Legends & Lore: Fighter Maneuvers

Fighter Maneuvers

Legends & Lore

By Mike Mearls

 

Mike talks about the evolution and enduring popularity of the fighter in this week’s Legends & Lore.

 

Talk about this article here.

 

Fighter Maneuvers

 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

+1 for all this. 

 

But why "Battle Master" instead of "War Lord?"

The fighter getting both simple and more tactically complex builds sound like the best of both worlds with the Warrior path using simpler options and the now called Battle Master path using maneuvers powered by superiority dce. Battle Master sounds like fun to play and i hope even more maneuvers are designed to give it a wide variety of tricks to perform.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Nice, its lazylord time!

About the dragon like playable character in Newerwinter online...(the new in a 1st April?)... I think it would really cool, a dragonborn PC race and a new class mixture of dragon shaman and dragonfire adept. 

 

---

 

I love maneuvers from "Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords", but my opinion is the spell-like maneuvers shouldn´t be arcane magic but ki power source. Maneuvers are right to add a little touch of wuxia or anime/manga genre. But I ask "roleplaying actions" can be done without maneuvers, for example a rogue could "throw sand to eyes" without any maneuver, but the warrior with the "maneuver" "throwing sand to eyes" would do it better... like it if was a optional feat with a bonus (or penalty to enemy).

 

 

 

 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

And playing dragons in Neverwinter sounds too cool to not be April's fools! 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

bawylie wrote:

+1 for all this. 

 

But why "Battle Master" instead of "War Lord?"

 

Toxicity?

he mentions Disarm. How do they do it I wonder?

I am not a fan of martial types getting short-rest powers in general, but reserve judgment for now...

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

Plaguescarred wrote:

The fighter getting both simple and more tactically complex builds sound like the best of both worlds with the Warrior path using simpler options and the now called Battle Master path using maneuvers powered by superiority dce. Battle Master sounds like fun to play and i hope even more maneuvers are designed to give it a wide variety of tricks to perform.

 

I agree.  The battle master looks like the kind of thing a lot of people have been wanting.  I wonder where this leaves the weaponmaster?  Gone or is it still an option?

 

I hope they fix some of the issues with the warrior that many of us simple fighter players are concerned about.  

 

Here are the culprits...

1.  Great Weapon Fighting (DoaM) - maybe tolerable only because it's not required to be taken but as an archetypical feature it's intolerable.

2.  Second Wind (tolerable at the moment but not really wanted)

3.  Defy Death (tolerable but not loved)

4. Survivor (intolerable)

 

 

 

I dont think they called it warlord bc its more than just a warlord. It encompasses purely offensive maneuvers as well.

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

Well, finally the old granting an ally a move or attack, non-magically action, great news.  And forced movement.

 

Warlord is a bit controversial for a title (on several levels), it's caused a lot of debate since it debuted in the 4th Ed PHB.

All of this sounds good to me.

 

 

 

Emerikol wrote:

 

Plaguescarred wrote:

The fighter getting both simple and more tactically complex builds sound like the best of both worlds with the Warrior path using simpler options and the now called Battle Master path using maneuvers powered by superiority dce. Battle Master sounds like fun to play and i hope even more maneuvers are designed to give it a wide variety of tricks to perform.

 

 

I agree.  The battle master looks like the kind of thing a lot of people have been wanting.  I wonder where this leaves the weaponmaster?  Gone or is it still an option?

 

From the description in the article, it sounds like "battle master" is the new name for weaponmaster.  The mechanics are too similar for it to be a separate subclass.

"I want 'punch magic in the face' to be a maneuver." -- wrecan

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

 

I like War-Chief; The Warriors, baby.

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

Honestly Bawylie.  You know why.  They are distancing themselves from 4e.  That is the real reason.  Happy now?

 

I believe the battle master though is EXACTLY what I would have thought of the name warlord prior to 4e.  To me a warlord is a fighter who is so tough he rules his tribe by threat of personal one on one combat.  That is a warlord.  Healing never made sense to me for that name.   

A warlord-style fighter can take Commander's Strike, Maneuvering Attack, and Rally to serve as an effective combat leader.

Neat, looks like we'll be able to build a proper tactician, maybe focusing on INT and/or CHA.

 

Just one thing though: what's Rally? Is it in the latest playtest documents? I don't have them readily available right now.

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

I actually think battle master and warlord have fundamentally different connotations, because "warlord" is a real term with history and meaning of its own, and not just two words put together that retain their individual meaning unadulterated when combined.  To me, the archetypal swashbuckler might qualify as a "battle master," but not as a "warlord."

"I want 'punch magic in the face' to be a maneuver." -- wrecan

Hey even though I hate the idea of the battle master and everything it represents I LOVE LOVE LOVE that those of you that want that style of fighter are getting it.  

 

 

Emerikol wrote:

Hey even though I hate the idea of the battle master and everything it represents I LOVE LOVE LOVE that those of you that want that style of fighter are getting it.  

 

I'm grateful that you're happy for the rest of us, but your objections do baffle me sometimes.

 

Is it the resource mechanic that you don't like?  Would it work better for you if maneuvers operated on a conditional "if, then" basis?  I actually wouldn't mind seeing a module like that.

"I want 'punch magic in the face' to be a maneuver." -- wrecan

I think this is great! Build a fighter a la carte, just how you like it. The L&L articles have definitely been going up in quality lately!

Role Play Craft : Crafting Ideas, Modules, and Options for your Role Playing Game.

Awww....  i liked the "regain as an action".   But i supposed short rest helps keep things more balanced.

 

frothsof wrote:
Nice, its lazylord time!
Still seems like the bard's taking that one.

 

Paticularly if this is not a mistype.

 

 

  • Grant a bonus attack to an ally in place of one of your own attacks

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Seems interesting, but at the same time overly complicated. Using dice to get bonuses to your actions implies that you will have to initiate a contest to utilize some maneuvers and then roll your dice within that contest seems like it is adding an extra step into what should otherwise be a straightforward resolution system.

 

I'm also not sure how I feel about dice recovering on a short rest. With one hour long short rests, it seems like you will only get to utilize a maneuver once every 5 rounds of combat or so.

Yeah! Potentially a non-boring fighter. Can't wait to see the implementation.

 

Concerning the name. Does anyone really care? If it's called a warlord and it doesn't look like the 4e one, the 4e fans are going to whine and if it's called a warlord, the anti-martial healing camp is probably going to whine even before seeing the class. Both cases, you lose. You might as well give it another name and hope the 4haters don't notice that it has 75% of the 4e warlord's list of options.

Gnarl wrote:

Yeah! Potentially a non-boring fighter. Can't wait to see the implementation.

 

Concerning the name. Does anyone really care? If it's called a warlord and it doesn't look like the 4e one, the 4e fans are going to whine and if it's called a warlord, the anti-martial healing camp is probably going to whine even before seeing the class. Both cases, you lose. You might as well give it another name and hope the 4haters don't notice that it has 75% of the 4e warlord's list of options.

 

 

Yeah, imma just hafta grab a sharpie and rewrite it to say "Warlord" in my copy. 

souldoubt wrote:

 

Emerikol wrote:

Hey even though I hate the idea of the battle master and everything it represents I LOVE LOVE LOVE that those of you that want that style of fighter are getting it.  

 

 

I'm grateful that you're happy for the rest of us, but your objections do baffle me sometimes.

 

Is it the resource mechanic that you don't like?  Would it work better for you if maneuvers operated on a conditional "if, then" basis?  I actually wouldn't mind seeing a module like that.

 

Personally, for me when I play, I just prefer the simple fighter.  I want to hit hard often for tons of damage.  All my strategizing is positional.  The fighter is often the leader of the group strategically and tactically.

 

I don't want to prejudge the 5e battle master.  I am sure at least *some* of the manuevers are things I'll object to across the board.  I am not sure though if one of my players wanted to play it that I'd ban the class wholesale.    There might be sufficient manuevers that I could ban a few and still allow the class to exist.   

 

Now since a short rest is one hour, that makes everything dissociative but I've decided to make my short rests ten minutes.  I believe you get nothing from an hour that ten minutes won't get you.  So that would cover the DS issue.  If a die goes away for the day though then I'd probably say thats DS and not use it.   It's just hard to say.  

 

I'm not their target audience at all though and I doubt many of my players are either.  So I would advise them to not worry about me at all when it comes to the battle master and instead worry about me a lot when it comes to the warrior because that is what really matters to me.

 

 

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

Personally, when I hear 'Warlord' I imagine a ruthless tyrant a la Genghis Khan. Battle Master, however, sounds more neutral -- a student/teacher of armed combat. How likely are you to have a lawful good Warlord vs Battle Master? I mean, it's pretty subjective regardless, but I thought I'd take a crack at it anyway.

 

I'm liking what I see for the Fighter! Something for everyone.

Trill.

strider13x wrote:

he mentions Disarm. How do they do it I wonder?

I am not a fan of martial types getting short-rest powers in general, but reserve judgment for now...

Guessing....

 

Roll the d8, if you roll higher then the creatures dex, you disarm it.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

jtfowler wrote:

 

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

 

Personally, when I hear 'Warlord' I imagine a ruthless tyrant a la Genghis Khan. Battle Master, however, sounds more neutral -- a student/teacher of armed combat. How likely are you to have a lawful good Warlord vs Battle Master? I mean, it's pretty subjective regardless, but I thought I'd take a crack at it anyway.

 

I'm liking what I see for the Fighter! Something for everyone.

 

The dutch and german words that the word warlord seems to be based on had a difrent historical meaning.

Krijgsmeester or kriegsmeister, refered to any leader of soldiers that did not hold a military rank in a army of any nation recidnised by you.

 

So for example leaders of mercenary companies, leaders of any rebel factions.

Good point about the name Warlord that I hadn't thought of!  It definitely has a "Genghis Khan" connotation.  Imagine you are a new player.  The term itself has more cultural meaning than the more neutral "Battlemaster."  I like the terminology change. 

 

 

jtfowler wrote:
Personally, when I hear 'Warlord' I imagine a ruthless tyrant a la Genghis Khan. Battle Master, however, sounds more neutral -- a student/teacher of armed combat. How likely are you to have a lawful good Warlord vs Battle Master? I mean, it's pretty subjective regardless, but I thought I'd take a crack at it anyway.
Yeah, "warlord" to me says a) that you have a lot of experience and therefore can't be called one at 1st level and b) are a ruthless and petty tyrant ruling over your little patch in an otherwise lawless land (think Afghanistan or any number of central African countries).

 

Battle Master, on the other hand, makes me think of Syrio, Arya's swordfighting instructor in Game of Thrones.

 

I'm liking what I see for the Fighter! Something for everyone.
Yep, so there's the simple fighter who gets stuff like Improved Critical, and there's the tactician who gets maneuvers, and then there's the eldritch knight who gets spells.

 

mellored wrote:
Roll the d8, if you roll higher then the creatures dex, you disarm it.
I'd go with Strength rather than Dexterity, or maybe defender's choice of Str or Dex. Maybe give the defender advantage if it's a two-handed weapon.
"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G. Allen

LanethanAK wrote:

Good point about the name Warlord that I hadn't thought of!  It definitely has a "Genghis Khan" connotation.  Imagine you are a new player.  The term itself has more cultural meaning than the more neutral "Battlemaster."  I like the terminology change. 

 

 

Yes, I know some that associate the term "Warlord" with 3rd World local pseudo-militant dictator.

Now if we can just rename the rest of the classes that people find offensive....

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I have to give Mr. Mearls credit for admitting that the Fighter has long been the 'base-line' class, defined mainly by what it can't do, and serving mainly as something for everyone else to be superior to in some way. And for admitting that 4e finally did something about that.

Too bad he wasn't up to the challenge of emulating 4e and actually giving the fighter something meaningful. We've seen the weaponmaster's CS+manuevers before and they were wanting. That there are now purportedly 16 manuevers to fill in for the 400+ the fighter had in 4e instead of 6 is not a meaningful improvement - especially if they're meant to somehow cover the Warlord, as well.

And if 'Short' Rests stay an hour, they're hardly an encounter-based resource, either. 

 

Emerikol wrote:
bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

Honestly Bawylie.  You know why.  They are distancing themselves from 4e.  That is the real reason.  Happy now?

 

I believe the battle master though is EXACTLY what I would have thought of the name warlord prior to 4e.  To me a warlord is a fighter who is so tough he rules his tribe by threat of personal one on one combat.  That is a warlord.  Healing never made sense to me for that name.   

If it doesn't have inspirational healing, it's certainly not an adequate replacement for the Warlord.  That it also doesn't share the name makes it pretty clear.  It's not called Warlord because it's not a Warlord and not meant to be one.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

Brock_Landers wrote:

Yes, I know some that associate the term "Warlord" with 3rd World local pseudo-militant dictator.

That's pretty much the assumed definition nowadays.

bawylie wrote:
Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same.

 

To me, "battle" is a tactical thing. The "war" is strategic. A "master" has mastered something (like a set of manoeuvers), where the "lord" has command.

 

A battle master is a master tactician, and an expert with his chosen weapons in a single engagement. A warlord is a leader of people and directs the long-term strategy. They sound very different to me.

In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.

I absolutely love the direction they are headed. The fighter sounds like an awesome class with subclasses I can't wait to play. Give me a battle master swashbuckler, a battle master lazylord Princess, and an eldritch knight Bladesinger. Amazing flexibility, can't wait to play.

1 square =1 yard = 1 meter. "Fits all playstyles" the obvious choice Orzel is the mayor of Ranger-town. Favored enemies for Rangers
58033128 wrote:
Seems like community isn't going to give up calling mapless "Theatre of the Mind".  In the interest of equal pretentiousness, I'd like to start a motion to refer to map combat as "Tableau Vivant".  


D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

I like the way superiority dice can be used to enable others, grant advantage, force movement or even act off turn. It has many different maneuvers that can be tactically sound. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

SteeleButterfly wrote:

 

bawylie wrote:
Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same.

 

To me, "battle" is a tactical thing. The "war" is strategic. A "master" has mastered something (like a set of manoeuvers), where the "lord" has command.

 

A battle master is a master tactician, and an expert with his chosen weapons in a single engagement. A warlord is a leader of people and directs the long-term strategy. They sound very different to me.

The correlation and divergence are both interesting ... 

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Looks good to me, just need to have short rests be 5 to 10 minutes long instead of an hour and everything is good.  I want all powers to be at-will or encounter based I hate daily resources.

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

edwin_su wrote:

 

jtfowler wrote:

 

bawylie wrote:

Yeah, but what's the meaningful difference between battle & war? Between master and lord?

 

a student of battle and a student of war are different how?  And a master and a lord also convey similar concepts. 

 

How about bAttle lord or war master?

 

All the same. 

 

 

Personally, when I hear 'Warlord' I imagine a ruthless tyrant a la Genghis Khan. Battle Master, however, sounds more neutral -- a student/teacher of armed combat. How likely are you to have a lawful good Warlord vs Battle Master? I mean, it's pretty subjective regardless, but I thought I'd take a crack at it anyway.

 

I'm liking what I see for the Fighter! Something for everyone.

 

 

The dutch and german words that the word warlord seems to be based on had a difrent historical meaning.

Krijgsmeester or kriegsmeister, refered to any leader of soldiers that did not hold a military rank in a army of any nation recidnised by you.

 

So for example leaders of mercenary companies, leaders of any rebel factions.

Ofcourse I think John Carter Warlord of Mars and Travis Morgan...

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

What about Battle Master vs Weaponmaster, the previous Path's name, what do you guys think?

 

For me i don't mind either name and prefer them to Warlord,  but Battle Master makes me remember a rather cool board game from the 90's! 

 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Topic locked