I wouldn't hate Next so much if it was called something other than D&D

I know this sort of sentiment was thrown at 4E up and down edition war style back in the day, but hear me out.

What I've seen of Next isn't so bad as a 2.5E style game, especially some of the middle playtest packets as I didn't really care for the first packet and the last two packets have been the worst of the bunch by far. After reading 13th Age and thinking about that game, I realize both games hold a similar place to me. 13th age is a fusion of 1E, 3E, and 4E, and while I find the game interesting and well designed I can't see it replacing 4E as my D&D. What I do think is that 13th Age will probably be my game of choice going forward for playing 3E style D&D, as it does a good job of capturing what I enjoyed about 3E without any of the flaws that caused me to hate 3E in the end. I had some fun playing 3E, and while I have no desire to play real 3E or Pathfinder again its nice to have an alternate game to go back to for the times I'm in the mood. I have similar feelings about AD&D at this point. I ran a campaign of 2E for a couple of months two years ago, and while we enjoyed ourselves there are a lot of things I find I really want out of an RPG that neither edition of AD&D really deliver, like deep and robust character customization or support for a heavy combat action based game without burying the game in houserules or doing something lame like infinite potions or 3E-style wands of CLW. To be honest, despite my criticisms of Next its a better system for going back to AD&D in my eyes than AD&D itself, which just has too many missing pieces and oddities. Its not something I'd play as my primary game, but I can't think of a better AD&D style change of pace.


None of that changes my opinion on the edition itself overall, as while it might not be a bad thing in isolation, it isn't what I want out of the D&D I play every week or of the D&D I'd like to see carrying the flag for the brand going forward. If it were a 3rd party game like 13th Age I might even be praising it, but as the sole D&D edition being published going forward not so much.
...whatever
So tired of your declaring how much more you like some other game. It's like someone standing outside his ex girlfriend's apartment, yelling loudly through the window about how much happier he's going to be with someone else, and how sorry his ex will be someday. It's embarrassing.

Move. The heck. On.
So tired of your declaring how much more you like some other game. It's like someone standing outside his ex girlfriend's apartment, yelling loudly through the window about how much happier he's going to be with someone else, and how sorry his ex will be someday. It's embarrassing. Move. The heck. On.



Maybe I'm naive, but I still have this hope that Next will change into something worthwhile and I would like to contribute to that as long as I'm able.
...whatever
And you think ANOTHER hate thread is doing that?
No offense man, but if I were on the dev team I would not be paying a lot of attention to your preferences at this point. 5e is clearly so far away from what you want that you're not going to like anything short of a total overhaul of Next (which in turn would piss off all the people who DO like Next). So, I mean, keep fighting the good fight and all, because I share a lot of your specific criticisms and concerns (though not as vociferously). Maybe it will make Next a more appealing game to some more flexible 4e fans. But I don't think they care much about making you, specifically, hate the game less.
That's funny, I thought the exact same thing about 4e in 2008 just after my initial read through the Player's Handbook. Unfortunately, my opinion didn't change much when I stopped playing by 2010.
So tired of your declaring how much more you like some other game. It's like someone standing outside his ex girlfriend's apartment, yelling loudly through the window about how much happier he's going to be with someone else, and how sorry his ex will be someday. It's embarrassing. Move. The heck. On.


It's like a broken record isn't it?

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of splitting up the party, sticking appendages in the mouth of a leering green devil face, accepting a dinner invitation from bugbears, storming the feast hall of a hill giant steading, angering a dragon of any variety, or saying yes when the DM asks, “Are you really sure?”

I know you are intentionally drawing a parallel between things said about 4e and what you are saying about 5e.

Based on what I consider the core conceits of D&D, I think 5e is a million times closer than 4e.  You have one edition that was written a particular way that you loved but that game was a sharp deviation from it's predecessors and likely where 5e is returning.  Just embrace the fact that you really aren't a D&D fan.  You are a fan of a single edition of D&D which stands apart from the other editions more than all the others do.  Embrace that fact.   I believe someone will target your playstyle with a non-D&D game.  It will likely strike home even better than 13th Age does though I think 13th Age is very 4e like in it's narrative premises.  It's just less tactical.  I hope someone does exactly that and makes you happy.

I think though that D&D should adhere to it's traditions.  Why?  For one those traditions are very popular.  D&D ruled the world undisputed with those games.  I think it will return to that position of preeminance but even if it doesn't it is obviously clear that the game displacing it is the very type of game I'm talking about.  So either way the D&D style game has a lot of market appeal.    

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

No offense man, but if I were on the dev team I would not be paying a lot of attention to your preferences at this point. 5e is clearly so far away from what you want that you're not going to like anything short of a total overhaul of Next (which in turn would piss off all the people who DO like Next). So, I mean, keep fighting the good fight and all, because I share a lot of your specific criticisms and concerns (though not as vociferously). Maybe it will make Next a more appealing game to some more flexible 4e fans. But I don't think they care much about making you, specifically, hate the game less.



I think you have an interesting point there, and one that deserves its own thread, specifically the part I bolded. They have done so much with this playtest that they have created a small but dedicated 5E fanbase in advance, one that wants the game described in L&L articles and seen in the playtest packets. Its kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. They can't turn back on what they've done or make any changes to it without displeasing a significant amount of people. I don't think it would be impossible to appease me through optional modules, but those optional modules would need to be supported by some major changes to the game's base skeleton(making it less laser focused on AD&D "feel" and more edition-neutral and flexible) a to do as good a job in my eyes as purpose built games like 4E and 13th age. If you are right, and I think you might be, there really isn't any way to fix 5E without killing it. My response to that would be that 5E is shaping up to be too narrow a game to serve the fragmented D&D community as a whole, and that WotC really needs to seriously look at producing multiple lines for different D&D tastes.

 
...whatever
Just embrace the fact that you really aren't a D&D fan.   



I'd love to hear more responses without edition war crap like this
...whatever
Howdy folks,

This thread has gone into edition war territory and will be closed.  As with prior editions, labeling D&D Next as "Not D&D" can be considered edition warring.

Thanks.  

All around helpful simian

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