To WotC - Cost of DDI without Dragon and Dungeon

54 posts / 0 new
Last post

I just want to say that my posts are not tring to say that people should not get upset about what is happening with DDI. It is totaly understandable that people will not be happy about it. I am willing to bet the people who decided to go this course talked about the blowback that would result. Telling them you are unhappy with a decision is a good thing. Overreacting is not a good thing.

 

Terminating your subscription is a real way to express your dislike of the decision. I canceled my subscription after they took the PDFs off the market. You do have to be careful though. If enough people cancel their subscription, they may cancel the service.

 

They may come out with DnD Next towards the end of next year and want to focus on it in the Dungeon and Dragons magazines. They won't want to tie it into a 4th edition only subscription. Now they might come out with some DnD Next tools and have them in the same subscription as the 4th edition tools. We will have to just wait to find out.

Torg_Smith wrote:
You do have to be careful though. If enough people cancel their subscription, they may cancel the service.

 

My understanding is they've all but already done that.

 

The periodicals end after next month, and with them, any updates to the tools. The tools will still exist, obviously, but no new content will be released in any shape or form for the subscription fee. 

 

I doubt Wizards will say, "Oh, people are cancelling for all the work we're not doing? Let's shut the whole thing down, and throw away potential dollars." They're getting paid for doing nothing after December, there'd be no reason to shut Insider down in the slightest.

wetsail wrote:
I doubt Wizards will say, "Oh, people are cancelling for all the work we're not doing? Let's shut the whole thing down, and throw away potential dollars." They're getting paid for doing nothing after December, there'd be no reason to shut Insider down in the slightest.

 

There's a 3rd party company that maintains the tools and the contract is presumably based on some very high number of users. As a simple example, if I expect to have 100000 people paying $7/month, I likely don't mind signing a contract saying, "Yes, have $100000 a month to do everything." If that number suddenly drops to 10000, there's a problem.

 

And to show an example of just such a problem with WotC and badly worded contracts, notice the forums look a little different than they used to look?

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
There's a 3rd party company that maintains the tools and the contract is presumably based on some very high number of users. As a simple example, if I expect to have 100000 people paying $7/month, I likely don't mind signing a contract saying, "Yes, have $100000 a month to do everything." If that number suddenly drops to 10000, there's a problem.

 

While I doubt Wizards would ever see 100,000 people subscribe to Insider, I recognize that's not the point you're making. I'd point out, though, that if Wizards isn't updating the tools any longer, they have no need to pay for an outside service to do it for them. Rather, they'd cut the service, take their losses in subscribers, and keep 100% of what they receive from the subscribers that remain, who would be using the now non-updating tools that Wizards still owns.

 

In fact, now that I think about it, that's probably exactly what they're planning on doing.

 

Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
And to show an example of just such a problem with WotC and badly worded contracts, notice the forums look a little different than they used to look?

 

Yeah. I actually think they look a bit nicer, being honest.

 

The website's comment system, on the other hand - that's a subject fit for a string of expletives that'd undoubtedly be removed by the forum police.

Running a system that is no longer being added to is not free. They use at least one server and probably more as it is not like your computer at home. A lot of time disks are kept in SANs and your routers have to keep the data flowing. You have your authentication servers. The list goes on. Maintenance of those servers can get costly. You lose a drive or a router. Your authentication server crashes. You have to apply patches for the OS. These take people. People take money.

 

The servers are not the only cost. You have to pay for the badwidth you are using on the internet. They are not paying $50 month for their Internet access. Support adds cost. Somebody botched the purchase and needs help. You all of a sudden cant connect to the service. When you try to run one of the tools, you get an error. These support people cost money.

 

Discontinueing the magazines is probably their greatest cost savings. They have not been putting out a bunch of books for a while. I bet their reveneus are down quite a bit on the RPG side of things. I would not be surprised if Magic is floating the RPG side of things while they work on 5th edition.

hunterian7 wrote:
It would be nice to know if the prior, downloadable issues of Dragon and Dungeon are 'going dark'. I've downloaded and saved all my copies of Dungeon and Dragon and backed them up too.
I don't trust WotC right now concerning DDI

 

It would be nice if there would be some kind of bulk download option after the last digital editions come out.

Well, if they need money, and we all agree this is a company with mediocre PR at best, they could put the current, updated, builder on sale for download. Heck, they can even put a $40 price tag on it. We'd pay it, save it to our hard drives, install and continue playing our 4e campaigns.

 

Because Kelemvor knows I won't be dropping a single dollar on 5e. My players won't be spending a single cent on 5e. And this, WotC, is because of your filthy PR. You only care about money? Good. Put the full builder/compendium/adventure tools on sale.

I'm someone who paid my 12 year subscription. I didn't expect to loss both digital magazines half-way through the subscription. I'm not at all happy with this arrangement and consider it unethical and unlawful. I cannot understand why anyone would consider this acceptable business practice.

 

Do I expect a refund? Yes. Will I get it, no idea, but I don't think I will.

 

Would I be happy with digital content from a different version of D&D, maybe. Will it happen, not likely.

 

Will I pay for digital content from WotC in the future? Very unlikely.

 

OCAMPO wrote:

Well, if they need money, and we all agree this is a company with mediocre PR at best, they could put the current, updated, builder on sale for download. Heck, they can even put a $40 price tag on it. We'd pay it, save it to our hard drives, install and continue playing our 4e campaigns.

 

Because Kelemvor knows I won't be dropping a single dollar on 5e. My players won't be spending a single cent on 5e. And this, WotC, is because of your filthy PR. You only care about money? Good. Put the full builder/compendium/adventure tools on sale.

Guess what. That's what i did when they did the 3e/4e switch over, which was handled even worse. I still have the 3e character builder sitting on my hard drive with all the datasets. currently playing Star Wars Saga Edition though, which is another discontinued WotC product.

 

I think WotC learned one thing from the 3e character builder: Don't offer it as downloadable content. Online content serviced by yourself can be much more effectively killed when you want to force people to a new edition.

Star Wars Saga Edition is by far the best RPG that Wizards of the Coast has ever published.

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

Prom wrote:

I'm someone who paid my 12 year subscription. I didn't expect to loss both digital magazines half-way through the subscription. I'm not at all happy with this arrangement and consider it unethical and unlawful. I cannot understand why anyone would consider this acceptable business practice.

 

Do I expect a refund? Yes. Will I get it, no idea, but I don't think I will.

 

Would I be happy with digital content from a different version of D&D, maybe. Will it happen, not likely.

 

Will I pay for digital content from WotC in the future? Very unlikely.

 

 

You should contact support. Be polite when you do. Explain to them you are unhappy with the desision to cancel the magazines and that you would like to cancel the future months and get a prorated refund. Now they may not be required to, but I suspect they will. You will not have access to the tools if you cancel your subscription so you will want to weigh that in your desision. If you only use the subscription for the magzines, then it might be worthwhile asking.

RogerWilco wrote:

 

OCAMPO wrote:

Well, if they need money, and we all agree this is a company with mediocre PR at best, they could put the current, updated, builder on sale for download. Heck, they can even put a $40 price tag on it. We'd pay it, save it to our hard drives, install and continue playing our 4e campaigns.

 

Because Kelemvor knows I won't be dropping a single dollar on 5e. My players won't be spending a single cent on 5e. And this, WotC, is because of your filthy PR. You only care about money? Good. Put the full builder/compendium/adventure tools on sale.

 

Guess what. That's what i did when they did the 3e/4e switch over, which was handled even worse. I still have the 3e character builder sitting on my hard drive with all the datasets. currently playing Star Wars Saga Edition though, which is another discontinued WotC product.

 

I think WotC learned one thing from the 3e character builder: Don't offer it as downloadable content. Online content serviced by yourself can be much more effectively killed when you want to force people to a new edition.

 

They are putting all their prior editions up for sale on DriveThruRPG. They are actually making the prior editions more viable. We do not know if they are comming out with new tools for the new edition. If they do, they could conceivebly add them to the current subscription service. We have no idea.

 

Edit: I do not like online only applications. Had I not canceled my subscription when they stopped selling PDFs, I would have canceled when they went to the Silverlight applications.

RogerWilco wrote:

 Online content serviced by yourself can be much more effectively killed when you want to force people to a new edition.

 

Well, I could use the old offline builder when they kill the online tools for the current edition or Hero Lab. Sure, both cannot create "essentials" characters (herolab mess all the stats), but at least there is a solution.

Since my players don't care enough to read the books, I create and level up their characters for them, which means that I must spend hours doing that with the books every time- not that fun for me in the long run. Is it enough for me though, to make me change edition?  I will most surely miss  the ability to search for a 11th level common magic item in all my books with a single click or a 7th level lurker creature with the "demon" keyword. 

But, on the other hand

  • a) I like the 4th,
  • b) I want "next" to come out as a complete series of books and then decide if it is worth it and
  • c) I have about 30 books of the current edition and I have used - I don't know, maybe 10% from them.

They cannot "force" me to a new edition, unless I choose to do so. I will painstakingly create characters with pencil and paper forever, unless they come out with a spectacular product that I wont be able to resist. Otherwise, it doesn't matter how I am going to design my stories, or how much time I am going to spend searching in my books. I have a game that I love and will continue using it till the 11th edition comes out... (with -let's say- 6 years as an average for each edition I will be 79 years old by then, a good time to quit I think...)

PS: I would buy a new set of downloadable, offline tools without second thought. I would even buy the content of each of my books separately if I had to. But even without them, I can still have fun playing my favourite edition... 

 

 

English is not my native language, so I ask for your patience...

Torg_Smith wrote:

 

Prom wrote:

I'm someone who paid my 12 year subscription. I didn't expect to loss both digital magazines half-way through the subscription. I'm not at all happy with this arrangement and consider it unethical and unlawful. I cannot understand why anyone would consider this acceptable business practice.

 

Do I expect a refund? Yes. Will I get it, no idea, but I don't think I will.

 

Would I be happy with digital content from a different version of D&D, maybe. Will it happen, not likely.

 

Will I pay for digital content from WotC in the future? Very unlikely.

 

 

 

You should contact support. Be polite when you do. Explain to them you are unhappy with the desision to cancel the magazines and that you would like to cancel the future months and get a prorated refund. Now they may not be required to, but I suspect they will. You will not have access to the tools if you cancel your subscription so you will want to weigh that in your desision. If you only use the subscription for the magzines, then it might be worthwhile asking.

 

This was my plan. I suspect that the online tools will be pulled in a few months anyway. Best to walk away now.

Sign In to post comments