the sideboard is more varied, the following cards are present in at least 7 lists:
2 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
2 Krosan Grip
3 Firespout
2 Tormod's Crypt (A total of 20 tormods were present, with highly variant #s, so I put 2)

Thats 10 of our slots.
Here are the most common additions, that appeared in at least 2 decks, based on # of total copies among the decks:

Relic of Progenitus: 6
Additional BEBlast: 6
Ancient Grudge: 6
Additional REBlast: 4
Needle: 4
Additional Krosan: 2

Pyroclasm: 3 (Pyroclasm was only present in decks with less than 3 firespout)
Eng Ex: 4 (All were in decks with 1 EE main. We have 2 EE main so I wont include it)

We will add these 5 cards to get to 15:
1 Relic of Progenitus
+1 BEBlast
1 Ancient Grudge
+1 REBlast
1 Needle

Therefore our sideboard for Composite Ugr Dreadstill is:

3 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle


Here are the cards that didnt make the cut:

Land that didnt make it:
4th Island (5/10 decks)
3rd Volcanic Island (3/10 decks)
1 Academy Ruins (1/10 decks)
22nd Land (2/10)

Cards that didnt make it: (Are they hidden tech, or bad choices?)
3rd Trinket Mage (4/10)
4th Counterbalance (3/10)
3rd Top (3/10)
2nd Spell Snare (2/10)
4th Dreadnaught (2/10)
4th Daze (2/10)
Lightning Bolt (2/10)
Sower of Temptation (2/10)
Crucible Of Worlds (2/10)
Pithing Needle (2/10)
2nd Trickbind (1/10)
Tormod's Crypt (1/10)
Echoing Truth (1/10)

Sideboard:
Pyroclasm (3)
Propaganda (3)
Sower of Temptation (2)
Submerge (2)
Gilded Drake (2)
Echoing Truth (2)
Threads of Disloyalty (2)
Vexing Shusher (2)
Magus of the Moon (2) ???!?
Trygon Predator (1)
Wipe Away (1)
Washout (1)


Again, the final list:
Composite Ugr Dreadstill (60 cards):

3 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
1 Trickbind
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Fire/Ice

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island

Sideboard (15):

3 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
3 Firespout
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle



Of course, by its nature, the composite list is probably an average Dreadstill list, or somewhat above average, given that its includsions are probably stronger than its cuts, due to group intelligence. However, it is probably not the optimal list, as some decision which is included in a couple lists contains the strongest choices.

Its a good way to get started on Dreadstill, and also a good deck to make up to test against, as it combines the most common elements across many lists.
In addition to the composite list, I wanted to make my own list, attempting to combine intelligence from Xero's list as well as comments from several other legacy discussion boards.

Here are the decisions I made:

Decision #1: How many Dreadnoughts?

I really like Xero's 4 Dreadnought idea, especially in game 1, where your opponent hasnt brought in answers against it. Your opponent is more likely to have a solid dreadnought answer post-board than pre-board, as they will bring in artifact destruction, creature destuction such as swords to plowshares, and other things such as bounce. Since these sideboard cards are strong against this part of your plan, you can always sideboard one out. This could make it easier to find cards to board out in these matchups.

Since we have increased the dreadnought count, we also need an additional Trickbind. This isnt a bad thing, as Stifle and Trickbind are extremely useful effects. In addition to allowing dreadnought, they can be land destuction (against fetchlands), land protection (against wasteland), and provide many other versatile effects and protection against win conditions (counter their grindstone or belcher activation, for example). Trickbind is also useful in that people will allow your dreadnought to resolve, planning to counter stifle, and then they cannot counter your trickbind! This will happen twice as often with two trickbinds.

I like the plan of trying to maximize the game 1 win chance with 4 Dreadnoughts, followed by potentially boarding out one plus a trickbind, if we expect them to be worse post-board.

4 Dreadnought
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind


Decision #2: How many Counterbalance and Top?

Dreadstill lists run anywhere from 2/2 to 4/3 in terms of number of counterbalance/top. While I certainly can't fault anyone for running the maximum of this powerful combo, its probalby also true that it is weaker in dreadstill than in a traditional countertop list. Here are some factors in the decision:

* Lack of non 0-2 cost cards in the main deck. We basically have about 2-3 three cost cards in Trinket Mages and thats it!

* We have many more things to do on turn 1 besides play top. In particular, we might want to stifle an opponents fetchland activation, or cast spell snare.

* Our plan does not require the soft-lock of Counter/Top on the board in order to win. Unlike many countertop decks, we have three plans for winning the game:
1) Dreadnought/Stifle or Tarmogoyf beats.
2) Counter/Top lock.
3) Standstill/Factory beats + Wasteland.

We combine any of these plans together and add disruption in the form of stifle+wasteland for land destruction, and force of will/daze/spell snare for protection.

Our Dreadnought kill can be so effective and fast, that many times it trumps our other strategies and makes them unnecessary.

* The average numbers of these cards among the winning Dreadstill lists I have seen is 3/2. Given that I have already chosen to add a Dreadnought and Trickbind above the usual list, I would have to seriously cut back on utility/removal cards in order to incorporate more of these into the list.

Therefore:

3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Decision #3: How many Tarmogoyf?

Most lists run 4, but Xero's 4 Dreadnought list runs 3, stating that he doesnt like to have 2 in hand to start.

However, I will chooes to add 4, based on the following:

* Tarmogoyf is just such a strong card overall.
* It is strong defensively, blockign other goyfs and most other stuff as well, allowing us to survive.
* It eats up removal spells like Swords to Plowshares so that the bigger investment, Dreadnought, can survive.
* It increases our chance of having some threat that we can play. Having a good clock applying pressure increases the effectiveness of our disruption such as our land destruction and counterspells. I like the aggro-control aspect of my list, putting out a strong threat and hindering our opponent's ability to deal with it. I have 8 strong threats instead of the standard 7.

4 Tarmogoyf

Decision #4: How many Standstill?

Its a pretty even split between 3 and 4 among the lists. I decided on 3 because it will be less effective against any opposing deck that plays standstill. In a mirror match, it is 50-50 whether it will be good, depending on who gets a threat out or has more Factories+Wastelands. Against a 'true' standstill deck, they have a bit more cards that are strong under standstill than we do. Merfolk also plays standstill and theirs are better than ours due to having Aether Vial in addition to their Mutavault/Wasteland. Finally, standstill is terrible against Life from the Loam decks, and probably bad against Ichorid.

3 Standstill


The following cards are essentially universal in Dreadstill and make the list:

2 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze

Bringing us to:

4 Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage

4 Stifle
2 Trickbind

4 Force of Will
2 Daze
4 Brainstorm

3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill

Thats 34 cards. We have 5 slots + 21 lands left.


Decision #5: The remaining slots.

For the 5 slots, we have the following cards vying for contention:

Additional Countermagic:
Spell Snare
Additional Daze

Removal:
Engineered Explosives
Fire/Ice or Lightning Bolt
Firespout or Pyroclasm
Bounce (Echoing Truth or Rushing River)

22nd Land (For added resilience to Wasteland/Sinkhole/Nonbasic Hate)

Versatility (artifact search package):
Additional Trinket Mage
Pithing Needle
Tormod's Crypt
Relic of Progenitus

Maindeck artifact/enchantment hate:
Krosan Grip
Ancient Grudge


I know I need at least some removal (I havent even put in any EEs yet).

One Engineered Explosives is guaranteed and I am pretty sure I want a 2nd. If I play one I will want one in the board, so playing it maindeck frees up that slot. I will generally want to get one during the game, and while I can fetch it with trinket mage, the time it takes to do this can be costly, and I might want to fetch Dreadnought or Top instead.

2 Engineered Explosives

While I like Fire/Ice and Lightning Bolt, I think they are stronger out of the board against aggro. They are poor in some matchups, whereas EE is pretty much always good. I will not maindeck them. Same goes for the sweepers, they are sideboard cards. I like my chances of beating aggro in game 1 by racing with Dreadnought. And I like my chances of beating them game 2 after bringing in sweepers + targetted removal + relevant elemental blasts. Additionally, running no red spells main makes it easier to run only 2 Volcanic Islands.

The additional trinket mage seems slow (drawing 2 is a very slow hand), and I am at 10 creatures already (high for Dreadstill). The versatility package is neat, but I already have three targets for trinket mage, in Dreadnought, Top, and EE. While Needle or maindeck graveyard hate is nice, I'm not convinced that its the best use of the slot.

The graveyard hate seems poor in many matchups. And while Relic of Progenitus cycles, it hoses all my tarmogoyfs while it does so, which seems very bad.

Maindeck Krosan seems better than Ancient Grudge, but again I am not convinced its the best use of the slot.

For pretty much any of these, I am trying to compare the benefit against the added consistency of an additional basic island. Generally the island is worth more percentage points, as it reduces mulligans and vulnerability.

I know I want more countermagic, spell snare is very strong and counters most of the most powerful and heavily played spells in the format. I want at least 2. Additional Dazes are interesting as well, but if my opponent is playing around them they might not be as effective, and they hurt my tempo as well.

I am going to go with:

2 Spell Snare
1 Additional Land


If I was going to cut the land it would probalby be for spell snare #3.


Decision #6: The manabase.

Playing 22 lands makes it a lot easier. Here is how I would play the first 21:
4 Mishra's Factory (maximizing my threats and defensive ability, and it plays well with standstill).
3 Wasteland
6 Fetchlands (3 Delta 3 Strand)
5 Dual Lands (3 Tropical 2 Volcanic)
3 Island

Part of my decision to go 22 land is to make this a lot easier. I wish I had room for another Volcanic, and I wish I had room for another Island, to be more resilient to nonbasic hate. I get to shore up one of these weaknesses with my 22nd land, and I chose the Island over the red source.

The maindeck I will be testing is therefore:

4 Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage

4 Stifle
2 Trickbind

4 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island

Sideboard:

The sideboard I am using right now will be:

3 Firespout
2 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
The maindeck I will be testing is therefore:

4 Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage

4 Stifle
2 Trickbind

4 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island

Sideboard:

The sideboard I am using right now will be:

3 Firespout
2 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
3 Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast
2 Submerge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth

I like it but.... running only 3 Standstill the 4th Factory is not really needed, -1 Factory +1 Spell Snare. You didn't cover Submerge at all I believe but it's in your side, seems strong but I think Sower of Temptation might be better in that slot. Also -1 BEB/Hydroblast +1 REB/Pyroblast, we need the REB's more for control match ups and pesky creatures like Rhox War Monk/Sower of Temptation/Master of Etherium and annoying cards like CB or Back to Basics.

I'm overhauling my list again. After huge upsets yesterday from my local shop mainboarding K-Grips for me (RGW Zoo and 2 NLU builds) I need to do something. The 4th Dreadnought and 2nd Bind have been amazing game 1, not only for helping to get Dreadnought to stick but they help so much against almost any combo match up (yes, I'm talking about you ZeroCool). I normally find myself siding at least 1 Dreadnought and Bind out game 2 against the Grip match ups and have been thinking about siding the 4th Goyf for this situation because they seem to be more reliable drops game 2 since you opponent is worrying about the Dreadnought and not Goyf. I use the mainboard Echoing Truth every time I pull it bouncing anything relevant but I'm not sure it's pulling it's wait or is right for the spot. The mainboard Needle has been great too, especially against Zoo/Merfolk naming cards like Qasali Pridemage/Wooded Foothills or Mutavault/Aether Vial, but again I'm not sure if it's the best option for the slot mainboard.

I used to be a hardcore advocate of 3x Daze but recently dropped it to 2 and love it, but now I'm starting to think we don't need it at all. It really slows us down and most competent players always play around it making it dead in my hand anyway. I can easily find a 2 card replacement for it (4th CB and 3rd Top). Or would dropping them hurt the whole mana denial thing we have going on too much? But only at 2 Daze we aren't denying too much mana to begin with besides the 4 Stifle and 3 Wasteland. <-- Really interested to hear peoples thoughts on this.

As far as a good composite UGr list:



That's pretty standard and a very strong build. The SB can be suited to your own play style.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Nobody has any thoughts about completely removing Daze from the UGr builds? I know it's kind of a leap but there are several competitive decks out there now that don't run Daze at all while still maintaing a good counter shell. 4x Stifle, 1-2x Trickbind and 3x Wasteland is still a pretty good mana denial shell. Would removing the remaining 2 Daze really make a huge difference? Being able to add more resilience to the deck in the form of another CB/Top seems really good.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Not sure about removing Daze, I dont have enough experience to know how good it is.
My playgroup is putting together a gauntlet of the top decks and I'm wondering your opinion on 3 or 4 Standstills and counterbalance. Is there a meta where the numbers should be different? I see lists with 3/3 3/4 4/3 4/4 of Standstill and CB.
My playgroup is putting together a gauntlet of the top decks and I'm wondering your opinion on 3 or 4 Standstills and counterbalance. Is there a meta where the numbers should be different? I see lists with 3/3 3/4 4/3 4/4 of Standstill and CB.

If your just looking for a basic shell, would use 4/4 Factory/Standstill and usually 3/2 CB/Top. would use 3/3 Factory/Standstill and it'
s really up to the player but normally 3/2 or 4/3 CB/Top. Those two card slots interchange pretty well.

If you expect to see a lot of combo you should probably go with 4/3 CB/Top as standstill does not help very much against this kind of decks unless it hits the board on second turn and they didn't resolve any threats before then, but even then you normally want to keep mana open against combo unless you can drop a CB.

In a more aggro based meta either CB/Top or Factory/Standstill can be useful. A second turn Factory into Standstill can hold off their first turn creature and forces them to break the Still, and a Force to a Vial forces them to play cards so CB/Top can be really useful.

In a more control oriented meta definitely go 4/3 CB/Top and 3/3 Factory/Still because you will be siding out Still every game two and CB/Top will help you counter their counters and normally most of their threats. For instance, a resolved CB/Top shuts down the Dreadnought/Stifle plan for this deck, CB can even trigger with Trickbind on the stack.

For my build I'm working on now I'm playing 3/3 Factory/Still and 4/3 CB/Top, if that helps you at all.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Ok I was testing the UGR build in the last post vs Lorestill and was getting crushed. Sower and Vendillion clique are beating along with the fact that they can operate under Standstill just as well as I can.

I agree that Daze seemed subpar as he would just play into Daze to force the tempo loss. How do you feel about adding a fourth Spell Snare and some Fire/Ice to kill Sower, win Goyf wars, more ways to kill Factorys.
I agree that Daze seemed subpar as he would just play into Daze to force the tempo loss. How do you feel about adding a fourth Spell Snare and some Fire/Ice to kill Sower, win Goyf wars, more ways to kill Factorys.

I want more reach in this deck but I'm not sure the inclusions of cards like Lightning Bolt or Fire // Ice are worth the cards you would be taking out considering the fact that they would only show up every once in a while and seem situational to an extent. I can't say for sure because I have not tested them yet but there have been a few decks that have used them to some good. Fire/Bolt do seem good to some extents.... needs moar testing.

I would love a 4th Snare as that card is great but I think it might be too many or you would have to change the counter suit (probably for the worse) to fit it in.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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A problem with 4 standstill is that there are decks out there that are better under standstill than you are, like any Life from the Loam deck, Merfolk (with a threat or an Aether Vial), and against other standstill decks its often 50-50 who is better positioned. 3 seems good.

Regarding Daze, the tempo loss does hurt, unless you are light on lands in your hand. Daze definitely makes Top worse, as you dont have as much mana available.

I could see removing Daze for say, a Spell Snare and a removal spell like Bolt or Fire/Ice, or to include the extra Counterbalance/Top.



A note: I played 4 games against a friend's Ad Nauseum Tendrils deck last night, winning all 4. He had a couple bad hands however. Fast dreadnought is vrey good against it, especially when combined with counters. One game I hit for 15 on turn 3 with Dreadnought + Factory + Factory pump, then he cast Ad Nauseum at 5 life the next turn and died.
Daze was actually good in that matchup, it countered things like Chrome Mox with no land, and Dark Ritual off the one mana source.
Here's a sample list I'm "thinking" about running without Daze so it's not set in stone or anything. The Shackles seems great with the amount of Islands we do run and it's another 3 casting cost card for CB since I bumped it up to 4. I can easily lose the Shackles at anytime for the 2 Daze. Getting 2 for 1'd all day Saturday at my local shop I think made me learn my lesson on the 4th Dreadnought and 2nd Trickbind main (though they are still really good against a lot of decks). I would like to get some thoughts on this before I go to my next tourney just in case I decide to change it before then.




EDIT: Changed SB, -2 Wipe Away, +1 Sower +1 Gilded Drake.
I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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Figured I drop by an updated list since it's been a while and I'm working on another deck at the moment, enjoy:


UGR Dreadstill
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Trinket Mage


4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
1x Trickbind
1x Krosan Grip
3x Standstill
3x Counterbalance
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Pithing Needle
1x Engineered Explosives


3x Mishra's Factory
3x Wasteland
3x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
4x Island
3x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island


SB:
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Firespout
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Krosan Grip
1x Pithing Needle
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus

I play Legacy only, and a little EDH. 2009 UGr Dreadstill 1st place KC Legacy Nationals UGR Tempo Thresh ***th place GP Chicago BUG Vial Affinity Petal Powered Ichorid EDH MonoU Arcum'sLattice I am Blue/Green
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back to four goyf. good job :D

I love what the new fetches do for this deck.  Being able to fetch any basic is very important in some situations.

Basic forest is going to be a blowout for many decks, particularly Dragon Stompy (that deck has no answer to Goyf except massive maulers and/or arc slogger)