Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?

By far my favorite setting is Planescape. I developed this deep love for Planescape in the only edition it was truly supported in: AD&D 2e. I have almost all of the books and know a lot about all of the planes in general. This was the one setting that I could get books and read for hours. The planes were so flavorful and full of wonder. In my signature, I ran a poll for a very long time about favorite campaign settings. I was shocked that Planescape never went before 3rd place ever, and was competing against all other settings ever created! I knew there was a lot of love for it, but I had no idea so many still loved it when the last official books were released in the late 90s!

Here are some hopes and dreams I have about Planescape in Next:


New Material -  Check out Legends and Lore - The Many Worlds of D&D. While they haven't said they are releasing Planescape books specifically, Mike did say here that they are releasing material that will be compatible with Planescape.

Even if Planescape isn't released, look at what will be released. Newly worked inner planes with an extremely cool tone and feel is very high on my list of "Can't wait to see!". I always felt the inner planes were a bit lacking compared to everything else. I only found the big 4 were worth visiting generally. I mean, we could have a nice adventure in the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Lightning, for instance, but there was only so much you could to there. Even in the big 4, there wasn't a ton of stuff to do there. Even if we lost the quasi and para elemental planes, I wouldn't miss them at all if the inner planes are done well. Judging from this L&L and a few tweets from Mike alone, I strongly feel they can and will be done well.

Check out some of what Mike said on his Twitter feed about elemental planes. I would give up the quasis and paras any day for this, and who knows, maybe we'll have quasis and paras too?


Support - Actually releasing Planescape books again would be hella damn awesome! However, even if they aren't released, it's not a big deal to me. We could still make it work, easy. Those over at planewalker.com have been keeping the dream alive and even if you don't use them as a resource, converting original 2e material to Next looks like it'll be pretty easy IMO. If you don't have any 2e Planescape books, you can get pdfs at D&D Classics. There's a decent selection now, and I can only presume more will be released later. Definitely check out Uncaged: Faces of Sigil if you're into Planescape.

Check out this quote from the Legends and Lore:



Our goal is to make it so that as much prior material as possible is still useful and relevant. In a sense, you can think of this approach as attempting to ensure as much story compatibility as possible when you convert an existing campaign over to D&D Next.




Tone - If Planescape receives official support and releases, I hope they bring the tone and feel back. So many things go into Planescape's tone, it's hard to pin it down in words. The attitude of the NPCs is a big one. Hell, even the slang was part of it to me. But the largest part of the tone to me was the emphasis on roleplaying. In Planescape, one has to be very careful because you aren't going to be the biggest, baddest around.

Many adventure modules required you to creatively think of ways to accomplish goals, as combat just wasn't always viable against a greater power or a veritable crap-ton of modrons, for example. Two books that emphasize roleplaying over brawn in general are The Great Modron March (it's on D&D Classics) and Dead Gods (quite excellent, but not on D&D Classics, yet). 

Minis -  This is a dream, as I feel the likelihood of this is quite less than the rest I discussed above. I would love to see a Planescape miniature line released. Hell, I'd love any new miniature line released! I have close to 1000 minis and am still collecting. I have most of the Planescape stuff, but more is better. However, I don't collect minis to play with so much. I just like collecting them and looking at them. I would do the same with Planescape minis if released. I'm sure they'd get some use, but it's more for me to have them than to actually play with them. If this never happened, it wouldn't affect my opinion of WotC or Next negatively in any way.




What hopes and dreams do you have for Planescape and D&D Next? 
Do you have an opinion on what campaign settings should be printed in D&D Next? If so, please cast your votes in this poll! Poll: What campaign settings do you want to see printed in D&D Next?
One of my bigger hopes for planescape has already come to pass, the return of the variable form tiefling.

Things I liked from Planescape that I want to see back:

The Lingo.  I loved reading the planescape books, with "blood," "berk," "cutter," and "bone box" peppered into the flavor text.  The only setting books that I liked reading more were the Ravenloft ones.

The Art.  Planescape 2e art is still my absolute favorite D&D art.


Things I could stand to see removed or shoved into options:

Magic "+" values by plane of origin.  I can still pull out the planescape paperback book with the full page chart that shows how the plus value of weapons and armors change as you travel from plane to plane, with the plus value decreasing as you get farther from the item's plane of origin.  I'm not against it being available for those who want it.  Shove it in an option.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

1) Support

2) A Flexiable Timeline -- write material for both before and after the Faction War.  In fact, I think this kind of has to be done for all the classic settings that have had earth-shaking events: Dragonlance can't afford to be "Age of Mortals only!".   FR needs Pre and Post Time of Troubles, Spellplague, and Sundering

3) Got to agree about New Material.  I want to see the paras and quasis though.  Dust, Salt, and Ooze in specific has a LOT going on, enough that I'd want somewhere to put them.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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By far my favorite setting is Planescape. I developed this deep love for Planescape in the only edition it was truly supported in: AD&D 2e. I have almost all of the books and know a lot about all of the planes in general. This was the one setting that I could get books and read for hours. The planes were so flavorful and full of wonder. In my signature, I ran a poll for a very long time about favorite campaign settings. I was shocked that Planescape never went before 3rd place ever, and was competing against all other settings ever created! I knew there was a lot of love for it, but I had no idea so many still loved it when the last official books were released in the late 90s!

Here are some hopes and dreams I have about Planescape in Next:


New Material -  Check out Legends and Lore - The Many Worlds of D&D. While they haven't said they are releasing Planescape books specifically, Mike did say here that they are releasing material that will be compatible with Planescape.

Even if Planescape isn't released, look at what will be released. Newly worked inner planes with an extremely cool tone and feel is very high on my list of "Can't wait to see!". I always felt the inner planes were a bit lacking compared to everything else. I only found the big 4 were worth visiting generally. I mean, we could have a nice adventure in the Quasi-Elemental Plane of Lightning, for instance, but there was only so much you could to there. Even in the big 4, there wasn't a ton of stuff to do there. Even if we lost the quasi and para elemental planes, I wouldn't miss them at all if the inner planes are done well. Judging from this L&L and a few tweets from Mike alone, I strongly feel they can and will be done well.

Check out some of what Mike said on his Twitter feed about elemental planes. I would give up the quasis and paras any day for this, and who knows, maybe we'll have quasis and paras too?


Support - Actually releasing Planescape books again would be hella damn awesome! However, even if they aren't released, it's not a big deal to me. We could still make it work, easy. Those over at planewalker.com have been keeping the dream alive and even if you don't use them as a resource, converting original 2e material to Next looks like it'll be pretty easy IMO. If you don't have any 2e Planescape books, you can get pdfs at D&D Classics. There's a decent selection now, and I can only presume more will be released later. Definitely check out Uncaged: Faces of Sigil if you're into Planescape.

Check out this quote from the Legends and Lore:



Our goal is to make it so that as much prior material as possible is still useful and relevant. In a sense, you can think of this approach as attempting to ensure as much story compatibility as possible when you convert an existing campaign over to D&D Next.




Tone - If Planescape receives official support and releases, I hope they bring the tone and feel back. So many things go into Planescape's tone, it's hard to pin it down in words. The attitude of the NPCs is a big one. Hell, even the slang was part of it to me. But the largest part of the tone to me was the emphasis on roleplaying. In Planescape, one has to be very careful because you aren't going to be the biggest, baddest around.

Many adventure modules required you to creatively think of ways to accomplish goals, as combat just wasn't always viable against a greater power or a veritable crap-ton of modrons, for example. Two books that emphasize roleplaying over brawn in general are The Great Modron March (it's on D&D Classics) and Dead Gods (quite excellent, but not on D&D Classics, yet). 

Minis -  This is a dream, as I feel the likelihood of this is quite less than the rest I discussed above. I would love to see a Planescape miniature line released. Hell, I'd love any new miniature line released! I have close to 1000 minis and am still collecting. I have most of the Planescape stuff, but more is better. However, I don't collect minis to play with so much. I just like collecting them and looking at them. I would do the same with Planescape minis if released. I'm sure they'd get some use, but it's more for me to have them than to actually play with them. If this never happened, it wouldn't affect my opinion of WotC or Next negatively in any way.




What hopes and dreams do you have for Planescape and D&D Next? 



Boy am I a Planescape setting.  I own every book, supplement, and adventure.  As for mini's, I really wish every spell and ability was written to work effectively without miniatures.  Though I have nothing against mini's for people who like them and play with them in some games.
My initial experience with Planescape was the video game and no amount of my DM running things otherwise has been able to wipe that away from me.

I'd like Planescape to have a grab-bag of character options too weird to fit into a "normal" setting. 

Chaotic magic causes a pile of clothes to animate?  Floating skull? Intelligent Dancing Sword?  I want racial write-ups or at least solid guidlines. 
2) A Flexiable Timeline -- write material for both before and after the Faction War.



I forget where I read this and I'll search for a link tomorrow when I have some time. However, I did read that they had initially planned another module to bring all the factions and everything to like it was before the Faction War, but the series ended and no new books were made. I believe it was Monte Cook. I'll find it and post it as there was more info than this and I found it very interesting.

I certainly agree with you on your points.

One of my bigger hopes for planescape has already come to pass, the return of the variable form tiefling.

Things I liked from Planescape that I want to see back:

The Lingo.  I loved reading the planescape books, with "blood," "berk," "cutter," and "bone box" peppered into the flavor text.  The only setting books that I liked reading more were the Ravenloft ones.

The Art.  Planescape 2e art is still my absolute favorite D&D art.


Things I could stand to see removed or shoved into options:

Magic "+" values by plane of origin.  I can still pull out the planescape paperback book with the full page chart that shows how the plus value of weapons and armors change as you travel from plane to plane, with the plus value decreasing as you get farther from the item's plane of origin.  I'm not against it being available for those who want it.  Shove it in an option.



I agree with you everywhere too. I love the variable tiefling. It just makes sense with the race, period, IMO. It's art and lingo were two of the most charming things about any setting. It's hard to imagine it without either. Tony DiTerlizzi is such an amazing artist.

I'm not sure if my favorite part of Planescape is the lingo, or the Lady of Pain. They do comprise my top two, however!

I was never into the + by planes either. I mean I get that fire spells probably aren't going to work well in the elemental plane of water, that makes sense. But the intricate scheme they did in 2e was abandoned by us. We never even tried the game with those rules in place, not one time.

I did like the spells that didn't work when you weren't on a plane coterminous (astral spells on planes not coterminous with astral lane, same with ethereal and shadow spells). I could certainly live without that option, but that part gives it a little more verisimilitude to me.
Do you have an opinion on what campaign settings should be printed in D&D Next? If so, please cast your votes in this poll! Poll: What campaign settings do you want to see printed in D&D Next?
Playable Modrons.

That's all I need. It's not a whole lot to ask. 
Babies of pain roaming across the planes, killing gods for fun.
And then Lady of pain smiling for having such cute babies.

God hackers, draining divine powers for their own goals.
 

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

The allegyance system from d20 Modern added to aligment for factions of Planescape.

Races: Aasimars, tielfings (if there aren´t in the core books), bariaur, all genasies planeoutched (from Friend Folio 3rd Ed. too), spikers and mehplings. (I don´t like the neraph and I hate the wildren, buomman aren´t bad, and swadowswift are a boring idea for me). 

(Could a spiker with racial parangon class become a blandeling from MM 2 3rd ed?).

All the paraelementals and quasielementals like "companions" or monsters to be summoned. The return of vivacious, the monster template.

The touchstones, a interesting idea for alternative reward.

---

I would rather imagine the elemental air plane like a place with "flyings mountains" of solid layer of lenticulari clouds.  



and the elemental water plane like lots of giant "bubbles" of water conected to other, giving a imagen like neuronal tissue

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

I never really got to play Planescape, but I do appreciate it. I can see it coming back.
Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?




Honestly... none.

Nothing to do with 5E and the new system... I just don't think WotC can handle Planescape. It's not their type of thing.

Planescape was, above all else, a psychological-thriller game. If you read the original 2E Planecape you'll see a level of maturity, psychological complexity and wondrousness behind the setting... in the books' dialogue, in the building of the planes, in things like the Society of Sensations, etc... that hasn't been around in D&D since WotC took over from TSR.

I'd say Planescape was not written as a game, even though it is played as a game.
And that is why it felt so different from any other D&D setting.

It was bizarre, psychadelic, complex, and that's what made it beautiful and interesting (and I dare say rather hard to DM it properly).



WotC pretty much turned Outlands into a playground for high-level characters.
"Got no more challenges left for your players in your standard world... Ok, send them to the outer planes to fight some Baatezu and stuff."
Although a Planescape setting was never released after 2E, the Planes were still used extensivelly by the overall D&D game. However, it had lost all its unique characteristics.
 
I'm not really trying to bash WotC here (although personally I find the TSR era settings in general much better)... it's just that TSR and WotC make/made very different styles of campaign settings.

And, well... who knows, maybe WotC can still surprise me...
But frankly I don't think WotC can pull off something like TSR's Planescape. It's just not their thing.
Lingo, attitude, and high stakes mostly.  Interesting outsiders definitely.  Less big winged guys with 10 kinds of cure spells and 1 kind of offense (the reverse ratio is pretty cool).  The idea that even the most traveled character doesn't know everything that is out there.  Sometimes I want some kind of extravagant multiethnic capability (grandpa was a bone devil, grandma was a hound archon, other side is purebreed orcs), but then I think about it some more and think that the racial abilities would be a pain to DM.

Support. 
Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?




Honestly... none.

Nothing to do with 5E and the new system... I just don't think WotC can handle Planescape. It's not their type of thing.

Planescape was, above all else, a psychological-thriller game. If you read the original 2E Planecape you'll see a level of maturity, psychological complexity and wondrousness behind the setting... in the books' dialogue, in the building of the planes, in things like the Society of Sensations, etc... that hasn't been around in D&D since WotC took over from TSR.

I'd say Planescape was not written as a game, even though it is played as a game.
And that is why it felt so different from any other D&D setting.

It was bizarre, psychadelic, complex, and that's what made it beautiful and interesting (and I dare say rather hard to DM it properly).



WotC pretty much turned Outlands into a playground for high-level characters.
"Got no more challenges left for your players in your standard world... Ok, send them to the outer planes to fight some Baatezu and stuff."
Although a Planescape setting was never released after 2E, the Planes were still used extensivelly by the overall D&D game. However, it had lost all its unique characteristics.
 
I'm not really trying to bash WotC here (although personally I find the TSR era settings in general much better)... it's just that TSR and WotC make/made very different styles of campaign settings.



I can see your points on this, but I think there's a chance they can do it well. Looking at the tweets that I linked earlier gives me confidence a lot of the background material will be done well. It looks like a bit will be reimagined, but looking at how they are reimagining it I am very much ok with this.

While I agree that the Planescape setting and adventures were far different than anything WotC has done, so were pretty much all the adventures and settings before 3.0. However, the playtest adventures they have released so far have all either straight up been from the TSR era, or looked much more like it than anything from 3e to 4e that I ever encountered, and I've read a lot of 3.0e - 3.5e


And, well... who knows, maybe WotC can still surprise me...
But frankly I don't think WotC can pull off something like TSR's Planescape. It's just not their thing.



If they have the right people on board and approach it with the right mindset, it's quite plausible that they'll release something a lot of us fans will love. This remains yet to be seen, but I am absolutely certain if they do approach Planescape they'll attempt to do it right, and I am fairly certain they have a good chance to succeed. Only time will tell. If they approach Planescape with a similar attitude that they've approached everything else so far, I believe they will succeed in making something I love. I am not really disagreeing with you, but I guess I just have a much higher confidence that they can and will succeed in doing this.

Worst case scenario, it looks like I'll be able to use the old books and just replace monsters stats with Next stats. Best case scenario, we get solid support for Planescape in Next and are happy with what is released. We shall see.
Do you have an opinion on what campaign settings should be printed in D&D Next? If so, please cast your votes in this poll! Poll: What campaign settings do you want to see printed in D&D Next?
Playable Modrons.

That's all I need. It's not a whole lot to ask. 



Rogue modrons were one of the coolest playable races ever released. Warforged have nothing on rogue modrons! I really do like warforged, but rogue modrons are much cooler IMO (I know they are way different, but whatever).

Have you seen the modron web supplement from 2001? This link also has The World Serpent Inn, which is a transitive demi-plane and the entire demi-plane is an inn. It's pretty interesting.
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My hopes and dreams can be summed up in two words:

     Tony DiTerlizzi 

Danny

At this point I'd be happy with a planescape monstrous manual for Next.

I would cry unicorn tears made of elf sugar and realized dreams if WoTC actually made it into a supported campaign world.

Actually it would be nice if WoTC licensed things like Planescape, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, etc. out to third parties if they weren't going to cover them.  
Love Planescape, my ongoing campaign of 8 years is a Planescape one, as it was an elaboration of the standard D&D cosmology it will be supported, the art rocked (TD), as for the lingo, I can kinda get into it, but being English (though mainly raised in America), the lingo can be a bit forced, not-exotic, even trite (even silly).

I have never found the Elemental planes boring, as they have always had elements of the others, no need for an artificial separation. 

What worries me deeply, is The Plane of Shadow/Shadowfell now being called Ravenloft... 
What worries me deeply, is The Plane of Shadow/Shadowfell now being called Ravenloft... 


I thought that was strange as well. I think we'll have guidelines and tools in our "cosmology toolbox" type thing they mentioned long, long ago that would come with the game. This was specifically mentioned in several places, including this Dragon Editorial by Chris Perkins labeled: De Planes, De Planes!

D&D is not truly D&D without the Great Wheel, but for many players and DMs, the 4th Edition cosmology is their preferred “take” on the planes. We also have campaign settings with cosmological needs of their own. Our goal with D&D Next is to present a planar toolbox that allows us to borrow or assemble whatever cosmological elements suit our needs, and yours as well.

 

I sincerely hope to see it designed so that players can setup their cosmologies with ease. I'm sure there'll be some type of "default" cosmology setup with rules on how to change it up, but of course this remains to be seen.

I thought the idea of putting those planes together was weird. To me, the demiplane of Shadow and Ravenloft are very different indeed. I think I would like to add Shadowfell to my cosmology as well. I never played 4e, but the Shadowfell sounds like it might be a cool addition to my games. However, it would be separate as well. I could see those three being coterminous to each other, but not together/inside each other/whatever. Regardless of how they present them, I sincerely hope they have a full-fledged "toolbox" as mentioned before. 
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i'm not the biggest planescape fan but I loved factions.
in my opinion they are a much more intresting way to determin a characters motivation and outlook on the world then the alignment system. 
i'm not the biggest planescape fan but I loved factions.
in my opinion they are a much more intresting way to determin a characters motivation and outlook on the world then the alignment system. 



Just curious. If official Planescape books existed that detailed the factions, would you incorporate them into your existing campaign? That's an intriguing thought, for sure.
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@Luis_Carlos: Beautiful pictures!  Especially the mountain of air one.  I've never seen -- or dreamed of -- anything like that before.  Thank you for those!

I've never liked the elemental planes until the Elemental Chaos; its disappointing to see them return to individuals again.  The Great Wheel was spectacular...for its time.  A lot of 90's pop-psy inherent in it that I don't think will carry over as well nowadays.  The atmosphere was wonderful though, there's little sense in denying that.  I don't have many hopes on the planes anymore, really.  4E's shakeup was interesting enough to make good sense, and simple enough to get some solid use out of without having to have a huge map for the placement of each plane and layer, each infinitely big, infinity stacked on infinity and all that jazz, all run from a single city whose plots were always constrained by 'Will the Harmonium find out' and 'Oh no a Mercykiller' and 'Whats the Independant League up to this time' and 'Silly Athar' and 'Procession of the Bleak Cabal, somethings up' and all the other rather staid interactions of the factions.  They were great at first, but their monolithic nature soon moved them into yawn territory.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

I forget where I read this and I'll search for a link tomorrow when I have some time. However, I did read that they had initially planned another module to bring all the factions and everything to like it was before the Faction War, but the series ended and no new books were made. I believe it was Monte Cook. I'll find it and post it as there was more info than this and I found it very interesting.

This is probably the most important point, to me. If it's pre-Faction-War, then you get the standard prequel problem where the fate of the world is already written and changing anything skews into some trivial alternate universe, and if it's post-Faction-War then it's completely unlike the Planescape setting I've invested in. They need some sort of Cosmic Retcon to make the future more like the past.

The metagame is not the game.


Actually it would be nice if WoTC licensed things like Planescape, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, etc. out to third parties if they weren't going to cover them.  




They did that with Dark Sun for 3.5 edition.

And you can get all the PDFs for free at
athas.org/ 


They did an OK with it job, imo.
It's just that... I don't know... to me 3E (and 4E a lot more, even) just fail to capture, in terms of rules' system, the essence and feel of Dark Sun. I can't really point out exactly why, but it just feels a little weird when I play it. But the guys in athas.org did a nice job, nonetheless. It's just the 3E basic system that I feel doesn't quite fit.
What worries me deeply, is The Plane of Shadow/Shadowfell now being called Ravenloft... 


I thought that was strange as well. I think we'll have guidelines and tools in our "cosmology toolbox" type thing they mentioned long, long ago that would come with the game. This was specifically mentioned in several places, including this Dragon Editorial by Chris Perkins labeled: De Planes, De Planes!




Though, planar theorists speculate that Ravenloft could become a full-fledged plane (Outer), as the Ethereal Plane is the genesis of all (dreamscapes, etc).
I've never liked the elemental planes until the Elemental Chaos; its disappointing to see them return to individuals again.



I'm certain the Elemental Chaos will return, even if Planescape is released.

This is from Mike's Legend and Lore: The Many Worlds of D&D


For instance, the elemental planes will be divided into three basic rings that surround the prime material plane. The innermost ring consists of the border elemental planes. These regions are like the regular world dominated by a specific element. The border plane of fire is a land of ash deserts, billowing volcanoes, and lakes of lava. The next ring out consists of the deep elemental planes, which are areas of pure, elemental energy much as the elemental planes were portrayed in the Planescape material. Finally, the outermost ring is the elemental chaos, a region of pure, fundamental elemental energy.

 

I don't think the old inner planes are coming back exactly like they were, but I do like what they are adding here. They definitely are adding in the elemental chaos. The reimagined inner planes sound to me like they'll be way more flavorful and just plain awesome than the old ones. Don't get me wrong, I liked the old ones, but this sounds like a much more entertaining concept to me. While I would like to see some of the old inner planes come back, I don't think I'd miss them too much. Even with the Inner Planes book (which was AWESOME, btw), there still weren't a ton of adventure ideas IMO. There's only so much you can do on a plane of steam, or of radiance, or of freaking vacuum.
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I've never liked the elemental planes until the Elemental Chaos; its disappointing to see them return to individuals again.



I'm certain the Elemental Chaos will return, even if Planescape is released.

This is from Mike's Legend and Lore: The Many Worlds of D&D


For instance, the elemental planes will be divided into three basic rings that surround the prime material plane. The innermost ring consists of the border elemental planes. These regions are like the regular world dominated by a specific element. The border plane of fire is a land of ash deserts, billowing volcanoes, and lakes of lava. The next ring out consists of the deep elemental planes, which are areas of pure, elemental energy much as the elemental planes were portrayed in the Planescape material. Finally, the outermost ring is the elemental chaos, a region of pure, fundamental elemental energy.

 




The Elemental Planes have always had lots of the other elemental elements involved, so, no need for an artificial explanation.

Actually it would be nice if WoTC licensed things like Planescape, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, etc. out to third parties if they weren't going to cover them.  




They did that with Dark Sun for 3.5 edition.

And you can get all the PDFs for free at
athas.org/ 


They did an OK with it job, imo.
It's just that... I don't know... to me 3E (and 4E a lot more, even) just fail to capture, in terms of rules' system, the essence and feel of Dark Sun. I can't really point out exactly why, but it just feels a little weird when I play it. But the guys in athas.org did a nice job, nonetheless. It's just the 3E basic system that I feel doesn't quite fit.



Yeah they did do a good job, totally agree.  I also agree that 3rd ed didn't fit.  It may be my proto-grognard speaking but even though I didn't particularly like 2nd ed rules wise it has been the best fit for Dark Sun thus far in my opinion.  But regardless I don't need a specific rules set to enjoy reading all the materials for Dark Sun and Planescape!
I've never liked the elemental planes until the Elemental Chaos; its disappointing to see them return to individuals again.



I'm certain the Elemental Chaos will return, even if Planescape is released.

This is from Mike's Legend and Lore: The Many Worlds of D&D


For instance, the elemental planes will be divided into three basic rings that surround the prime material plane. The innermost ring consists of the border elemental planes. These regions are like the regular world dominated by a specific element. The border plane of fire is a land of ash deserts, billowing volcanoes, and lakes of lava. The next ring out consists of the deep elemental planes, which are areas of pure, elemental energy much as the elemental planes were portrayed in the Planescape material. Finally, the outermost ring is the elemental chaos, a region of pure, fundamental elemental energy.

 

I don't think the old inner planes are coming back exactly like they were, but I do like what they are adding here. They definitely are adding in the elemental chaos. The reimagined inner planes sound to me like they'll be way more flavorful and just plain awesome than the old ones. Don't get me wrong, I liked the old ones, but this sounds like a much more entertaining concept to me. While I would like to see some of the old inner planes come back, I don't think I'd miss them too much. Even with the Inner Planes book (which was AWESOME, btw), there still weren't a ton of adventure ideas IMO. There's only so much you can do on a plane of steam, or of radiance, or of freaking vacuum.



Okay, I can see the direction you're coming from there.  I certainly hope so...while I admit I never got to leaf through the Inner Planes book, it was always just so difficult coming up with something interesting to do in those planes.  "Uh...its a city...made of fire...in a land of fire...with solidified fire for walls, and uh...liquid fire.  Yah."  It just never quite did it for me.

I do like the innermost of the newly-presented idea from that article, which is more EleChaos'ish to me.  It's when you start trying to explain the difference between 'pure element' and 'pure fundamental element' and translating it into a meaningful description that I'm concerned it will bog down.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

At this point I'd be happy with a planescape monstrous manual for Next.

I would cry unicorn tears made of elf sugar and realized dreams if WoTC actually made it into a supported campaign world.

Actually it would be nice if WoTC licensed things like Planescape, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, etc. out to third parties if they weren't going to cover them.  

+1  Planescape had the best Monster Manuals.
My hopes and dreams are that if they want to do a 5e Planescape, they do Planescape with 5e rules, rather than pick out elements from PS and change them to fit 5e. Do your homework on the 2e material, know it, love it, and do it correctly with all of the attention and appreciation that it rightfully deserves. Don't try to force fit elements that don't fit into its cosmology, continuity, or thematic atmosphere and tropes.

That said, 2e Planescape is almost singlehandedly responsible for getting me interested in D&D (and I started in 3e), and it's also heavily responsible for getting me to write and for starting to freelance. Planescape was and is a gigantic formative inspiration for me, and I have loved every minor contribution to the expanded Planescape lore that I've been able work on during 3.x and 4e.

Having said all of that, let me just say that if I had a puppy, and a physical manifestation of WotC appeared and kicked it repeatedly, I would then promptly forgive it and be its bestest friend if it let me freelance on a 5e Planescape book. Just saying. Hint hint.

IMAGE(http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/shemmysmile.gif)
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
mearls has said that settings outside of the core 5 will have an open game licence for 3rd parties to create content and wotc will handle the core 5. so you may see some designers that left tsr/wotc that made those setting come back to make them again.
mearls has said that settings outside of the core 5 will have an open game licence for 3rd parties to create content and wotc will handle the core 5. so you may see some designers that left tsr/wotc that made those setting come back to make them again.


Interesting. Where did you see this? I want to read more about it. It sounds awesome.
Do you have an opinion on what campaign settings should be printed in D&D Next? If so, please cast your votes in this poll! Poll: What campaign settings do you want to see printed in D&D Next?
mearls has said that settings outside of the core 5 will have an open game licence for 3rd parties to create content and wotc will handle the core 5. so you may see some designers that left tsr/wotc that made those setting come back to make them again.


Interesting. Where did you see this? I want to read more about it. It sounds awesome.



ill try to run down the post, they said the goal was to put out an online store with pfds like the classic module one to put all the 3rd party stuff in and you can get it in pdf form. i have been watching so much and reading alot of what happened at gen con since i couldnt go this year.
www.enworld.org/forum/showwiki.php?title...
its a few boxes down its kinds of a summary of all the gencon stuff mearls and crew said.

"I think that an open license speaks to how people think about D&D, and in some ways it is a big part of the game’s culture. We want people to feel like we’re making an effort to include everything that they love about the game, and we’re exploring options for third party publishers." - Mike Mearls.
Playable Modrons.

That's all I need. It's not a whole lot to ask. 



Modrons were my favorite NPCs for my PCs to interact with.  And I really loved Rogue Modrons as a race.
Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?




Honestly... none.

Nothing to do with 5E and the new system... I just don't think WotC can handle Planescape. It's not their type of thing.

Planescape was, above all else, a psychological-thriller game. If you read the original 2E Planecape you'll see a level of maturity, psychological complexity and wondrousness behind the setting... in the books' dialogue, in the building of the planes, in things like the Society of Sensations, etc... that hasn't been around in D&D since WotC took over from TSR.

I'd say Planescape was not written as a game, even though it is played as a game.
And that is why it felt so different from any other D&D setting.

It was bizarre, psychadelic, complex, and that's what made it beautiful and interesting (and I dare say rather hard to DM it properly).



WotC pretty much turned Outlands into a playground for high-level characters.
"Got no more challenges left for your players in your standard world... Ok, send them to the outer planes to fight some Baatezu and stuff."
Although a Planescape setting was never released after 2E, the Planes were still used extensivelly by the overall D&D game. However, it had lost all its unique characteristics.
 
I'm not really trying to bash WotC here (although personally I find the TSR era settings in general much better)... it's just that TSR and WotC make/made very different styles of campaign settings.

And, well... who knows, maybe WotC can still surprise me...
But frankly I don't think WotC can pull off something like TSR's Planescape. It's just not their thing.



I have gone back several times and read many of my 2E setting books.  Planescape, Ravenloft, Al-Qadim, Birthright, and Jakandor.  WOTC has no where near the literary skill that TSR had.  I really wish they would get back to writing damn good setting material.
Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?




Honestly... none.

Nothing to do with 5E and the new system... I just don't think WotC can handle Planescape. It's not their type of thing.

Planescape was, above all else, a psychological-thriller game. If you read the original 2E Planecape you'll see a level of maturity, psychological complexity and wondrousness behind the setting... in the books' dialogue, in the building of the planes, in things like the Society of Sensations, etc... that hasn't been around in D&D since WotC took over from TSR.

I'd say Planescape was not written as a game, even though it is played as a game.
And that is why it felt so different from any other D&D setting.

It was bizarre, psychadelic, complex, and that's what made it beautiful and interesting (and I dare say rather hard to DM it properly).



WotC pretty much turned Outlands into a playground for high-level characters.
"Got no more challenges left for your players in your standard world... Ok, send them to the outer planes to fight some Baatezu and stuff."
Although a Planescape setting was never released after 2E, the Planes were still used extensivelly by the overall D&D game. However, it had lost all its unique characteristics.
 
I'm not really trying to bash WotC here (although personally I find the TSR era settings in general much better)... it's just that TSR and WotC make/made very different styles of campaign settings.

And, well... who knows, maybe WotC can still surprise me...
But frankly I don't think WotC can pull off something like TSR's Planescape. It's just not their thing.



I have gone back several times and read many of my 2E setting books.  Planescape, Ravenloft, Al-Qadim, Birthright, and Jakandor.  WOTC has no where near the literary skill that TSR had.  I really wish they would get back to writing damn good setting material.




I agree. The best setting book they ever had came from a WoTC outsider- Eberron. It might be a regional thing: There were a lot of frustrated historians and professional novelists working during the TSR days.  WoTC has a lot of system administrator types-- seriously Seattle is lousy with them. The WoTC approach has been to look at systems first, then sort of loosely tie them to setting. Dragonborn exist because they were a cool creature. Then all the story around them had sort of slotted in.

What worries me is when Mearls talks about the Ravenloft setting and is getting all excited about where it fits in the cosmology. It's a very sys-admin way to look at the setting: this part goes here, that part goes there.  But it's missing the appeal of the Ravenloft setting: it's a Gothic Fantasy setting where the villians are fully fleshed out tragic characters and the atmosphere is one of mounting dread.  There was mystery implicit in the setting, bad things happened to good people, and while it never stepped above a PG-13 rating, it was decidedly mature.

Same with Planescape. If you want to learn about Planescape, watch Gangs of New York, Altered States, and read a bunch of China Mieville. To 'get' it requires knowing the source material--the Victorian Slang, the Old New York feel of Sigil, the acceptance of what I call the High Weird fantasy elements and taking them seriously. Attempting to simply rewrite Planescape setting based on having read the old books will lead to drab and silly results.
Planescape Fans: What are your hopes and dreams for Planescape in D&D Next?




Honestly... none.

Nothing to do with 5E and the new system... I just don't think WotC can handle Planescape. It's not their type of thing.

Planescape was, above all else, a psychological-thriller game. If you read the original 2E Planecape you'll see a level of maturity, psychological complexity and wondrousness behind the setting... in the books' dialogue, in the building of the planes, in things like the Society of Sensations, etc... that hasn't been around in D&D since WotC took over from TSR.

I'd say Planescape was not written as a game, even though it is played as a game.
And that is why it felt so different from any other D&D setting.

It was bizarre, psychadelic, complex, and that's what made it beautiful and interesting (and I dare say rather hard to DM it properly).



WotC pretty much turned Outlands into a playground for high-level characters.
"Got no more challenges left for your players in your standard world... Ok, send them to the outer planes to fight some Baatezu and stuff."
Although a Planescape setting was never released after 2E, the Planes were still used extensivelly by the overall D&D game. However, it had lost all its unique characteristics.
 
I'm not really trying to bash WotC here (although personally I find the TSR era settings in general much better)... it's just that TSR and WotC make/made very different styles of campaign settings.

And, well... who knows, maybe WotC can still surprise me...
But frankly I don't think WotC can pull off something like TSR's Planescape. It's just not their thing.



I have gone back several times and read many of my 2E setting books.  Planescape, Ravenloft, Al-Qadim, Birthright, and Jakandor.  WOTC has no where near the literary skill that TSR had.  I really wish they would get back to writing damn good setting material.




I agree. The best setting book they ever had came from a WoTC outsider- Eberron. It might be a regional thing: There were a lot of frustrated historians and professional novelists working during the TSR days.  WoTC has a lot of system administrator types-- seriously Seattle is lousy with them. The WoTC approach has been to look at systems first, then sort of loosely tie them to setting. Dragonborn exist because they were a cool creature. Then all the story around them had sort of slotted in.

What worries me is when Mearls talks about the Ravenloft setting and is getting all excited about where it fits in the cosmology. It's a very sys-admin way to look at the setting: this part goes here, that part goes there.  But it's missing the appeal of the Ravenloft setting: it's a Gothic Fantasy setting where the villians are fully fleshed out tragic characters and the atmosphere is one of mounting dread.  There was mystery implicit in the setting, bad things happened to good people, and while it never stepped above a PG-13 rating, it was decidedly mature.

Same with Planescape. If you want to learn about Planescape, watch Gangs of New York, Altered States, and read a bunch of China Mieville. To 'get' it requires knowing the source material--the Victorian Slang, the Old New York feel of Sigil, the acceptance of what I call the High Weird fantasy elements and taking them seriously. Attempting to simply rewrite Planescape setting based on having read the old books will lead to drab and silly results.



these settings are in my opinion not core 5 so the 3rd party support will be what will cover these with new material and whos to say some old ex-tsr/wotc guys wont be writing it?

I agree. The best setting book they ever had came from a WoTC outsider- Eberron. It might be a regional thing: There were a lot of frustrated historians and professional novelists working during the TSR days.  WoTC has a lot of system administrator types-- seriously Seattle is lousy with them. The WoTC approach has been to look at systems first, then sort of loosely tie them to setting. Dragonborn exist because they were a cool creature. Then all the story around them had sort of slotted in.

What worries me is when Mearls talks about the Ravenloft setting and is getting all excited about where it fits in the cosmology. It's a very sys-admin way to look at the setting: this part goes here, that part goes there.  But it's missing the appeal of the Ravenloft setting: it's a Gothic Fantasy setting where the villians are fully fleshed out tragic characters and the atmosphere is one of mounting dread.  There was mystery implicit in the setting, bad things happened to good people, and while it never stepped above a PG-13 rating, it was decidedly mature.

Same with Planescape. If you want to learn about Planescape, watch Gangs of New York, Altered States, and read a bunch of China Mieville. To 'get' it requires knowing the source material--the Victorian Slang, the Old New York feel of Sigil, the acceptance of what I call the High Weird fantasy elements and taking them seriously. Attempting to simply rewrite Planescape setting based on having read the old books will lead to drab and silly results.




You nailed it there! 
That's basically what I said, but with better words. 
Interesting places around the planes both revisited and new, would probably be the things I'd want most out of Planescape in 5e.  That and more mysteries of the planes, because that was also one the appeals of the setting, was that even if they had all the answers to a lot of things out there, there were also still more questions that popped up.

The tone was important back in 2e, they should keep.  They should probably get a bunch of freelancers to write a lot of the material, especially the subjective 1st person narrations that was in all of its setting books.  Some of it's 2e era writers they could get, it might be possible to ask for Monte Cook even if he has his own company, or to get Colin McComb. 

Some of the other concerns would be to provide some sort of direction for post Faction War Sigil, now that it's been a while since the setting has been out.  Whether it's Sigil adjusting to life without the factions being around for a while and them becoming more multi-planar, or simply having them come back to Sigil after decades semi-exile.
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