What is full hp?

Hey folks, please don't let this thing fall into attacking other points of view. I think I understand another perspectiev, but I want to verify. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, here. If somebody says something you think is incredibly dumb or inaccurate, please don't point it out. Just post what HP is like at your table.

Now then... Please describe the following situations:
Your character is at full HP.
Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.
Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.
The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.

...is your character injured? What does your character look like?

Please be as narrative/roleplaying oriented as possible. I really appreciate any positive participation in this experiment.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
Full HP = no nagging wounds, not sick/exhausted.

Takes serious wound (assuming this means half HP) = clipped with an arrow, slashed with a sword, poked with a dagger.

Drinks potion (assuming this means 3/4 HP) = previous wounds now feel as if they've already had a few days' healing and most of the character's physical exhaustion would have gone away/

Hit again (assuming this means 1/4 HP) = stabbed in the shoulder, slashed with an axe.

Cleric heals you back to full = wounds magically disappear and all energy is restored. 


i personally like to keep the game out of Itchy and Sctratchy territory when it comes to damage descriptions against the PCs. I can't reconcile a person receiving what would realistically be a crippling injury every time someone beats their AC.

I usually describe most hits against them as getting caught by their armor or as action-movie-swordfight cuts.
Your character is at full HP.

Her skin is undamaged and she shows no sign of wound, though she may well be fatigued.
Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.

There is a hole in her body, roughly the size of a longsword. Only adrenaline is keeping her alive and functional.
Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.

The hole is magically closed, though some of the bone and muscle may still be bruised, and some scratches may remain on the surface.
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Many bones are broken, and her various parts are connected only by skin and sinew. Normally, she would be dead now, but there's no way she will give up when the fate of the world is at stake.
The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.

Divine light suffuses all injuries, preventing any from witnessing the details as bones heal and muscles regrow at amazing speed, until eventually the skin is reformed and the only sign of trauma is the cracked armor and tattered cloak.

Of course, that assumes a character at level 20, for whom 8 damage is a mere fraction of total HP. A character at level 1 would be almost unconscious after merely getting run through with a longsword just the one time - bringing her down 8 points, to merely 2 out of 10 - so that a serious (but non life-threatening) wound would be more like a dagger to the gut - bringing her down 4 points, to 6 out of 10.

The metagame is not the game.

 
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Many bones are broken 




And you are completely unimpaired though all of this.... yeh 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

 
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Many bones are broken 



And you are completely unimpaired though all of this.... yeh 



I know D&D is meant to be fantastic, but that was a bit much for my taste.

For me, full hp means being fully refreshed, focused, and ready to face a threat. A character doesn't take a "serious wound" until they're actually past 0 hitpoints, and instead get fatigued and flustered with each "successful" attack against them. For me, "Healing" potions and "Cure _____ Wounds" spells are misnomers, especially because they do not do proportional healing anyway.
 
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Many bones are broken 



And you are completely unimpaired though all of this.... yeh 



I know D&D is meant to be fantastic, but that was a bit much for my taste.

For me, full hp means being fully refreshed, focused, and ready to face a threat. A character doesn't take a "serious wound" until they're actually past 0 hitpoints, and instead get fatigued and flustered with each "successful" attack against them. For me, "Healing" potions and "Cure _____ Wounds" spells are misnomers, especially because they do not do proportional healing anyway.



This is the new D&D model, unfortunately. I'd like to see something more middle of the road with some options to make it more gritty or fantastic, but RAW this is what we get. The biggest problem is what happens when you get to 0 and then stabilized with a med kit, then use a long rest. "Wow, that wound went away on its own!"

I'm OK with HP being abstract and somewhat OK with rapid healing, but there has to be at least a wound system and more realistic healing rates presented as options.

Where there is life there is hope... But for the truly faithful there is always hope, and it is not determined by either death or life." -- Tleilaxu Master Scytale.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

Good stuff! Please, keep it coming.

Garthanos, this thread isn't about trying to poke holes in other's models.I figure there are plenty of those. Instead, I'd really appreciate hearing how you describe HP in your games.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
 
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Many bones are broken 



And you are completely unimpaired though all of this.... yeh 



I know D&D is meant to be fantastic, but that was a bit much for my taste.

For me, full hp means being fully refreshed, focused, and ready to face a threat. A character doesn't take a "serious wound" until they're actually past 0 hitpoints, and instead get fatigued and flustered with each "successful" attack against them. For me, "Healing" potions and "Cure _____ Wounds" spells are misnomers, especially because they do not do proportional healing anyway.



This is the new D&D model, unfortunately. I'd like to see something more middle of the road with some options to make it more gritty or fantastic, but RAW this is what we get. The biggest problem is what happens when you get to 0 and then stabilized with a med kit, then use a long rest. "Wow, that wound went away on its own!"

I'm OK with HP being abstract and somewhat OK with rapid healing, but there has to be at least a wound system and more realistic healing rates presented as options.



I know that at least one 4e-style retroclone is removing healing surges and replacing them with wounds for that very effect.
Instead, I'd really appreciate hearing how you describe HP in your games.


I could quote Rheinhart he's pretty lucid
For me, full hp means being fully refreshed, focused, and ready to face a threat. A character doesn't take a "serious wound" until they're actually past 0 hitpoints, and instead get fatigued and flustered with each "successful" attack against them.



I let players optionally describe how there abilities reduce or minimize the impact of attacks (my daughter likes how I do it)...but its rather implied by archetype. Lucky Heros, Skilled Heros, Tough Guy Heros and Magical Ones and Yeah Monsterous Ones... For all but the last hit points are about using their gifts and skills to minimize the impact of attacks.. but it looks different for each and can vary a bit with situation.

community.wizards.com/garthanos/blog/201...
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I'm with Garthanos, mostly, though I'd qualify this with it depending MASSIVELY on the character.  If I were playing something with supernatural regenerative abilities, I might describe wounds as exactly that.  But on a normal, mundane character, I don't, I describe them as a combination of minor bumps and scratches, and mostly losses in endurance and luck.  HP are not meat.  Even when someone goes below 0, I don't think of them as completely and utterly unconscious - more down-but-not-out.

On one or two character concepts I've not played yet, wounds wouldn't be anythign of the sort - they'd be clothing damage, and the character would just faint out cold the minute his clothes were seriously harmed.  But that's kind of a silly concept, and doesn't really track beyond the first unconsciousness.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Full HP simply means your mentally and physically ready to carry on and face the challenges ahead. You may be scratched, bruised, somewhat tired and bandaged but it's as good as it's going to get in the situation. Your determination and training are enough to overcome any physical issues you may have.
Your character is at full HP.
The character is fully rested and uninjured though visible reminders of past injuries show.

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.
The character gets a nagging wound such as a painful cut, a bad headache, or multiple swollen fingers. A wound serious enough to impair him for the day somewhat but one which can heal naturally easily with a day's rest or minor first aid.

Some visible signs can be noticed. Blood running down an arm or leg. A busted lip or missing tooth. A black bruise or nice bump here and there.


Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.
Most of the impairment of the character's wounds disappear. Cuts scab. Bruise lighten. Fingers straighten. Aches are dulled. Pain weaken. Fatigue washes away. Scars might remain.

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious. 
The character gets a nagging wound such as a bleeding gash, an agonizing burn, or a swollen shut eye. The wound is serious enough to impair him for a few days but one which can heal naturally with a couple days' rest or true medical care.
Telltale signs of wear are displayed. Shield is held low. The character is coughing and sweating. Fighting stance is poor. Signs of fatigue, fear, and/or pain written of the character's face. The character is impaired to the point where they can no longer defend themselves properly. The next attack to bypass their passive defenses will probably be fatal.


The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.
The impairment of the character's wounds disappear. Cuts close. Bruise shrink to nothing. Fingers straighten and regain feeling. Aches and pains are removed. Vigor is restored. Scars disappear.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Let's assume a 100 hit point character for the benefit of this discussion

Full HP = No injuries.  

< 20 hp attack = from a scratch up to a serious cut.  At this point the wound is merely a distraction.
> 20 hp attack = a stab wound somewhere that if left untreated would become lift threatening.

drink a potion = imagine a thousand tiny magical cellular nanites that reknit bone, muscle, sinews, and cells.

close to 0 hit points = Fighting on only by sheer force of heroic will.  Steady bleeding from multiple wounds.   You could also be near shock from burns etc...

Cleric heals you back to full = wounds magically disappear as above.


So a character at 0 hit points could have a few serious wounds or a lot of nicks and cuts that are taking their toll.

Normal mundane recovery involves bandages, rest, etc...   Some of this is assumed between every battle. If my group specifically said "We are not bandaging our wounds but pressing on immediately" I would likely cause them to start losing hit points due to bloodloss.  I don't know though that they have ever done this.

 

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

I'm with Garthanos, mostly, though I'd qualify this with it depending MASSIVELY on the character.  If I were playing something with supernatural regenerative abilities, I might describe wounds as exactly that.  But on a normal, mundane character, I don't, I describe them as a combination of minor bumps and scratches, and mostly losses in endurance and luck.  HP are not meat.  Even when someone goes below 0, I don't think of them as completely and utterly unconscious - more down-but-not-out.

On one or two character concepts I've not played yet, wounds wouldn't be anythign of the sort - they'd be clothing damage, and the character would just faint out cold the minute his clothes were seriously harmed.  But that's kind of a silly concept, and doesn't really track beyond the first unconsciousness.



Heh, well a lucky person gets more and more frazzled and detecting if they need a blessing or a restorative inspiration can be less than totally obvious.... The rogues freaking out again guys... the princess or cleric needs to talk to him.

Honestly abstract hit points have always undermined or forced an element of meta on who needs healing and how much... in 1e the young soldier dying on the ground needed a cure light wound and the older grizzled guy with a few cuts..standing over him needed major healing magic?????? ummmmm right????
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

To be perfectly honest, I don't generally describe those sorts of effects in details anyway - HP are not usually anything but 'not-down-yet-points'.  I don't refer to them as health, they're points that tell you how much you can be hit (in game terms hit, i.e. attack roll equals or beats your defence, deals HP damage, not in fiction terms).
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Your character is at full HP.

My character is fine. Guys I don't see what can go wrong.
Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.

The sword slashes her on the side, almost knocking her over if she didn't hop back and let the swing carry through without her.
Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.

She hastily drinks a potion while holding her bleeding side.
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

The great axe comes down hard on her shoulder, bringing her down to one knee and splattering her own blood across her face. She grabs the axe and pushes it away from her shoulder while stumbling back up.
The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.

Cleric uses divine power to seal the wounds shut... mostly? Good enough!



Although HP as meat sounds a hint silly, it is pretty accurate to how I view things. I focus on blood and the character's poise, not going into any more detail than "meat damage." I'll still say things like "the spear hits you square in the gut, practically pinning you against the wall, as you vomit from the blow," and, "you hit the ground, staining a large area with your blood, then rag-doll roll a few times before skidding to a stop."

Sounds damaging and gritty, but really it's quite unspecific. Did the spear impale you all the way through, or just give you an improper heimlich maneuver through your armor? How much blood is involved in the "splattered across your face" description? Use blood and poise, it's a nice way to describe things without really forcing an HP style too much.
Full HP is when the number written down next to "Current HP" equals the number written down next to "Total HP".
Thanks for the responses, everyone!

Frothsof, would you be willing to write out how a character vs. A mindflayer might be described? How would the psionic attacks be described at your table?

Q Mark? /slow clap
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls

For me, full hp means being fully refreshed, focused, and ready to face a threat. A character doesn't take a "serious wound" until they're actually past 0 hitpoints, and instead get fatigued and flustered with each "successful" attack against them.



This.
Your character is at full HP.


He is uninjured.

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.


Well, in this case I suppose you already gave the narrative description there. Now what type of wound (bleeding, concussion, etc) would depend on the nature of what caused damage, a sword, a hammer, falling, fire...

Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.


As you drink the potion, you suddenly feel relief from pain, the magic in it closes the cuts you've suffered, the bleeding (if any) stops, bruises go from a red/purple to a healthy skin coloration.

Assuming full HP: You know look perfectly healthy, except maybe from the dried blood and ripped clothes on you. Depending on the nature and severity of the wounds you suffered, you may now have a few permanent scars.

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious. The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP. ...is your character injured? What does your character look like?


Same as the above case with the potion.


Your character is at full HP.
Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.
Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.
Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.
The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP. ...is your character injured?
What does your character look like?
Please be as narrative/roleplaying oriented as possible. I really appreciate any positive participation in this experiment.

This is why I really like the mechanic of healing surges or hit dice: it allows for characters to stay hurt over time while still being at full HP.  This is because, to me, HP represents far more than just physical injury.  They are also: stamina, luck, skill, magical defenses (which includes psionic, divine, primal, etc), and more.

So, here is the story:

Ivan, a human fighter, is battling an orc.  The orc strikes at Ivan, and the unlucky fighter only barely manages to block to swing, taking a nasty gash on his leg.  (Max HP = 12, attack did 10 damage).  Ivan retreats and drinks a healing potion; the magic of the potion closes his wound and reinvigorates him.  (Healed for 8, back to 10 HP).  Unfortunately, the orc charges back in and slashes at Ivan's head; only his dwarven-made helmet saves him from a nasty death.  Even so, he is almost knocked out by the force of the blow.  (9 damage, down to 1 HP).  Ivan shakes his head to clear his vision, wiping the blood from his eyes with the back of his hand.  Luckily, Wilhelm (the party cleric) uses a healing spell and Ivan is back in the fight!  (healed for 12, back to Full HP of 12).

After the fight, Wilhelm bandages Ivan's leg and head.  While the potion and healing spell closed the wounds, Ivan will still need time to fully recover.  They search the orcs and then move on...

This is why I prefer most (if not all) healing to rely on surges.  You can't just get magically healed after getting stabbed and suddenly be back to normal.  It takes something out of you.

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.


Well, in this case I suppose you already gave the narrative description there.




Good point you chose a serious wound ... the game doesnt really say your character took a serious wound it simply says you lost X hp, from an attack.The game also doesnt and never has really reflected a serious wound or the normal impairments one might associate with a serious wound
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Your character is at full HP.
-Character is 'fighting fit'.

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.
-In my games, 50% HP is "wounded". That means at that point they have one or more visible wounds. 4th edition did the best to actually have game mechanics related to this. (Not a 4th edition lover, but that is one of the things I liked about it.) Before they drop to half health, the HP loss is attributed to minor bruises, fatigue, etc.

Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.
-The potion magically heals the wound, mostly. Character has no open wounds and feels better.

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.
-Assuming he's hit while not at "max' hps, it's assumed he's easier to wound (go below 50%) because of fatigue. When I as a GM describe the actions and attacks, I talk about minor hits and slams until they reach below 50%, then blood is being spilled. In game terms, I only get into mechanical wounds (giving them disadvantage) where story appropriate. If i feel it would be dramatic for the character who is hit to 10% of his health to have a broken leg, then I just tell him he is slowed and has disadvantage of stuff relating to mobility. I don't overdo it, it's like a fine spice. Sprinkle it here and there, don't dump it on the game or you'll get pissed off players.

The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.
-Magic heals you fully, no sign of injury and you are again fighting fit. Yay magic!

I'm very much in the realm of HP as an abstraction made up of physical health, fatigue, fighting fitness, etc.  (For things like the Fighter's second wind, I would prefer the HP to be temporary HP that goes away as the fighter collapses after his big surge of heroism and succumbs to his real wounds. That sort of second wind wouldn't be a permanent healthiness thing. So I guess if the point of this thread is to meditate on inspirational healing, I would say I am only for it on a temporary fight through the pain type of deal. So not healing at all per se. More like ignoring the obvious damage for a little bit.)
Role Play Craft : Crafting Ideas, Modules, and Options for your Role Playing Game. Now with reviews!
Your character is at full HP. 
You are operating at full phisical fitness.

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.
For it be be a serious wound it would mean that you where reduced to 0 hp
Or are using a optional wound system

Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.
some of the characters fitness is restored might remove very minor cuts and bruises

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.
wel if 0 hp is not reached he might look a bit bruised and faitigued at this point.

The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP. ...is your character injured? 
The magic would heal the wound that reduced the character uner 0 Hp, and from that point on it is pretty much the same as the potion.
You guys are right. "Serious wound" introduces bias through the wording. It should be more like "serious loss of HP" or something like that.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls


I know that at least one 4e-style retroclone is removing healing surges and replacing them with wounds for that very effect.



I have heard that concept elaborated on here... very interesting. Clerics are best at surgeless healing and wound removal... infact most forms of "healing" wont remove wounds (requires surges)
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I define full HP as being fully prepared for a fight, whether it's actually being completely healthy, having had a chance to catch your breath, patched whatever wounds you have, etc.

Full hits points is when the character no longer suffers from intellectual, emotional, physical, environmental, or spiritual effects. The value of hit points is a gauge to full recovery, or ultimate demise. Any damage or healing is an abstraction to move the hit point bar, but you can always state exceptions when you want to further define the type of damage or healing.

Given that there is not enough information in your questions I will assume that in this set of answers you are talking about a human warrior. low level and early in the day. I made up a story as to why he has magical treasure and assumed the cleric was part of the group.

Your character is at full HP.

I stand at full height. move with swift assured motions. I am full of vigor and ready for action. I gaze around with a clear steady and professional gaze.  I unflinchingly square off against the enemy ready to spill his blood if the need arises.
  
Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.

The enemys blade sweeps past my guard and cleaves into my side  blood fountians from the gash as he withdraws his sword. I shudder in pain and a moan escapes my controll. I know I can not weather another blow like that. My armor is horribly in need of repair where he has penetrated it and blood trickles out in a steady drip. That one will leave me a reminder for later to watch my guard.

Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP. 

After the enemy falls I drain one of those mystical elixers that we found in the cave with the goblins. There is a rush of cold as the magic takes effect and the wound closes. the blood strops it steady drip and the onlything left is a nice deep purple bruise that will last for days and a scar to help me remeamber to not let my guard down just like I thought.  

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.

Sneaky goblin caught me unaware hit me from behind with a dagger in the back. I can feel that he has hit something important back there. If I survive I will be laid up for months without some serious power from a devine source. The world seems to get dark and I stagger I sway on my feet and turn. Crap thats alot of blood Im not so sure he didn't just kill me.

The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP.

Looks like that elf god took pity on my sorry human ass. I feel fresh and new. Still a little winded from all the fighting but I am more solid than any nearly dead man has any reason to be. Guess I will have to help that elf out with a little coin for his church that elf god did right by me and I hate owing some one. Well the wounds are gone so is that little back stabbing kreep. crap my armor is jacked up ill need to spend a few minutes getting it back in shape. now where did I drop my axe and shield?
DMG pg 263 "No matter what a rule's source, a rule serves you, not the other way around."
Hey folks, please don't let this thing fall into attacking other points of view. I think I understand another perspectiev, but I want to verify. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, here. If somebody says something you think is incredibly dumb or inaccurate, please don't point it out. Just post what HP is like at your table. Now then... Please describe the following situations:

Your character is at full HP.



Your character is fully healed. 

Your character takes a serious wound, but is still alive.



Your character is wounded. 

Your character drinks a potion, and is at mostly full HP.



Your character has partially healed wounds. 

Your character is hit again, almost going unconscious.



Your character now has several wounds.

 
The party cleric spends a few precious spells and you're back at full HP. ...is your character injured?



No,  he is fully healed.  HP is lost when the character takes damage,  the Cleric cast "Cure Wounds" and now the character has full hit points.  The only logical conclusion is that his wounds are fully healed,  that is what the description of events posited here state.  There's no other possible outcome,  because any other possible outcome causes logical contradictions.  



The enemys blade sweeps past my guard and cleaves into my side  blood fountians from the gash as he withdraws his sword. I shudder in pain and a moan escapes my controll. I know I can not weather another blow like that. My armor is horribly in need of repair where he has penetrated it and blood trickles out in a steady drip. That one will leave me a reminder for later to watch my guard.



to me this kind of thing only happens if you are reduced to 0 HP and are bleeding to death.
So when in your mind does somthing qualify as being wounded ? 

The enemy’s [attack] gets past my [defenses] and damages my [intellect, emotion, body, spirit, etc.]. I shudder in pain and a moan. I know I cannot weather another [attack] like that. My [armor or other defense is inadequate to hold it off forever] and I suffer [intellectual, emotional, physical, spiritual, etc. damage]. That one will always remind me that just like a weapon or armor that must be sharpened or repaired, that I must be strong in body, mind and spirit.

Basicaly you can have all of that once your hit points start going down, in any combination, until the character relents and dies. 


This is why I prefer most (if not all) healing to rely on surges.  You can't just get magically healed after getting stabbed and suddenly be back to normal.  It takes something out of you.



Other than your beliefs about the effect of magic on the body I can go along with most of the rest of your views on healing.  I just see magic as being more capable than you.  It's just a viewpoint though and yours is as valid as anyones.  It's magic right?  To me magic knits wounds like cellular nanites.  To you magic accelerates natural healing.

Maybe one issue I'd have with the accelerated healing approach is that if an attack broke your arm, no amount of healing would set the broken bone.  I guess another way of thinking of my version of magical healing would be wolverine like recovery.  The only difference would be that death stops this recovery. 

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.



The enemys blade sweeps past my guard and cleaves into my side  blood fountians from the gash as he withdraws his sword. I shudder in pain and a moan escapes my controll. I know I can not weather another blow like that. My armor is horribly in need of repair where he has penetrated it and blood trickles out in a steady drip. That one will leave me a reminder for later to watch my guard.



to me this kind of thing only happens if you are reduced to 0 HP and are bleeding to death.
So when in your mind does somthing qualify as being wounded ? 


When I did play D&D, I considered my PC wounded as soon as he lost a hit.
But I no longer play D&D. I prefer RoleMaster... you definitely know your PC is wounded in that game!
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley "The straw in your man is amazing."- Maxperson Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool Resident Hater Mini Hate Machine
 

Maybe one issue I'd have with the accelerated healing approach is that if an attack broke your arm



Wait now you are unimpaired inspite of broken arm caliber injury... your ideas make the whole concept of hit points being wounds even more of a joke. I seriously thought you were more moderate than that.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 


This is why I prefer most (if not all) healing to rely on surges.  You can't just get magically healed after getting stabbed and suddenly be back to normal.  It takes something out of you.



Other than your beliefs about the effect of magic on the body I can go along with most of the rest of your views on healing.  I just see magic as being more capable than you.  It's just a viewpoint though and yours is as valid as anyones.  It's magic right?  To me magic knits wounds like cellular nanites.  To you magic accelerates natural healing.

Maybe one issue I'd have with the accelerated healing approach is that if an attack broke your arm, no amount of healing would set the broken bone.  I guess another way of thinking of my version of magical healing would be wolverine like recovery.  The only difference would be that death stops this recovery. 



In DnD that would only be the case if you use special optional rules like the ones in the ADnD 2nd combat and tactics book.
having a broken arm have you so much penealties that you where basicly out of the combat.

And it would take a long time to heal unless you had a caster that could the Heal or regenerate spell.
 In case of multipe fractures it required one casting of the heal spell for each fracture.
 

Maybe one issue I'd have with the accelerated healing approach is that if an attack broke your arm

 

Wait now you are unimpaired inspite of broken arm caliber injury... your ideas make the whole concept of hit points being wounds even more of a joke. I seriously thought you were more moderate than that.




Cure Light Wounds = cures 1d8 HIT POINTS of...DAMAGE
Cure Minor Wounds  = cures 1 HIT POINT...of....wait for it.....wait for it.....DAMAGE

Cure Light Wouuuuuuuuuuunnddss..


I had a friend who was so stubborn he went to work (a highly physical job, too) with 3 broken ribs and a sprained ankle. And we're supposed to listen to D&D fans who think it's impossible for super tough HEROES to keep on going despite actual physical injuries. And then they claim like they want cinematics to be supported in Next. It always was supported, it's called using your fricken IMAGINATIONS!!! Maybe, just maaaaaybe, if your character has 1 hit point, perhaps a little, I don't know, ROLE PLAYING is in order? Like, act like you would if you were injured. Would you keep on fighting? My friend would, for sure. Would I ? No. Would most reasonable people? Probably not. That's up to you. Just because the rules by default don't specify exactly what physical effects you get from each hit point of damage, doesn't mean you can't ROLE PLAY BEING INJURED. You know, because D&D is a ROLE PLAYING GAME??? Like, my fighter is injured, how would he act in this situation? Imagine that, a game that doesn't force you to roleplay in one way or another. You could be John McClain, or you could be Terminator at 1HP, crawling on the floor but never giving up, it doesn't stop until you are dead. Up to you. You can see no clearer example of the lack of imagination of grid-based meta-gamey thinking than the idea that you can't imagine hit points as wounds despite the game CLEARLY calling them such in virtually EVERY PAGE OF THE BOOK.

Hit Point loss represents the narrative result of WOUNDS. They are the result of DAMAGE from HITS and reversing them is done via CURE WOUNDS SPELLS. 




 

Maybe one issue I'd have with the accelerated healing approach is that if an attack broke your arm

 

Wait now you are unimpaired inspite of broken arm caliber injury... your ideas make the whole concept of hit points being wounds even more of a joke. I seriously thought you were more moderate than that.




Cure Light Wounds = cures 1d8 HIT POINTS of...DAMAGE
Cure Minor Wounds  = cures 1 HIT POINT...of....wait for it.....wait for it.....DAMAGE

Cure Light Wouuuuuuuuuuunnddss..


I had a friend who was so stubborn he went to work (a highly physical job, too) with 3 broken ribs and a sprained ankle. And we're supposed to listen to D&D fans who think it's impossible for super tough HEROES to keep on going despite actual physical injuries. And then they claim like they want cinematics to be supported in Next. It always was supported, it's called using your fricken IMAGINATIONS!!!

My god, it's like the pool is there, but there is no water inside.

Em, arguing with some people on this message board feels like trying to have an intelligent discussion with this guy:




yes there might be some wounding involved in hitpoint loss.
but no wounds that would inpede you from functioning at 100% of your ability.

so no things like cuts where you could bleed to death or things like broken bones.
For people whu did like those kind of injuries they had special optional rules in Dragon Magazine and in books like the ADnD 2nd combat and tactics book. 
 


In DnD that would only be the case if you use special optional rules like the ones in the ADnD 2nd combat and tactics book.
having a broken arm have you so much penealties that you where basicly out of the combat.



I just used an extreme example to make a point.  All I'm saying is that accelerated healing really can't explain all magical healing.  Magic healing does more than just accelerate natural healing and thats the point.

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

I'd like it folks could keep this on topic. If somebody says something you think is incredibly dumb or inaccurate, please don't point it out. Just post what HP is like at your table.

I do appreciate that Emerikol tried to understand another perspective on healing. I don't think he was saying HP loss is necessarily something as specific as breaking an arm. I could be wrong, but I think his intent was to gather clarity on a different perspective not offer an explicit counterexample.

Uchawi, that madlib-style description is pretty handy.

Jessica, if you're going to post in this thread, could you at least be on topic? You have acclaimed roleplaying skills and cite contempt for others who do not apparently role-play. Would you mind playing along w/ this thread and describing loss of HP/recovery?

Edwin, can you describe more of those injury/wound mechanics of old? They sound interesting.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
Discussing what is magic, is worse the discussing what is hit points. It is equally subjective and varies by a wide margin.
Sign In to post comments